Pat Kellys response

[rovers100%]

lads as you know on the rovers v bohs forum we complained about the officiating, well i emailed pat kelly and recieved a very quick response this morning. it is as follows

Hi Colin,

Thank you for the email regarding LOI Referee performances. The performances of the match officials are monitored in every match by a Referee Observer who is a former LOI Official who would have the experience and expertise to perform these duties. The Observers reports on the performances of the match officials are discussed in detail and a decision on future appointments for officials are based on these reports. I have not attended this particular match but I have had discussions with both the Referee Observer and the Referee following a series of complaints from Sligo Rovers. I have also spoken to personnel from both Clubs who had various opinions on the incidents you mentioned but unfortunately there was no camera at the match and I do not have an opportunity to see for myself. However I obviously cannot discuss the contents of my discussions with all parties as this information is confidential. We have put a lot of time and effort to raise the refereeing standards since I took over the appointments and we are happy with the progress to date but we realise that consistency in decision making is the key to good performances. If you had the time to visit the FAI HQ in Dublin at any time I would be happy to go through our refereeing structures with you to give you a better insight as to how the whole procedure of appointments and assessments works. You are obviously interested in the whole LOI situation as we all are and hopefully it will get over the present difficulties and move forward from there. I hope this reply will help to answer your query even if it is no consolation to you on the outcome of last Monday’s match. However if you would like to take up my offer I would be happy to meet you.


Kind Regards

Pat Kelly
Manager Referees Department
Football Association of Ireland.


well at least he responded and i think it was very decent to offer me to come meet him and see the process of referee review, i would like to take him up on his offer and maybe one or two more lads share the experience. im sure the forza lads would have a thing or two to say to him !!! maybe one of the forza lads and one of the dublins and sligo supporters club and myself. would be an interesting day

[The Lilywhites]

The performances of the match officials are monitored in every match by a Referee Observer who is a former LOI Official

:rolleyes: It's no wonder they never improve.

[CF1989]

fare play to him for responding first of all..

no camera at a cup semi final...unbelievable really! if there was a referee assesor at the game, and he knows anything about football, and is in any way honest, winter will get suspeded at least. or else he'll just stick up for for his buddy and say nothing about it. the lineswoman should be dealt with severly also. not only bad decisions from rovers point of view, also some fouls on bohs players beside her too but she done nothing. absolute disgrace

the tackle on raff by cronin before half time was an absolute joke. only a yellow card for a possible leg breaking tackle. camano's red was justified, but how he failed to send off gregg was beyond me.

a cross from a bohs player, kicked out quite clearly by keano for a corner, and he gives a goal kick. a tackle from kendrick on brennan right in front of the lineswoman quite clearly a free kick and she didnt put the flag up.

turner going into the box just after half-time, cleary being held back by shelley and pulled down to the ground, yet no foul given.
in the build up to their 2nd goal, ball goes out off a bohs player right beside the lineswoman gives it the wrong way and they go and score seconds later.

we'll have complaints on saturday again about the referee's performance, i have no doubt about that. and pn tuesday night aswell. its NEVER going to improve

[sadloserkid]

Fair play to him. There's not much more he could have done that that.


:rolleyes: It's no wonder they never improve.

And who should be observing the refs? Fans?

[CF1989]

Fair play to him. There's not much more he could have done that that.



And who should be observing the refs? Fans?

well they clearly never say anything bad about the ref's....i think only once has a referee been suspended/degraded. after our game v cork last season in turners when butler and mckenzie were sent off.

[rovers100%]

well i believe by him responding at all we at the least we have succeeded in some small way, at least he is willing to listen to the fans and willing to meet us. i think its too good an oppertunity to miss out because complaing among ourselves will definetly not achieve anything

[sadloserkid]

well they clearly never say anything bad about the ref's....i think only once has a referee been suspended/degraded. after our game v cork last season in turners when butler and mckenzie were sent off.

I'm not disputing that point particularly though I don't know the ins and outs in terms of referees being censured for performances in any detail either.

All I'm saying is that there's not a huge amount of people who actually know the rules of the game in depth (as opposed to the typical fan of any club) to oversee the whole process.

[CF1989]

I'm not disputing that point particularly though I don't know the ins and outs in terms of referees being censured for performances in any detail either.

All I'm saying is that there's not a huge amount of people who actually know the rules of the game in depth (as opposed to the typical fan of any club) to oversee the whole process.

yeah its upto the FAI to employ people to do so then, its their league and the refereeing is doing nothing to help.....people are sick and tired of their performances and its driving some people away from games.

they should have people employed, no ex ref's, to asses their performances. there more than likely friends of the referee so its a biased view

[sadloserkid]

yeah its upto the FAI to employ people to do so then, its their league and the refereeing is doing nothing to help.....people are sick and tired of their performances and its driving some people away from games.

they should have people employed, no ex ref's, to asses their performances. there more than likely friends of the referee so its a biased view

Fair enough. But who should doing it then? Should you and I be considered for arguments sake? I'm not disagreeing with you per se or trying to be awkward, just genuinely curious as to what the alternative is to the current situation. Your point about the ex refs and existing refs being friends is a very valid one.

[Rovers Maniac]

I make it now 4 red cards against us this season by Winters, i hope we don't never see him again.

[rovers100%]

my response to pat kelly

Pat, it is refreshing to see such a swift response and for that i am truly grateful. i believed my email would go unnoticed. i understand officials have a hard job and believe me as for the result i do not believe that was the doing of the officials as only the opposing team can put the ball into the back of the net and our league position is down to poor defending not richie winters and co. what my problem is, is what it is doing in general to the league. many first time supporters came to the villaznia game and have continually followed until last monday..... the problem is they witnessed top class officiating in the european game and a good game to boot but unfortunately since they have witnessed our loi refs/officials and it has turned them away once again as they believe the game is ruined by crazy decissions . As for your offer to come see you and fully understand the role yourself and your colleagues undertake i am most grateful and would like to take you up on the offer in the near future and im not just fobbing you off but at the minute my finance is 3 weeks away from giving birth to our first child. i believe if the fai and the fans and everyone else involved in the loi work together the league can strive and someday we will see irish teams competing at the highest level in europe. Thank you again for your response i look forward to meeting you in the future

[CF1989]

I make it now 4 red cards against us this season by Winters, i hope we don't never see him again.

i said long before mondays game he's the worst referee in the league. loves himself.....

[dong]

Obviously you couldn't get fans to do it and the current system isn't working.
I think you need to get somebody from England who has retired as a Referee to come over for random games throughout the season. Their view would be at least impartial as they wouldn't know the individuals refereeing games in this country.
I'd say they'd be shocked by what they saw.

[CF1989]

Fair enough. But who should doing it then? Should you and I be considered for arguments sake? I'm not disagreeing with you per se or trying to be awkward, just genuinely curious as to what the alternative is to the current situation. Your point about the ex refs and existing refs being friends is a very valid one.

well there are many people employed in the FAI. coaches, regional development officers etc. no reason why these people cant attend a game once a week, getting paid for it and assesing the referee. the FAI could hold an intensive course in rules or whatever for these people. they wouldn't know the referee's personally (as friends anyway), alot of them coaches are ex players and would have some common sense. its a better option than having ex referee's doing it. (imo)

[sadloserkid]

I prefer CF1989's suggestion actually. Wouldn't necessarily pay the RDOs and whoever any extra to attend games either, no reason that it shouldn't be part of their duties. There's a recession going on you know (so flying in English refs might be a bit pricey too).

[CF1989]

well the fai have plenty of money with some of the wages so an extra few hundred euro altogether a week wouldnt kill them, as long as it might improve the standard

[Da Real Rover]

I remember reading an article about the Romanian league there the other day.
Apparently the league was beset by incompetant refereeing and rampant coruption among officials.
They decided to fly in foreign refs for games and it turned out to be a raging success.
An absolutley minnow team who never before won the league in their history won the title, a team managed in fact by Dan Petrescu.
He even stated that winning the title would have been impossible without a shake up of the refereeing establishment.
Now I really doubt there is serious coruption issues in the league but the level of incompetence is staggering in referees.
I suggest a trial of this method to see if there is any improvement, surely it cannot be worse than the current level of officiating.

BTW congradulations on the sprog Rovers100%.

[sligofan4ever]

Next time Richie Winter is in charge of one of our games someone should bring along a camera and show Pat Kelly himself just how many crazy decisions he makes!

[passerrby]

[QUOTE=rovers100%;1206577] The performances of the match officials are monitored in every match by a Referee Observer who is a former LOI Official who would have the experience and expertise to perform these duties.

translated this means" the idiot in the middle fcuking up the match is been overseen by an idiot who did the same job 10 years ago before his eyesight went completely, but still needs some income so we gave him this gig"

[redobit]

im not just fobbing you off but at the minute my finance is 3 weeks away from giving birth to our first child.
people on here would need to get their priorities in order.:D

In all serious though, to have an ex official monotoring these games is ridiculous. They are definetly going to all know each other and are a lot less likely to start handing out yellow and red cards (if you will) to their buddies.

[rovers100%]

next time sir richie refs the forza lads should do up banners !!! not abusing him but maybe asking for a fair game and highlight it big style. lets get a campaign going to improve the standard of referee to improve !!!:D

[prodsc]

Well done to PK for the response and to you for the original post.

A semi final should not have a home town ref ie. a dub ref. I know on certain weekends its impossible not to have a Dub ref in charge of a game involving a Dub team.

So many of our players are being booked/and s/f as a result of bad refereeing who get an automatic suspension, can this not be reversed by the OFFICIAL?

So many bad decisions at Showgrounds this year it does want to make some folk not come back. Then there is the Lino that runs straight to the tunnel because he has made so many bad decisions he cant bear the abuse, then who was the ref at the Pats game?

edit:R W unlikely to be welcome back to Showgrounds soon..

[Well Red]

I am amazed that there seems to be an air of goodwill to Pat Kelly. I contacted him months ago about Winter and his reply was the same in other words it is a standard reply. The guy is payed to do his job and the fact that he says he is happy with the situation says it all. When I contacted him months ago about Winter he had not been at the game either and I wonder is he just depending on the morons that report back to him about thier friends performances. I think we are gone soft on him because he pushes the send button on a standard reply.
Perhaps it is time to contact Delany at the FAI to investigate the shocking standard at which Winter operates, the guy is a loose cannon and he gets a kick out of giving out cards instead of trying to prevent them.

[Nathan]

Didn’t Alan Kelly get 6 weeks for a bad decision in a game last season? handed down by Daddy!

I think the way it works is (or supposed to work), you are marked on your performance anything under a 7 is poor and you will be dropped/suspended, if you have a major **** up its a 6 week ban repeat offences would warrant demotion or deboot.

[avvenalaf]

I am amazed that there seems to be an air of goodwill to Pat Kelly. I contacted him months ago about Winter and his reply was the same in other words it is a standard reply. The guy is payed to do his job and the fact that he says he is happy with the situation says it all. When I contacted him months ago about Winter he had not been at the game either and I wonder is he just depending on the morons that report back to him about thier friends performances. I think we are gone soft on him because he pushes the send button on a standard reply.
Perhaps it is time to contact Delany at the FAI to investigate the shocking standard at which Winter operates, the guy is a loose cannon and he gets a kick out of giving out cards instead of trying to prevent them.

Delaney or Winter ?

[lifelong rover]

winters was de-moted to fourth official status for 3 games after he sent cook off in drogheda earlier this year, maybe it was pay-back time.

[CF1989]

not really a referee's fault for sending a manager etc off, its the 4th official who tells him to really

[lifelong rover]

cook appealed and won his case winters was wrong in sending him off
it was the day that he sent 2 players off also (sligo players of course)

[Terry]

Then there is the Lino that runs straight to the tunnel because he has made so many bad decisions he cant bear the abuse.

This isnt the case, the lino nearest to the dressing rooms at the final whistle must proceed to the tunnel and remain there until everyone is in off the pitch. He/she does this so someone has a full view of everyone, if there is any trouble e.g. between players going down the tunnel, players and officials coming off the pitch etc... It Happens in every league now.

[CF1989]

This isnt the case, the lino nearest to the dressing rooms at the final whistle must proceed to the tunnel and remain there until everyone is in off the pitch. He/she does this so someone has a full view of everyone, if there is any trouble e.g. between players going down the tunnel, players and officials coming off the pitch etc... It Happens in every league now.

surely it should be the 4th officials job to do that

[Terry]

No. the nearest lino to the tunnel.

[rovers100%]

an update on pats latest response to my last email
Thank you for the kind comments. With regard to your friends not going to the matches because of refereeing decisions. We may not always agree with their decisions and have our own opinions on them but all the decisions are in the opinion of the referee and that’s what counts. However our referees have received excellent reports in their FIFA and UEFA matches over the past 5 seasons and go from strength to strength. I hope you will take me up on my offer in the near future as it will give you a better insight into our refereeing structure. Maybe your new born will one day end up as a referee. Who knows. I never thought my Sons would follow me into refereeing and I followed my Father into refereeing also. Best of Luck with the New Arrival and keep in touch.
Best of Luck.

Pat.


people saying here that his first message was standard reply but a follow up shows that maybe he is willing to listen to the supporters and that can be only a good thing !!!

[sligofan4ever]

an update on pats latest response to my last email
Thank you for the kind comments. With regard to your friends not going to the matches because of refereeing decisions. We may not always agree with their decisions and have our own opinions on them but all the decisions are in the opinion of the referee and that’s what counts. However our referees have received excellent reports in their FIFA and UEFA matches over the past 5 seasons and go from strength to strength. I hope you will take me up on my offer in the near future as it will give you a better insight into our refereeing structure. Maybe your new born will one day end up as a referee. Who knows. I never thought my Sons would follow me into refereeing and I followed my Father into refereeing also. Best of Luck with the New Arrival and keep in touch.
Best of Luck.

Pat.


people saying here that his first message was standard reply but a follow up shows that maybe he is willing to listen to the supporters and that can be only a good thing !!!

Couldn't do much worse than Richie Winter right now.

[Rovers1]

Maybe your new born will one day end up as a referee.

No! We have enough female refs in this league!

[rovers100%]

we could do with a few better lineswomen if the bohs game was anything to go by

[roversforever]

Doesn't really show that he's willing to change anything though. In fact if you look beyond his attempting to keep you sweet by wishing you luck with the new born he's actually just defending the refs and is attempting to say things are improving when clearly they're not!

[Martinho II]

an update on pats latest response to my last email
Thank you for the kind comments. With regard to your friends not going to the matches because of refereeing decisions. We may not always agree with their decisions and have our own opinions on them but all the decisions are in the opinion of the referee and that’s what counts. However our referees have received excellent reports in their FIFA and UEFA matches over the past 5 seasons and go from strength to strength. I hope you will take me up on my offer in the near future as it will give you a better insight into our refereeing structure. Maybe your new born will one day end up as a referee. Who knows. I never thought my Sons would follow me into refereeing and I followed my Father into refereeing also. Best of Luck with the New Arrival and keep in touch.
Best of Luck.

Pat.


people saying here that his first message was standard reply but a follow up shows that maybe he is willing to listen to the supporters and that can be only a good thing !!!

strangely enough I was speaking to Alan Kellys older brother in the spiral tree sunday morning ! He reffed our game on saturday evening! He was telling me that Alan Kelly will lose his hair soon like him!

[red_away]

Same old b0110x from PK - reffing has not improved or if i was cynical would say it has improved but then the refs we are getting are biased?

Nothing will change!

[bingoballs]

Same old b0110x from PK - reffing has not improved or if i was cynical would say it has improved but then the refs we are getting are biased?

Nothing will change!
If you were super cynical you could say that refs/officials could subsidise their allowance by having a bit of a flutter on a match. It would be interesting to see if any of them had an account with betfair

[Well Red]

See that our friend Herr Winter was flashing the red cards at Galway last night, two I think, love to hear any comments from Galway or Longford on his performance.

[Rory H]

Don't think there were any Galway fans there to see it :)

[dong]

Mightn't be too many of ours there to see it soon enough either.
Not sure if he Refs Division 1 games.

[Martinho II]

See that our friend Herr Winter was flashing the red cards at Galway last night, two I think, love to hear any comments from Galway or Longford on his performance.

winter was crap.. how the man is reffin i never know.. He sent off Neal McKenna for a sliding tackle and didnt make any allowance for the condtions! he couldnt get his offsides right either!

for a proper analysis of his performance ask our own RonnieB hes a fan of his!:D

[De Town]

he couldnt get his offsides right either!

Hardly the refs fault tbf.