Calling anyone that edits on wikipedia or who has good sources of information!

[sligobhoy67]

maybe if anyone has any further information on the Stephen Roche (the UCD one) they could add it to it to help improve it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Roche_(football)

that link is incorrect.

here is the correct one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Stephen_Roche_(football)

it really needs some input within the next 24 hours.

[passinginterest]

Things really took off today after I left that comment about a lack of understanding of the league of Ireland. I didn't think it'd have that much impact. My argument is that the League of Ireland is a fully professional league, regardless of wheter all the teams or players are full time professionals.

[Fribbler]

If anyone wants copies of articles which have been deleted (in order to make them delete-proof by referencing or for setting up an LOI "Wikia" wiki), message me here or at Wikipedia (same username) and I can give you the deleted text.

[sligobhoy67]

What I would urge is that everyone registers and account. We may not all have the same opinions and that his healthy but we need more Irish football fans registered.

It only takes seconds and if free.

[Umberside]

We lost Stephen Roche by a mere 8-7. Incidentally it had been 7-1 so thanks to those who voted. New users are needed immediately though, we just lost our most valuable member:(

[Fribbler]

We lost Stephen Roche by a mere 8-7. Incidentally it had been 7-1 so thanks to those who voted. New users are needed immediately though, we just lost our most valuable member:(
You can attempt to overturn a deletion here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Drv

Hmmmm; seems my colon+capital D has become a smiley, still works though.

[Umberside]

I think I'll leave it go, I'd only request for a reversal of the decision if sligobhoy67 was still operating on it.

I'll focus on improving the existing articles instead in the hope the AfDs will become a thing of the past.

[TheBoss]

If Wikipedia nerds want to go around looking to delete League of Ireland players, than let them, we should setup are own site to cover it, its the only way for it to be solved.

[Dunny]

Anyone seen Sean Prunty's page....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Prunty

[Réiteoir]

Anyone seen Sean Prunty's page....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Prunty

I've managed to revert those idiotic edits so the page is as it should be

[Acornvilla]

good man! theres such ****s out there

[Longfordian]

Except he was born in Dublin and only moved to Longford at 8 or 9 I think but that's a minor enough point.

[Acornvilla]

I've managed to revert those idiotic edits so the page is as it should be
i finally found out what your location ment!!

[Réiteoir]

i finally found out what your location ment!!

It's a great little story behind it involving several SMS Messages, an ex-Premiership footballer and that phrase

[Gareth]

One thing that might help is we (Extratime) interview players and we will be increasing the number of them we will be doing. These links could help in providing references on the wiki page and increasing the players keepability on the site?

[TheBoss]

Since the site lost the post the last time, here was the link to a site we can update the LOI on, each user votes on each edit to verify that the add or edit is a correct one, a bit slow to update as a result of user votes:

http://en.soccerwiki.org/wiki.php

[gufcfan]

Since the site lost the post the last time, here was the link to a site we can update the LOI on, each user votes on each edit to verify that the add or edit is a correct one, a bit slow to update as a result of user votes:

http://en.soccerwiki.org/wiki.php
Dunno about that site. Doesn't seem great.

Soccerway will have somebody doing the LOI from this season onwards apparently. http://development.soccerway.com/national/ireland-republic/premier-league/2012/regular-season/

Doesn't look up to date at the moment, although the fixtures for 2012 seem to be in.

[culloty82]

Whoever's started the 2012 League of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_League_of_Ireland) page on Wikipedia seems to be a regular here - all the info's bang up to date.

[adamd164]

Tallaght doesn't have a capacity of 8513 - unless they made that extra stand permanent?

[horton]

Whoever's started the 2012 League of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_League_of_Ireland) page on Wikipedia seems to be a regular here - all the info's bang up to date.
You've made some changes to that page yourself:p

[freewheel30]

Noticed a few weeks ago that the Alan Murphy page (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alan_Murphy_(footballer_born_1981)&action=edit&redlink=1) had been removed as he had never played in a fully professional league. Surprised the guy didn't just go ahead and delete the entire category in that case.

Them deletionists be crazy. I guess though that the more articles the site has means the more donation appeal banners that get put up from Jimmy Wales and his pals.

[born2bwild]

Whoever's started the 2012 League of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_League_of_Ireland) page on Wikipedia seems to be a regular here - all the info's bang up to date.
According to this Mervue play at Terryland Park.
Anyone else not get that memo?

[culloty82]

You've made some changes to that page yourself:p

Ah no, I just stuck the links up here, so it was up to the guy to check them out, did fix some of the things mentioned here though.

[nigel-harps1954]

Tallaght doesn't have a capacity of 8513 - unless they made that extra stand permanent?

I think quite a lot of those capacity stats are a bit off..

Brandywell holds a lot more than 3,000. The day anyone sees 5,620 crammed in Gortakeegan is a day to behold. Lissywollen wouldn't hold 5,000 yet would it? RSC must hold more than 3,000. I'm confused by whoever made those stats.

[stann]

RSC seats a smidge under 3000, we got 4,500-odd in to the Liverpool friendly in July, and the record crowd was 8,500 for the Cup semi against Shels in '97. None of those numbers will be troubled again for the foreseeable though. :laugh:
Quite a few fairly odd-looking figures alright! :bulgy:

[Lim till i die]

Tolka 9600?? :bulgy:

[/pedant]

[culloty82]

Didn't Dundalk get taken over by a Supporters' Trust mid-season - either way this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fan-owned_football_clubs#Republic_of_Ireland) might need updating.

[GCdfc]

Didn't Dundalk get taken over by a Supporters' Trust mid-season - either way this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fan-owned_football_clubs#Republic_of_Ireland) might need updating.

No, it was and still is in private ownership albeit by different owners.

[BonnieShels]

It's a great little story behind it involving several SMS Messages, an ex-Premiership footballer and that phrase

It has always bugged me. Unless Google Translate is telling the truth.

[davidatrb]

I have restarted the argument over notability of League of Ireland players especially those from the times where many/most/(all?) clubs had gone fully professional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Football/Fully_professional_leagues

I added Ireland Premier Division as fully pro and they removed it citing that a general consensus should be found on the Talk Page first. So I have gone and removed Ireland from the list of "not fully professional top divisions" because I don't see any consensus on that either.

I noticed I've been fighting this fight for 7 years now - so don't hold your breathe. League of Ireland player articles continue to get deleted left right and centre even though there are BBC articles describing the league as fully pro and lots of sources quoting wages of 100,000 per year for a number of players. FIFA laws rule that professional contract is anyone that has signed a written contract and is paid above expenses incurred. PFAI have 200 and some professionals on their membership and by their rules a professional player seems to be any player earning > €100 per week. But GiantF****Snowman's definition of a professional wage is vague and undefined and although he hasnt a clue what constitutes a professional footballer he knows that League of Ireland doesn't cut it and he knows this without refuting any of the evidence put in front of him or without having a a clue what the average wage is.. While a throw away comment at the last paragraph of local newspaper in some foreign language that you know nobody has verified is enough to have the Polish 3rd tier accepted as a fully pro league.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I have restarted the argument over notability of League of Ireland players especially those from the times where many/most/(all?) clubs had gone fully professional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...sional_leagues (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Football/Fully_professional_leagues)

I added Ireland Premier Division as fully pro and they removed it citing that a general consensus should be found on the Talk Page first. So I have gone and removed Ireland from the list of "not fully professional top divisions" because I don't see any consensus on that either.

I noticed I've been fighting this fight for 7 years now - so don't hold your breathe. League of Ireland player articles continue to get deleted left right and centre even though there are BBC articles describing the league as fully pro and lots of sources quoting wages of 100,000 per year for a number of players. FIFA laws rule that professional contract is anyone that has signed a written contract and is paid above expenses incurred. PFAI have 200 and some professionals on their membership and by their rules a professional player seems to be any player earning > €100 per week. But GiantF****Snowman's definition of a professional wage is vague and undefined and although he hasnt a clue what constitutes a professional footballer he knows that League of Ireland doesn't cut it and he knows this without refuting any of the evidence put in front of him or without having a a clue what the average wage is.. While a throw away comment at the last paragraph of local newspaper in some foreign language that you know nobody has verified is enough to have the Polish 3rd tier accepted as a fully pro league.

You're fighting a losing battle.

The people you are arguing with are never going to accept when they are in the wrong.

They are on a power trip, pure and simple.

Making up for the complete and utter lack of control they have over their own lives, and on other people, by being power hungry keyboard warriors online.

It's the only thing that makes them feel special and gives them a sense of fulfilment.

Just let them have that small victory.

Who cares.

[davidatrb]

You're fighting a losing battle.

The people you are arguing with are never going to accept when they are in the wrong.

They are on a power trip, pure and simple.

Making up for the complete and utter lack of control they have over their own lives, and on other people, by being power hungry keyboard warriors online.

It's the only thing that makes them feel special and gives them a sense of fulfilment.

Just let them have that small victory.

Who cares.

I think you're right. I shouldn't care. It just makes me so mad how stubborn they are. I used to love adding information to the wiki. I love the wiki - its my source of knowledge and if I ever find information that is not on there I usually add it, so that next time I want to know it will be there.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I used to love contributing to Wikipedia but gave up, largely thanks to the kind of people you describe. That Snowman fella rings a bell.

[Charlie Darwin]

It might be worth an enterprising person who cared about the subject to set up a private LOI wiki. I'm not volunteering to do it, but I'm sure there'd be plenty who'd contribute.

[nigel-harps1954]

I created a full Wiki page for Ollie Horgan about a year ago. Took a fairly annoying to-and-fro battle to have it approved by them. Initially rejected three times due to a 'lack of sources' or something along those lines, I simply submitted it over and over again without any changes until it was eventually approved.

Quite often I'd find myself editing bits of information on Wiki. Sometimes, it's rather head-scratching to find some glaring inaccuracies on there. Just imagine, there's college students who copy and paste information from that site.

[Eminence Grise]

Christ! Don't remind me - they all start tomorrow. Lesson 1: plagiarism.

A LoI/Irish football wiki sounds like an interesting project.

[fionnsci]

Seeing this thread pop up brought back a lot of memories! Wikipedia used to be a hobby of mine but the characters that fight you on the most minor of details are suffocating. There are people on there with serious God complexes. I'll keep an eye out but I don't think I have the fight in me anymore.

[Louth4sam]

I used to love contributing to Wikipedia but gave up, largely thanks to the kind of people you describe. That Snowman fella rings a bell.

I updated a load of Dundalk players and a lot were just deleted. Very frustrating when you put the time and effort in to something and someone else deems it not worthy of inclusion. Pretty much didn't bother updating anything again

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Case in point: Dalian Atkinson dies. It is reported on broadcast news and several reputable news media sites. People edit his Wikipedia page in kind. Moderators delete citing "lack of sources". Even though said editors had included various sources reporting his death.

I thought that was rather amusing.

As someone said: "God complexes".

They probably lead very unhappy lives if virtually all their spare time is based around doing what they are doing.

I'm pretty sure Ayman Ben Mohamed had a Wikipedia page which I can no longer find.

I am also confused as to why there is no category for Irish footballers like there is with every other nationality be it: Northern Irish, English, French, Italian.

For example, there are categories for "association footballers from Northern Ireland."

There is no such category for Irish footballers unless you count: "Republic of Ireland association footballers."

That doesn't denote nationality at all. It denotes the country they have represented at football.

[gufcfan]

I updated a load of Dundalk players and a lot were just deleted. Very frustrating when you put the time and effort in to something and someone else deems it not worthy of inclusion. Pretty much didn't bother updating anything again

I did a lot of work a number of years ago and I still get an email every so often telling me something I added was deleted.

I wouldn't waste time trying to engage with them because they won't engage with you.

A private LOI wiki might be a good idea.

[pineapple stu]

How do you set up a private wiki?

(Presume this is the likes of the wikia pages?)

Would it be worth setting up and then there's plenty of people here who can add and try grow it for each club?

[gufcfan]

How do you set up a private wiki?

(Presume this is the likes of the wikia pages?)

I'd slow down a small bit and see what the different types offer before anyone goes ahead and does anything. Fragmenting the contributors before it even starts wouldn't be great.

[TheBoss]

How do you set up a private wiki?

(Presume this is the likes of the wikia pages?)

Would it be worth setting up and then there's plenty of people here who can add and try grow it for each club?

I think whats been suggested is to use wiki software like MediaWiki (which Wikipedia uses) as a new website.

[osarusan]

I created a full Wiki page for Ollie Horgan about a year ago. Took a fairly annoying to-and-fro battle to have it approved by them.

I am off to deface and otherwise wreck this wiki entry.

[Charlie Darwin]

I am off to deface and otherwise wreck this wiki entry.
Too late, Ollie's already beaten you to it.

[nigel-harps1954]

Too late, Ollie's already beaten you to it.


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ce/34/e4/ce34e404ce0b4ed6f58b5022a633b2e6.jpg

[total hoofball]

I'm another one who contributed alot of LOI related articles on Wikipedia up to a few years back but gave up due to the usual Nazi's

I don't think they just single out LOI for not being 'fully' professional, over half the clubs in the English Conference have full time squads and Wikipedia won't recognise any players who that level is the highest level they have played at.

LOI is a professional national league represented with player contracts and a union, whether you get paid €1,000 a week or €50 per week you are a professional.

I can't imagine them deleting all articles related to English League 2 clubs if someone like Notts County decided over night to pay players part-time

[BonnieShels]

I read that Stephen Roche edit thread. Jesus Christ that is mind-numbing. Fair dues to anyone who edits on wiki.

[davidatrb]

So I am on the Talk page and trying to build up a case for including League of Ireland as a fully pro league at least back in 2000-2005 when the Celtic Tiger was roaring and clubs were paying wages of 100,000+ and basically at least 3 times what ppl are getting now. Was there even a salary cap back then?

Anyway, fleshed out my points. Included numerous sources. Solid argument. Papered every crack, dotted every i. Spent a long time to get it right and comprehensive.

The reply from Mr Snowman?

TLDR.

That means "Too long, didn't read" for those not in the know! Nice eh?

I hear the idea about setting up a separate wiki, but don't know if that will attract the same level of contributions that a real wiki does. How will ppl even know about it? There is a hell of a lot of good articles on the main wiki too that we would lose or have to copy over - I don't know if media wiki software has any syncing functionality.

This whole fully professional thing is crazy. I gave examples of golf tournaments where amateurs compete in - does that mean that Rory McIlroy is not fully professional because he plays with amateurs?

I thought that 7 years ago I had some consensus that teams competing in the Europa League and Champions League were a professional level - but they seem to have backtracked from that as well now. Apparently Darren Fletcher became "notable" when he made his debut in the Champions League, but an Irish lad makes an appearance in a top European competition and the rules are different.

Now even getting paid a sufficient wage to be your sole source of employment isn't enough either. We have to prove that every player in the whole league trains full time as well.

The reference they have put up to prove that League of Ireland is not a professional league is total rubbish. Mentions that top teams must make do with 10 month contracts (ignoring the the implication here that they were on higher contracts before this). That's it? That really proves the league is not professional and never was? Where no amount of evidence can prove that it is? And by the way we were removed from the list of non professional countries before with the lad citing no consensus, but then when nobody was looking they slipped it back in where obviously there still is no consensus.

I know what you are all thinking. TLDR. Haha, I'm just having a rant.

[Dodge]

Signing in as another former wiki editor here. Way too many eejits looking to keep the numbers down for some reason I'll never understand