Which towns could use LOI teams?

[peadar1987]

I recently spent three weeks in Mullingar, and found it strange how such a large town hasn't got a team in the LOI.

I know Castlebar, Tralee and Carlow have recently added teams to the LOI structure, are there any other towns out there that are big enough to support teams but don't, and what's the best way to set up a sustainable club from scratch?

My inclination would be to start off small, for Mullingar for example, I'd set up a site within walking distance of the town centre, with room for expansion, rent a bulldozer or JCB and build up a bank along one side of the pitch for spectators, seed that with grass, then get a local authority grant for a bar. For the first few seasons, have a strictly amateur setup, and every season, make a huge deal around the town about trials for next season. In fact, just make a huge deal around the town about the club in general, have DJs announce it in clubs on Friday night if the team won, put up posters in shops every week etc. Don't even think about paying players until the club is getting decent attendances. The most important thing is that the people of the town believe that the club is "their thing" from the start. That's how the GAA fill their stadia every weekend during the summer.

[Hairy Bowsie]

Good luck with that

[Black and White]

Dont start but Kilkenny!! Then theres room for a team from Navan?maybe Portlaoise? Tipp need a team back too!

[Boh_So_Good]

Dont start but Kilkenny!! Then theres room for a team from Navan?maybe Portlaoise? Tipp need a team back too!

Castlebar would be a real possibility.

[Black and White]

Castlebar would be a real possibility.

Castlebar have a team in the A league, just going by who dont have a team in the senior leagues

[dcfcsteve]

Cork could do with a team....

[De Town]

Good luck with that

This made me laugh out loud!:D Some people are so deluded.

[Dunny]

Bray are hardly doing great, look after your own club for now.

[dcfcsteve]

I recently spent three weeks in Mullingar, and found it strange how such a large town hasn't got a team in the LOI.

I know Castlebar, Tralee and Carlow have recently added teams to the LOI structure, are there any other towns out there that are big enough to support teams but don't, and what's the best way to set up a sustainable club from scratch?

My inclination would be to start off small, for Mullingar for example, I'd set up a site within walking distance of the town centre, with room for expansion, rent a bulldozer or JCB and build up a bank along one side of the pitch for spectators, seed that with grass, then get a local authority grant for a bar. For the first few seasons, have a strictly amateur setup, and every season, make a huge deal around the town about trials for next season. In fact, just make a huge deal around the town about the club in general, have DJs announce it in clubs on Friday night if the team won, put up posters in shops every week etc. Don't even think about paying players until the club is getting decent attendances. The most important thing is that the people of the town believe that the club is "their thing" from the start. That's how the GAA fill their stadia every weekend during the summer.

Here's an even crazier idea.

How about the league and FAI spend more time worrying about making the teams we already have in the structure more appealing, and stop them being in finacial trouble every other week....?

We can't even get long-standing teams in areas with a history of LOI football working, so why the hell would new clubs in towns with no history be any more appealing ? Have Kildare or Wexford set the Irish sporting world alight ?

Once that's done, then we could lok at crazy plans for expanding football into places that have never had it before.

[2legged tackle]

What about this for a crazy idea?
You all know how that hotel which hosted Real Madrid went out of their way with investment ,best practice etc.What if the government,in these days of unemployment decided to introduce a new industry into Ireland.This industry could create jobs at admin,advertising and player level.Would bring in many tourists in winter or summer,put Ireland back on the tourist map and give RTE and other Irish tv stations something to do,and attract self financing advertising revenue?Would the government be willing to grant aid this industry to the same extent they did overseas manufacturing investors?

THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE

INVEST IN IRISH FOOTBALL?

PS How about a team from Shannon to add to your list

[Straightstory]

Things are miserable enough for fans of LOI clubs without having to go to Mullingar twice a season.

[bennocelt]

Things are miserable enough for fans of LOI clubs without having to go to Mullingar twice a season.

ha ha thats true. Mullingar has two clubs - Athletic and Town - both HATE each other, and have on occasion robbed each others players. The town itself has a good support for football, with Town been the proper Mullingar team situated in the heart of the town and Athletic on the outskirts and for the children of cops and the like!:p
In fact Town is situated in dalton park, a very rough part of the town (you tube it!! -Mullingar/dalton park riots!), and would be interesting if Sham/Bohs fans came down here for a visit!!!;)
Athletic have great facilties but is run like a personal-family fiefdom and many a quality player has had his football career ruined by the club (which is a bloody disgrace)
Town had all those London players a while back in the under21 set up, and crowds were good at the start and there was a def buzz around the town, but it kind of all fizzled out in the end - ie a lot of the players enjoyed themselves too much out on a sat night!

[Buile Shuibhne]

You want Franchise Football ?

[John83]

While I think the thinking behind this thread is a bit wobbly, here at least is something to add a little substance to the debate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland_by_popula tion

[Rovers1]

Which town could use LOI teams?.

Ballinacarrow.

[don ramo]

Cork could do with a team....

cork county have 2 at the moment:mad:

A league is still LOI football#


its true whats said, make the current ones sucessfull before you go adding teams

[Dunny]

Muff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muff,_County_Donegal)

:)

[Hairy Bowsie]

Muff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muff,_County_Donegal)

:)

Agreed and when that new foriegn striker they buy goes over too easy for a peno, we'll all be able to call him a "Muff Diver"!!!

[Hairy Bowsie]

Or diver could be good too.

:o Ha i meant to say that. Edited now

[Weatherman]

Bray are hardly doing great, look after your own club for now.

What you mean by that?? Bray's league position might not be the best but over recent years they have done much better then you's! where dundalk not stuck in the 1st division for years up untill when?? Last year???

[Dunny]

What you mean by that?? Bray's league position might not be the best but over recent years they have done much better then you's! where dundalk not stuck in the 1st division for years up untill when?? Last year???

Think before you reply. It wasn't exactly a dig at Bray...:rolleyes:

Shouldn't you be off starting pointless threads anyway?

[Dodge]

Dunny, clam down and stop having a pop/sly dig at everyone

[Rovers fan]

Muff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muff,_County_Donegal)

:)

Nah, that place is too wet for a LOI team imo.

[BohDiddley]

Have Kildare or Wexford set the Irish sporting world alight ?.
I have a feeling Wexford will be giving you lot a run for your money in 10 years.
I think the OP was taking a long-term view. There's not much point in talking about places with a LoI tradition when the country's second city can only get 3,000 out in a crisis.
Mullingar has a strong youth setup and could well be a LoI prospect.

[Weatherman]

Dunny, clam down and stop having a pop/sly dig at everyone
I second that!! And what pointless threads have i started??

[christo]

One of the Mulingar teams have aparently put a lot of money into on of the clubs in recent years not to sure which one.

On the note with Navan I think Kildare have proven that big towns don't breed big crowds, with Naas and Newbridge one of the few biggest town in Ireland, and Navan is an out and out GAA town and I can't see a LOI club coming about ever.

[peadar1987]

Here's an even crazier idea.

How about the league and FAI spend more time worrying about making the teams we already have in the structure more appealing, and stop them being in finacial trouble every other week....?

We can't even get long-standing teams in areas with a history of LOI football working, so why the hell would new clubs in towns with no history be any more appealing ? Have Kildare or Wexford set the Irish sporting world alight ?

Once that's done, then we could lok at crazy plans for expanding football into places that have never had it before.

The FAI should be capable of doing more than one thing at a time. Consolidating existing clubs could easily be done at the same time as expanding into new areas. As bennocelt says, there are already two teams in the town (although I wouldn't set foot in Dalton Park, wandered in there by mistake a few years back, and instantly got recognised as an outsider, the first and only time in my life I've ever had to sprint away from an angry mob!), and both enjoy decent community support. I think they could attract crowds of over 1500 if either one of them decided to join the league, especially if they were successful.

[CharlesThompson]

I'd say Milltown in Dublin could do with a team.

[dcfcsteve]

The FAI should be capable of doing more than one thing at a time. Consolidating existing clubs could easily be done at the same time as expanding into new areas. As bennocelt says, there are already two teams in the town (although I wouldn't set foot in Dalton Park, wandered in there by mistake a few years back, and instantly got recognised as an outsider, the first and only time in my life I've ever had to sprint away from an angry mob!), and both enjoy decent community support. I think they could attract crowds of over 1500 if either one of them decided to join the league, especially if they were successful.

Why do people always stare over at the FAI and say "Do something..." ?!?

Name me one LOI club that is doing everything it possibly could to market its games locally, tap into its local community, build links witrh junior football etc etc etc.

Sure, it's a lot easier to go the welfare approach and blame the FAI for all the league's woes.

Beyond that, I can't be arsed playing fantasy football league with you. Footnball teams that have been around for the longest tend to have the biggest support. Unsurprising really, as football support builds over time and generations.

Picking random towns around the country and shoe-horning an LOI team into them has been proven to add little to the league. Of the 6 teams introduced in one big swoop in 1985 (Monaghan, Cobh, Newcastle United, Bray, Derry City, EMFA), all were in new areas for the LOI. Of the 6 teams, 3 are now out of senior football, 1 struggles permanently in the first division with woeful crowds, and one titters on the precipice of the Premier most seasons, and attracts relatively low crowds. The only one that's really added much to thenleague is Derry City - which was a club in a footballing town with a 60 year tradition before they joined.

Since then, other expansionary ventures have seen the league venture into new areas like Kildare and Wexford. Kildare were only saved from relegation out of senior football by the problems of another 'new expansion town' club's problems. That leaves Wexford, who are doing relatively well - but it's still early days yet.

Ergo - the lessons of how successful fantasy football expansionary schemes have been in LOI to-date are clear for anyone who wants to open their eyes to see them.

[peadar1987]

Why do people always stare over at the FAI and say "Do something..." ?!?

Mainly because the FAI are the governing body for football in this country, and as such it is their responsibility to promote the game in whatever way possible.



Name me one LOI club that is doing everything it possibly could to market its games locally, tap into its local community, build links witrh junior football etc etc etc.

Name me one club in the world that does this. Besides, this has little or nothing to do with the original post



Sure, it's a lot easier to go the welfare approach and blame the FAI for all the league's woes.

I don't, but they can definitely be a part of the solution



Beyond that, I can't be arsed playing fantasy football league with you. Footnball teams that have been around for the longest tend to have the biggest support. Unsurprising really, as football support builds over time and generations.




Picking random towns around the country and shoe-horning an LOI team into them has been proven to add little to the league. Of the 6 teams introduced in one big swoop in 1985 (Monaghan, Cobh, Newcastle United, Bray, Derry City, EMFA), all were in new areas for the LOI. Of the 6 teams, 3 are now out of senior football, 1 struggles permanently in the first division with woeful crowds, and one titters on the precipice of the Premier most seasons, and attracts relatively low crowds. The only one that's really added much to thenleague is Derry City - which was a club in a footballing town with a 60 year tradition before they joined.

Since then, other expansionary ventures have seen the league venture into new areas like Kildare and Wexford. Kildare were only saved from relegation out of senior football by the problems of another 'new expansion town' club's problems. That leaves Wexford, who are doing relatively well - but it's still early days yet.

Ergo - the lessons of how successful fantasy football expansionary schemes have been in LOI to-date are clear for anyone who wants to open their eyes to see them.

So out of the six teams we have one which has produced two of the finest Irish footballers of our generation (Cobh), two solid, well-run clubs (Monaghan and Bray), a really big club in Irish terms (Derry), and then two failed clubs. Not bad going in my opinion.

[dcfcsteve]

Mainly because the FAI are the governing body for football in this country, and as such it is their responsibility to promote the game in whatever way possible.

At all levels - not just senior club level. If the senior clubs can't even do a half-decent job of promoting themselves, and are run as a shambles financially, why should the FAI put any more effort into them than it does other sides of the game (female, schoolboy etc) ?


Name me one club in the world that does this. Besides, this has little or nothing to do with the original post

Jaysus wept - are for real ?!? Are you suggesting there isn't a single club in the world who doesn't have proper and strong local links....? :o


So out of the six teams we have one which has produced two of the finest Irish footballers of our generation (Cobh), two solid, well-run clubs (Monaghan and Bray), a really big club in Irish terms (Derry), and then two failed clubs. Not bad going in my opinion.

Rockmount 'produced' Roy Keane, not Cobh. He only played 12 games with Cobh, whereas he was with Rockmount for a decade. Who is ther other Irish player you're referring to for Cobh ?

So of the 6 new towns brought into Irish football in 1985, 50% have dropped out of the senior game, one team (Monaghan) just makes up the numbers (let's be brutally honest here) and one team (City) was a fairly safe bet given its long history, which was courtesy of s different league. That leaves Bray, who have done a half-decent effort - but let's be brutally honest, wouldn't be a huge loss to the league if they disappeared tomorrow. And you ignored Kildare too. And you think all this suggests bringing in new teams has been anywhere near a succesful strategy to making Irish football stronger ?!? :eek:

[don ramo]

Rockmount 'produced' Roy Keane, not Cobh. He only played 12 games with Cobh, whereas he was with Rockmount for a decade. Who is ther other Irish player you're referring to for Cobh ?

stephen ireland:o

and roy keane would have signed for city (which he actually did), and would more than likely never have been spotted, the only reason he signed for us is beacause we offered him a football scolarship (or whatever the thing was), were not claiming rights to him, but signing for ramblers (after already having signed for city) was probably the best decision of his career.

[Schumi]

You want Franchise Football ?

We have franchise football. Where do you think the Cork and Limerick teams came from?

[dcfcsteve]

stephen ireland:o

That dude with the phobia of international travel...?!?

He did less than a season with Cobh's schoolboy squad before moving to Man City, aged 15. Again - how does that mean Cobh 'produced' him ?


and roy keane would have signed for city (which he actually did), and would more than likely never have been spotted, the only reason he signed for us is beacause we offered him a football scolarship (or whatever the thing was), were not claiming rights to him, but signing for ramblers (after already having signed for city) was probably the best decision of his career.

He joined Cobh to take part in the FAI/FAS scheme - which ironically saw him based in Dublin most of the week to avail of full-time training. Yet more evidence of the fact that Cobh did not 'produce' him - regardless of whether his brief time with them was purely to secure access to that course.

The obvious elephant in the room is that Cobh are no longer in senior football. Just like EMFA/Kilkenny and Newcastle United/West. And that's before we get onto the other victims of fantasy football planting in the LOI, like Thurles Town.

[don ramo]

That dude with the phobia of international travel...?!?

He did less than a season with Cobh's schoolboy squad before moving to Man City, aged 15. Again - how does that mean Cobh 'produced' him ?

haha, i grew up across the road from him, do you honestly think he started training at 14,




He joined Cobh to take part in the FAI/FAS scheme - which ironically saw him based in Dublin most of the week to avail of full-time training. Yet more evidence of the fact that Cobh did not 'produce' him - regardless of whether his brief time with them was purely to secure access to that course.

of course it was, and thats never been denied, but if we didnt send him on that course, what do you think would have happened?,

every club a player plays with from the ages of 8-15-18 plays a hugh part in how a player developes and what kind of a player they will end up being,


The obvious elephant in the room is that Cobh are no longer in senior football. Just like EMFA/Kilkenny and Newcastle United/West. And that's before we get onto the other victims of fantasy football planting in the LOI, like Thurles Town.


ah were still a LOI club, we may not pay or players, but as i believe theres 1st div clubs that also dont, were not in the same boat as killkenny or newcastle,

[Hairy Bowsie]

That dude with the phobia of international travel...?!?

He did less than a season with Cobh's schoolboy squad before moving to Man City, aged 15. Again - how does that mean Cobh 'produced' him ?

Denis Bergkamp played for Cobh :confused:

[roinuj]

:d
cork could do with a team....

:d
lol

[Angus]

Mainly because the FAI are the governing body for football in this country, and as such it is their responsibility to promote the game in whatever way possible.


.

Yes but they are not responsible for how cloubs behave. They are responsible for setting a framework in which clubs are supposed to behave - for monitoring that behavious and for imposing penalties if those clubs don't behave.

The parallel is the builders and the regulator - our current crisis is the fault of individual builders and bankers - the regulator is responsible for bad judgement in managing all of the compliance and capital limits etc but not for the original "crime" itself

I would be gutted if I was a Cork fan - but I am sorry to say like Shels and Drogs before them, they have behaved recklessly, and possibly in breach of company law and need to go bust.

It is not the fault of the FAI that this has happened. They have set the limits and some clubs have failed to meet the commitments.

The play here is that owners will pump in some money for a couple of years looking for one big away draw in europe v man u or milan, or to get to the group stages of something - they will get their payoff and at that point will be gone.

Our league is decent, the pitches are good, the quality decent, the facilities less than good but all in all decent stuff - but the management of clubs is simply and utterly abysmal and verging on the criminally negligent.

[KeepersBall]

Navan has a lot of people with a HUGE interest in soccer.
However sadly the main club Parkvilla is seen by many to be somewhat elitist, ie nless you know people involved you are not welcome.
I never found this to be the case myself but it appears others feel that way.
The Meath and District League has an excellent set up on the Trim Road from Navan and maybe they should consider getting a team involved in the under 21 section.
The only way I can really judge interest would ne to go back quite a few years and recollect that when Parkvilla played Home Farm in the FAI Cup they packed the ground out whether they could do that week in week out I am not sure.

[brendy_éire]

Harps should have moved to Letterkenny instead of building their new ground in Stranorlar. Although I know that wouldn't have been a particularly popular move with Harps fans, Letterkenny is bigger and still getting bigger. Plus, it's closer to Derry. :)

[dcfcsteve]

Harps should have moved to Letterkenny instead of building their new ground in Stranorlar. Although I know that wouldn't have been a particularly popular move with Harps fans, Letterkenny is bigger and still getting bigger. Plus, it's closer to Derry. :)

I agree 100% and have said this a number of times before on here.

You get the standard responses from Harps fans (Letterkenny isn't that far form Ballybofey, location isn't the issue etc etc). I still think that from a longer-term perspective they are crazy to continue basing themselves in a village rather than Ireland's fastest growing town.

There are some Harps fans who would be fine with such a move, but the majority would seem to oppose such a suggestion.

[Mr A]

By moving to Letterkenny we'd be walking away from the prospect of a new stadium and would have to start afresh with a green field site.

While we'd be moving closer to the biggest population base in Donegal plus the North and Northwest of the county, we'd obviously be moving away from South Donegal, Strabane + West Tyrone and the Twin Towns. Harps currently play at the centre of our support, more or less anyway. I think it's a mistake to view Harps as merely tied to a town rather than being a county (plus bits of Tyrone) club.

I don't think the arguments for moving really add up. We need to always be the LOI club of Letterkenny, but we don't need to move there.

[Black and White]

Isnt that non league team Phoenix not from Meath somewhere?Where they not emalgamated from two non league temas, Ashtown Villa and some other team?Maybe Im wrong!

[davidatrb]

Phoenix FC would be from Dublin, they are not too far from the Phoenix Park as far as I know.

[Hairy Bowsie]

Isnt that non league team Phoenix not from Meath somewhere?Where they not emalgamated from two non league temas, Ashtown Villa and some other team?Maybe Im wrong!

They were all from the general Cabra area. I think the other team may have been Kinvara

[Ronnie]

Of the 6 clubs that came in in 1985, plus Longford and Cork in 1984, two have been very succsessful, Derry and Cork. Two have been quite successful, given their status in the overall scheme of things, Bray and Longford. Of the remaining 4 clubs, Monaghan are a very stable if unspectactular club and the other 3 are gone. Now I know Cork are hanging by a thread, but the expansion of the league with 8 new clubs in 84 and 85 hasn't been a complete disaster!

[dcfcsteve]

Of the 6 clubs that came in in 1985, plus Longford and Cork in 1984, two have been very succsessful, Derry and Cork. Two have been quite successful, given their status in the overall scheme of things, Bray and Longford. Of the remaining 4 clubs, Monaghan are a very stable if unspectactular club and the other 3 are gone. Now I know Cork are hanging by a thread, but the expansion of the league with 8 new clubs in 84 and 85 hasn't been a complete disaster!

It has hardly been a huge success either. City, Cork and Longford have all come extremely close to going out of business - Cork could still end-up that way - and Longford's recent success has been a tiny blip in their 25 year history. And as stated before - City were not a new team, but rather a team with a long tradition in a new league, so they can't be viewed the same way as the likes of Longford or Monaghan.

My point is that you can't just pick towns on a map and say 'them boys could do with a team', as experience shows that it is extremely difficult for new team to make a lasting impression in the LOI at the best of times. Not to mention that fact that it's borderline franchise football as well.

Maybe Belfast could do with an LOI team. Or the Isle of Man. Or Barcelona. Hmm.....

[The Betting Man]

Phoenix also have an all weather pitch

[Ronnie]

It has hardly been a huge success either. City, Cork and Longford have all come extremely close to going out of business - Cork could still end-up that way - and Longford's recent success has been a tiny blip in their 25 year history. And as stated before - City were not a new team, but rather a team with a long tradition in a new league, so they can't be viewed the same way as the likes of Longford or Monaghan.

My point is that you can't just pick towns on a map and say 'them boys could do with a team', as experience shows that it is extremely difficult for new team to make a lasting impression in the LOI at the best of times. Not to mention that fact that it's borderline franchise football as well.

Maybe Belfast could do with an LOI team. Or the Isle of Man. Or Barcelona. Hmm.....


Well for the record Longford Town is an old club, going back to 1924, it spent its first 60 years coming up through junior football. Looking at it over 25 years, 2 FAI Cup wins and 2 final defeats, 1 league cup win and league cup final defeat, and an 8 season run in the Premier, thats a record that compares very well with all bar 3 or 4 of the original 14 clubs in 1984.
Although I accept your point that you can't just pick a town that has a population as the basis for entering the league.

[Mr A]

Yes, but you can move an established club on the basis that the town down the road is bigger. Makes perfect sense.