UCD

[John83]

Would have assumed that our guardians of the peace would think it in the public's interest to send a few to gatherings of this kind? Especially considering that they are decent pay and pension to serve the public I would have thought it nonsense that they ask for donations or whatever they call it

Probably too busy sitting in their cars in Mungret waiting for one speeding car to pass per three hours though
I don't want to start an argument over it, but Limerick are arranging the event for profit. I think it's reasonable that they pay for the necessary security.

[jebus]

I don't want to start an argument over it, but Limerick are arranging the event for profit. I think it's reasonable that they pay for the necessary security.

From a security firm yes, from public servants no

[gaidin]

From a security firm yes, from public servants no

Its true at all sporting events though..If you want an extra garda presence you have to pay for it....

[KevB76]

I don't want to start an argument over it, but Limerick are arranging the event for profit. I think it's reasonable that they pay for the necessary security.

:eek:

Mods, please move this post to the appropriate thread :
http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=1816

[jebus]

Its true at all sporting events though..If you want an extra garda presence you have to pay for it....

I realise that. It's the practice I'm criticising, not that Limerick FC have to pay.

If there's a gathering of citizens on this island, especially at an event where there's a higher chance for public disorder then surely the Gardai should have a visable presence, isn't that what they get paid for? To maintain public peace?

[gaidin]

I realise that. It's the practice I'm criticising, not that Limerick FC have to pay.

If there's a gathering of citizens on this island, especially at an event where there's a higher chance for public disorder then surely the Gardai should have a visable presence, isn't that what they get paid for? To maintain public peace?

Oh ya, I agree with what your saying. The gardai should have a presence. But to them its all about resources, budget, etc, etc.


Its same all over europe (for football games anyway) as far as I know...

[osarusan]

If there's a gathering of citizens on this island, especially at an event where there's a higher chance for public disorder then surely the Gardai should have a visable presence, isn't that what they get paid for? To maintain public peace?
I'd go along with John83 and say that when a private company has chosen to organise a public gathering (especially when they are charging admission to this event) they should be responsible for maintaining public order.

By your argument above, wouldn't the police need to be stationed (for example) inside loads of bars and nightclubs where there are hundreds of drunk people and some chance of public disorder?

[LK37oldskool]

while not disagreeing with you there always seems to be extra gardai outside the ground at the end of games,as there does at the end of the night when clubs and bars close.Maybe its to do with public areas like the main roads ect,as opposed to inside private land (clubs,bars,sports grounds) which might be outside their remit.

[Johnnie C]

Decent game at last. Some of the games at Jackman this season have been awful.
Why did they seat the terrace though and are they going to continue to enforce no standing there now ?

[jebus]

I'd go along with John83 and say that when a private company has chosen to organise a public gathering (especially when they are charging admission to this event) they should be responsible for maintaining public order.

By your argument above, wouldn't the police need to be stationed (for example) inside loads of bars and nightclubs where there are hundreds of drunk people and some chance of public disorder?

They have paid security inside so its not needed, but I do think there should be more Gardai in and around the nightclub areas alright, ditto big pubs

It is their job to protect the peace and serve this island's citizens no? If there is a chance that some of this island's citizens will break that peace (i.e. the Pats and especially the Shels games) then surely it is their job to be at said event to do their job? Am I the only one that thinks this? I actually wouldn't mind them saying that they don't have the resources, but I think it's appalling that they ask for a fee to do a job they are already being paid to do.


while not disagreeing with you there always seems to be extra gardai outside the ground at the end of games,as there does at the end of the night when clubs and bars close.Maybe its to do with public areas like the main roads ect,as opposed to inside private land (clubs,bars,sports grounds) which might be outside their remit.

It's not outside their remit if they are allowed into the ground/pub/whatever by it's owners with the specific instructions of keeping the peace. If they have the resources to do this if they get that extra payment then they have the resources to do it, full stop and should do so if asked

[osarusan]

They have paid security inside so its not needed

But if a bar owner chose not to pay for security, he could effectively force the police to be his security, couldn't he?


It is their job to protect the peace and serve this island's citizens no? If there is a chance that some of this island's citizens will break that peace (i.e. the Pats and especially the Shels games) then surely it is their job to be at said event to do their job? Am I the only one that thinks this? I actually wouldn't mind them saying that they don't have the resources, but I think it's appalling that they ask for a fee to do a job they are already being paid to do.

No doubt that they are paid to protect the peace, but I don't think that necessarily extends to a duty to do it everywhere. Limerick, by choosing to have a football team playing matches, are creating the possibility of disorder. I think it is right that if Limerick want a police presence inside the ground, they should have to pay for it.

I do agree with your point that the "we don't have the resources" line suddenly disappears if they will be paid for it.

[jebus]

But if a bar owner chose not to pay for security, he could effectively force the police to be his security, couldn't he?

Non-point really as a nightclub or large bar wouldn't be given a license to operate by the Gardai without assurances that they would have security and so the Gardai will have done their bit to ensure the peace is kept somewhat on the premises. If he chose not to pay security in a large venue he wouldn't be allowed open by the Gardai. As far as I'm aware there is no such requirement when seeking a license from the FAI


No doubt that they are paid to protect the peace, but I don't think that necessarily extends to a duty to do it everywhere. Limerick, by choosing to have a football team playing matches, are creating the possibility of disorder. I think it is right that if Limerick want a police presence inside the ground, they should have to pay for it.

You see I belive that it is their duty to police everywhere within reason (obviously they shouldn't be allowed walk into a premises without just cause or without permission), but if they are asked to police a public event then I feel they should either comply or decline and give their reasons why. I'm against this policy of public servants asking for what I would deem a bit of cash under the table to do their job.

As for having a police presence inside the ground, well someone here has stated there is normally a presence outside the ground, and even if you don't believe that the Gardai should be inside the ground without payment you must agree that they need to police the streets after such a gathering right? Assuming you do then why wouldn't they have a presence inside the ground if invited to do so to act as a deterrent?

[redron]

Non-point really as a nightclub or large bar wouldn't be given a license to operate by the Gardai without assurances that they would have security and so the Gardai will have done their bit to ensure the peace is kept somewhat on the premises. If he chose not to pay security in a large venue he wouldn't be allowed open by the Gardai. As far as I'm aware there is no such requirement when seeking a license from the FAI

Of course the FAI licencing process requires that you provide security. The checklist the match delegate works off has various boxes to be ticked for stewarding.

Whether paid or voluntary, all stewards are supposed to be trained.
All stewards are supposed to be in place at their stations an hour before kick-off, which is when the turnstiles are supposed to open to the public.
Everyone working in the ground should have a briefing meeting before the ground is open to the public.

AFAIK, everyone working for the club on match nights is a volunteer.
Given the reliance on volunteering, the above is very difficult to achieve on a consistent basis (it would be difficult enough even if people were getting paid). For starters, people live busy lives, and whether it's work or other commitments, along with Limerick's terrible traffic problems, it's difficult to have everyone in the ground for 6:15pm to have a meeting.

The ground may be open to the public for approx 3 hours on a match night (the match itself lasts about 1hr50mins), but that entails 3.5-4 hours work for those working there. This is quite a lot of free labour that volunteers are donating to the club. However, without this generous contribution the club could not survive (the club is running at a loss as it is, so adding extra labour costs would virtually wipe out the average remaining match night income).


All this discussion, which is now spreading over 2 threads, should be in a thread of its own.