Worst Irish player ever!

[RivaldoBabb]

Anyone naming Kernaghan as the worst Irish international ever seriously doesn't have a clue

Why is that, he was a complete donkey?

And if you dont agree well thats your opinion.

[Hibs4Ever]

Why is that, he was a complete donkey?




So you think Lapira was a better player for us than Kernaghan?

[endabob1]

Realistically the likes of Kernaghan, Connolly, McGoldrick, Morris, Kilbane etc... were all decent championship standard players who happened to fill a void when needed, I haven't included Babb as he was awesome in 94 even if McGrath held his hand for the 4 games, but they were far from the worst players ever to pull on a green shirt.
I think Butler & Lapria would be the 2 stand outs of recent times although Alan O'Brien must come pretty close

[DeLorean]

I can still distinctly recall his appearance from the bench against Spain in the 2002 World Cup when he barely touched the ball and was utterly hopeless.

He came on with 10mins to go of normal time for God sake, what'd you expect, a hat-trick? and if I remember right he nearly sneaked one into the bottom corner at the death. He did miss his penalty but he wasn't alone. I'm with as_i_say on this one bigtime.

[Scooby1983]

Joe Lapira is the answer of course.
Alan Kernaghan gets you a bonus point.

:) I remember him getting man of the match two games in a row on RTE. That was the peak for him though - absolutely shocking. Honourable mention to the Doc for me. Donkey of the highest order.

[The Swordsman]

So you think Lapira was a better player for us than Kernaghan?

Lapira only played once and was only brought in to make up numbers. Butler only played half a game

Kernaghan played 20 or 30.

Maybe if Lapira had played 20 times, he may have proved to have been a better player.;)

[gustavo]

Lapira only played once and was only brought in to make up numbers. Butler only played half a game

Kernaghan played 20 or 30.

Maybe if Lapira had played 20 times, he may have proved to have been a better player.;)
The fact that he played 20-30 as you say suggests he wasn't doing that bad of a job

[DeLorean]

The fact that he played 20-30 as you say suggests he wasn't doing that bad of a job

Especially seeing as many of them would have been during the successful 1994 WC Qualifying campaign.

[as_i_say]

Maybe if thread was "worst Irish player to get more than 20 caps" or something. 1 or 2 cap wonders like Lapira/Butler/macken were obviously crap cos they only got 1 or 2 caps!

[gspain]

The only thing I'm upset about is that game last night, but I won't blame Alan for that.

I remember the Denmark game well and he did have a very good game. And you're right - there was a (short) spell when he looked like a good player. But you could say that about a lot of the players mentioned in this thread and you know the old saying about swallows and summers. I judged AK on the basis of what he did in his entire career, particularly for Ireland and unfortunately he had more awful games than good ones. He became a liability to team and was far from being a solid player. He was only getting picked because we had absolutely no alternative. I remember one game (a friendly against the Czechs springs to mind but I'm not sure) where, under no pressure, he literally tripped over the ball at the edge of the box and we ended up losing a goal.

If you remember, on the back of his initial performances for Ireland, he got a big money move (for the time) to Man City but it never amounted to anything. He just ended up drifting down the leagues.

BTW, Paddy, I have no personal gripe with AK as you seem to imply (feel free to correct me if I picked you up wrong) - I just don't rate him as a player.

I can't recall the incident you mention. I think I attended almost all of his 22 caps and certainly the competitive ones.

He had a poor game against Spain in 1993 as did most others in green that day. He played in 7 other World Cup qualifiers in which we conceded 3 goals in total. He certainly wasn't at fault for Jimmy Quinn's goal in Belfast or the Albanian goal in Tirana. I can't recall the buildup or the finish to Kim Vilfort's goal in Dublin. We put out the reigning european champions and Alan turned in some great performaqnces in that campaign.

He lost his place for the finals because we had Liverpool's Phil Babb to play alongside Paul McGrath. Babb was very highly rated at the time and indeed looked a quality player for a time.

He subsequently played in 4 qualifiers in the next campaign where we missed out on a place in the finals after losing a playoff to Holland. I don't recall him being responsible for any of the 5 goals conceded while he playing.

His last cap was a 3-0 win over Bolivia in 1996 - where he captained the side.

He made a significant contribution to our team when we were ranked as high as 6th in the world.

[bennocelt]

Anyone naming Kernaghan as the worst Irish international ever seriously doesn't have a clue

yeah I kind of agree with this. The thing is.............didnt Kernaghan take a LONG TIME to settle with the irish team, and had a few bad early games, but once he got going I remember he surprised quite a few people in the qualifiers.

Will have to wait around for Worm to talk up Connolly.....................:p

Anyone remember Babbs last game for Ireland? Wasn't it V Scotland or Greece but it was one of the worst performances i have ever seen by anyone in a green jersey

[elroy]

He came on with 10mins to go of normal time for God sake, what'd you expect, a hat-trick? and if I remember right he nearly sneaked one into the bottom corner at the death. He did miss his penalty but he wasn't alone. I'm with as_i_say on this one bigtime.

Not a big fan of Connollys but you're right he had an effort from just outside the box that he almost curled into the bottom right hand corner.

[tetsujin1979]

yeah I kind of agree with this. The thing is.............didnt Kernaghan take a LONG TIME to settle with the irish team, and had a few bad early games, but once he got going I remember he surprised quite a few people in the qualifiers.

Will have to wait around for Worm to talk up Connolly.....................:p

Anyone remember Babbs last game for Ireland? Wasn't it V Scotland or Greece but it was one of the worst performances i have ever seen by anyone in a green jersey
his last game for Ireland was the 4-2 away defeat to Russia, he came on and scored an OG
It was after a fairly successful spell in Portugal, he won foreign player of the year (or something along those lines)

[gspain]

yeah I kind of agree with this. The thing is.............didnt Kernaghan take a LONG TIME to settle with the irish team, and had a few bad early games, but once he got going I remember he surprised quite a few people in the qualifiers.

Will have to wait around for Worm to talk up Connolly.....................:p

Anyone remember Babbs last game for Ireland? Wasn't it V Scotland or Greece but it was one of the worst performances i have ever seen by anyone in a green jersey

No - Kernaghan's first game was v Lithuania at home - cleansheet did well. 2nd game Denamrk (then european champions) away and we drew 0-0 in a cracking game. He was brilliant that night.

He was criticised after the Spain game a year later. We were rubbish that day but Kevin Moran had a nightmare too if I recall correctly being played in front of the back four. There was far too much hype and the party was planned to celebrate qualification.

He was actually very unlucky not to play in the world cup. We had Paul McGrath (our greatest ever player imo) and Phil Babb (then rated one of the top central defenders in England) in our team. Babb came through in the pre-tournament friendlies.

Mick McCarthy eased out the older lads for the 98 campaign. He was still a few months shy of his 30th birthday then.

Alan's commitment was never in doubt and he was also a decent centre half.

[The Swordsman]

I can't recall the incident you mention. I think I attended almost all of his 22 caps and certainly the competitive ones.

He had a poor game against Spain in 1993 as did most others in green that day. He played in 7 other World Cup qualifiers in which we conceded 3 goals in total. He certainly wasn't at fault for Jimmy Quinn's goal in Belfast or the Albanian goal in Tirana. I can't recall the buildup or the finish to Kim Vilfort's goal in Dublin. We put out the reigning european champions and Alan turned in some great performaqnces in that campaign.

He lost his place for the finals because we had Liverpool's Phil Babb to play alongside Paul McGrath. Babb was very highly rated at the time and indeed looked a quality player for a time.

He subsequently played in 4 qualifiers in the next campaign where we missed out on a place in the finals after losing a playoff to Holland. I don't recall him being responsible for any of the 5 goals conceded while he playing.

His last cap was a 3-0 win over Bolivia in 1996 - where he captained the side.

He made a significant contribution to our team when we were ranked as high as 6th in the world.



I think the game I mentioned was a friendly and it was at LR. My first thought was McCarthy's first game in charge against Russia (when Roy Keane was sent off for trying to launch a Russian into orbit :D:D:D) but I don't think AK was a regular in the squad at the time and McCarthy was trying a lot of new players out. It may possibly have been the last game at LR before the 94 WC (against CzechoSlovakia/Czech Republic, I think). What I do remember is AK at the right edge of the box near the byeline falling over the ball and one of the opposition picking the ball up and crossing for a teammate to score.

Anyway, Some good points made in your post. However....

It was great that we qualified for the WC, but our main opposition was Spain and Denmark. Denmark were reigning European champions only because they had a good run in the Finals - they hadn't even qualified and were only there by default. To knock them out wasn't as big a deal as e.g. knocking Holland out in 2002.

And we had a good squad. We had players like Keane, Houghton, Townsend, Sheridan in midfield, Aldo, Tommy Coyne, Cascarino and Quinn in attack, two good full backs in Terry Phelan and Denis Irwin and Big Paul for one of the Centre Half positions. The main weakness in the squad was the lack of cover at Centre Half and that is why Kernaghan got so many games. It was a breath of fresh air when it was discovered that Babb had an Irish granny. BTW, Babb was a Coventry player when he joined the squad - he only joined Liverpool after the WC.

[gspain]

I think the game I mentioned was a friendly and it was at LR. My first thought was McCarthy's first game in charge against Russia (when Roy Keane was sent off for trying to launch a Russian into orbit :D:D:D) but I don't think AK was a regular in the squad at the time and McCarthy was trying a lot of new players out. It may possibly have been the last game at LR before the 94 WC (against CzechoSlovakia/Czech Republic, I think). What I do remember is AK at the right edge of the box near the byeline falling over the ball and one of the opposition picking the ball up and crossing for a teammate to score.

Anyway, Some good points made in your post. However....

It was great that we qualified for the WC, but our main opposition was Spain and Denmark. Denmark were reigning European champions only because they had a good run in the Finals - they hadn't even qualified and were only there by default. To knock them out wasn't as big a deal as e.g. knocking Holland out in 2002.

And we had a good squad. We had players like Keane, Houghton, Townsend, Sheridan in midfield, Aldo, Tommy Coyne, Cascarino and Quinn in attack, two good full backs in Terry Phelan and Denis Irwin and Big Paul for one of the Centre Half positions. The main weakness in the squad was the lack of cover at Centre Half and that is why Kernaghan got so many games. It was a breath of fresh air when it was discovered that Babb had an Irish granny. BTW, Babb was a Coventry player when he joined the squad - he only joined Liverpool after the WC.

1) Knocking Denmark out was a very big deal. They were a quality side as indeed were the Yugoslavia side that missede out on Euro92. That draw in Copenhagen was ssuperb performance and result. It was a cracking match in Dublin as well. Whether or not it was a better achievement than putting Holland out doesn't denigrate the achievement.

2) Yes of course we had a great squad then. Amazing our worst ever player got 2 man of the match awards in those qualifiers then given the quality he was up against.

You may be right about Babb signing for Liverpool after rather than before the finals. I don't recall. Either way he was a very highly rated defender at the time. His Coventry side were decent too - 45 goals conceded in 42 games
during the 93/4 season(ten less than Liverpool).

As for the goal you mention it may well have happened in either friendly. I was certainly at both but don't remember any of the goals conceded.

Even still surely it would take a lot more than one bad goal i na friendly and a poor performance v Spain (along with almost everybody else that day) to make Alan our worst ever player.

The main reason I'm defending him stronger than some of the other players mentioned here that are nowhere near our worst ever player is not just becase he was a decent player but because he also gave of his best in every game.

[endabob1]

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/past_players/players/babb/

Liverpools official site suggests he was signed after the World Cup

"It was largely due to his performances in the 1994 World Cup in America for Ireland which persuaded then manager Roy Evans to splash out a record transfer fee for a defender to secure his services"

Which is also my memory of the events

[Ash]

We have had some rubbish over the years...mcgoldrick, daish, lapira, kernaghan, my namesake...i could go on.

Rivaldo never played for Ireland




:p

[pineapple stu]

I can't recall the buildup or the finish to Kim Vilfort's goal in Dublin.
Wasn't that Paul McGrath's slack clearance which Vilfort returned first time from 35 yards to lob Bonner?

[DeLorean]

No - Kernaghan's first game was v Lithuania at home - cleansheet did well

Think it must have been Latvia cos I remember him scoring against Lithuania in Dublin later in the campaign.


Wasn't that Paul McGrath's slack clearance which Vilfort returned first time from 35 yards to lob Bonner?

Remember that like it was yesterday for some reason, Vilfort took it on the chest first though I think! McGrath redeemed himself later winning the corner that set up Quinn's equaliser.

[Wolfie]

Wasn't that Paul McGrath's slack clearance which Vilfort returned first time from 35 yards to lob Bonner?

Correct. Seemed to take an age to hit the net from my vantage point - standing behing "the wall" on the North Terrace. The goal was scored into the South Terrace end so it appeared to have a weird flight when viewed from our end of the pitch.

"The Road to the USA" shows a brilliant slow motion clip from behind the goal of our equaliser.

Quinn and the supporters featured are absolutely ecstatic as he runs away having scored. A little further up the pitch there is footage of McGrath - not engaged with the players but making his way back to the half way line, clenching his fist, head bowed and a relieved man.

[gspain]

Think it must have been Latvia cos I remember him scoring against Lithuania in Dublin later in the campaign.



Remember that like it was yesterday for some reason, Vilfort took it on the chest first though I think! McGrath redeemed himself later winning the corner that set up Quinn's equaliser.

On 2nd thoughts Think you are right - Latvia sept 92 would have been his debut and then he scored against Lithuania in Sept 93. I'm just like the Czech programme editor who mixed up Latvia and Lithuania. :D

I can remember Quinn's equaliser but not the Danish goal.

[DeLorean]

I can remember Quinn's equaliser but not the Danish goal.

Think the reason I remember it so well, along with the rare error from McGrath was the identity of the scorer. We had become familiar with him during Euro 92 when he scored Denmark's 2nd goal in the Final, also kind of handled it I think.

[bennocelt]

his last game for Ireland was the 4-2 away defeat to Russia, he came on and scored an OG
It was after a fairly successful spell in Portugal, he won foreign player of the year (or something along those lines)

ok fair enough was on my travels then anyway, but the games he played in Landsdowne he was awful

[bennocelt]

Wasn't that Paul McGrath's slack clearance which Vilfort returned first time from 35 yards to lob Bonner?

yeah remember that one, we were all shocked since Mcgrath made a small mistake, and u know he never did mistakes...............ever!
But he had a hand in the equaliser

[Face Kicker]

Anyone remember that chap Alan Lee? Brian Kerr used to pick him quite regularly. Absolutly terrible!

[Hibernian]

Anyone remember that chap Alan Lee? Brian Kerr used to pick him quite regularly. Absolutly terrible!

Jesus ya he seemed more suited to 11 a side down the park never seen him do anything have say

[Colbert Report]

I haven't read through the thread, so it has probably already been mentioned, but this conversation begins and ends with one name: Joseph Lapira. I mean, seriously.

[Bluebeard]

I suspect that some people's loathing of Alan Kernaghan may be a mixed bag containing overheard influences from Dunphy's pillorying of him from the very beginning of his career, leading to his assigning him near sole blame for the 3-1 home defeat to Spain in 1993, a match where none in green did themselves proud. I thought he was unlucky not to play in the USA, particularly with the hindsight of what Phil Babb went on to become - a Spice Boy and golfing magazine publisher.

Speaking of Kernaghan, here is an interesting article on him and nationality (http://sport.scotsman.com/rangersfc/Kernaghan-still-pushing-back-the.3337606.jp) I found a link to on his wikipedia page.

[DeLorean]

I think the game The Swordsman might be referring to where Kernaghan slipped over the ball or whatever was probably the 3-1 defeat at home to the Czechs in a friendly before the 94 WC. Think were unbeaten in friendlies outside of that having won in Holland and Germany and beating Bolivia at home. I don't remember the goal he was on about so I might be wrong. Doesn't matter anyway he was nowhere near our worst player regardless.

[youngirish]

I suspect that some people's loathing of Alan Kernaghan may be a mixed bag containing overheard influences from Dunphy's pillorying of him from the very beginning of his career, leading to his assigning him near sole blame for the 3-1 home defeat to Spain in 1993, a match where none in green did themselves proud. I thought he was unlucky not to play in the USA, particularly with the hindsight of what Phil Babb went on to become - a Spice Boy and golfing magazine publisher.

Speaking of Kernaghan, here is an interesting article on him and nationality (http://sport.scotsman.com/rangersfc/Kernaghan-still-pushing-back-the.3337606.jp) I found a link to on his wikipedia page.

He has few regrets, however. "I had no problems pulling on the Republic shirt," he reflects. "I was simply furthering my career.

Reading that article makes me all the happier he didn't represent us in the World Cup. Thank God Babb got in and it helped him to further his career instead.

And he was absolute sh*te no matter what the pc brigade on here like to believe. A couple of decent performances in 26 caps does not overturn the fact that he was absolutely dire in the majority of his other 2 dozen performances. Kevin Kilbane, Chris Morris, Paul McShane, Phil Babb, Gary Doherty and David Connolly have all put in excellent performances for Ireland on rare occasions throughout the years but all are poor players for the simple reason that football is about consistency and not one off games, something that gets overlooked quite often on these boards.

Anyway back to Kernaghan he was certainly the poorest player I can remember lining out for Ireland who got more than a handful of caps. He was garbage at club level also.