View Full Version : How does the FAI plan to get all clubs debt free?
.... how the FAI's plan to get all clubs debt free within the nest few years is looking :o
I don't remember the league ever being in a worse state, and let's face it, it's usually pretty fecked.
So where to from here? Ever stricter regulation to save the clubs from themselves? Further structural changes? Back to winter football? (which I've heard a majority of clubs now favour). Free lollypops at games? All of the above?
Personally I think some way has to be found to make directors of clubs more accountable for their decisions. Ideally, they should be barred from positions of authority if their club makes serious losses and even held personally liable for it. Transparency and responsibility at each club is the only way to get the league moving forward. How can it be achieved though?
pineapple stu
15/07/2009, 11:12 AM
I still don't see a problem with my earlier suggestion of penalties for missing P30 payment deadlines. Get on top of potential problems as soon as possible. Let's face it - any club who's gone bang in the past few years has early on started not paying Revenue.
Ezeikial
15/07/2009, 1:57 PM
I still don't see a problem with my earlier suggestion of penalties for missing P30 payment deadlines. Get on top of potential problems as soon as possible. Let's face it - any club who's gone bang in the past few years has early on started not paying Revenue.
Is this the same suggestion as recently adopted by the Football League in the UK?
SMorgan
15/07/2009, 2:07 PM
very easy really. The FAI wıll do what ıt always does. It wıll redefıne the word 'debt' to a meanıng that suıts ıtself.
How ın the name of goodness can so many club be ın crısıs ıf they are keepıng to a 65% wage cap. And ıf the clubs are not, what are the FAI goıng to do about ıt?
pineapple stu
15/07/2009, 2:09 PM
Is this the same suggestion as recently adopted by the Football League in the UK?
I saw they'd done something similar, if not identical, alright. But I thought of it first. :p
Sam_Heggy
15/07/2009, 2:16 PM
1. Equal treatment for all clubs.
2. Severe punishment for clubs over the 65%
3. More promotion of the League (MNS is good but more is needed)
4. Lollipops sound good
A return to winter football might actually help with crowds, but, if you look at the GAA at the minute, the championship crowds are very low as opposed to other years, maybe people are not getting off their arses in general around the country.
I know atmosphere and crowds were better during the winter football but the state of pitches were, oh wait, on reflection scratch that.
Can't beat the Christmas fixtures though.
So torn.
Ronnie
15/07/2009, 2:25 PM
As Stu suggested this would be a good next step. Although you have to remember a sanction may not be dramatic ala Rovers, Cobh etc, it might be a transfer embargo, which to fans can seem like a joke, but it goes up from there.
The bigger question remains the whole trunover/income/expenditure issue. From what you see on this forum wages do seem to have come down, not that long ago we had rumours of guys on 200k pa and plenty earning between 100-150k. That seems to have fallen back to the 70-80k for the highest earners. Thats a good start, but thats all.
A full time club with a staff of say 20 people earning an average of 50k pa probably needs around 1.5m to break even. In these difficult days, hard to see how many could earn that amount in a year. Even the best supported club, say averaging 2500 per home game with 20 games at €10 average would only be a third of the way there.
It does seem still that wages is the main problem and until thats addressed unlikely that other fundamentals can be addressed.
So where to from here? Ever stricter regulation to save the clubs from themselves? Further structural changes? Back to winter football? (which I've heard a majority of clubs now favour).
We could come up with this great system, where clubs have to send in budgets to be approved and there is ongoing oversight to make sure clubs are sticking to that budget on both the expenditure and income side. Even the FAI couldn't complete fook up something like that...
I think structual changes are inevitable if Bohs, Cork and Derry are in such serious trouble, as it leaves the 10 Team Fully Pro plan in total tatters. I could see it as the premier and the A as the two divisions, and that'd give them the fudge on relegating big teams.
Summer football hasn't worked. A winter season probably won't improve things much, but imo it will have some effect in bringing back some fans.
Kildareman
15/07/2009, 6:20 PM
If the FAI were advised directly by Revenue when clubs were in difficulty would it help the situation? Or is this being done already?
If the FAI were advised directly by Revenue when clubs were in difficulty would it help the situation? Or is this being done already?
Well loads of clubs could be in trouble but still pay their taxes
Kildareman
15/07/2009, 6:30 PM
Well loads of clubs could be in trouble but still pay their taxes
But arent the may concerns Revenue and wages.
If the Revenue put up an early warning and with the PFAI looking after the players wage situation then maybe some sort of action could be taken before the problem becomes a crisis.
Philly
15/07/2009, 10:16 PM
Why should it be up to the FAI to get clubs debt-free?
Debt isn't a bad things anyway, it can help clubs advance if used right and managed well. It's this "blame it on the FAI" and "the FAI should fix it" attitude that has the League where it is. The FAI facilitate the League in many ways and manage the media aspect of it reasonably well. It is not their job to babysit every club when it comes to money issues. Clubs are responsible to themselves, and if they fail to meet the fairly low standard set by the FAI, they should be punished. It's not the FAI's fault if they fail to meet standards, it's the club's. It's their responsibility.
That is all. :)
KianD
15/07/2009, 10:20 PM
very easy really. The FAI wıll do what ıt always does. It wıll redefıne the word 'debt' to a meanıng that suıts ıtself.
How ın the name of goodness can so many club be ın crısıs ıf they are keepıng to a 65% wage cap. And ıf the clubs are not, what are the FAI goıng to do about ıt?
This is entirely off-topic, but why are you using a dotless-i, like the Irish language placenames on roadsigns here?
I agree Philly, the alteration to my original title changed the gist of what I was saying a bit.
I think the FAI do have a role- but ultimately progress has to come from a more progressive attitude and less short-term approach from the clubs themselves.
Debt isn't a bad things anyway, it can help clubs advance if used right and managed well. It's this "blame it on the FAI" and "the FAI should fix it" attitude that has the League where it is. The FAI facilitate the League in many ways and manage the media aspect of it reasonably well. It is not their job to babysit every club when it comes to money issues. Clubs are responsible to themselves, and if they fail to meet the fairly low standard set by the FAI, they should be punished. It's not the FAI's fault if they fail to meet standards, it's the club's. It's their responsibility.
So why bother with Licencing at all? Luckily for those that share your opinion, it appears the FAI couldn't give a rats ass about implementing licencing either.
Philly
16/07/2009, 7:49 AM
So why bother with Licencing at all? Luckily for those that share your opinion, it appears the FAI couldn't give a rats ass about implementing licencing either.
Licencing is about setting a minumum standard clubs have to meet, not about managing each clubs individual finances and telling them what to do. Each club is a seperate legal entity, with a seperate board and all that, so they are responsible for themselves. The FAI don't run the clubs, they run the League.
Licencing is about setting a minumum standard clubs have to meet, not about managing each clubs individual finances and telling them what to do. Each club is a seperate legal entity, with a seperate board and all that, so they are responsible for themselves. The FAI don't run the clubs, they run the League.
So why did some clubs have their proposed budgets rejected, why have the 65% wage cap and the associated ongoing oversight to see how clubs are doing with regard to it, and why (for what they've turned out to be worth) get written guarantee's on outside investment from benefactors?
The FAI have the system in place, they just have to properly implement it. They've failed the entire life of licencing. You give them credit for the media side, but their failure to implement licencing which allows clubs to get into trouble despite their supposed oversight, negates all the positives.
The FAI cannot force a budget on a club, several ignored the FAI's warnings at the start of the year and carried on regardless.
I agree that they need to up their game on the licensing front, but until the attitude of club directors changes they will always find a way to balls themselves up no matter what the FAI say or do.
pineapple stu
16/07/2009, 8:38 AM
Why should it be up to the FAI to get clubs debt-free?
While obviously I agree that it's up to clubs to cop onto themselves, so many are so utterly incompetently run that they need some tough love from an authority that can wield some power over them. That can only be the FAI. So while, ultimately, Cork (for example) have only themselves to blame, for the sake of the league, the FAI should be trying to stop this kind of stuff happening. It's how I imagine being a teacher at a special school must feel like.
The FAI cannot force a budget on a club, several ignored the FAI's warnings at the start of the year and carried on regardless.
They can refuse the licence, so actually they can!
I don't think there are any licensing rules on the setting of budgets. There are rules like the wage cap that can be applied retrospectively, but I'm not aware of anything with regard to budgeting.
Like I say- I generally agree that the FAI need a to assume a greater role and need to be a lot tougher.
But clubs are always likely to comply with the letter of licensing rather than the spirit of it until such time as there is a true sea change in attitudes.
thischarmingman
16/07/2009, 10:35 AM
It's how I imagine being a teacher at a special school must feel like.
Ralph: Miss Hoover, My worm crawled into my mouth so I ate him, can I have another one?
Miss Hoover: There are no more worms Ralph, just put your head on your desk and go to sleep.
Ralph: Sleep, YAY! I like sleep, thats where I'm a pirate!
.....
I don't think there are any licensing rules on the setting of budgets. There are rules like the wage cap that can be applied retrospectively, but I'm not aware of anything with regard to budgeting.
It could be a lack of sleep causing my mind to play tricks on me, but I thought several clubs had budgets rejected this season and were told to come back with revised budgets. Last season they wanted guarantee's (non-binding naturally) from benefactors if they were putting money in to support the budget. My understanding was that this was under the financial aspects of Licencing.
Yeah, the FAI looked at budgets, but ultimately clubs could choose to ignore that. Several did. One would assume that this is likely to catch up with them at some point.
Yeah, the FAI looked at budgets, but ultimately clubs could choose to ignore that. Several did. One would assume that this is likely to catch up with them at some point.
I thought it was compulsory, hence the back and forth with Sligo. However, if you're right, a simple change to make the approval of budgets part of the licence would be an immediate improvement. Any benefactor "donations" that make up part of the budget should be made as a bond held by the FAI (which can be released through out the season direct to the club).
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