Strange fact!

[Candystripe]

From an e-mail I got a week or so ago.

Recent Derry City home games in the L.O.I.


Now while we do not wish to cast any aspersions on the professional ability of individual referees, there must be some questions asked. Recently there have been several very worthy appeals for penalties at Brandywell which have been turned down by the officials. Maybe they were correct in doing so, but maybe they were wrong. However it is significant that Derry City's record at Brandywell is signifcantly below par when specific referees are officiating.

Let's take for instance that in recent seasons Derry City have been winning more often than not at Brandywell - our home record has been quite good with approximately a 60 per cent win record.

Strangely, with some officials, Derry City's record at Brandywell is quite sub-standard.

The following is Derry City's record while being officiated by some of the league's top referees: (records as of 2nd May 2009)

Damien Hancock (Dublin) - Damien has refereed 15 games at Brandywell since April of 2008 - Derry City have won just five.

Ian Stokes (Dublin) - Ian has refereed 18 games at Brandywell, Derry City have won just six. Indeed from 32 games which Ian has officiated involving Derry City, the Candy Stripes have won just 10.

David McKeon (Dublin) - Damien refereed nine games at Brandywell between 22nd April 2005 and 3rd November 2006 - Derry City didn't win any of them. Of the last five occasions Damien has refereed at Brandywell, Derry City have won just one.

Paul Tuite (Dublin) - Derry City have won just one of seven away games at which he has officiated.

Robbie Winter (Dublin) - He has officiated at 12 Derry City games over the past two seasons - Derry City have won just four.

These percentages don't seem stack up. While this is not meant to be an attack on specific officials, it does highlight that Dublin officials are handed big games which generally are against Dublin clubs. While some of this may be seen as sour grapes, the above statistics are facts. While it is accepted that Derry City could not have been expected to win every game at home, and they would almost certainly not deserved to win many of them, the figures just don't stack up.

[peadar1987]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1w1A3n-Eww

[Réiteoir]

This would be more appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

[Umberside]

This would be more appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

That was scary:(

[Buller]

This would be more appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

Thanks, I'm going to have nightmares....

[Hairy Bowsie]

Nonsense

[JC_GUFC]

These percentages don't seem stack up. While this is not meant to be an attack on specific officials, it does highlight that Dublin officials are handed big games which generally are against Dublin clubs. While some of this may be seen as sour grapes, the above statistics are facts. While it is accepted that Derry City could not have been expected to win every game at home, and they would almost certainly not deserved to win many of them, the figures just don't stack up.

So Derry must have an incredibly high % win rate when you have a non-Dublin official in charge of the game.

Do the non-Dublin referees have to pay taxes on the contents of the brown envelopes - and if they did would they have to pay them to the Queen or to the Irish Government?!

[MickNolan]

This would be more appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

You my friend are mentally disturbed..

[peadar1987]

I think it is important that we eradicate this worrying pro-Derry bias from non-Dublin refs.

Did you know that Derry's win rate at home is only about 30% when they have a Dublin man as referee, but that it jumps to about 60% when someone from outside the capital takes charge?

Thanks for pointing this out Candystripe! :)

[dcfcsteve]

I don't buy into the idea of an anti-Derry conspiracvy, or even necessarily the idea that a Dublin ref will autmoatically favour a Dublin team.

I also think the stats you've provided here Candystripe are relatively meaningless without being over-layed with the teams we were playing against. We continually register some disappointing results against teams we should be beating over the years, for example. That's why we haven't won the league in 20 years - we're not consistent.

A Harps fan could do a similar analysis of the various refs who've covered the north-west derby, and then conclude that a number of them have a pro-City bias. They don't - it's just that we almost always beat Harps.

Also - what if the Dublin ref was a Bohs fan, and the game concerned was City versus Rovers ? Would the Dub ref still automatically favour the Dub team ?

The refs in our league are poor full-stop. Claiming that their judgements are more the outcome of design than crapness is just giving them more credit than they deserve.

[CameramanConka]

So Derry must have an incredibly high % win rate when you have a non-Dublin official in charge of the game.

Do the non-Dublin referees have to pay taxes on the contents of the brown envelopes - and if they did would they have to pay them to the Queen or to the Irish Government?!

Gone away and **** yourself with that aul queen crap. Seriously.

[MickNolan]

Sure everybody moans about the refs in this league. Why do you have to make a big deal about it blaming them on being against youse?

[EalingGreen]

That's why we haven't won the league in 20 years - we're not consistent.

Surely not winning the League for 20 years is the definition of consistency, not inconsistency... ;)

[topia]

I don't buy into the idea of an anti-Derry conspiracvy, or even necessarily the idea that a Dublin ref will autmoatically favour a Dublin team.

I also think the stats you've provided here Candystripe are relatively meaningless without being over-layed with the teams we were playing against. We continually register some disappointing results against teams we should be beating over the years, for example. That's why we haven't won the league in 20 years - we're not consistent.

A Harps fan could do a similar analysis of the various refs who've covered the north-west derby, and then conclude that a number of them have a pro-City bias. They don't - it's just that we almost always beat Harps.

Also - what if the Dublin ref was a Bohs fan, and the game concerned was City versus Rovers ? Would the Dub ref still automatically favour the Dub team ?

The refs in our league are poor full-stop. Claiming that their judgements are more the outcome of design than crapness is just giving them more credit than they deserve.

a derry fan that sees sense i dont know how many times i have had this conversation with derry fans about dublin refs, every time i have to point out the amount of teams and rivalries in dublin and that a ref who was a rovers fan would surely be more likely to favour derry in a derry-bohs match... to no avail though, there seems to be a lot of paranoid people in derry!

[Candystripe]

there seems to be a lot of paranoid people in derry!


What?, who said that? :rolleyes::rolleyes::cool:

Is a football forum not about disscussing football stats and win rates?

BTW That was an email sent to someone else which was posted on our forum.

I do get what you's are saying and would like to see the stats when we have a non Dublin ref.

[dcfcsteve]

Surely not winning the League for 20 years is the definition of consistency, not inconsistency... ;)

Given we were robbed out of the lesgue on goal difference in 2006 by a Shels team who were demoted months later due to the financial shenanigans that had bought them the league that year, we have been more consistent in that regard than we rightly should have been..... :)

[LeixlipRed]

Given we were robbed out of the lesgue on goal difference in 2006 by a Shels team who were demoted months later due to the financial shenanigans that had bought them the league that year, we have been more consistent in that regard than we rightly should have been..... :)

You were robbed or weren't good enough? Dublin City may I remind you...

[dancinpants]

Surely not winning the League for 20 years is the definition of consistency, not inconsistency... ;)

Hate to say it but thats pretty funny :D

[HarpoJoyce]

(Dublin) Hello/Howaya/Hi


(Whisper) What part of Dublin? That sorta stuff is important.

[brianw82]

Wow, I can't wait to see how this thread turns out. No doubt it will transcend all known philosophers and scientific wisdom.

This thing about "Dublin refs reffing games with Dublin teams" is a load of bull. We have to face facts here. Dublin has over 1/4 of the Republic's population. A ref/official is more likely to be from Dublin than any other specific part of the country. Finally, do non-Dubliners REALLY think that a ref from Donabate or Ballsbridge is likely to favour St. Pats in a game against Sligo Rovers? He might never have been in Inchicore in his life!

[dcfcsteve]

You were robbed or weren't good enough? Dublin City may I remind you...

Err - robbed. Though thanks for asking.

Both our teams finished the season on the same number of points. One got thrown out of the Premier Division afterwards for financfial irregularities. That pretty much answers your own questions.

[Red&White Rover]

RRS goes North of the Border.

[Candystripe]

Derry have only been awarded one penalty in the last 18 months home or away in the league.

Does anyone have a worse record in the premier?

[Réiteoir]

I'd wager the consistently high sales of tinfoil hats up in the North is the only highlight of the ongoing financial chaos affecting the world today...

[LeixlipRed]

Err - robbed. Though thanks for asking.

Both our teams finished the season on the same number of points. One got thrown out of the Premier Division afterwards for financfial irregularities. That pretty much answers your own questions.

Both finished equal after you'd had a loss to Dublin City expunged and we'd had a win expunged :)

[LeixlipRed]

Derry have only been awarded one penalty in the last 18 months home or away in the league.

Does anyone have a worse record in the premier?

Maybe your players should fall over more in the box?

[Candystripe]

Maybe your players should fall over more in the box?

They don't fall over, they get their legs chopped in half,defenders can feel free to handle the ball whenever they want as nothing is ever given,our players can get dragged back,tripped up and even shot,but they still won't be awarded a penalty :confused::confused::confused:

[peadar1987]

They don't fall over, they get their legs chopped in half,defenders can feel free to handle the ball whenever they want as nothing is ever given,our players can get dragged back,tripped up and even shot,but they still won't be awarded a penalty :confused::confused::confused:

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that time when Farren was dragged into the penalty area by the entire Bohs back 4, tied to the post and riddled with bullets from their Tommy guns. I thought that was a bit out of line alright.

[LeixlipRed]

They don't fall over, they get their legs chopped in half,defenders can feel free to handle the ball whenever they want as nothing is ever given,our players can get dragged back,tripped up and even shot,but they still won't be awarded a penalty

:eek:

[Rovers fan]

In fairness, the last two times I've been at the Brandywell, I felt we were very lucky to not concede penalties (a few at that) and we also had a number of other decisions go against us.

[Rovers fan]

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that time when Farren was dragged into the penalty area by the entire Bohs back 4, tied to the post and riddled with bullets from their Tommy guns. I thought that was a bit out of line alright.

No way was that a peno. Sure the diving fecker got up and played on.

[dcfcsteve]

Both finished equal after you'd had a loss to Dublin City expunged and we'd had a win expunged :)

You bought the league with money you didn't have - end of story.

That's whay you were kicked out of the Premier and the Champions League only 3 months later.

Dublin City my arse...... :rolleyes:

[A N Mouse]

You bought the league with money you didn't have - end of story.

That's whay you were kicked out of the Premier and the Champions League only 3 months later.

Dublin City my arse...... :rolleyes:

OR to bring it, slight more, back on topic useless refs, questionably, sending off the goalkeeper when you're comfortably two goals to the good against your title rivals, and don't have recognised goalkeeper on the bench :o

[dcfcsteve]

OR to bring it, slight more, back on topic useless refs, questionably, sending off the goalkeeper when you're comfortably two goals to the good against your title rivals, and don't have recognised goalkeeper on the bench :o

Indeed. SK has to take the blame for that managerial error.

But the bottom line is that She;s should have been nowhere near the summit of the league at that point anyway, as they were cheating with money they didn't have.

Hence why the league dropped them 12 places only a couple of months later.

[pineapple stu]

OR to bring it, slight more, back on topic useless refs, questionably, sending off the goalkeeper when you're comfortably two goals to the good against your title rivals, and don't have recognised goalkeeper on the bench :o
Sounds to me more like a useless keeper committing a professional foul outside the area and a useless manager not having a sub keeper.

I didn't notice this thread when UCD were denied a blatant penalty against youz in the first game of last season. Funny that.

[marinobohs]

Hence why the league dropped them 12 places only a couple of months later.

The same League that decided not to strip them of the title ? seems a bit ironic quoting one decision of the League (relegation) and ignorig the same authorities decision that Shels were Champions.

Anyway can derry fans not just blame it (like everything else bad ) on Pat Fenlon ? :)

[Krstic]

A blind man could see that LOI referees are just bad at their job full stop.
I don't know how many times I've questioned whether an Official, either referee or Linesman, actually knows the rules of the game.
Terence Moyne certainly doesn't.

I think the officials are like everything else in the league.....................Poor.

[dcfcsteve]

The same League that decided not to strip them of the title ? seems a bit ironic quoting one decision of the League (relegation) and ignorig the same authorities decision that Shels were Champions.

Anyway can derry fans not just blame it (like everything else bad ) on Pat Fenlon ? :)

Where did I even mention Pat the Rat....? :confused:

Personally speaking - I didn't want the title stripped from Shels and given to City, as it wouldn't have been the same. Even if the FAI did take every other decision against Shels (stripped of premier place, stripped of CL spot).

Anyways - enough of the bad old days.

[SkStu]

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that time when Farren was dragged into the penalty area by the entire Bohs back 4, tied to the post and riddled with bullets from their Tommy guns. I thought that was a bit out of line alright.

thats brilliant!! :D :D

[Candystripe]

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that time when Farren was dragged into the penalty area by the entire Bohs back 4, tied to the post and riddled with bullets from their Tommy guns. I thought that was a bit out of line alright.

No,it was Sammy Morrow in the Buttimer cup final when he was attacked by 3 Bohs players inside the box. :eek:

[LeixlipRed]

OR to bring it, slight more, back on topic useless refs, questionably, sending off the goalkeeper when you're comfortably two goals to the good against your title rivals, and don't have recognised goalkeeper on the bench :o

:o It's the refs fault you had no sub keeper was it? He deserved to go too, ref had no choice.

[A N Mouse]

:o It's the refs fault you had no sub keeper was it? He deserved to go too, ref had no choice.

It was a reckless challenge and he probably deserved to go. There was however enough leeway for the ref to issue only a yellow. A conspiracy theorist would link the colour of the card to the lack of a keeper on the bench.

I don't believe in the conspiracy myself. Its the incredibly poor standard of reffin, for all teams. In saying that we seem to fall victim to it when it most matters - if anyone would like to dig up footage of our first FAI cup final, or our last - just as examples.

The fai keep going on about how they're leading the way with licensing. Its about time they started leading the way with referees [preferably toward the door for most of our current crop ;)] and making them more accountable for their decisions would be a first step.

[micls]

It was a reckless challenge and he probably deserved to go. There was however enough leeway for the ref to issue only a yellow. A conspiracy theorist would link the colour of the card to the lack of a keeper on the bench.

I don't believe in the conspiracy myself. Its the incredibly poor standard of reffin,

:confused: You say he deserved to go, yet it was as a result of the poor standard of reffin(rather than a conspiracy) that he got sent off....

[marinobohs]

.

I don't believe in the conspiracy myself. Its the incredibly poor standard of reffin, for all teams. In saying that we seem to fall victim to it when it most matters - if anyone would like to dig up footage of our first FAI cup final, or our last - just as examples..

or footage of the crazy 2nd yellow Anto Murphy got for diving after he was brought down by the Derry keeper in the League game at Dalyer last season (thats OK because Derry won) or footage of Bohs playing with ten men in the 2nd half at the Brandywell after derry manager (mad Felix) attacked bohs player (James Coll i think) at half time.etc etc etc

all fans recall decisions that went against them, and if they are honest, decisions that went for them.

[A N Mouse]

:confused: You say he deserved to go, yet it was as a result of the poor standard of reffin(rather than a conspiracy) that he got sent off....


or footage of the crazy 2nd yellow Anto Murphy got for diving after he was brought down by the Derry keeper in the League game at Dalyer last season (thats OK because Derry won) or footage of Bohs playing with ten men in the 2nd half at the Brandywell after derry manager (mad Felix) attacked bohs player (James Coll i think) at half time.etc etc etc

all fans recall decisions that went against them, and if they are honest, decisions that went for them.

Appologies if I haven't made my point clearly.

The conspiracy I was refering to was the one of dublin bias among the refs. I don't believe this. I do believe that the poor standard of refs effects all teams, to a greater or lesser extent, throughout the season.

And as marinobohs points out there are certain incidents which as a Derry fan I feel particularly aggrieved about. And, only we're out of the league cup, getting robbed in an FAI cup final was a good omen before ;)

I brought up the red card against shels to counter claims from leixlipred that it was only the dublin city debacle that saw goal difference decide the league. It was an example of a decision that went against Derry when it mattered.

Was the ref justified in sending jennings off? Yes
Could he have let him stay on the field? Yes

Micls, I'm not trying to use this as an example of poor officiating. It does however serve to highlight the standard of refereeing, simply because I can ask how consistently would you expect that same decision to be made [by different refs, for/against certain teams]? And how consistently should you expect it to be made?

[razor]

it does highlight that Dublin officials are handed big games which generally are against Dublin clubs.Think of the alternatives, you don't want to be drawing the likes of Buttimer or Anders on yourselves.

[Candystripe]

OMG Derry get awarded a penalty tonight :)

Do referees read this forum?