Have any of you got a vision for the League of Ireland? [Archive] - Page 2

northwestexile

01/09/2009, 5:18 AM

Stadia with propper terracing ala Germany for those fans who want to stand and generate atmos. BYOB. Family sections as far away from these areas as possible.

End stupid fines that clubs can't afford, turn a blind eye to smokes and flares.

Two good points in my opinion. Why are clubs like Finn Harps building all seater stadiums? Why this big move to all seater stadia? It cant be for European games as there are only about 3 home games a year for clubs that do well and there really isnt going to be a problem of crowd trouble. They manage it in Germany pretty well. IMO in the LOI it should be all terraces behind the goals. It makes for a better atmosphere.
And fines for clubs whos fans let off flares and smoke is a joke. If its done by responsible people in a controlled manner it can be great. We are not idiots for god sake.

BohsPartisan

01/09/2009, 12:27 PM

Two good points in my opinion. Why are clubs like Finn Harps building all seater stadiums? Why this big move to all seater stadia? It cant be for European games as there are only about 3 home games a year for clubs that do well and there really isnt going to be a problem of crowd trouble. They manage it in Germany pretty well. IMO in the LOI it should be all terraces behind the goals. It makes for a better atmosphere.
And fines for clubs whos fans let off flares and smoke is a joke. If its done by responsible people in a controlled manner it can be great. We are not idiots for god sake.

My feeling is that the powers that be see the "success" (superficial ad that may be for the majority of clubs) of the Premiership and are trying to emulate it. The thing is though that what they are really trying to do is provide an inferior version of something Irish people already have ready access to - sanitised corporatised sport. If we want to succeed we need to follow a different model and provide the public with a different type of product to what is on offer accross the water.

third policeman

01/09/2009, 1:34 PM

I think it's a bit too simplistic to say "look at rugby they are doing well lets change to a provincial set up" You have to remember that Irish provincial teams have been around for years and professional rugby is still a new product in world sport and as such could set up competitions that suited them. It would be a lot harder for the Celtic nations to set up a football league with UEFA FIFA FAW SFA FAI IFA all having to be in agreement and I can't really see that happening. I cant see provincial teams getting the suppoort either. If you look at the impact of Super 14 rugby on New Zealand you might not agree that it's a cure for all ills.
I do agree that radical thinking is needed but the proposal you put forward I think would face too many barriers.

You maybe right, but Rugby had some very big barriers to overcome as well. Not least the very idea of professionalism. Financial and media imperatives will force football to change and FIFA, UEFA and the domestic FA's will adapt in order to keep club soccer in existence.

On a broader note I am puzzled by some of the sentiments on this thread. It seems that some people accept that the EL is facing dire commercial threats but dont really want anything to change. There is a simple reason why you wont get 20k people attending LoI games notwithstanding the profound cultural and social changes that have taken place, and that's becuase most of the stadia cannot physically acoomodate these numbers. And what is the point of disparaging and abusing so-called "bar stoolers?" If you dont want people who are not currently LoI supporters sullying the integrity of this league then stop complaining. Surely the declining attendances, the exodus of playing talent and the failure to improve standards should all be encouraged as a means of keeping unwanted elements away!

endabob1

01/09/2009, 1:59 PM

Just wrong.
The very fact that 50 years ago LoI grounds were regularly getting 20,000 at games pays testament to the fact that your wrong.
If the LoI managed it before we can certainly do it again without buying into that franchise mickey mouse EPL you have invisiged for us all.

Here it is again as you obviously missed it the first time.

You're saying that because the LOI was able to get 20,000 (I really would like some hard evidence on this as opposed to rose-tinted anecdotal evidence) 50 years ago when life was very very different, no television, limited Radio, limited transport, no sex before marriage, less disposable income, no access to internet porn etc, etc, etc it makes it feasible today & you think that's a strong argument.

osarusan

01/09/2009, 2:27 PM

It seems that some people accept that the EL is facing dire commercial threats but dont really want anything to change.
This is not true. We want lots of things to change, but we disagree about how to best effect this change. Some people, including myself, think that an AIL will not address any of the core problems of football in this country.

There is a simple reason why you wont get 20k people attending LoI games notwithstanding the profound cultural and social changes that have taken place, and that's becuase most of the stadia cannot physically acoomodate these numbers.
The simple reason why we don't get 20,000 at games is because not enough people are interested in domestic football. The number of occasions where fans have been turned away due to attendance having reached capacity is virtually nil. And the situation would remain the same even in an AIL in my opinion.

The fact remains that even in an AIL, most of the games will be in the same grounds against the same teams as now. The fact that most clubs are tightening their belts and some are talking about part-time football seems to indicate (to me at least) that we are not going to see any great improvement in the standard of football. So what reason is there to believe that more people will go to watch (for example) Bohs versus Derry, or Cork versus St. Pats, than currently go?

People talk about increased attendances but apart from Linfield, I don't think any of the IL teams would attract any more spectators than we currently get.

Also, increased TV money is often mentioned, but who will pay to cover the AIL? Considering RTE don't want to cover the LOI, and the BBC provides little more than minimal coverage of the IL, I'm not sure that an amalgamation of the two will suddenly have channels vying to cover it.

I'd actually like to see an AIL, but I think that without some serious measures taken to force clubs to be more sensible in their approach to spending, any AIL would have the same problems that the LOI does at the moment (can't really say I know that much about the IL).

And what is the point of disparaging and abusing so-called "bar stoolers?" If you dont want people who are not currently LoI supporters sullying the integrity of this league then stop complaining.
Agreed. I've been saying this for a long time.

eelmonster

01/09/2009, 2:40 PM

(I really would like some hard evidence on this as opposed to rose-tinted anecdotal evidence)

I don't think PineappleStu's attendance thread goes back 50 years (just checked, it doesn't), Jim Murphy's History of DFC cites crowds of between 4000-8000 for league matches in Oriel during the 60s, but crowds of over 20,000 were the norm for end of season deciders, cup finals and big European games. For example, 23,000 went to see Dundalk play Zurich in the European Cup in 1963 and a crowd of 24,000 turned out to see Waterford play Rovers in Milltown in 1966. Both figures are substantiated by gate receipts.

Bluebeard

01/09/2009, 3:39 PM

As far as I know the pre 1980s records are mostly based on gate receipts - in Miltown the estimated numbers apparently often exceeded the gate. In Kilcohan, huge crowds were the norm for games with Rovers, and end of season clashes. From what I can glean from talking to fans from the era, the average numbers, while better than anything we have had in the RSC I suspect, were generally down dramatically - by half and more - for games against the more mundane opposition.

endabob1

02/09/2009, 7:18 AM

I don't think PineappleStu's attendance thread goes back 50 years (just checked, it doesn't), Jim Murphy's History of DFC cites crowds of between 4000-8000 for league matches in Oriel during the 60s, but crowds of over 20,000 were the norm for end of season deciders, cup finals and big European games. For example, 23,000 went to see Dundalk play Zurich in the European Cup in 1963 and a crowd of 24,000 turned out to see Waterford play Rovers in Milltown in 1966. Both figures are substantiated by gate receipts.

So would you describe these attendances as "regular"? I think there is a lot of misty eyed romanticism for the golden era where the locals merrily skipped along to Miltown, Dalymount, St Mels on a Sunday afternoon to watch their local heroes in action.

My point was that like it or not there are far more distractions now plus in terms of live support Rugby & GAA have undoubtedly stolen a march on domestic football but even in the golden era the games you cite (and I have no reason to doubt their accuracy) these big numbers are one off's.

There are lots of more recent examples of big crowds Derry City were pulling close to 10,000 (from memory) when they joined the league, Cobh's Cup run in the mid 80's pulled in crowds in excess of 10,000 (again from memory) but the point is these are not regular or in Derry's sustained beyond the novelty value of the new beginning (a fact Rovers would do well to keep in mind I think).

eelmonster

02/09/2009, 5:16 PM

So would you describe these attendances as "regular"?

That depends on how the word is applied. There were regularly crowds in excess of 20,000 at cup finals, European matches and so on, between the 1920s and 1970s (almost every season). You doubted that the League of Ireland attracted those numbers, I was simply offering you the 'hard evidence' sought. The quotidian weekly (ha) attendances were, in Dundalk's, case (going on Jim Murphy's figures alone) in the range of between 2000 and 8000, depending on who the club was playing and how successful a season the club were having: there was a crowd of 4000 for the first Louth derby at Oriel in the 1963; 7500 people paid in to see Rovers (they were only there for the Rovers ;) -- just to contextualise that figure, it was the 8th league game of the 63/64 season, oh, and Dundalk won). That there are greater distractions now is obvious, but Rovers have proven that if you market the product correctly and have (use of [only joking]) the facilities, more people will go to watch their local LoI team play.

L.T.F.C.

02/09/2009, 5:37 PM

my vision.
Simple. A league with consequences for fuucking up. This idea of operating over the 65% cap throughout the season but ending up under the cap at the end is pure arse.
Where if you do fuuck up, you get a rake of points taken away instead of fines. Keep the money in the clubs.
The fai told me that the referee weekly review and courses started nine years ago. How come there has been no significant improvement the past nine years - refs from outside dub.
The childer support there own teams from there own area.

ped_ped

03/09/2009, 12:53 AM

my vision.
Simple. A league with consequences for fuucking up. This idea of operating over the 65% cap throughout the season but ending up under the cap at the end is pure arse.

This.

A little leeway should be allowed for, of course (e.g. you can stray to just under 70% at times, as long as it's not for extended periods and as long as you end the season under 65%), but Bohemians should be penalised if the only way they stay under 65% is by winning the title. Such gambling only puts the club in peril. I'd rather support a mid-table Premier Division club than Title-Contenders that may not be around next season.

Where if you do fuuck up, you get a rake of points taken away instead of fines. Keep the money in the clubs.

True. I mean the answer to clubs not living within their means isn't to restrict their means even further. It's to strip them of the glory they attained by such extravagant spending.

The childer support there own teams from there own area.

Well there's three ways of doing this.

1. Media. Apart from local newspapers, which children don't read, the league isn't getting coverage. And of course, the worst part of this would be a country of Bohs/Rovers fans... the culture of glory-hunters we're breeding now will follow the leading teams if the national broadcaster is the only source of LOI they get.

2. The Parents. Again, not likely. Because the fathers to a large extent will raise their children as a Liverpool/United fan, or as a Premier League fan, and they'll end up seeing too much of it in their youth, being drawn into the glitz and glamour of it...

3. The Schools. I think this could be where the money lies. If the local side went around, during the off-season (as the new season nears) and did a skills course with the students of Primary Schools, handed out hats, scarves.. one of two jerseys in a raffle... it could stir up some interest, get the kids acquainted with the players... and (hopefully) get the classmates of the jersey-winners to be a wee bit jealous and get the parents to buy one :p

Bluebeard

03/09/2009, 6:48 AM

my vision.
Simple. A league with consequences for fuucking up...

Easy there, tiger - that's a whole lot too radical for most of our clubs. I'd imagine if you spoke to many high ranking club officials, you would get a half hour of rhetoric, which when translated converts to "Do you expect turkeys to vote for Christmas.

If it was in the US, people would be screaming that this is Communism.

Bring on the Communist Revolution, I say.

peadar1987

03/09/2009, 11:23 AM

3. The Schools. I think this could be where the money lies. If the local side went around, during the off-season (as the new season nears) and did a skills course with the students of Primary Schools, handed out hats, scarves.. one of two jerseys in a raffle... it could stir up some interest, get the kids acquainted with the players... and (hopefully) get the classmates of the jersey-winners to be a wee bit jealous and get the parents to buy one :p

This is a great idea. I'm ashamed to say that in my misguided younger days, I dabbled with supporting Pat's, after a few of their players came to a football camp I was at. As far as I was concerned, they were all Roberto Baggio. Some of the lads from that year still have a soft spot for them, despite absolutely no follow-up from the club.

oriel

03/09/2009, 12:41 PM

Facilities have got to improve, increased seating for all fans, covered too, proper catering and other facilities. Better stewarding, all of this would encourage a lot of families to games, a lot of clubs in Lge 2 (old div 4) in UK are pitching for the family scene, and they have made great inroads here, by proper marketting and remember they are right next door to Eng Prem lge teams. If they can do it, why cant we ?

I think we are playing far too many games too, 18 home league games is not far off from the English sides are playing, it can be quite difficult to keep fans interested for so many matches, esp if your team drops off the pace, when you consider your avg GAA fan will attend no more 10 big games a season, we really have our work cut out to keep fans motivated to attend games.

Media too can play their part, aertel being a prime example , they had a page last night on a player I never heard of, who could be match fit this w/e, turns out he plays with WBA and is in the NI squad...........so what ?

The FAI cup final is/has been shamefully downgraded for over a decade now by our media, these are all prime examples where we have lost focus. The mornign of the game, we would be lucky to see a half page article in either the Sun Indo or Tribune.

MNS is excellent, but we need more of this.

Paul Collins on Today Fm the other am informs us that in the EIRCOM* lge, Sligo beat Bohs and so on, its the little things like these that HAVE to change before the message gets through that we are a serious league, well the fans are at least. To be fair Collins is not the worst and always plugs the lge, we just need to tidy up how its presented, they would never make a mistake with anything happening in th english lges.

* Sean Connor and Paul Doolin also made ref to this on MNS

RonnieB

03/09/2009, 1:05 PM

My vision involves closing my eyes and rocking back and forth.

Ezeikial

03/09/2009, 2:09 PM

Paul Collins on Today Fm the other am informs us that in the EIRCOM* lge.......

* Sean Connor and Paul Doolin also made ref to this on MNS

As did the PA announcer at the EIRCOM LEAGUE match between St Patricks Athletic and Dundalk UNITED in Richmond Park!

oriel

03/09/2009, 2:42 PM

Mirriam O Callaghan also had a cracker on prime time on that 15 min slaughter on Shels a few yrs back, said something like 'and now to problems within the Irish Lge'

Superb..........she didn`t give one fxxx about us.

The only exception you can make in LOI/Ir Lg mix ups is from media in the UK, who really cant be blamed for not knowing which is which.

Then again, the Irish lge itself is now renamed to 'the Carling Permiership'

I think.........even I`m confused :confused:

All these name changes !

fionnsci

03/09/2009, 3:48 PM

Then again, the Irish lge itself is now renamed to 'the Carling Permiership'

As this BBC report shows, the league's name is the 'Auto Windshield Windscreen Wiper Fluid Irish League Division One' (or the AWWFILDO).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kN15IZGeMg&feature=PlayList&p=E64EC4F593CAF88F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=6

irishultra

03/09/2009, 3:59 PM

This is a great idea. I'm ashamed to say that in my misguided younger days, I dabbled with supporting Pat's, after a few of their players came to a football camp I was at. As far as I was concerned, they were all Roberto Baggio. Some of the lads from that year still have a soft spot for them, despite absolutely no follow-up from the club.

:D This was the exact same thing with Bray Wanderers. They came to my school with the FAI Cup in 99' and the whole school was delighted.

I thought the same thing, Colm Tresson might as well have been Franco Baresi for all we knew.

ped_ped

03/09/2009, 4:42 PM

Mirriam O Callaghan also had a cracker on prime time on that 15 min slaughter on Shels a few yrs back, said something like 'and now to problems within the Irish Lge'

An all-new reason for an All Ireland League ;)

But again, do RTE have a mandate to commission Prime Time reports on the League of Ireland? Surely the cost of commission wasn't too far off actually covering a fcuking match.

jebus

03/09/2009, 5:03 PM

peadar1987

03/09/2009, 6:09 PM

I think we should just go with the flow and enjoy the last ten years of our existence before the European Super Priemer League 1, 2 and 3 wipe out all domestic support for the clubs left behind.

I predict that Europe will have roughly 60 clubs left by the year 2030

I think that's a little drastic. People in England will always support Rotherham, Plymouth and Colchester, because that's the way footballing culture generally works over there. Most of the footballing public over there would sooner feed their testicles through a mangle than support Manchester United or Chelsea in a European Super League.

Also, you'll find that the people supporting such a league will only want success. They're perfectly happy to support Liverpool now, when they're constantly in the top two or three domestically, and winning cups, but when they're mid-table in the EuPL, and failing to win half their games, watch the bandwagon screech to a halt and burst into flames as people desperately try to attach themselves to Barcelona, or Inter Milan. It makes more sense for clubs to stay big fish in relatively small ponds than risk losing the allure of constant and guaranteed success

osarusan

04/09/2009, 1:38 PM

I think that's a little drastic. People in England will always support Rotherham, Plymouth and Colchester, because that's the way footballing culture generally works over there. Most of the footballing public over there would sooner feed their testicles through a mangle than support Manchester United or Chelsea in a European Super League.
But doesn't the above quote, which paints English fans as true, die-hard fans who support their team through thick and (usually) thin disagree with the quote below, which says that the fans will drop an unsuccessful team for a successful team?

Also, you'll find that the people supporting such a league will only want success. They're perfectly happy to support Liverpool now, when they're constantly in the top two or three domestically, and winning cups, but when they're mid-table in the EuPL, and failing to win half their games, watch the bandwagon screech to a halt and burst into flames as people desperately try to attach themselves to Barcelona, or Inter Milan. It makes more sense for clubs to stay big fish in relatively small ponds than risk losing the allure of constant and guaranteed success
I know you mention the second case as happening in a European Super League of some sort, but the Premier League must currently hold the same appeal for mediocrity-weary Rotherham and Colchester fans as a Super League would hold for Liverpool or Arsenal fans?

why would one change club when the other wouldn't?

pineapple stu

04/09/2009, 2:18 PM

peadar1987

04/09/2009, 2:48 PM

But doesn't the above quote, which paints English fans as true, die-hard fans who support their team through thick and (usually) thin disagree with the quote below, which says that the fans will drop an unsuccessful team for a successful team?

I know you mention the second case as happening in a European Super League of some sort, but the Premier League must currently hold the same appeal for mediocrity-weary Rotherham and Colchester fans as a Super League would hold for Liverpool or Arsenal fans?

why would one change club when the other wouldn't?

What Stu said!

There will always be a lot of hard-core supporters who will follow their team no matter what, but the European Super League would be looking at making money from glory-hunting markets, like South-East Asia, Africa, and Ireland! Finishing mid-table isn't going to break those markets, but winning your domestic league or cup regularly is.

osarusan

04/09/2009, 4:38 PM

Because Rotherham, Colchester and Plymouth fans are "proper" fans, whereas Liverpool fans are bandwagon event junkies who derive a lot of their support from miles away from the locality.

(Obviously there's "proper" Liverpool fans too, but they're in the minority unfortunately)

There will always be a lot of hard-core supporters who will follow their team no matter what, but the European Super League would be looking at making money from glory-hunting markets, like South-East Asia, Africa, and Ireland! Finishing mid-table isn't going to break those markets, but winning your domestic league or cup regularly is.
But is it not fair to say that the reason that Liverpool (for example) have always been more successful than a club like Rotherham is because the number of "hardcore, proper" fans is greater than that of Rotherham?

pineapple stu

04/09/2009, 4:56 PM

It is. But it's also fair to say that there's a lot of barstoolers who follow Liverpool (this country, for example) who may fade away if Liverpool end up in mid-table obscurity in a superleague, which would hit the club significantly in terms of merchandise and branding sales.

osarusan

04/09/2009, 5:15 PM

It is.
So we're both right.;)

But it's also fair to say that there's a lot of barstoolers who follow Liverpool (this country, for example) who may fade away if Liverpool end up in mid-table obscurity in a superleague
We can only hope so.

fergalr

04/09/2009, 5:31 PM

peadar1987

04/09/2009, 11:38 PM

Lads, if you want a vision for the league, why not simply pay more attention to one that is already up and running. That's if a 6,000 sell-out attendance meets one of your criteria for success.
http://www.shamrockrovers.ie/news/35-news/982-tonights-match-tickets-on-sale-

Ah, but what about the thousands of season ticket holders that are counted in these figures, in spite of not actually being there? :p

(It just felt weird having a post about a Shamrock Rovers attendance without someone saying that. And you don't own your stadium. Shame on you!)

pineapple stu

05/09/2009, 10:40 AM

fergalr, that's all well and good, but you clearly won't survive until you disband and reform as a franchise run by the FAI with a generic name like Dublin City or something. Anything you currently see is merely the result of an over-active imagination. Or an improbability drive or something.

Mad Moose

05/09/2009, 11:22 AM

Its pretty much been said already but I would reiterate my own vision of how the league needs to move on. Some of it is straightforward, some of it not. Some of it should be straightforward and never will be.

From my early days my first recollection of the League of Ireland was a very tiny saturday slot on RTE 2 when they showed action from the league. In fact the ageless Mark Rutherford is my first memory back in 1988 or so. I think Rutherfords time with St Pats should tie up with that year. Hopefully. I was 8 or 9 at the time. In any case where I came from in Mayo in growing up I didn't have exposure to the league and we didn't get to go places growing up so my only football growing up was cross channel football. It wasn't until I moved to Dublin in 97 that I went to games as I just loved the game.

I guess any exposure to the game was TV driven and also things like magazines and sticker albums. I would read and study them for hours. So in a sense in trying to raise the profile of the game we need to start at the youngest age possible. We need to introduce kids to the game here and there are a number of means possible on this. Billboards and stuff wouldn't have the impact. Players going to schools on the other hand would. Kids would see these guys as heros, actual real life players they can associate with. In order to get kids interested thats the starting point. The league and its players need to be profiled, put out there as been part of the community. If you organise regular, say annual, school visits where the kids meet the players, maybe do some coaching or show a video I think it would make an impact. Again this is negated heavily by a league predominately returning part time but I guess this should be as much an FAI driven approach as it is individual clubs driven. The FAI could fund this project.

On the other hand magazines and sticker albums are a great means to get kids interested and its always worked across the water. I was chatting to a mate at football the last night here who coming from Longford was exposed only to cross channel football and he could give you every stat on football at the time based on the coverage. Its a tired argument saying we need such coverage of the league here.We all know it and the fact is it won't happen because our national broadcaster doesn't care enough about the game. The above mentioned ideas are the means to raise the league but kids see football on TV and will always be swayed by the heroic profiling of football outside this country. Without such profiling and coverage of our league we are unlikely to see any great progress.

The problem in the league currently is that most clubs are firefighting. Needing short term solutions to meet short term needs and that inhibits any ability to be progressive and to build for the long term. I've seen it at Finn Harps over the years. No more so than this season in actual fact. The club has almost run out of public in Donegal to hand the begging bowl to and that pool of available support is diminishing so rapidly at the moment it is frightening. Whether the club has a future very much remains to be seen. Despite massive strides and the hard work of some people at the club I'm not sure the club has ever been in a worse position despite visions and plans down the years. Reaching out to the public and giving something back is pipe dream stuff at Harps these days. In the shortest possible terms the emerging young talent need to see League of Ireland football as something to aspire to achieving and that comes down to encouragement and support in doing so. Finn Harps for example now boast a side made up entirely of local talent. However there is no means to hold onto the players because without funding the players cannot be contracted and developed and in moving on the club benefits from a transfer fee.

Anyhow somewhere in there you'll find my vision for the league.

Mr A

05/09/2009, 11:42 AM

Any vision that will bring real progress to the League of Ireland must involve all football in the country, not just the league. Currently the situation is a mess- the different levels don't join up and you end up with mental situations like FHFC's youth players being unable to play for the seniors or reserves. The senior game has tended to exist in isolation and has traditionally been in conflict with pretty much other sector of the game. This simply has to change.

The Genisis report contained an awful lot of crap but the best suggestion was ignored- that of dual registration whereby players can stay with their local club but also represent a senior team. This may be difficult to do under FIFA guidelines but surely some accommodation could be reached.

There is also what will be one of the biggest issues in the league in coming seasons if it is not addressed. Currently if you want to sign a player from non-senior football his club can demand around €5k for his development. That's just not realistic for most clubs- but equally the LOI must respect the lower leagues a lot more and work together for the good of football.

A more joined up football landscape would see a far better chance that the best young players would represent LOI players before crossing the water, both improving the quality here and increasing revenue to the league.

jebus

05/09/2009, 2:20 PM

What Stu said!

There will always be a lot of hard-core supporters who will follow their team no matter what, but the European Super League would be looking at making money from glory-hunting markets, like South-East Asia, Africa, and Ireland! Finishing mid-table isn't going to break those markets, but winning your domestic league or cup regularly is.

I'm more on about TV and sponsership money going away from the domestic leagues as the clubs that money men want to invest in leave for the Super Leagues, but I also post on English forums and loads of them have said the kids in their area now support Liverpool, United etc. rather than their own local team, some of their own kids even.

Also if you're a Rotherham fan the dream is obviously to get to the Premier League to play the likes of Arsenal, United, Liverpool and Chelsea, not to get to the Premier League for glamour ties against Wigan and Hull, so a lot of that allure will be gone. Plus when the most your club can ever achieve is to win the stripped down domestic leagues I think a lot of the motivation will be gone in supporters, who doesn't dream of better days for their club like?

sligofan4ever

05/09/2009, 2:22 PM

Lets ask CelticTiger what his vision of the League of Ireland is.....

peadar1987

05/09/2009, 3:16 PM

I'm more on about TV and sponsership money going away from the domestic leagues as the clubs that money men want to invest in leave for the Super Leagues, but I also post on English forums and loads of them have said the kids in their area now support Liverpool, United etc. rather than their own local team, some of their own kids even.

Also if you're a Rotherham fan the dream is obviously to get to the Premier League to play the likes of Arsenal, United, Liverpool and Chelsea, not to get to the Premier League for glamour ties against Wigan and Hull, so a lot of that allure will be gone. Plus when the most your club can ever achieve is to win the stripped down domestic leagues I think a lot of the motivation will be gone in supporters, who doesn't dream of better days for their club like?

I'm a Stoke City fan, as my dad's from Stoke, and I've been going over to the city, and watching the football team for years.

There have always been those in England who've followed the bigger clubs, especially when they're young, and don't know any different. I don't think that's changed too much. Most people in Stoke support either Stoke City, or Port Vale, and the glory hunters are just a minority.

I will always be a Stoke supporter, regardless of whether we're playing Manchester United or Cambridge United. The season I really started to take an interest in Stoke, they finished 11th in the second tier, just below Grimsby Town.

The attitude in England, by and large, has been that you support your local team, and not just pick a glamour team. "Glory hunters" are viewed with complete contempt. I can't see the creation of a European Super League changing that.

Straightstory

05/09/2009, 3:54 PM

I was chatting to a mate at football the last night here who coming from Longford was exposed only to cross channel football
Eh.... ??

Mad Moose

05/09/2009, 4:21 PM

Eh.... ??

Not really hard to understand. A guy whom I play football with here (see my location) who originally comes from Longford was telling me of his football experience growing up.It was based on cross channel soccer and the exposure cross channel football got in Ireland, i.e newspapers, TV, sticker albums etc etc. Its not that hard to work out what I meant really. :rolleyes:

irishultra

09/09/2009, 11:28 PM

From Dunphy a few years back:

Friday night in Dublin and the country�s top soccer league is in action. From Tolka Park to Dalymount, the �Stadium of Light� in Inchicore to Bray, up to seven League of Ireland matches could be played in a catchment area of well over a million people. Total attendance for the night? About 10,000. It is hard to believe that 40 years ago, the Tolkas and the Dalyers were packed to the rafters with 20,000 people at each match. The League of Ireland meant something to people then; it was something to look forward to each week, and the likes of Paddy Coad, Paddy Ambrose and Liam Tuohy were all local legends, revered as the Wayne Rooneys and Steven Gerrards are today. But society and tastes changed, and the League was never able to adjust. In contrast to the GAA, which is always been planning 20 years ahead, League of Ireland clubs were always wondering where next week�s wages would come from.
So why is it that football, the most popular sport in the world, is in terminal decline on this island? Eamon Dunphy, once a childhood fan and now one of the League�s staunchest critics, is typically forthright. �It is the kind of people that are in the League of Ireland. A breed of person that is small town, county councillor, freebie, who contributes nothing and takes as much as they can. They have always held the power in Irish soccer and still do to this day. They don�t like big ideas and they don�t like independent-minded people around because they upset the apple cart and will show up the other clubs� Nothing good is ever allowed to develop here because they won�t allow anyone to do it. They want what is best for the lowest common denominator. And that will always be the case.�
http://thedubliner.typepad.com/the_dubliner_magazine/images/2007/04/13/dunphy.jpg (http://thedubliner.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/13/dunphy.jpg) Not that long ago � in 1977 � Eamon Dunphy and John Giles had a plan to lift Irish soccer out of the doldrums and to compete with anything that England and Europe had to offer. Giles had returned to Dublin after a hugely successful career in England with Leeds United and set about making Shamrock Rovers a force again, with Dunphy as one of his coaches.
A full-time set-up with first-class facilities was to be the start of things; and as Rovers improved so too, it was hoped, would the other clubs; a rising tide would lift all boats and soon the League would be keeping its best players and competing at the highest level in Europe.
But after three years, Shamrock Rovers had only won one FAI Cup and were unable to win the League to qualify for the European Cup. Dunphy left and Giles soon followed.
�They wanted to keep it down at their level,� says Dunphy. �They didn�t want us to rise because they knew that they couldn�t rise and they didn�t want a professional club �dominating the League� as they put it. These were small-minded people with their own parochial interests. It took me six months to realise that this was happening. I had given up as a player then and I made the decision to come home. I had massive opportunities in England � huge opportunities � Fleet Street and all sorts of things, but I committed to the League of Ireland because I really thought I could change it and modernise it, blah, blah, blah� Boy was that a mistake!�
�I even gave my FAI Cup winners medal away after we won the FAI Cup in our first season. I gave it to the guy that got me my NUJ card and I didn�t think nothing of it. I have never been back to a League of Ireland ground since.�

http://www.thedubliner.ie/the_dubliner_magazine/2007/04/own_goal.html

We need someone with a VISION.

Bluebeard

10/09/2009, 9:09 AM

From Dunphy a few years back:

http://www.thedubliner.ie/the_dubliner_magazine/2007/04/own_goal.html

We need someone with a VISION.

Ah, the petty parochials, so limited in thier field of vision that they denied Giles and Dunphy the opportunity of winning everything by beating them at football. How small minded of them, did they not understand that the only way that the league could progress is if someone who had offers on Fleet St. was let win without difficulty.

peadar1987

10/09/2009, 11:53 AM

Ah, the petty parochials, so limited in thier field of vision that they denied Giles and Dunphy the opportunity of winning everything by beating them at football. How small minded of them, did they not understand that the only way that the league could progress is if someone who had offers on Fleet St. was let win without difficulty.

I particularly like the way Dunphy refers to "they", without further elaborating on it. Who were "they"?

The board at Shams? Unlikely, seeing as they would have the most to gain by Shams being a European force

The other clubs? How would they be able to affect Giles and Dunphys' ability to manage a club

The league? Maybe if the league were being obstructive of the club, it could have affected things, but you can't just say something like that without giving specific examples and evidence.

I think Dunphy is just moaning again, and can't take the fact that Shams' failure to dominate the league was down to the inadequacies of the management team.

wedwood

10/09/2009, 10:30 PM

Well...............

1. My first idea is to stop this 4 match round robbin nonsense. Copy the SPL. Teams play each other too much. I think we should be looking at a League where teams play each other twice.

How can we ensure that in the future when asked kids will say they support Bohemians, Finn Harps, Shamrock Rovers, Pat's rather than Liverpool, Celtic or Manchester United.

When I was a kid, the only football on TV was Match of the Day on BBC and the Big Match on UTV. As a result, generations of us grew up only knowing English football. I picked Liverpool, as it had the most Irish players in the English league at the time (late 1970's) and followed them for nearly 30 years.

Since Robbie Keane left Anfield, there really is no reason to follow Liverpool anymore and I've got rid of Sky in favour of a season ticket to Rovers, which is the best �200 I've spent in a long time.

I'd love to see something similar happen to the LOI, as happened to Irish Rugby, where large crowds are now attending domestic games in both the Celtic League and Heineken Cup.

The increasing TV coverage on RTE and Setanta hopefully will convert more fans to our league.

If we can get an Irish league team into the group stages of one of the European competitions then the League could really take off here.

irishultra

11/09/2009, 2:23 AM

Hi welcome to the site :D

20 more thousand of you and we could get somewhere :p

Bluebeard

11/09/2009, 6:43 AM

Never thought I'd see Bohs fan crying out for there to be more Rovers fans!

Welcome to foot.ie Wedwood :)

Enruoblehs

11/09/2009, 7:02 AM

If we can get an Irish league team into the group stages of one of the European competitions then the League could really take off here.

You surely mean League of Ireland

ped_ped

11/09/2009, 10:10 AM

You surely mean League of Ireland

Small 'l' in league, so no. He means a league team from Ireland ;)

thischarmingman

11/09/2009, 11:34 AM

When I was a kid, the only football on TV was Match of the Day on BBC and the Big Match on UTV. As a result, generations of us grew up only knowing English football. I picked Liverpool, as it had the most Irish players in the English league at the time (late 1970's) and followed them for nearly 30 years.

Since Robbie Keane left Anfield, there really is no reason to follow Liverpool anymore and I've got rid of Sky in favour of a season ticket to Rovers, which is the best €200 I've spent in a long time.

http://walkerma.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/mr-burns.gif

rerun

11/09/2009, 12:09 PM

This.

A little leeway should be allowed for, of course (e.g. you can stray to just under 70% at times, as long as it's not for extended periods and as long as you end the season under 65%), but Bohemians should be penalised if the only way they stay under 65% is by winning the title. Such gambling only puts the club in peril. I'd rather support a mid-table Premier Division club than Title-Contenders that may not be around next season.

Should have to stay under 1/12th of 65% of previous years revenue p/m (and are audited monthly as such), meaning clubs who win the league would not be able to try to dominate just because they won, you'd have to win for a second year in a row to be able to use the profits from winning the league to have a major impact.

People will whine that it effects a clubs performance in Europe. Maybe so, but it would stop clubs gambling on what their income WILL be based on how they get on.