Solution to League of Ireland problem?

[Shelsman]

I was thinking about how we could ever get soccer fans in Ireland (note -not Irish soccer fans :D) to support our league again.

We could ban coverage of the Premiership -but that would be difficult.

However, given the government's need to raise extra revenue, we could add a levy to satellite TV subscriptions (perhaps a percentage -so that those with Sky Sports would pay more :)). This could then be directed back into the league here (via grants).

There is a national interest here (not just sporting) -the tens of millions being spent by Irish people on the premiership and english leagues (replica jerseys, trips, subscriptions etc) is going straight out of the country and not coming back.

Of course all this is fairly radical, but if we had a sneaky minister for finance (it is FF after all!) then it could be done (he could be wearing a Bohs or Rovers jersey under his shirt or something for all we know!).

[MickNolan]

Sack Gavin....

[joema]

Tbh, I think fans on here should stop complaining about the current regime and having a go at barstoolers. Its a tiring game!

Prob just better off accepting and enjoying LOI football for what it is!

Anyway, the main stumbling block to LOI "progression" is the fact that people see English football as the default league of sorts.

Simple as that - when people think football, they think Man United, Liverpool etc. And you cannot blame these people - after all, every time they open up a newspaper or turn on the TV, that is what they see.

For the LOI to grow and progress in a manner that a lot of fans on here seem to want - LOI football has to be seen in a more natural light, i.e. it has to become ingrained in the public psyche in a way similar to that seen of the English Premiership. It has to get in the 'papers, regularly get on the back page (for the right reason) and attract genuine big name players that people will take notice of.

Aesthetics is also a big thing - I mean, the Australian A League is arguably a lower standard of football than the LOI, but it is played in impressive stadiums every week and it looks good on the TV. The same cannot be said of the Brandywell, the Showgrounds, Finn Park etc.

But all that aside....just enjoy the LOI for what it is!

[1st time post]

Tbh, I think fans on here should stop complaining about the current regime and having a go at barstoolers. Its a tiring game!

Prob just better off accepting and enjoying LOI football for what it is!

Anyway, the main stumbling block to LOI "progression" is the fact that people see English football as the default league of sorts.

Simple as that - when people think football, they think Man United, Liverpool etc. And you cannot blame these people - after all, every time they open up a newspaper or turn on the TV, that is what they see.

For the LOI to grow and progress in a manner that a lot of fans on here seem to want - LOI football has to be seen in a more natural light, i.e. it has to become ingrained in the public psyche in a way similar to that seen of the English Premiership. It has to get in the 'papers, regularly get on the back page (for the right reason) and attract genuine big name players that people will take notice of.

Aesthetics is also a big thing - I mean, the Australian A League is arguably a lower standard of football than the LOI, but it is played in impressive stadiums every week and it looks good on the TV. The same cannot be said of the Brandywell, the Showgrounds, Finn Park etc.

But all that aside....just enjoy the LOI for what it is!




Talk about a pick on the north-west.....;);)

[irishultra]

Tbh, I think fans on here should stop complaining about the current regime and having a go at barstoolers. Its a tiring game!

Prob just better off accepting and enjoying LOI football for what it is!

Anyway, the main stumbling block to LOI "progression" is the fact that people see English football as the default league of sorts.

Simple as that - when people think football, they think Man United, Liverpool etc. And you cannot blame these people - after all, every time they open up a newspaper or turn on the TV, that is what they see.

For the LOI to grow and progress in a manner that a lot of fans on here seem to want - LOI football has to be seen in a more natural light, i.e. it has to become ingrained in the public psyche in a way similar to that seen of the English Premiership. It has to get in the 'papers, regularly get on the back page (for the right reason) and attract genuine big name players that people will take notice of.

Aesthetics is also a big thing - I mean, the Australian A League is arguably a lower standard of football than the LOI, but it is played in impressive stadiums every week and it looks good on the TV. The same cannot be said of the Brandywell, the Showgrounds, Finn Park etc.

But all that aside....just enjoy the LOI for what it is!

This.

There is a reason why if you say you support a LOI team/or even any non-English team be that Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus) that people say 'how did you end up supporting them' followed by a giggle.

The way media coverage is in this country it is made out that English football represents us. Look at the CL for **** sake, every single damn year on RTE they show the same teams again and again and again with the same things said year after year.

Look at when people who say for instance. ''Damien Duff would do well from playing abroad' FFS he is abroad. Its a cultural thing really, look at all the Irish players playing in England. Can any other nation claim that their whole squad plays in the same foreign country?* Wales maby? :confused:

I really would love to know what its like in Norway or , a country with similar fascination with English football(anyone live there?) but tbh I think the Irish are more in the Chinese or other Asian version of football fans. Actually anybody know what Scotland is like? Do they have interest in English football? I remember watching Aberdeen vs Barcelona last year, Barcelona vs cheered, here we support the irish against the damn foreigners but 2500 show up to support newcastle? wtf

*I always make this point so sorry if you read it before :) *

[pineapple stu]

There is a national interest here (not just sporting) -the tens of millions being spent by Irish people on the premiership and english leagues (replica jerseys, trips, subscriptions etc) is going straight out of the country and not coming back.
Not entirely true, unfortunately. The pub industry is very much helped by football on the telly, travel agents, the airlines and the ferry companies make a fortune out of barstoolers going to England every week, the TV stations presumably make profits on their English TV shows once advertising revenue is taken into account and sports shops take profit on merchandise sold (and the Government gets tax on that too).

All told, foreign football is a rather lucrative business here.


I really would love to know what its like in Norway, a country with similar fascination with English football(anyone live there?)
I was there for the Ireland game last year. Was drinking with a few locals, who were singing "Steve Gerrard Gerrard, he scores from forty yards" out loud in the pub. But when I asked them who they supported in Norway, every one of them had a local team that they followed too.

[NeilMcD]

I was thinking about how we could ever get soccer fans in Ireland (note -not Irish soccer fans :D) to support our league again.

We could ban coverage of the Premiership -but that would be difficult.

However, given the government's need to raise extra revenue, we could add a levy to satellite TV subscriptions (perhaps a percentage -so that those with Sky Sports would pay more :)). This could then be directed back into the league here (via grants).

There is a national interest here (not just sporting) -the tens of millions being spent by Irish people on the premiership and english leagues (replica jerseys, trips, subscriptions etc) is going straight out of the country and not coming back.

Of course all this is fairly radical, but if we had a sneaky minister for finance (it is FF after all!) then it could be done (he could be wearing a Bohs or Rovers jersey under his shirt or something for all we know!).


Not sure any of those proposals would pass EU law.

[Duggie]

I really would love to know what its like in Norway, a country with similar fascination with English football(anyone live there?) but tbh I think the Irish are more in the Chinese or other Asian version of football fans.

few things about scandinavian countries.
1. not as many of there players would be in England as ourselves
2. id imagine not as many people would be able to view the PL as here. it may not be as widely available to homes as here ??
3. facilities are light years ahead of us. most wouldnt be out of place in england. most of there stadiums are class.
4. would have better players and prob a higher standard than us overall. that may attract more to games.
5. they dont let there players go for pittance thus earn more money from deals.
6. long culture of picking home based players in the national sides.

[dcfcsteve]

An unworkable suggestion I'm afraid.

I think the law wouild have something to say about picking on TV that is broadcasted through one medium only - let alone then using it to cross-subsidise only one sport,

And if satellite prices went up because of something like this, everyone would just switch to cable instead as it's cheaper. So you'd just p!ss off most of the country and every non-LOI sports fan, and see very little income.

I don't know what's in the air today, but there seems to be a rash of hat-stand panaceas for the league's woes being aired at the moment ! :eek:

[pineapple stu]

2. id imagine not as many people would be able to view the PL as here. it may not be as widely available to homes as here ??
The Premiership is almost as popular in Norway as it is here, from my experience.


facilities are light years ahead of us. most wouldnt be out of place in england. most of there stadiums are class.
The grounds are good, but the "Build it and they will come" maxim has long been debunked here, I think.

Ultimately, though, the Norwegian league benefits from the mentality that means Norwegians will follow their local teams. Probably a bit of this comes from the large youth structure that exists, whereas in Ireland, we seem to have separation between youth football clubs, non-league football clubs and league football clubs. If you joined, say, Cork City at age 7 and played for them up to 18, it's easy to see how you might end up a Cork City fan.


I don't know what's in the air today, but there seems to be a rash of hat-stand panaceas for the league's woes being aired at the moment ! :eek:
Remind me how many times have you loudly proposed or defended an AIL as crucial to football in this country?

[dcfcsteve]

Remind me how many times have you loudly proposed or defended an AIL as crucial to football in this country?

Seems you've been sucking-in the same crazy air if you think an AIL league concept that had a financial backer can be directly compared to notions of breaking the law by charging sateliite viewers to cross-subsidise domestic soccer, or setting-up a provincial structure to a club-based urban game... :o

These are crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy nights....

[peadar1987]

I don't know what's in the air today, but there seems to be a rash of hat-stand panaceas for the league's woes being aired at the moment ! :eek:

At a guess it'll be the events at Dalymount last night. Let's hope the lads in action tonight can spark off a series of threads about how everything is grand!




The separation between youth and senior football here is a major problem, and one that can be easily addressed. Bray's partnership with local schoolboy club St. Joseph's is working very well, and we're getting a rake of young supporters into the games. Don't underestimate the number of people one person can bring into a club. One lad in my primary school had a brother who had a trial at Pat's in the mid 90s, and even from that tenuous connection Pat's gained about 5 supporters from my class of 20. We're never going to compete with the English game on quality, so in my opinion, the clubs really have to forge very strong links with the local community.

It's already been said that the Nordic countries have huge support for the English Premiership, but that they support their national game as well. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't try to aim for the same model. I don't mind seeing English shirts at the Carlisle Grounds, because at least they're at the Carlisle Grounds!

[Duggie]

The Premiership is almost as popular in Norway as it is here, from my experience.

oh ya i know but i was just wondering that it mightnt be available in homes as easily as here. like most people here have sky.


The grounds are good, but the "Build it and they will come" maxim has long been debunked here, I think.

i have always firmly believed if we had proper stadiums in LOI more people will turn out.

[pineapple stu]

i have always firmly believed if we had proper stadiums in LOI more people will turn out.
Don't think so. Look at the dump Leinster were playing in when their bandwagon took off, for example. Barstoolers are only interested in the absolute best players, which the LoI simply can't afford. Ever.


Seems you've been sucking-in the same crazy air if you think an AIL league concept that had a financial backer can be directly compared to notions of breaking the law by charging sateliite viewers to cross-subsidise domestic soccer, or setting-up a provincial structure to a club-based urban game...
Given your only criterion was "hat-stand panaceas for the league's woes", then yes, they can be directly compared.

[joema]

This.
Can any other nation claim that their whole squad plays in the same foreign country?* Wales maby? :confused:

Senegal played and beat France in the 2002 World Cup. The entire Senegalese squad played in France at the time.

[irishultra]

Deadly :p

[Umberside]

The reason why we're not like Norway is:

:We (most of us) live something like just 80 miles away from the British coast whereas Norway is further.

:We are wealthier than Norway, so we can travel more and spend more.

:We've never had a team in the Champions League group stages. Rosenborg have made it into the group stages a good few times.

:The stadia in Norway are far better. A quick glance on Wikipedia and the average stadium in Norway is a 14,000 all-seater stadium. The only stadium here that could have 14,000 seats is Tallaght.

Overall the infrastructure in the Norwegian Premier League is much better than the LOI.

The comparison is non-existent.

[irishultra]

The reason why we're not like Norway is:

:We (most of us) live something like just 80 miles away from the British coast whereas Norway is further.

:We are wealthier than Norway, so we can travel more and spend more.

:We've never had a team in the Champions League group stages. Rosenborg have made it into the group stages a good few times.

:The stadia in Norway are far better. A quick glance on Wikipedia and the average stadium in Norway is a 14,000 all-seater stadium. The only stadium here that could have 14,000 seats is Tallaght.

Overall the infrastructure in the Norwegian Premier League is much better than the LOI.

The comparison is non-existent.

what?

[Umberside]

what?

Our GDP is higher, that means we are wealthier (though it's not the best comparison, Norway is wealthy too:o).

[peadar1987]

The reason why we're not like Norway is:

:We (most of us) live something like just 80 miles away from the British coast whereas Norway is further.

:We are wealthier than Norway, so we can travel more and spend more.

:We've never had a team in the Champions League group stages. Rosenborg have made it into the group stages a good few times.

:The stadia in Norway are far better. A quick glance on Wikipedia and the average stadium in Norway is a 14,000 all-seater stadium. The only stadium here that could have 14,000 seats is Tallaght.

Overall the infrastructure in the Norwegian Premier League is much better than the LOI.

The comparison is non-existent.

Points noted, but on the contrary:

-Most people in Norway support a British team anyway, the fact is they support their local teams as well. This should have nothing to do with how close they are to the league.

-Norway is actually a very wealthy country, and the wealth is spread better than in Ireland. There are fewer fabulously rich people in Norway, but fewer very poor people as well. There should be more people able to afford to travel in Norway, especially to Germany to see the Bundesliga, yet they don't

-Rosenborg won something like 14 back-to-back titles. This must have been unbelievably boring, yet crowds for other clubs were still averaging over 8 000. We have a far more open and exciting league than Norway did during this period, so potentially a better product.

-I'll concede their grounds are better, but the seats in the Carlisle Grounds are just as comfortable as the seats in Old Trafford, the Britannia Stadium or the Phillips Stadion. Supporters come to watch the match, and the amount of time they spend in the toilets or at a bar is pretty negligible in comparison.

[eamo1]

Another-how we should fix the LOI thread,is it that time of the week already???

[pineapple stu]

And also, Norway's fairly close to England.

Curiously, I think crowds doubled across the league in the period Rosenborg were winning 14 titles in a row.

[Thommo]

A friend of mine had this idea:

The FAI should invest money into an academy somewhere to give young talent the chance to shine – similar to Lilleshall in England. The FAI should try and bring as much talent through this academy as possible.

Once they reach a certain age, they should commit themselves to the FAI. For example, let’s say that once they turn 16, they can only remain at the academy if they sign a 5-year deal with them, effective from their 18th birthdays.

Once they reach 20, they can then be loaned to League of Ireland teams (and I’d like that to work like the draft pick system in America, where the team finishing bottom has first pick, the second bottom team the second pick, etc., so that the worse teams get better faster than the better teams, which will allow for more closely matched teams). If, at any time before they reach 23, Premier League or Football League teams are interested in buying any of those players, they can negotiate with the owners of the players (i.e. the FAI).

This would mean that all talented Irish youngsters would get state-of-the-art training facilities and coaching in Ireland. If they’re good enough to go to England, the FAI will receive the money from the deal – instead of cash-strapped clubs who would accept any offer to try and balance the books – and the clubs get the benefit of the best youngsters remaining in Ireland and playing for their clubs till at least the age of 23.

[Thommo]

Oh **** not sure what happened there:confused:

[pineapple stu]

Just edit it and take out the []s.

[ger121]

Don't think so. Look at the dump Leinster were playing in when their bandwagon took off, for example. Barstoolers are only interested in the absolute best players, which the LoI simply can't afford. Ever.


Given your only criterion was "hat-stand panaceas for the league's woes", then yes, they can be directly compared.


I've never bought into the facilities arguement either. Donnybrook, Thomond Pk (before it was rebuilt) and the RDS are not great stadia. Same goes for a lot of the GAA stadiums. Lets say one of the LOI teams became an anchor tenant in the new Lansdowne Rd, do many people really believe, that alone would result in a sudden large increase in attendances. I for one would seriously doubt it.

[dong]

I've never bought into the facilities arguement either. Donnybrook, Thomond Pk (before it was rebuilt) and the RDS are not great stadia. Same goes for a lot of the GAA stadiums. Lets say one of the LOI teams became an anchor tenant in the new Lansdowne Rd, do many people really believe, that alone would result in a sudden large increase in attendances. I for one would seriously doubt it.

I agree but the standard of grounds could be improved a bit.I don't think there's any real solution. It's been debated to death.

[mr.untitled]

Our GDP is higher, that means we are wealthier (though it's not the best comparison, Norway is wealthy too:o).

this made me fall off my chair in tears of laughter
thanks mate

[Thommo]

Right take two!
A friend of mine had this idea:

The FAI should invest money into an academy somewhere to give young talent the chance to shine – similar to Lilleshall in England. The FAI should try and bring as much talent through this academy as possible.
Once they reach a certain age, they should commit themselves to the FAI. For example, let’s say that once they turn 16, they can only remain at the academy if they sign a 5-year deal with them, effective from their 18th birthdays.
Once they reach 20, they can then be loaned to League of Ireland teams (and I’d like that to work like the draft pick system in America, where the team finishing bottom has first pick, the second bottom team the second pick, etc., so that the worse teams get better faster than the better teams, which will allow for more closely matched teams). If, at any time before they reach 23, Premier League or Football League teams are interested in buying any of those players, they can negotiate with the owners of the players (i.e. the FAI).This would mean that all talented Irish youngsters would get state-of-the-art training facilities and coaching in Ireland. If they’re good enough to go to England, the FAI will receive the money from the deal – instead of cash-strapped clubs who would accept any offer to try and balance the books – and the clubs get the benefit of the best youngsters remaining in Ireland and playing for their clubs till at least the age of 23.

[dcfcsteve]

Given your only criterion was "hat-stand panaceas for the league's woes", then yes, they can be directly compared.

Look PS - we all know you don't like the AIL concept. That's fine - and as a UCD fan, it's understandable.

So please stop boring everyone by coat-trailing your dislike of it at every opportunity. You're misguided (for benefit of Da Hamsta) if you think a league proposal with a backer is the same as proposals that are against the law.

You may not like the AIL proposal - but it wasn't illegal, it did have a backer, and most importantly it may well have worked. It's simply your opinion that it wouldn't. A levy on satellite consumers is clearly illegal and whether it would work or not therefore isn't down to opinion.

[peadar1987]

Right take two!
A friend of mine had this idea:

The FAI should invest money into an academy somewhere to give young talent the chance to shine – similar to Lilleshall in England. The FAI should try and bring as much talent through this academy as possible.
Once they reach a certain age, they should commit themselves to the FAI. For example, let’s say that once they turn 16, they can only remain at the academy if they sign a 5-year deal with them, effective from their 18th birthdays.
Once they reach 20, they can then be loaned to League of Ireland teams (and I’d like that to work like the draft pick system in America, where the team finishing bottom has first pick, the second bottom team the second pick, etc., so that the worse teams get better faster than the better teams, which will allow for more closely matched teams). If, at any time before they reach 23, Premier League or Football League teams are interested in buying any of those players, they can negotiate with the owners of the players (i.e. the FAI).This would mean that all talented Irish youngsters would get state-of-the-art training facilities and coaching in Ireland. If they’re good enough to go to England, the FAI will receive the money from the deal – instead of cash-strapped clubs who would accept any offer to try and balance the books – and the clubs get the benefit of the best youngsters remaining in Ireland and playing for their clubs till at least the age of 23.

We had a big discussion on this a while back, here's the link: http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=117289

[MeathDrog]

Irish papers reporting on Irish soccer and Irish soccer only would be a start.

[brianw82]

How about provincial clubs? Connacht Rovers, Munster United, Sporting Shelgallians....... what's not to like?

[RoversHead]

Our GDP is higher, that means we are wealthier
a comparison of schools and hospitals and other infrastructure including football stadia would suggest not.

[Schumi]

Sporting Shelgallians

I read this as "Sporting Shenanigans", great name for a team. :D

[passinginterest]

Gas chambers?

[First]

Irish papers reporting on Irish soccer and Irish soccer only would be a start.

And what else would you like censored.

[brianw82]

Gas chambers?

Is that Gary's new nickname? :D

[peadar1987]

And what else would you like censored.

Sinn Féin

[Newryrep]

this made me fall off my chair in tears of laughter
thanks mate

:)Have to agree, Norway wisely invested it oil revenue moneys and so it now alegedgy earns more from the interest than from the actual oil (whereas Ireland ****ed everything it had earned up against a wall and so have feck all to show for it)