Bohs to go part-time

[SunderlandBohs]

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/loi/news.asp?n=36637

Bad news. But if it means the survival of the club then I'm all for it.

Is this the best way for all clubs?

[Mr A]

Bit of a non-story really.

And yes, this league is not at a point where completely full time squads can be sustained.

[noisecontrol]

What will this mean for the players, will most of them be forced to try and get 2nd jobs or will some jump ship to the UK.

Is there much appetite for Irish players in Scotland after the mutiple failures following the mass exodus across the Irish sea a few seasons back...

[Dodge]

Is there much appetite for Irish players in Scotland after the mutiple failures following the mass exodus across the Irish sea a few seasons back...

All but one that went to Scotland is still there...

[SunderlandBohs]

SPL has been hit in the pocket over the deal with Setanta so they might be a little bit reluctant to splash out on players. Young players can try and find a new club or a trade but the 30+ will find it hard.

[Dodge]

Plus the fact that most of them wouldn't be good enough. or at least they aren't good enough to convince managers to take them on

[MariborKev]

Defo should be part time.

It is like an arms race, with everyone driving each other into liquidation with the scramble to get the best players.

Look at the top three
- Bohs: Kept afloat on the basis of borrowing on a disputed land deal
- Cork: Examinership twice in several years, current problems are well documented
- Derry: Basically afloat as we sold three players to Scotland and had a draw which raised over £100k, however we are selling next year's season tickets early as a means of keeping going

I could keep going through the League.....

Meanwhile clubs which run themselves well like UCD are being relegated as they aren't playing stupid wages to keep up with this lunancy.

The improvement in the quality doesn't equate to the higher wages and consequently higher prices required to sustain this.

The clubs are raping fans at the minute, with no sustainable plan to grow attendances and retain current fans.

[pete]

I don't think part-time is the only solution as it does not necessarily mean paying lower wages as clubs usually pay a net wage & have the pay the tax on top themselves.

I think the idea of paying LOI players 2k a week is long gone & won;t ever return again. The furture is younger players up to maybe a maxium of 50k. If they are too good they will move abroad or be sold before they get to mid 20s.

BTW that is a terrible article & no worthy that any post here. While probably correct is pure speculation. :rolleyes:

[A face]

I think the idea of paying LOI players 2k a week is long gone & won;t ever return again. The furture is younger players up to maybe a maxium of 50k. If they are too good they will move abroad or be sold before they get to mid 20s.

Thats about the size of it alright. Clubs need to start developing players themselves and offer them a means of (i hate saying it) putting themselves in the shop window.

I think clubs should really be linking up with Universities and Technical Colleges in Ireland with the view to having at least 5+ players doing scholarships while playing. If a player knew he could do an honours degree over 6 years while playing then it would be a great attraction for clubs.

[pineapple stu]

Six years is way too long to try and tie a player down in Ireland if he has any ambitions to go cross channel. Three years is the max.

[pete]

Six years is way too long to try and tie a player down in Ireland if he has any ambitions to go cross channel. Three years is the max.

Whatever about the number of years getting a qualification while playing is the best way foward. If a player decided by the age of say 24 he isn't going to make a career in football he can try use that qualification for another career.

Best example we have at City is Neal Horgan who will retire at the end of this season with legal qualifications he gained while playing fulltime.

[pineapple stu]

getting a qualification while playing is the best way foward.
Well ba-duh! Have you seen my avatar lately?

[pól-dcfc]

Six years is way too long to try and tie a player down in Ireland if he has any ambitions to go cross channel. Three years is the max.

Well, I know from personal experience that it is very easy to get credit for third level study transferred to another institution. If a player is on a part-time degree lasting six years and leaves the club after 4, they will only have to complete 1 more year full time/2 years part-time at college to gain their degree. If this link ups were put in place, and the players were given all the information available, it could be a very attractive proposition.

[Rob_the_cat]

All but one that went to Scotland is still there...

I presume you got that the wrong way around. Bobby Ryan, Danny Murphy, Trevor Molloy, Jamie Harris all came back. Only Paul Keegan stayed.

The best centre half in the league Graham Gartland could only get a then 1st division club over there. For all the guff about the progress made by the LOI, only Gary Deegan out of that Bohs squad would definitely succeed cross channel. A one paced set piece specialist like Brennan wouldn't, Murphy was available for free last December and no one took up the option, and the rest of their squad are either not up to it or past it at that level.

Having said that if Nutsy got himself a job there, then I'm sure he would try to bring over players he was familiar with, like in Derry.

[Dodge]

Would you believe I forgot about 3 of them (including the two that play for my team). I was talking about Molloy as coming back...

Sean Dillon and Richie Byrne are still there though

[A face]

Six years is way too long to try and tie a player down in Ireland if he has any ambitions to go cross channel. Three years is the max.

I dunno man, i'm on about player who want to give pro football a serious go over here and concentrate on that mainly. Allowing them to do a degree over six years will help with the work load in college and train properly as well. Any shorter and it would be hard to manage.

[A face]

Sean Dillon and Richie Byrne are still there though

Dillon is doing very well over there from what i gather.

[Mr A]

I dunno man, i'm on about player who want to give pro football a serious go over here and concentrate on that mainly. Allowing them to do a degree over six years will help with the work load in college and train properly as well. Any shorter and it would be hard to manage.

It's almost as if you're saying footballers are dense. :eek:

[Duggie]

part time football is a waste of time.

[Ezeikial]

I don't think part-time is the only solution as it does not necessarily mean paying lower wages as clubs usually pay a net wage & have the pay the tax on top themselves.


Your point appears to be supported by the evidence of Dundalks policy and wage bill this season versus last. With no full timers last year the wage bill was circa €10k, and with almost all of this years squad (admitedly smaller in numbers) full time, the wage bill is quoted at €12.5k.

The point has been made by Directors Kevin Holland and Gerry Matthews that the tax implications of part-timers who have other primary income is such that their tax free allowance is swallowed up, and invitably end up getting pushed into a higher tax bracket - hence the wage costs of part timers are relatively high.

[A face]

It's almost as if you're saying footballers are dense. :eek:

No i'm not, i'm saying they are human and trying to manage a full time training regime (and possible fitness schedule or focused training schedule on top of that) and a full time degree is impossible. If they have to try and juggle both for four years then one or both will suffer.

Also, i'm not on about just making up the numbers in class or the pitch, i'm talking about a serious effort at both.

[MariborKev]

Wise up.

I'll point you to the legions of well qualified intercounty players. I can only speak from a northern perspective but the lads at Queens and J'Town were treated the same as normal students.

[HulaHoop]

Defo should be part time.

It is like an arms race, with everyone driving each other into liquidation with the scramble to get the best players.

Look at the top three
- Bohs: Kept afloat on the basis of borrowing on a disputed land deal
- Cork: Examinership twice in several years, current problems are well documented
- Derry: Basically afloat as we sold three players to Scotland and had a draw which raised over £100k, however we are selling next year's season tickets early as a means of keeping going

I could keep going through the League.....

Meanwhile clubs which run themselves well like UCD are being relegated as they aren't playing stupid wages to keep up with this lunancy.

The improvement in the quality doesn't equate to the higher wages and consequently higher prices required to sustain this.

The clubs are raping fans at the minute, with no sustainable plan to grow attendances and retain current fans.

I think you will find the third placed team in the league does not pay crazy money to players, runs a tight financial ship and has a squad with a mixture of part time and full time players ;)

[pineapple stu]

I dunno man, i'm on about player who want to give pro football a serious go over here and concentrate on that mainly. Allowing them to do a degree over six years will help with the work load in college and train properly as well. Any shorter and it would be hard to manage.
Six years is also far too long for a player to tie himself to any one club. How many players in the league are with the same club six years? If a club releases a player, what happens to his course?

Also, how do you think the UCD players juggle doing a normal full-time college course and what isn't far off a full-time football career (in terms of hours, not money)? Full-time football isn't a 9-5 job.

[MariborKev]

I think you will find the third placed team in the league does not pay crazy money to players, runs a tight financial ship and has a squad with a mixture of part time and full time players ;)


Caught:D

I actually started by saying top four, then realised I'd be including you lot.....

[Macy]

Has anyone told Delaney and the other clowns at the FAI? A fully pro, 10 team league isn't sustainable - who'd have thunk it?

[superfrank]

part time football is a waste of time.
What are the other viable options?

[pete]

Also, how do you think the UCD players juggle doing a normal full-time college course and what isn't far off a full-time football career (in terms of hours, not money)? Full-time football isn't a 9-5 job.

Exactly, Aside from travelling & playing matches a LOI fulltime player would not put in anything like the hours of a full-time non-football job. They'd be lucky to spend half a day on football per day. Neal Horgan did a law degree while at Cork City & we would have more travelling than probably any club.

[HulaHoop]

Caught:D

I actually started by saying top four, then realised I'd be including you lot.....

I do understand your point though about clubs driving each other into liquidation in an arms race. It's nearly all over now though. A few years ago we had, Shels, Drogheda, Cork, Pats, Bohs, and to a lesser extent Derry, Galway and Sligo paying ridiculous money to players and driving themselves off a cliff. Now Shels are gone, Pats are back to reality, Drogheda are back to reality same with Galway and Sligo, Cork are about to go under, Derry are cutting back and Bohs are going back part time (if they survive at all that is) The house of cards has fallen in, it's now a level playing field for everyone again - survival of the fittest.

[sonofstan]

I think you will find the third placed team in the league does not pay crazy money to players, runs a tight financial ship and has a squad with a mixture of part time and full time players ;)

It doesn't give me much pleasure saying this, but Rovers are likely to reap the rewards of their sanity next season. Debt-free, decent crowds, and, with us likely part-time and without Fenlon, and Cork ....... well, you should be well in contention.

[HulaHoop]

It doesn't give me much pleasure saying this, but Rovers are likely to reap the rewards of their sanity next season. Debt-free, decent crowds, and, with us likely part-time and without Fenlon, and Cork ....... well, you should be well in contention.

I certainly hope so but I think we all know football is not a black and white game. Things that should happen sometimes don't. Put it this way I won't be counting any chickens just yet although it does look very promising for us right now.

[MariborKev]

Derry are cutting back

Despite the words of this, I have yet to see any evidence of the same.

Still the same ridiculous wages, excessive overnight stays and various other extravagances.......

[OneRedArmy]

Despite the words of this, I have yet to see any evidence of the same.

Still the same ridiculous wages, excessive overnight stays and various other extravagances.......Thats not true, we cut back on other things, like merchandising and infrastructure ;):D

[pineapple stu]

I hear you cut back on transfer fees too. ;)

[Ezeikial]

Bohemian FC's future at stake over €58m deal with Carroll

By John Mulligan
Thursday June 25 2009

A €58m deal between League of Ireland champions Bohemian FC and a company controlled by embattled developer Liam Carroll could be increasingly under pressure, raising fresh prospects that the Dublin club may have to resort to rapid financial restructuring in order to survive. It might even contemplate making its players part, rather than full-time employees.
Auditors who signed off the club's recently-filed accounts at the Companies Office, have also expressed uncertainty over Bohemian's ability to continue as an on-going concern after a €1.9m operating loss in the last financial year propelled its accumulated losses to more than €2.6m.
Bohemian FC signed a deal in 2007 to sell its grounds at Dalymount in north Dublin to Liam Carroll's Danninger vehicle. The acquisition by Danninger would include a cash payment of just over €38m and an undertaking to construct a 10,000-seater stadium valued at €20m for the club at Harristown. It's understood that the football club has received fresh offers for the grounds within the past few months and that it would be willing to allow Danninger to break the purchase contract in return for a fee, or possibly to renegotiate the purchase price. While the club has already received €2.6m from Danninger, it's understood that no further payments are due, pending the resolution of a legal battle between the club and rival property firm Albion.
Last year the High Court instructed the football club to hold a portion of its grounds in trust for Albion, refuting a contention by Bohemian FC that no redevelopment agreement had been concluded between the club and the property firm. On Monday, Irish Nationwide commenced legal action against Liam Carroll, claiming he had personally guaranteed up to €60m in loans made to one of his numerous property firms, Aifca.
Danninger has recently had to secure additional bank financing to overcome cashflow issues and has asked creditors to write off up to 40pc of their debts.
In its company accounts, Bohemian directors state that they are confident the club can return to profitability within one to two years and that if its financial health further deteriorates, assets could be revalued to reflect a higher value than that currently on the club's balance sheet.
- John Mulligan

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/bohemian-fcs-future-at-stake-over-836458m-deal-with-carroll-1789170.html

[dcfcsteve]

part time football is a waste of time.

Damn straight.

Liquidation is the way forward people !

That and little green men from Mars living inside the mind of the world's leaders.

[Mr A]

It's understood that the football club has received fresh offers for the grounds within the past few months and that it would be willing to allow Danninger to break the purchase contract in return for a fee, or possibly to renegotiate the purchase price.

Bloody hell- it would be some coup to get a fee off Danninger considering Bohs agreed to sell them land that wasn't theirs!

[OneRedArmy]

Bloody hell- it would be some coup to get a fee off Danninger considering Bohs agreed to sell them land that wasn't theirs!The idea of Danninger paying anyone anything in their current state is, frankly, laughable.

[Bald Student]

The idea of Danninger paying anyone anything in their current state is, frankly, laughable.Keeping the 2 million they got already would be a decent result.

[Dalymountrower]

Keeping the 2 million they got already would be a decent result.

Yes it would . Looking more and more likely that the Irish Nationwide case will have a knock on effect and a deal will be done that allows Danniger to walk away from their agreement on Dalymount, which has ,in reality been a dead duck since the High Court decision.
Will still leave the club with some major financial re-structuring to have a hope of coming within 65% cap this year.

[Ezeikial]

Will still leave the club with some major financial re-structuring to have a hope of coming within 65% cap this year.

Surely there is really two seperate, if related, issues here.

Medium and long term it's about getting financial stability and trying to make the club viable - obviously there is a lot of factors that influence this, not least of which is the Danniger / Albion issue.

Short term, it's about getting under the 65% cap, to avoid the stated sanction of relegation. How can Bohs achieve this?

[Dalymountrower]

Yes, they are seperate issues, financial re-strucuring wil be needed to deal with both short and medium term issues. I would be confident enough that the 65 % cap can be sorted out this year, but for succeding years capital will be required through realising a sale of the ground. If this hasn`t been sorted by 2012 NAMA or the IMF will be running the club!

[Dodge]

If this hasn`t been sorted by 2012 NAMA or the IMF will be running the club!

I can't keep up with all these Bohs hoolie firms. Last I remember the BSS were getting vored and the BSC were getting old... Now these NAMA and IMF crowds are in?

[Ezeikial]

I would be confident enough that the 65 % cap can be sorted out this year

How?

Increasing revenue - how can this be done?

Reducing costs - how can this be done, other then hope Uk clubs are interested in players?

[osarusan]

From the club statement in that article in the Independent -
if [the club's] financial health further deteriorates, assets could be revalued to reflect a higher value than that currently on the club's balance sheet.


Am I wrong in translating this to mean that if things don't improve, Bohs will just say that the value of a certain asset has increased - an increase with no basis in reality, and done just to make the books look better?

[irishultra]

Will League of Ireland clubs ever take the steps Norway did in the 70'-80's like developing infrastructure or do they feel the boat has been missed?

[sonofstan]

Will League of Ireland clubs ever take the steps Norway did in the 70'-80's like developing infrastructure or do they feel the boat has been missed?

The boat was sold to pay wages.

[RoversHead]

How?

Increasing revenue - how can this be done?

Reducing costs - how can this be done, other then hope Uk clubs are interested in players?
Hope for an historic champions league run to increase revenue and accept any bids for the top earners at the club nothing else they can do in the short term .

[pete]

Will League of Ireland clubs ever take the steps Norway did in the 70'-80's like developing infrastructure or do they feel the boat has been missed?

In the short to medium term the boat has sailed. No Premier division club has developed infrastructure before players. Don't know how they funded in Norway but Irish government funding will be limited in the coming years...

Not picking on Drogs or Shels (I sure we would have done the same if had money) but for the money they spent on players they would nearly have built new stadiums.

[Larry 'da' Wyse]

:):):)
NAMA are the new firm oke - Need Anger Management Advice.


I can't keep up with all these Bohs hoolie firms. Last I remember the BSS were getting vored and the BSC were getting old... Now these NAMA and IMF crowds are in?