Padraig Smith in Indo today, predicts .......... [Archive]

Buile Shuibhne

07/05/2009, 3:12 PM

...... And in light of their recently leaked financial documentation, which showed an operating debt of over €1m for 2008, are Bohemians in danger of overspending this year?

“The Salary Cost Protocol is a big issue for them this year,” says Smith.

“But that goes without saying, when you have salaries that are so high and the other side of the business not generating sufficient income to match that expenditure, it’s obviously worrying.

“We’ve met with the club and the club is well aware of its obligations and the rules and the sanctions for breaching those rules.

“It will be an issue, and it is something that we will be monitoring throughout the season and we’ ll know by the end of the year if they’ve breached it. If they do breach it, they will be sanctioned accordingly by relegation and non-participation in Europe.

................ I think we could see more ‘Kilkenny Citys’ (who dropped out of senior football in 2008) this year,” he added

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/smith-wary-of-further-dropouts-1731316.html

Longfordian

07/05/2009, 3:14 PM

I read that. It sounds like he's hoping more clubs drop out by his remarks. I'd be worried if I were a Bohs fan, it sounds to me like the knives are out for them for going against the FAI's advice.

A face

07/05/2009, 3:28 PM

I read that. It sounds like he's hoping more clubs drop out by his remarks. I'd be worried if I were a Bohs fan, it sounds to me like the knives are out for them for going against the FAI's advice.

Are the two Gerrys still at the helm yeah?

Longfordian

07/05/2009, 3:29 PM

One of them is apparently. The other "retired" I believe.

John83

07/05/2009, 3:42 PM

He's mentioned that 'Kilkenny City' thing before. I wonder who he means.

Bohs struggling will surprise no one.

I read that. It sounds like he's hoping more clubs drop out by his remarks. I'd be worried if I were a Bohs fan, it sounds to me like the knives are out for them for going against the FAI's advice.
It's pretty clear from their numbers that Bohs aren't in a good shape financially. It's Smith's job to be against that.

Umberside

07/05/2009, 3:42 PM

Are the two Gerrys still at the helm yeah?

Gerry Cuffe was replaced as president by Robert Dunne last month.

Mr A

07/05/2009, 3:50 PM

He's mentioned that 'Kilkenny City' thing before. I wonder who he means.

Bohs struggling will surprise no one.

It's pretty clear from their numbers that Bohs aren't in a good shape financially. It's Smith's job to be against that.

Quite possibly us. Harps are in a bad state at the moment. We are still paying for last year's disaster, many in and around the club are completely disillusioned, the team is crap, the manager a massively controversial figure that only the board still back and there is damn all in the way of sponsorship and advertising revenue coming in. Furthermore we've gone to the well of public sympathy far too often so it's hard to see much of a response when the real crisis comes.

Still though, there's always examinership :)

Longfordian

07/05/2009, 4:04 PM

He's mentioned that 'Kilkenny City' thing before. I wonder who he means.

Bohs struggling will surprise no one.

It's pretty clear from their numbers that Bohs aren't in a good shape financially. It's Smith's job to be against that.

Oh, I know that. Just saying that they needn't expect any leniency if and when things go pear shaped. He makes a point of mentioning volunteer run clubs as something he doesn't feel belongs in senior soccer. So draw your own conclusions as to who he means. We'd be one of them I'd guess. Not that we're in any particular immediate danger, I just don't think he's a believer in the concept.

passerrby

07/05/2009, 4:12 PM

two years ago he was a believer in the great stides that clubs like drogs and cork were making and was holding them up as a leading light to us all so it proves that he opinion is like mind deeply flawed

Longfordian

07/05/2009, 4:13 PM

I'd tend to agree with you there. He has to take some of the blame for his compliance systems not working. Obviously it's mainly the clubs at fault but he's not totally blameless as he tends to make out.

pineapple stu

07/05/2009, 4:37 PM

He makes a point of mentioning volunteer run clubs as something he doesn't feel belongs in senior soccer. So draw your own conclusions as to who he means.
So basically, by "more Kilkenny Citys", he's essentially referring to Kilkenny City type clubs, and not clubs who may or may not be millions in debt?

blackholesun

07/05/2009, 4:53 PM

Good to see the FAI are on the ball this time around, can't see myself how it is in any possible they'll be complaint but we'll see.

bhs

Ezeikial

07/05/2009, 5:56 PM

Who are these 3 clubs?

“We rejected seven budgets from three clubs, those three clubs came back to us and said, ‘listen you’re right,’ and they adjusted their budgets and in one case a second and third time.
“There are one or two clubs however that decided, ‘look we still think we can do this’ and they went and put more money into players than we thought was right in the current climate.
“We advised them of a certain figure and agreed a certain figure with them, but they still decided to go on and spend more than that.”

I presume that these 3 clubs are easily identified.

Who are they?

pól-dcfc

07/05/2009, 5:59 PM

The ones who they sent away but just decided to plough away on their own have to be Bohemians and either us or Cork I would imagine

sligoman

07/05/2009, 6:04 PM

Who are they?We're one. Not sure of others.

Macy

08/05/2009, 8:34 AM

He has to take some of the blame for his compliance systems not working. Obviously it's mainly the clubs at fault but he's not totally blameless as he tends to make out.
At this stage it's as much on the FAI as the clubs. We've had licencing for over 5 years at this stage - how long is going to take them to actually get it working properly?

pineapple stu

08/05/2009, 8:36 AM

We're one. Not sure of others.
It was on here at the time. You and Bohs were definites; were Harps the other?

Mr A

08/05/2009, 8:41 AM

We have been. Certainly though we're (thankfully) spending a lot less than the original budget that was voted through. Whether our final budget was agreed with the FAI or not I'm not sure though.

Redie

08/05/2009, 9:26 AM

We're one. Not sure of others.

I'd be fairly sure that Rovers are one of the clubs referred to here....“We rejected seven budgets from three clubs, those three clubs came back to us and said, ‘listen you’re right,’ and they adjusted their budgets and in one case a second and third time.

Longfordian

08/05/2009, 9:36 AM

So basically, by "more Kilkenny Citys", he's essentially referring to Kilkenny City type clubs, and not clubs who may or may not be millions in debt?

Clubs who he feels will and in his opinion should drop out of "senior soccer" would be how I read it. They don't have the proper structures to allow themselves get millions in debt.

SMorgan

08/05/2009, 9:41 AM

Rovers Maniac

08/05/2009, 9:50 AM

I'd be fairly sure that Rovers are one of the clubs referred to here....“We rejected seven budgets from three clubs, those three clubs came back to us and said, ‘listen you’re right,’ and they adjusted their budgets and in one case a second and third time.

Pretty sure thats us alright, that is being talked about.

pineapple stu

08/05/2009, 9:51 AM

Clubs who he feels will and in his opinion should drop out of "senior soccer" would be how I read it. They don't have the proper structures to allow themselves get millions in debt.
Yep, which is of course complete nonsense. His opinion is irrelevant when it comes to deciding who should or shouldn't be in senior football, and the smaller clubs aren't the problem at present.

Beginning to like this lad less and less the more others say about him. :)

passerrby

08/05/2009, 1:03 PM

Yep, which is of course complete nonsense. His opinion is irrelevant when it comes to deciding who should or shouldn't be in senior football, and the smaller clubs aren't the problem at present.

Beginning to like this lad less and less the more others say about him. :)

never met the manbut from speaking to people who have I believehis intentions are entirley hounourable. I think he is trying to work a system that is unworkable

John83

08/05/2009, 2:31 PM

never met the manbut from speaking to people who have I believehis intentions are entirley hounourable. I think he is trying to work a system that is unworkable
I think he's just saying that there are clubs which just won't ba able to keep up with the top clubs once they're run right. He may be right, but I wish he'd just shut up about it until he presides over a season where the top clubs aren't flirting with bankruptcy.

Cosmo

09/05/2009, 9:58 PM

Umberside

09/05/2009, 10:02 PM

I see Dundalk have called a meeting for their supporters on thursday re: the clubs finances!!

Here is a post from their forum.

The leaflets were being handed out from the booth where you buy the match tickets. It's a meeting organised by GM in the Lilywhite Lounge on Thursday night regarding club finances. I think it's at 8pm, I'm not positive though as I don't have the leaflet anymore. It was printed in bold on it something along the lines of; If you are concerned about the future of Dundalk FC you should attend this meeting..

Anyone know if theyre in the sh*t or close to it?

I really can't imagine they'd be in trouble already.

Celdrog

10/05/2009, 2:20 AM

If, come the end of the season, there is a problem with Bohs the FAI will find a way to side step it. Just look at Drogheda United. The case against them getting a premier licence was cast-iron. The FAI got around the fact that United Park isn't fit to host a junior game by relying on the fact that An Bord Pleanala were considering an appeal against a stadium proposal that everybody had given up on.Lets conveniently forget that the FAI decided to upgrade United Park to make it comply. Seats, toilets etc.
But hey, let Sid stay in his bubble. Worry about your own club mate, you are starting to sound like Sean Connor:D

brianw82

10/05/2009, 12:51 PM

Ezeikial

10/05/2009, 4:21 PM

I would hazard a guess that it´s to do with Connor´s statement about the financial gap between them and the likes of Bohs, perhaps some fundraising initiatives are being planned?

Sean Connor's statement was clear about the timescale involved in starting to close this gap:

"Last Friday night we played against a team with a wage bill three times the size of ours. That is a huge gap. We don’t need to close it this season but we need to start closing it over the next 2-3 seasons. We need to make it sustainable. Whatever increases in budget occur need to be well managed and projected into the future. That’s where the supporters come in."

Equally, the board of Dundalk have stated that the fans forum is related to discussions on how supporters can help the clubs fundraising plans for the remainder of the season.

The more that the supporter base and the wider business community are intricably involved in all aspects (particularly financial) the stronger any club becomes as a consequence.

In any case, surely this is way off-topic as regards Padraig Smith and the Indo article?

stamullendrog

10/05/2009, 4:58 PM

Sean Connor's statement was clear about the timescale involved in starting to close this gap:

"Last Friday night we played against a team with a wage bill three times the size of ours. That is a huge gap. We don’t need to close it this season but we need to start closing it over the next 2-3 seasons. We need to make it sustainable. Whatever increases in budget occur need to be well managed and projected into the future. That’s where the supporters come in."

Equally, the board of Dundalk have stated that the fans forum is related to discussions on how supporters can help the clubs fundraising plans for the remainder of the season.

The more that the supporter base and the wider business community are intricably involved in all aspects (particularly financial) the stronger any club becomes as a consequence.

In any case, surely this is way off-topic as regards Padraig Smith and the Indo article?

not really way off topic given he was talking about clubs finances is it?

Angus

13/05/2009, 7:10 AM

I think he's just saying that there are clubs which just won't ba able to keep up with the top clubs once they're run right. He may be right, but I wish he'd just shut up about it until he presides over a season where the top clubs aren't flirting with bankruptcy.

I look at slightly differently - the SCP is in year 3 (maybe 2?) and fundamentally it is working. Remember that the number provides for a % of "turnover" - turnover in this case is defined as normal sales (tickets, merchandise etc) and gifts from wealthy types ie non refundable "investment".

However that is a maximum - the clubs can spend less on salaries if they like - fundamentally this is about the complete inability of clubs to manage themselves even remotely commercially. 90% of players were out of contract last winter so any clubs probelsm could be solved at a stroke - yes I am an accountant but I don't need years of training to come up with the answer:

"Pay them less" - the end.

Finally even if a club remains within the SCP, they can still act like idiots and bankrupt themselves - they have that right and clearly that ability. Blame the clubs for this.

We need to drop the Champions League pipedream thing - it isn't going to happen - so stop thinking you cna buy all the good players and run it that way - it won't work so sti down, think, listen, read, consider, shut up and spend less

pineapple stu

13/05/2009, 8:57 AM

the SCP is in year 3 (maybe 2?) and fundamentally it is working.
On what basis do you think it's working?

I think that the recession and the Revenue Audits sparked by Shels' iffy practices have done infinitely more than licencing to bring clubs back to reality.

Marco

13/05/2009, 9:12 AM

I for one don't want to see any clubs leave the league, the likes of Drogheda & Dundalk are doing a lot of work in their local communities to promote both their clubs and football. The league needs these clubs and the others in all parts of the country, otherwise it will be a case of the bigger clubs taking their pick on the very best players and the rest playing catch up. What Padraig Smith is doing is helping clubs to help themselves and run more proffessionally, that's not a bad thing is it.

dong

13/05/2009, 2:15 PM

I see Dundalk have called a meeting for their supporters on thursday re: the clubs finances!!

Here is a post from their forum.

The leaflets were being handed out from the booth where you buy the match tickets. It's a meeting organised by GM in the Lilywhite Lounge on Thursday night regarding club finances. I think it's at 8pm, I'm not positive though as I don't have the leaflet anymore. It was printed in bold on it something along the lines of; If you are concerned about the future of Dundalk FC you should attend this meeting..

Anyone know if theyre in the sh*t or close to it?
Nice to see you're so delighted at the prospect of them being in financial trouble...
Very small minded, especially considering the river of sh*t your own club is sinking in at the moment.

pól-dcfc

13/05/2009, 2:37 PM

I see Dundalk have called a meeting for their supporters on thursday re: the clubs finances!!

Here is a post from their forum.

The leaflets were being handed out from the booth where you buy the match tickets. It's a meeting organised by GM in the Lilywhite Lounge on Thursday night regarding club finances. I think it's at 8pm, I'm not positive though as I don't have the leaflet anymore. It was printed in bold on it something along the lines of; If you are concerned about the future of Dundalk FC you should attend this meeting..

Anyone know if theyre in the sh*t or close to it?
Nice to see you're so delighted at the prospect of them being in financial trouble...
Very small minded, especially considering the river of sh*t your own club is sinking in at the moment.

I can't see what part of his post comes across to you as delight.

jinxy lilywhite

13/05/2009, 2:46 PM

Well to allay the hopes of certain supporters of DUFC, the argus today said in an interview with CEO Gerry Matthews that "the finances of the club are not bleak and the club is not in trouble, but the club is not looking for trouble" According to the Argus, Gerry Matthews goes on to say that "we need a dedicated group of strong individuals to help with fundraising and initiatives to move forward". Anothe point was that attendence where good but not as predicted. (Begs to wonder what the projected attendences where)

BTW: I checked Argus website and it was not updated yet. I am going by memory also as i read this @ 10:30.

pól-dcfc

13/05/2009, 2:49 PM

According to the Argus, Gerry Matthews goes on to say that "we need a dedicated group of strong individuals to help with fundraising and initiatives to move forward"..

This is key for all clubs, and will become more important this season, due to falling attendances and the general economic downturn. We're trying to get a few things sorted at Derry now in the next few weeks. It's sensible to call an open meeting for potential volunteers.

Umberside

13/05/2009, 3:13 PM

This is key for all clubs, and will become more important this season, due to falling attendances and the general economic downturn. We're trying to get a few things sorted at Derry now in the next few weeks. It's sensible to call an open meeting for potential volunteers.

By the way what happened the roof at the Brandywell? It's seems to be off one week and on the other! I thought after watching the Sligo game the roof was back but then it went missing again against Bohs?

pól-dcfc

13/05/2009, 3:17 PM

By the way what happened the roof at the Brandywell? It's seems to be off one week and on the other! I thought after watching the Sligo game the roof was back but then it went missing again against Bohs?

Nah, it's been gone since the Finn Harps play off. On the games where we are shown live, the camera points to the New Stand, which is roofed. On the MNS highlights, the camera points to the old Jungle and the Glentoran Stand. The Glentoran has a roof, but it's very small, and the old Jungle is the large uncovered area.

Umberside

13/05/2009, 3:23 PM

Nah, it's been gone since the Finn Harps play off. On the games where we are shown live, the camera points to the New Stand, which is roofed. On the MNS highlights, the camera points to the old Jungle and the Glentoran Stand. The Glentoran has a roof, but it's very small, and the old Jungle is the large uncovered area.

OK, so they move across to the other side of the pitch for MNS highlights? But why don't they just use the same camera for all games?

Angus

13/05/2009, 3:30 PM

On what basis do you think it's working?

I think that the recession and the Revenue Audits sparked by Shels' iffy practices have done infinitely more than licencing to bring clubs back to reality.

On the basis that we rae having this discussion. In history of things that worked perfectly, there was a time, firstly, where they didnt exist and, secondly, where they worked less than perfectly

I see this SCP thing being in that latter category - is it working properly ? No. Is it nearly there ? prob not but is it on the right track ? yes

fionnsci

13/05/2009, 3:32 PM

OK, so they move across to the other side of the pitch for MNS highlights? But why don't they just use the same camera for all games?

Actually, do Galway do a similar thing? I remember watching live games towards the end of last year with the camera facing the new stand but the highlights I've seen so far this year have shown the old stand.

pól-dcfc

13/05/2009, 3:37 PM

OK, so they move across to the other side of the pitch for MNS highlights? But why don't they just use the same camera for all games?

As far as I know, for the live games, RTÉ put up a temporary gantry and film from there. The club doesn't have the money/will to build a permanent gantry at that side, so the cameras are operated from the New Stand.

pineapple stu

13/05/2009, 3:44 PM

is it on the right track ? yes
I'm not sure I even agree with this. Clubs seem to flaunt it openly, with no fear of redress. Drogheda last year must (and unfortunately, educted assumption is all we can really go on) have broken the 65% rule, and nothing happened. Bohs last year appear to have reallocated players' wages to circumvent the problem, yet nothing happened. This year will be interesting for Bohs in particular as, without the E1m from Liam Carroll, they'll be well over the limit. Then we'll see if the SCP is rhetoric or real.