Palestine

[liam88]

Can somebody explain the link with Palestine and the Republicans in Nord Iron. I've seen all the murals, flags and the "Penta-gone" graffiti from the September 12th. I have this rough outline but can someone confirm what the link is.
Thanks. :)

[TheRealRovers]

I think it’s to do with the 6 counties being occupied by a foreign country and Palestine also being occupied just like the links with the Basque region

[Éanna]

Originally posted by TheRealRovers
I think it’s to do with the 6 counties being occupied by a foreign country and Palestine also being occupied just like the links with the Basque region
yeah thats about it. There's also been links between the Sinn Féin, Herri Batasuna in the Basque Country and the PLO, and lots of rumours (probably true) of collaboration between the armed movements in those struggles.

[TheRealRovers]

Rangers fans in the north support Israel because they are both settlers. BTW it's not just in the north or Park Head where you will Palestine flags you can often see them at eL grounds too.

[Éanna]

Originally posted by Conor74
Well, as Israel is an 'artificial' state created by the British which has led to the displacement and degradation of Palestinians, I suppose the parallels with NI would always be made. The appearance of Palestinian symolism at football games may be more of an anti-semitic matter though, particularly when it comes to Ajax. Another famous one is the 'hissing gas' noise directed at Ajax and Spurs fans.

Rangers have many Jewish connections so hard to know what exactly motivates Celtic fans more. I understand that Rangers fans have taken to displaying Stars of David. It's a strange city alright!!
I heard Rangers do have actual Jewish connections at board level (read it somewhere recently)- dunno how true it is, but it would explain something. I couldn't really care less about religion, but as far as I'm concerned Israel should not exist and should be boycotted by any right-thinking human-being. Highly ironic that the terrible crimes of World War 2 should lead to the hunted becoming the hunters, or in this case the murdered becoming the murderers.

[TheRealRovers]

Originally posted by Éanna
I couldn't really care less about religion, but as far as I'm concerned Israel should not exist and should be boycotted by any right-thinking human-being. Highly ironic that the terrible crimes of World War 2 should lead to the hunted becoming the hunters, or in this case the murdered becoming the murderers.
I agree with you 100%

[liam88]

Does anyone know if the Palestinian flag is still above the Now Entering Free Derry sign where the tri-colour used to be?
Do you think that was a good move or slightly extreme>?

[TheRealRovers]

Originally posted by liam88
Does anyone know if the Palestinian flag is still above the Now Entering Free Derry sign where the tri-colour used to be?
Maybe the Brandywell boys can answer that it's been 6 months since I’ve been there

[brendy_éire]

Originally posted by liam88
Does anyone know if the Palestinian flag is still above the Now Entering Free Derry sign where the tri-colour used to be?
Do you think that was a good move or slightly extreme>?

Nah, that's gone a while, last time I checked there was a tri-colour there. Good move though, nothing wrong with it at all. Shows solidarity with the Palestinians

[liam88]

Originally posted by Conor74
Another famous one is the 'hissing gas' noise directed at Ajax and Spurs fans.


Spurs have Jewish connections? To be honest It hink the 'hissing gas' is sick, bit like 'Take my breath Away' against Liverpool-ruins the sport-a total disgrace.

[John83]

Originally posted by liam88
Spurs have Jewish connections?
Quite significant ones.


To be honest It hink the 'hissing gas' is sick, bit like 'Take my breath Away' against Liverpool-ruins the sport-a total disgrace.
The hissing is a disgrace alright - far worse than any booing at Lansdown, and there are enough of us who hate that.

I haven't heard that Liverpool one. Sorry if I'm just being dense, but what's it refer to?

[tiktok]

i hadn't heard of it wither, but i guess it refers to the Hillsborough disaster.

[liam88]

Totally barbaric. Yeah "Take my breath away" is in reference to those poor people who got crushed against the fence at Hillsborough, I hadn't heard of it till not long ago, flogging sicko's. What does the russian Submarine-man City refer to?

[brendy_éire]

Originally posted by liam88
What does the russian Submarine-man City refer to?

The Kirsk submarine which sank a few years back. Dunno what that has to do with Man City especially though.

[Duncan Gardner]

Conor74. All states are "artificial". What is now Israel and Palestine was, in the late nineteenth century and while part of the Ottoman Empire, generally agreed to have lacked a distinct single political identity. It also had significant Jewish and Christian populations, though Muslims were clearly the most numerous of the three groups.

The pressure from Jewish lobbies abroad was clearly a major factor in the Balfour Declaration and the formation of the state of Israel in 1948 (though its borders then were determined by the course of the war in that year). But the Palestine mandate was itself artificial. As was its contemporary, Iraq, which was made up of three distinct Ottoman provinces. Many argue this has combined both to its instability since and thus Saddam's ability to impose his regime for so long.

Eanna. Israel does exist. If it didn't, who knows where and what its population would do/ have done? Could an independent Palestine have survived with such a hostile population, at times in the last century a large majority? Who would have taken the refugees otherwise? To deny this existence is unrealistic. It's a bit like saying, after WW2, that Germany should be dismembered to prevent any repetition. But you can't simply ethnically cleanse 80 million people or stop them speaking their own language. Hard though Uncle Joe Stalin tried.

[TheRealRovers]

This post is a bit long so bear with me

This is what makes me angry abot Isreal It a bit out of date and dose not include the new intifada

UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992
1. Resolution 106: "... 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid"
2. Resolution 111: "...'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
3. Resolution 127: "...'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"
4. Resolution 162: "...'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions"
5. Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria"
6. Resolution 228: "...'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"
7. Resolution 237: "...'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"
8. Resolution 248: "... 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"
9. Resolution 250: "... 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"
10. Resolution 251: "... 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"
11. Resolution 252: "...'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"
12. Resolution 256: "... 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation""
13. Resolution 259: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"
14. Resolution 262: "...'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport"
15. Resolution 265: "... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"
16. Resolution 267: "...'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"
17. Resolution 270: "...'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"
18. Resolution 271: "...'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"
19. Resolution 279: "...'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"
20. Resolution 280: "....'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon"
21. Resolution 285: "...'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"
22. Resolution 298: "...'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem"
23. Resolution 313: "...'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"
24. Resolution 316: "...'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"
25. Resolution 317: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"
26. Resolution 332: "...'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon"
27. Resolution 337: "...'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty"
28. Resolution 347: "...'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon"
29. Resolution 425: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
30. Resolution 427: "...'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon'
31. Resolution 444: "...'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"
32. Resolution 446: "...'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
33. Resolution 450: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"
34. Resolution 452: "...'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"
35. Resolution 465: "...'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program"
36. Resolution 467: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon"
37. Resolution 468: "...'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"
38. Resolution 469: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians" 39. Resolution 471: "... 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
40. Resolution 476: "... 'reiterates' that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'"
41. Resolution 478: "...'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'"
42. Resolution 484: "...'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"
43. Resolution 487: "...'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility"
44. Resolution 497: "...'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"
45. Resolution 498: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"
46. Resolution 501: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"
47. Resolution 509: "...'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"
48. Resolution 515: "...'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"
49. Resolution 517: "...'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
50. Resolution 518: "...'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"
51. Resolution 520: "...'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut"
52. Resolution 573: "...'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters
53. Resolution 587: "...'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"
54. Resolution 592: "...'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops" 55. Resolution 605: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians
56. Resolution 607: "...'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
57. Resolution 608: "...'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"
58. Resolution 636: "...'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians
59. Resolution 641: "...'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians
60. Resolution 672: "...'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount
61. Resolution 673: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations
62. Resolution 681: "...'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians
63. Resolution 694: "...'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return
64. Resolution 726: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians
65. Resolution 799: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.


Israel also has 'WMD' as the Americans say. It has also killed thousands of Palestinians in refugee camps and is given Millions of dollars each year by the U.S. to fund this form of terrorism yet the U.S. invades Iraq because it breaks some thing like 14 resolutions BTW I'm am not defending Saddam and i think its good that he is gone

[sadloserkid]

Israel is arguably my least favourite thing. They've no more business playing in UEFA than Mongolia (which at least borders a European country). On a more serious level though the whole country seems sick to the core to me. I remember when Denmark played them in a friendly in Copenhagen a while back and about 50% of those who'd bought tickets stayed outside the ground to protest at the Israeli occupation of Palestine and the media (with no small number of influential jews at the helm) tried to slam those who stayed outside... Madness! :mad:

[Éanna]

Yeah, sounds like your standard American/Jewish attitude. If you don't criticise Palestinian martyr-bombers you're a terrorist, but if you criticise Israeli state terrorism on civilians, you're an anti-semite and a nazi, and a holocaust denier. Hitler would be fcukin proud of them :mad: :rolleyes:

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by Éanna
I heard Rangers do have actual Jewish connections at board level (read it somewhere recently)- dunno how true it is, but it would explain something. I couldn't really care less about religion, but as far as I'm concerned Israel should not exist and should be boycotted by any right-thinking human-being. Highly ironic that the terrible crimes of World War 2 should lead to the hunted becoming the hunters, or in this case the murdered becoming the murderers.

The mainly Jewish owned ENIC corporation have shares in both Rangers and Spurs. But don't Loyalist Rangers fans have connections with the BNP and the Ku Klux Klan. But the Zionist terror group the Stern Gang had links with Nazis during WWII. So being pro-Israel and pro-Nazi isn't that unusual.

[dahamsta]

Nobody say the key phrase "even-handed" or there'll be war!

Seriously, keep this thread polite and factual please.

adam

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by Vetinari
Nobody say the key phrase "even-handed" or there'll be war!

Seriously, keep this thread polite and factual please.

adam

Is an historical fact that the exteme Zionist Stern Gang were pro-Axis
See this link.

www.rense.com/general36/colb.htm

That is not to deny that the Jewish people suffered during WWII and most right thinking people would condemn the suicide bombers.

[Lionel Ritchie]

:eek:

[SÓC]

What gets lost in this arguement is the history of the Palestinians. Well more specifically the lack there of. There is no mention of people called Palestinians anywhere in history until recentish times.

So the Sinners link themselves link themselves to the Palestinians and then the Loyalists link themselves to the Jews. Excellent. Fair play to them. Except have they not gotten it the wrong way around. The Jews people have an acient historic claim to (some) of that land, proven in various doucments. Just like the Irish people have to the north of Ireland. It was once the most Irish part of Ireland. To call the Jews settlers is a bit inaccurate.

All that history doesnt excuse the complete disregard of any form of law by Israel and then Americian servants. Sharon can only be described as a Nazi.

Who was the progressive Israeli Prime Minister who was shot in c.1994?

When he died so did any hope for that part of the world.

[dahamsta]

I wasn't making accusations, it was simply a polite request to everyone posting in the thread.

[sylvo]

. In an an ideal world where uncle sam don't control a country like Isreal would be refered to as being on the axis of evil and not a nation like cuba. The new wall that's 25 feet high through east Jeruselem stopping the palastians from going about their daily live's stopping them from getting to work place's, hospital's, school's ect is just the latest in it's long line in Isreal trying to destroy the palastian people. If anybody seen a documentry about Rafa a town close to the border with Eygpt where the local population have to tunnel from house to house rather then walk outside their house's where the Isreali army have their fun by shooting at them. Isreal should be up in front of the un for war crime's but i'm sure uncle sam will make sure that don't happen

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by SÓCcfc
What gets lost in this arguement is the history of the Palestinians. Well more specifically the lack there of. There is no mention of people called Palestinians anywhere in history until recentish times.

So the Sinners link themselves link themselves to the Palestinians and then the Loyalists link themselves to the Jews. Excellent. Fair play to them. Except have they not gotten it the wrong way around. The Jews people have an acient historic claim to (some) of that land, proven in various doucments. Just like the Irish people have to the north of Ireland. It was once the most Irish part of Ireland. To call the Jews settlers is a bit inaccurate.



Haven't the Palesintinians or Arabs been in Palestine for as long as the Gaelic people have been in Scotland and the Anglo-Saxons have been in England. I'd say they've got just as much a claim as on Palesine as the Jews.

[Duncan Gardner]

S O'C: you're right that they didn't have a recognised 'ethnic' identity under the Ottoman Empire in the 19th century, but Palestinians = Philistines (from the Bible etc.).