Derry's turn

[pineapple stu]

Thing is, they have all of this month to release players and get back under 65%, knowing that their sponsor is gone. If they deliberately keep all their players and end up over 65%, having had a good chance to reduce wages, should they be punished?

Also, don't forget the sponsor pulling out hasn't landed Derry in sudden trouble. They were sailing close to the wind last season (transfer fee problems), and the McCourt sale kept them above water.

[EalingGreen]

Our sponsorship deal with Meteor was huge. What's the point of getting a good deal on sponsorship if the money can't be used? Undoubtedly the Derry board have dropped the ball a bit. Too much spent on trips away and wages. I don't think we are breaking the 65% rule though - there's be no word about an embargo for us.

I can't remember the exact figures involved, but Meteor were due to give us a massive amount of money (was it £1million over 3 years?). We budgeted on the basis of receiving that money.

If you are correct about the amount of Meteor's sponsorship, how does that make them any different eg clubs which have been relying on a wealthy benefactor (who could pull out at any time), or the future sale of a ground (which could fall victim to recession or planning restrictions etc)?

In the end, it is foolish to put "all your eggs in one basket", if you have no real way of knowing whether the basket is sound, or if the arse is going to fall out of it some day.

All of which calls to mind an article I read about Liverpool's glory days in the 70's and 80's etc. Admittedly, the sums and complexities involved in the management of a big club's finances were considerably less demanding in those days.
Nonetheless, every season they used to budget to cover their costs solely by 21 home League games, one* home League Cup tie, one** home European tie (when they qualified) and one FA Cup 3rd Round tie, which might be away from home.
Everything else was treated as a "bonus", so that if (when, actually!) they made a profit at the end of the season, they spent virtually all of it on new players for next season (i.e. as a tax write-off).

* - It was 2-leg then
** - It was knockout from Round One in those days

[pineapple stu]

Nonetheless, every season they used to budget to cover their costs solely by 21 home League games, one* home League Cup tie, one** home European tie (when they qualified) and one FA Cup 3rd Round tie, which might be away from home.
Could probably argue all clubs should be forced to budget that way (I know we do).

[Schumi]

Could probably argue all clubs should be forced to budget that way (I know we do).

Only budget to spend gate receipts? I highly doubt it.

[Macy]

Could probably argue all clubs should be forced to budget that way (I know we do).
They certainly should for their match day revenue side anyway, and if the licencing committee that oversaw the budgets allowed them to do it on any other basis they shouldn't be in place.


For me if (and I know its an if) Derry break the 65% rule and if (again an if) it is solely down to the sponsor pulling out - the imo they shouldnt be relegated.
But they're saying that they won't be even able to make the wage bill at all, so if it was solely down to that then the sponsorship would've been over 35% of the forecast turnover (and significantly more judging by the coverage).

[pineapple stu]

Only budget to spend gate receipts? I highly doubt it.

I assume sponsorship, fundraisers, etc, were included. Just re-read the post and it doesn't specify alright.

The only gate receipts we budget for are the games we're guaranteed. The only prize money we budget for is the lowest we can receive. Makes sense.

[Mr A]

I really didn't think the Meteor deal was anything like that big.. how could a small company with only 70 employees provide that level of support? No wonder they went under!

[Schumi]

I assume sponsorship, fundraisers, etc, were included. Just re-read the post and it doesn't specify alright.

The only gate receipts we budget for are the games we're guaranteed. The only prize money we budget for is the lowest we can receive. Makes sense.

That makes sense alright. It's probably too much to hope that most pre-season budget projections were based on that though.

[pól-dcfc]

I really didn't think the Meteor deal was anything like that big.. how could a small company with only 70 employees provide that level of support? No wonder they went under!

I'm not 100% sure on the figures. The £1million is purely from my (admittedly hazy) memory. It may have been less. But I do remember thinking that it was a hell of a lot of money for an LoI club to get in sponsorship.

[Macy]

It's probably too much to hope that most pre-season budget projections were based on that though.
Not when they had to be submitted and scrutinised as part of the Licencing process it's not.

[MariborKev]

I can't remember the exact figures involved, but Meteor were due to give us a massive amount of money (was it £1million over 3 years?). We budgeted on the basis of receiving that money.

Sorry, just been on the floor for the last hour laughing at that statement. Not a hope it was even 6 figures, never mind 7.

[EalingGreen]

Sorry, just been on the floor for the last hour laughing at that statement. Not a hope it was even 6 figures, never mind 7.
Assuming you are correct, Maribor, doesn't that make Derry's plight even more serious?

That is, if they are left struggling by the collapse of a five figure sponsorship deal, then the rest of the Balance Sheet can't have been too healthy.

[pól-dcfc]

Sorry, just been on the floor for the last hour laughing at that statement. Not a hope it was even 6 figures, never mind 7.

Was it not a record amount at the time? As I say, I'm just going on my hazy memory, but surely it was well above £100,000. We auctioned off the sponsorship for the rest of this season for £50,000, and I assumed this was a massive drop from what we were originally bargaining for. 3 x £50,000 is already over 6 figures.

I'd assume I'm wrong on the £1mill if your saying it Kev, but surely it was at least a six figure sum?

[MariborKev]

EG,

I think the sponsor may have been a covenient excuse to shed light on the difficulties. As stated, anyone with a bit of sense could see 6 months ago that a sponsor in the construction industry might be in trouble. Derry were aware of the fact several months ago, but didn't secure an alternative sponsor.

The BS is far from healthy(trawl on NI Companies House will give you the accounts). We only have accounts to Y.E 2007, and the AGM we were promised for early season has failed to materialise.

We had the Finance Director and CEO resign since the start of the year, draw your own conclusions.

Bear in mind that in the last that we sold two players to Celtic, one to Kilmarnock, one to the Blues(£25k), finished 3rd in the League and got to the Cup Final. We also had a Draw which raised £100k profit and as others have noted, we were sailing close to wind anyway. AFAIK the case from Dungannon Swifts is still outstanding, and talk that Robertson is taking us to an employment tribunal.

[Ezeikial]

Where does the victory over Skonto Riga now leave Derry as regards this seasons financial commitments?

Obviously the position is improved compared with the earlier "grim warning that defeat against Skonto Riga over boths legs of the Europa League tie, will result in the Brandywell club failing to meet its financial commitments for the end of the season".

Has the danger passed for the moment, or are we likely to hear further "do-or-die" reports?

[MariborKev]

Has the danger passed for the moment, or are we likely to hear further "do-or-die" reports?

We will hear further reports.

[OneRedArmy]

Where does the victory over Skonto Riga now leave Derry as regards this seasons financial commitments?

Obviously the position is improved compared with the earlier "grim warning that defeat against Skonto Riga over boths legs of the Europa League tie, will result in the Brandywell club failing to meet its financial commitments for the end of the season".

Has the danger passed for the moment, or are we likely to hear further "do-or-die" reports?If rmours are true that we've already drawn down the European money as an advance from the FAI (as UEFA won't distribute til June 2010) then all we are doing is continuing to double down hoping we'll eventually hit 21.

It's a complete myth that Europe (at least in the pre-league stages) is profitable. If you have a bit left over from covering your costs you're doing well. TV money only comes into it if you draw an English or German side. We had to sell the PSG tickets at £25 to breakeven.

[Duggie]

If rmours are true that we've already drawn down the European money as an advance from the FAI (as UEFA won't distribute til June 2010) then all we are doing is continuing to double down hoping we'll eventually hit 21.

It's a complete myth that Europe (at least in the pre-league stages) is profitable. If you have a bit left over from covering your costs you're doing well. TV money only comes into it if you draw an English or German side. We had to sell the PSG tickets at £25 to breakeven.

well with the lack of seats at our grounds that dosent help either with small crowds. as you say with costs from going to the away leg it prob dosent leave much over. still the further you get the more you make so thats the incentive.

say pats max capacity is around 3000
the showgrounds was only 2700

[eamo1]

Dont Uefa compensate teams in the qualiyfing rounds for away trips???Giving them a few grand for flights,hotels etc.Thats what i heard anyway.

[Duggie]

Dont Uefa compensate teams in the qualiyfing rounds for away trips???Giving them a few grand for flights,hotels etc.Thats what i heard anyway.

i thought u get your money from each round and its up to yourself after that. maybe im wrong.