Web design

[Pauro 76]

Currently learning a bit of Dreamweaver, but just checking what you guys think the best web design package out there is? Is Illustrator a good way to design web design templates also?

[dahamsta]

Modern webdev is really a multitude of different fields, including:


Graphic Design (Vector and Raster)
HTML & XML Templating
CSS & XSL Layouts and Styles
Client-Side Scripting (Javascript)
Programming (PHP, VB, Python, etc.)
DBA (MySQL, MS-SQL, etc.)

And because it's also competive, even if it's only a hobby, you also need marketing skills, knowledge of how the search engines work, an understanding of community and the pyschology of web users, etc. So the days of the webmaster are long gone.

None of which answers your question, I'm just trying to make a point:

Forget about picking a "web design package", there's no such thing any more. What you already have is about as close as you can get so I'd suggest continuing to play with that until you find one particular aspect of it really interesting, then focus on that and start looking for people to work with for the rest.

adam

[dcfc_1928]

I'm just starting to look at Python - seems quite straightforward so far and I would recommend having a go at that, if you're interested in the programming side of web development.

Once I get a decent grounding in Python, I'll hopefully start playing with some of the web application frameworks - Django, Google App Engine etc.

Any Python/Django experts out there?

[Pauro 76]

Cheers lads, not looking to getting into programming as such or even getting into website, just interested in the design aspect of it and experimenting with that end until I'm comfortable enough to take on the coding side of it. Designing a website for a friend of mine, and if that goes well, can go on from there. From a design background and finding Dreamweaver hard to get to grips with at first, but it'll be worth the effort.

[dahamsta]

Hacked on Python a while back when I wanted to talk to Mailman (http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html), absolutely hated it. Probably just because it can be so different to the Perl, PHP and other languages I tend to use, but still, ewww. And Java...!? Yuck!

DW's your best man so Pauro 76, stick with it. Just don't consider it as a career option. Careers in webdev these days are in frontend design, backend functionality or sales and marketing. There's no room for the man in the middle any more unless you got in on the ground floor.

[Pauro 76]

Hacked on Python a while back when I wanted to talk to Mailman (http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html), absolutely hated it. Probably just because it can be so different to the Perl, PHP and other languages I tend to use, but still, ewww. And Java...!? Yuck!

DW's your best man so Pauro 76, stick with it. Just don't consider it as a career option. Careers in webdev these days are in frontend design, backend functionality or sales and marketing. There's no room for the man in the middle any more unless you got in on the ground floor.

Cheers mate, will stick with Dreamweaver and see how it fares. Not really looking beyond it as a hobby, but thinking learning about it in general would be extremely useful...

[paul_oshea]

whats wrong with java or any of those frameworks? Seriouslly, i thought even nerds liked it :D Linux and java, with a bit of perl scripting thrown in, thought it was nerd heaven! I am out of touch, is there something more nerd cool out there?!

[tetsujin1979]

Java is better for middleware stuff, the C in the MVC architecture. It's fairly pants for UI design. And I say that as a programmer.

[awec]

Java UI design is simple.

Doesn't look great though and it never feels "right", so to speak.

[tetsujin1979]

designing a UI in Java is simple
getting everything lined up correctly, and able to scale properly with window changes, is what I imagine hell to be like

[Pauro 76]

UI? Java? Perl? MVC? Python?

I know nothing.... :confused:

[dahamsta]

UI? Java? Perl? MVC? Python?

I know nothing.... :confused:UI = User Interface; what you look at in programs. Java, perl and python are programming languages. MVC = Model View Controller, a programming paradigm better explained by the interwebs.

[paul_oshea]

MVC, the V being the jsp/html i.e. the view. The C definitely not being java usually a mixture of xml and some java....the M being java(but you could have a .net c# design also, or even eiffel etc etc )....

Check out some cool ajax stuff then Tets. There are librarys out there that you install as plugins, and you can build directly in java, it looks pretty cool too -> JavaFX i think its called, nice netbeans plug in too.

Pauro while you are at it, heres another one for you FLEX. Really is cool how that integrates with web services. Its proprietary stuff but still pretty cool.

[tetsujin1979]

I have a slightly different definition of it Paul
MVC - Model View Controller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model%E2%80%93view%E2%80%93controller
Model - All of the information available to be displayed to the user is stored in a database of some kind, Oracle, DB2, Cloudscape, MySQL, XML doc, etc
Controller - Controls what will be displayed to the user, extracts the relevant data from the Model and passes it to the View
View - How the information is displayed to the user, i.e. how the information fro mthe controller appears in the browser window, application UI, etc

Recently started messing with AJAX, but I've seen a lot of apps where it's forced in for the sake of saying "look what I did with AJAX" when a much simpler solution exists.

[paul_oshea]

The model can be anything tets, it could be JSF, it could be Struts, it could be spring, it could be a combination of both etc. Generally some framework sits under/within the model. It doesn't have to be a link to a DB either, it could be a webservices framework like axis for example. Thats too rigid a definition for Model. The controller is what handles page to page navigation or in a thick client window to window/tab to tab or for example a JTable.

[Pauro 76]

Lordy, think I need a beginners guide to everything listed here! I'm progressing ok on Dreamweaver, I'll stick to that for now and have a look at the others mentioned here.

[centre mid]

Yeah Trap needs to sort out whether or not Stephen Ireland comes back into the fold or......oh sorry wrong thread.

[dahamsta]

See now Pauro in that situation the Model and View were correct, but the Controller was an incompetent idiot. :D

[paul_oshea]

Don't be so hard on yourself dahamsta ;) :D