Bulgaria V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 6th June 2009 - World Cup 2010 Q

[ifk101]

I'm disappointed. This is a game we could of won but decided a draw was a good result.

[Montenegrin]

Congarulations on good result against Bulgaria.I think that you should won at least one against them,but it is over now and you look certain to take second place at least.
We werent good enough to win at Cyprus.Our stupid defence conceded two stupid goals and we missed penalty,so we ended up with the draw yet again,but it is ok since we played without 6 first team players due bookings and injuries:mad:.I hope that we will beat Bulgaria next match and help you guys securing 2nd place:).I hope that you will finish 1st,though.

[mypost]

I'm disappointed. This is a game we could of won but decided a draw was a good result.

It is a good result.

You'd swear we were Brazil with all the moaning and groaning, over getting a POINT in Sofia. :rolleyes:

[Crosby87]

Italy are an ageing side, and are due a beating by someone.

I understood your post, well put. I just, if they are so ready to be beat, why have they not lost? They will also have the benefit of a few months rest for the game, and all.....I dunno. I hope we can beat them at home but a 1-1 tie to Bulgaria hardly supports the notion. Also, we tied Bulgaria AT HOME, which people seem to be forgetting?

[thespikers]

We are in a great position however the groups we all see dont tell the full story. Because group 9 only has 5 teams the other groups results against the bottom team are wiped out. We need Montenegro to finish bottom as we have only possibility of 4 points against them whereas we have 6 points against Georgia. So with other groups in similar positions we might only know on the last date what all the second place total points are..
Top place is still there for us..

[Montenegrin]

I think :rolleyes: sums it up pretty well.

It's not a stupid rule, it's dictated by mathematics. Seedings are based on past results and ranking points. You can't pluck them out of thin air. Montenegro had none, therefore they were seeded sixth. That has always been the case.


I think that it is the stupidest rule they have ever introduced.It is not fair becouse there isnt San Marino or Malta in our group,so it is more difficult to win all of the matches against bottom seaded teams.I mean,look at the group two-can you even compare it with our group?It is shame.I am pretty sure that neither of these teams would be able to come even close to qualifing to WC if they played in any other group.There are two ways they could resolve this without adding aditional place for Europe.
They could include best of the 2nd placed teams in playoffs with Asian/American teams or they could change way in which play off works creating three teams group playing each other at neutral field.It would be way fairer than this.

[ifk101]

It is a good result.

You'd swear we were Brazil with all the moaning and groaning, over getting a POINT in Sofia. :rolleyes:

Did we try to play after scoring a goal? Let's be honest we were happy with the draw at half time.

[elroy]

Congarulations on good result against Bulgaria.I think that you should won at least one against them,but it is over now and you look certain to take second place at least.
We werent good enough to win at Cyprus.Our stupid defence conceded two stupid goals and we missed penalty,so we ended up with the draw yet again,but it is ok since we played without 6 first team players due bookings and injuries:mad:.I hope that we will beat Bulgaria next match and help you guys securing 2nd place:).I hope that you will finish 1st,though.

I hope ye do get a good result against Bulgaria, but if ye wont mind taking it easy in ye're last game and giving us the three points. I dont think our nerves could handle a nail biting last game.

Unfortunately happy and all as i am with tonights result, i dont think we have much hope of topping the group now. The most points we can get is 22. Italy have four games left, Cyprus and Bulgaria at home and Georgia and ourselves away. They have 14 points at the moment so three wins from those games will guarantee them top spot. So basically unless Bulgaria get a result in Italy I dont think we can win this group.

I dont think Bulgaria will get more than 10 points in their final 4 games, so that would leave them with 18. As we are now on 13 points, an away win at Cyprus and home win at Montenegro should see us finish in second.

[Sheridan]

They could include best of the 2nd placed teams in playoffs with Asian/American teams
No, they couldn't. There are already two play-offs in Asia, and the allocations were made about six months before Montenegro entered FIFA.

or they could change way in which play off works creating three teams group playing each other at neutral field.It would be way fairer than this.It wouldn't, and it would create innumerable logistical problems, not least of which would be the tiebreaker should two teams finish with identical records, as they inevitably would.

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with the weighting of the group. It has one decent team and the others are lucky to be playing for a play-off.

[drummerboy]

Before the match I really feared this game. I remember Jimmy Holmes breaking his leg in a 1-0 defeat out there. And I remember Giles goal being disallowed for absolutely nothing. The place was hell for Ireland.

So with that in mind

GIVEN 7 - Hadn't much to do really, but did what he had to do competently. No chance with goal.

O'SHEA 8 _ Didn't put a foot wrong. Has been murdered by all the keyboard warriors for years but has finally put all his critics to the sword. Had a great game tonight. He also blocked off Berbatov for Dunnes goal.

DUNNE 10 _ Magnificient game. Never erred. Defended with passion and buckets of skill.. Has reached his peak and is a joy to watch defending. Reminiscence of the Paul McGrath at his best.

ST ST LEDGER –8 Great find. I can see now, why THE DOC posted continuously about is merits to be in the Irish side. Without doing anything exceptional he defended competently without too much fuss. Looked like he got a call for Kilbane mistake. So so glad that at long last Trap is starting to spread the net a bit wider and playing players who have not featured before. Perhaps he is reading foot.ie

KILBANE 6 - Looked very dodge in first half and made a bad mistake. However he didn let it affect the rest of his game and he stuck to his task. Unfortunately the time has come to look around for a replacement for one of the best ever servants this country has ever had in international football. I will always have huge respect for the man and hopefully some day I can buy him a drink.

DUFF 7 – A player I had written off. Done well tonight. Bought us some valuable time on many occasions tonight, winning us lots of freekicks. However the ref, understandably got tired of him going to ground too easily but he is still an asset to us.

WHELAN 5 Seems to obey Traps words too litteraly. At one stage springing back in front of the back four when he could have won a tackle. Worked his arse off but he is a better player than his showed tonight.

Andrews 6 Like Whelan he stayed on his leash for most of the night. He was fairly influential in first 25 minutes but went back into his defensive shell. Can't fault his endeavour.

HUNT 7 Started very brightly. Done what he does best. Got in their faces. Two fouls in first 3 minutes. Delivered great ball for Dunnes goal. Seemed to tire in second half and wasn't surprised when he was replaced.

FOLAN 9 Thank heavens Trap has decided to dip further into his reserves. This guy was immense in first half, winning countless balls in the air and holding it up. They just couldn't cope with him. He has'nt played a full game in about 6 weeks and played the full game. Don't know even what age he is but could be a real find.

SUBS McGEADY 7 Done well when he came on without being outstanding. Could have done better with that shot.

KELLY 7 Made a couple of great interventions when they looked like they were in. Not easy as a late sub in such an important game, especially as he looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights on his last appearance. Delighted he has come out the othelr end of his bad form intact.

BEST 6 A bit surprised he was brought him on in front of Keogh who I think is a lot more mobile that Best, and has never really got a chance in his natural position. However thats not Best's fault and he worked hard and is a bonus for us.


OVERALL _ Its the dogs ****** of a result. Forget about the negatives and enjoy the moment. Still a lot to do BUT THIS TEAM IS GROWING WITH EVERY GAME. Progress. Something we have lacked for years. Roll on September.

[MeathDrog]

No, they couldn't. There are already two play-offs in Asia, and the allocations were made about six months before Montenegro entered FIFA.
It wouldn't, and it would create innumerable logistical problems, not least of which would be the tiebreaker should two teams finish with identical records, as they inevitably would.

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with the weighting of the group. It has one decent team and the others are lucky to be playing for a play-off.
Care to explain the last comment in your signature?? :eek:

[Sheridan]

I thought it was self-explanatory. :confused:

[Supreme feet]

This campaign is starting to remind me of the 2002 qualifiers. Draws away with the two top seeds, a draw at home with one of our rivals, struggling to victories against the lesser teams... big match at home against European superpower to come...

Okay, tonight wasn't hugely impressive. But we're on the up, and the Dunne-St. Ledger partnership is here to stay. Which allows for Foley to come in at RB, O'Shea to move to LB, and Kilbane to be allowed a dignified, gradual exit from the team he's served so manfully. Lets hope Steven Reid will be okay for September.

[MeathDrog]

I'm sorry to **** on everyone's parade, but I can't see us beating another 2nd placed team over 2 legs. People are assuming that 2nd place is our ticket to SA. Far from the case, and we need no reminder about our poor record in playoff matches.

[MeathDrog]

I thought it was self-explanatory. :confused:
Not quite. Have you been to an Ireland match in Croker?

[Sheridan]

God no. I haven't been to an Oireland match since 1994. I prefer Irish football. :cool:

[drummerboy]

Iran 2001-2?

[MeathDrog]

Iran 2001-2?
I knew someone would refer to that, but we won't be playing Iran this time round. 1 playoff win in 4 if I'm not mistaken.

[The Fly]

Does anyone else think that Kevin Doyle is not a guaranteed starter anymore? This is not a reflection on Doyle himself, merely that the system works better with a taller forward (target man) beside Keane. Since the Italian game, this is becoming more clear.

For me the Keane - Doyle forward partnership never really clicked anyway.

[Noelys Guitar]

Does anyone who laughed at my suggestions that Arsenal could do worse than look at Dunne still think it's a dumb idea?

I think a neutral looking at this would have said Bulgaria didn't do enough to win. I was anxious but not as anxious as I have been watching Ireland away.

The negatives are clear: our defence has a crucial error in every game and midfield struggles to get a hold of any game when it counts. There were positives too: Folan is a reallly credible altyernative to Doyle, SSL is a good player to have, the shape of the tyeam without the ball is good, Duff can still beat a man, draw fouls and generally relieve pressure and we have better players that can come in.

I reckon I'm a bit happier than I am disappointed. The group table still looks good though it could look better, but it could also look worse. I think this is our best ever result in Bulgaria & I'd prefer our position to Bulgaria's.

I think we'll be a far tougher opponent for Cyprus than we were last time. We'll win that one I reckon.

If this was cannavaro people ould be hopping up and down. Dunne was immense. Truely one of the greatest displays ever by an Irish player.

[irishfan86]

Does anyone else think that Kevin Doyle is not a guaranteed starter anymore? This is not a reflection on Doyle himself, merely that the system works better with a taller forward (target man) beside Keane.

For me the Keane - Doyle forward partnership never really clicked anyway.

I've been campaigning for Doyle to be dropped in favour of a target man for literally years now on this forum, and even if fit, I'd consider leaving Folan in the lineup.

I love Kevin Doyle and his attitude, but to get the best out of Robbie, a proper target man is required.

Doyler is a great finisher, and good in the air for his height, but he simply doesn't bring that physical dimension up top that the likes of Folan can bring.

[Noelys Guitar]

I'm sorry to **** on everyone's parade, but I can't see us beating another 2nd placed team over 2 legs. People are assuming that 2nd place is our ticket to SA. Far from the case, and we need no reminder about our poor record in playoff matches.

Based on what?

[MeathDrog]

Does anyone else think that Kevin Doyle is not a guaranteed starter anymore? This is not a reflection on Doyle himself, merely that the system works better with a taller forward (target man) beside Keane. Since the Italian game, this is becoming more clear.

For me the Keane - Doyle forward partnership never really clicked anyway.
Why? Keane was nowhere to be seen most of the time when Folan knocked it down for him!

[Brendan 82]

Yes it will be interesting to see who the front two are when the next competitive match kicks off. Folan has palyed well. I think the spot beside Robbie Keane will depend upon injuries and performances in the friendly

[MeathDrog]

Based on what?
Just based on the fact that we're not very good. We could pull it off on one game but usually 2 games gives a fairer reflection of who is a better team.

If we're unlucky, we could be put against a fairly decent team and that could be the end for us.

[MeathDrog]

God no. I haven't been to an Oireland match since 1994. I prefer Irish football. :cool:
So will you be at Croker tomorrow?

[Supreme feet]

I'm sorry to **** on everyone's parade, but I can't see us beating another 2nd placed team over 2 legs. People are assuming that 2nd place is our ticket to SA. Far from the case, and we need no reminder about our poor record in playoff matches.

So we can't hope then? Playoffs are a lottery. One moment of inspiration, or a mistake, can decide it all. As for our historical record, I wouldn't worry too much; I doubt Paris '65 or Anfield '95 are going to weighing on our player's minds. We knew we were probably not going to top the group anyway, so being comfortably in the playoff spot - in June - is a huge success.

It's been a recurring theme on this forum that this team can only get better. With Reid back, and who knows; maybe McCann or McCarthy in the fold (Trap has shown he's not afraid to throw good young players in), we'll be well able to compete.

Tonight was always going to be a test; we've come through it, despite our general inexperience in vital areas. Two away draws against the top two seeds. Much better than the qualifiers for Euro 96, France 98, Euro 2000, 2004, or 2008 when we lost all of those corresponding fixtures, and missed out as a result. The hardest bit is done now, and we're still in the running for top spot. Well done Trap, and well done Ireland.

[Supreme feet]

MeathDrog, don't fall for Sheridan's 'Croke Park' tagline. It's just the usual awkward 'let's make everyone feel guilty' thing that most pseudo-intellectuals try to enforce on their would-be audience.

[youngirish]

God no. I haven't been to an Oireland match since 1994. I prefer Irish football. :cool:

So stop bothering us Ireland fans on the Ireland forum then and p*ss off to the LOI one.

[geysir]

One of the hardest points we have achieved in a qualification process in ages. If you don't value that, then there is very little appreciation of European qualification competitive football when the group hits the point of no return.

Relieved we got the point, too tired and emotional to be anything more than that.

Trap has the scent of South Africa firmly in his nostrils.

[geysir]

SUBS McGEADY 7 Done well when he came on without being outstanding. Could have done better with that shot.

Overall that was a good review you wrote.
But McGeady did well enough with that effort, created the opening and hit a decent shot.

I wouldn't be too hard on Kilbane.
I suspect Bulgaria would have equalised regardless.

I would also attribute the lack of Bulgarian spunk, in the last 1/4, down to
Irish resolution and fitness, the Bulgarians ran out of steam.

[backstothewall]

I'm sorry to **** on everyone's parade, but I can't see us beating another 2nd placed team over 2 legs. People are assuming that 2nd place is our ticket to SA. Far from the case, and we need no reminder about our poor record in playoff matches.

Thats really bad news, because as far as i can tell fate is propelling us towards a play-off with the north at a rate of knots.

[SkStu]

So stop bothering us Ireland fans on the Ireland forum then and p*ss off to the LOI one.

should all LOI fans pee off there to the other forum then or what? :(

[Stuttgart88]

I'm sorry to **** on everyone's parade, but I can't see us beating another 2nd placed team over 2 legs. People are assuming that 2nd place is our ticket to SA. Far from the case, and we need no reminder about our poor record in playoff matches.
No but we can get 2 draws and go through on away goals!

We drew our first 4 games in Italia 90 and still got to the QFs :)

[Stuttgart88]

No, just the ones who don't have an interest in the national team. It's simple really - if people aren't that bothered in LOI then they don't go onto the LOI forum and same should apply to the the Ireland International forum. I doubt YI goes on to the LOI forum with a disparaging tone.

[Razors left peg]

Personally I love the way this group is shaping up.If at the start we were all told that if we beat Italy in Croke park we would top the group we would have all been delighted. We have come a so far under this manager and yet there are still people not happy. Yes I would have loved if we could have continued the way we started the first half hour of the Bulgaria game and gone on to score a few more goals last night but to come away with a point in a hostile atmostphere like that in the summer heat is excellent.I dont think we generally have a good record in games at this time of the year either so Im delighted

Still unbeaten in compeditive games.....In Trap I trust!

[OwlsFan]

We just seem to be able to get that competitive away win against major opposition. Careless mistake but then our goal was soft as well.

Thrilled that we got away draws in both Italy and Bulgaria.

Positives: see above and the performance of Sean St. (we knew Dunne was class) and Folan and Hunt who worked so hard. Bulgarians, despite all the possession, just had one half chance for Berbatov. Superb defending

Disappointment: couldn't hold the lead. Nothing to do with "falling back". Just a silly mistake. We were bound to be under the cosh for much of the game with two relatively weak midfielders. Some people think because we had a good spell at the beginning, the whole game should continue like that. Doesn't work that way when you have an average side.

I worry about Italy at home. We haven't played well at home in any of our games. We're set up for away games. I'd be amazed if we beat Italy at home. But then again I was amazed we got draws away to Italy and Bulgaria ;)

[Stuttgart88]

Some people think because we had a good spell at the beginning, the whole game should continue like thatWe played well in that spell, but Bulgaria played badly. They didn't really start the game at all, first couple of minutes aside. Getting the equaliser injected momentum and inevitably they played better.

I fully appreciate the difficulty of that point but I still think that looking back on a lot of the games - most notably Bulgaria at home - we've left a little bit out there.

How close was McGeady's effort? The cameraman missed it, or else the pub telly hadn't a wide enough screen.

[Stuttgart88]

If we win next 3 games we'll win group I reckon.

I'd love it for obvious reasons but also to promote football back above egg chasing as the sport of the moment! How on earth can Free State Cheethas vs a Lions non-test XV with some Irish in it even come close to Bulgaria vs Ireland as a sporting conversation piece this weekend?

[shakermaker1982]

My post match review forgot to mention the ref last night. He was outstanding. Top drawer official. Another ref might have bought their diving and rolling around. I don't think he made 1 error last night.

Does anybody know if the play offs will be seeded or are they waiting to see how many 'big' teams feature?

[eirebhoy]

How close was McGeady's effort? The cameraman missed it, or else the pub telly hadn't a wide enough screen.
I had the exact same problem in a friends house. Skint the post apparently.

[Scram]

I had the exact same problem in a friends house. Skint the post apparently.

I don't think so, the keeper had the post covered and it was wide of him. I'd say it was wider than it looked, maybe a couple of feet.

Oh, by the way, we are 8th out of 9 second place teams so we still have a whole lot to do to even make the play offs.

In the whole scheme of things, we haven't had ANY result of note other than a 1-1 against a 10 man Italy. That realism.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I had the exact same problem in a friends house. Skint the post apparently.

I think we can conclude then that the cameraman is a dozy mutt because I spent half the match changing the screen size on my telly as many loose passes and fast interchanges seemed to happen just out of frame.

[shakermaker1982]

I don't think so, the keeper had the post covered and it was wide of him. I'd say it was wider than it looked, maybe a couple of feet.

Oh, by the way, we are 8th out of 9 second place teams so we still have a whole lot to do to even make the play offs.

In the whole scheme of things, we haven't had ANY result of note other than a 1-1 against a 10 man Italy. That realism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)#Ranking_o f_second-placed_teams

you sure?

[SUB of the day]

My post match review forgot to mention the ref last night. He was outstanding. Top drawer official. Another ref might have bought their diving and rolling around. I don't think he made 1 error last night.

Does anybody know if the play offs will be seeded or are they waiting to see how many 'big' teams feature?
Totally agree about the ref,in the bad old days visits to Sofia were littered with dodgy calls.Only time I nearly crapped myself was when he blew for fulltime,for a split second I thought he had given a penalty.....yes I was drunk and emotional, but this was Ireland away in Sofia, and I grew up in a generation where, when ROI score you automatically look at the linesman to make sure his flag isn't up.....Paris (twice) Brussels and of course Sofia.

[osarusan]

I said before the game that I would have been happy with a draw, and expected a 0-0 result.

After the game, I'm happy with a 1-1 result, though I am disappointed that we were so willing to concede possession and territory for the whole second half.

Positives - we are clearly capable of defending well for long periods without giving away any real chances. St. Ledger and Folan impressed. Dunne was....Dunne.

Negatives - our midfield means we have to defend for long periods.


I hope the fact we defend well doesn't mean we will rely on them more than necessary against teams which pose less of a threat than Bulgaria.

[Stuttgart88]

Write up in Guardian (presumably from an unemotionally involved Englishman) was quite on-the-money:

- Bulgarian players sank to their knees at the final whistle (I didn't see this myself but if true then it's testimony as to how important that result was).

- Ireland are now more likely to finish first than finish third.

[Scram]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)#Ranking_o f_second-placed_teams

you sure?

Well that' what was said on RTE 2 after the game by Bill O'Herlihy etc. I assumed they would have researched it!! Either way, we are joint second last on points, so yes, lots of work to do.

[youngirish]

should all LOI fans pee off there to the other forum then or what? :(
Not at all I'm just asking the question. If you have no interest in the Ireland team as Sherdian obviously doesn't then I have to wonder what his motives are for being on here.

No, just the ones who don't have an interest in the national team. It's simple really - if people aren't that bothered in LOI then they don't go onto the LOI forum and same should apply to the the Ireland International forum. I doubt YI goes on to the LOI forum with a disparaging tone.
Thanks Stutts for posting some sense as usual. I have never posted anything disparaging on the LOI forums in the few posts I've made on there from my recollection.

Because I support the Ireland team and not a LOI team (I live abroad) am I Oirish in some way then and therefore not as Irish as Sheridan?

[Junior]

I agree with most of the ratings posted, so wont duplicate.

Folan - Is really really impressing me. What has he got about 4 caps? He always makes an nuisance of himself and with no little amount of skill and control and use of a footballing brain. Dont get me wrong he's no Sheringham but I really like what im seeing (Great burst of pace as well in the last few minutes just over ran it in the box - not bad after the shift he had put in)- its a pity Robbie was so quiet tonight, I thought he had something to work with here. I was disappointed in his performance.

McGeadys effort - created it himself and was just a whisker outside the post but in all honesty I wasnt surprised, I see it week in week out at Celtic Park. His shooting leaves a lot to be desired and he regularly skies his shots/gets them off target. Once he made the space, he really had all the goal to aim for (from memory). Not trying to be overly critical but those opportunities, if taken, could mean the difference between qualifiying and not (Bulgaria at home, and Montengro away I think he had a similar chance in each game) - he needs to improve his shooting!!!!!

Kilbane - Id be a fan first and foremost. The mistake, whilst almost predictable from an Irish side, was annoying (not sure if Kilbane is completely to blame or if SSL also has to take a slice) but more worrying was the lack of closing down of his winger, time and time again he got his crosses in and this was just lack of discipline/know how. You've got to stop the ball getting in to the danger area!!!!

Ref - Had a great game