Europa League 2009

[Dodge]

Just found that Pats have been confirmed as entering the Europa League qualifiers at the 2nd round stage this year. Presumably Derry and Sligo have either found out, or about to.

There's a chance we might even be seeded for the 2nd round, in what is now, a region free tournament.

First Round qualifiying games (if any irish clubs involved) will be played on the 2nd and 9th of July

Second round qualifying games (with pats and hopefully Sligo and Derry involved) will be played on the 16th and 23rd of July

[seand]

I suppose it's good news really, but from a coefficient gathering point of view I'd rather they started in the first qualifying round for a few easy points!

Congrats to Pats though- the first Irish side to be exempted from a round of European football on merit?

[Rovers1]

Doubt ourselves and Derry would get 2nd Round as well....

[Dodge]

I suppose it's good news really, but from a coefficient gathering point of view I'd rather they started in the first qualifying round for a few easy points!

Congrats to Pats though- the first Irish side to be exempted from a round of European football on merit?

The way Pats are playing this year there would've been no easy points in that first round, so best to go out to a higher team.

[thischarmingman]

I suppose it's good news really, but from a coefficient gathering point of view I'd rather they started in the first qualifying round for a few easy points!


Someone will no doubt confirm this, but don't we get the first round points anyway?

[Dodge]

Someone will no doubt confirm this, but don't we get the first round points anyway?

This wasn't the case in previous years, but I think the new rules have changed it.

I'm fairly certain we get the same prize money as if we won the first round (and to clubs, thats way, way more important than co-efficient points)

[fionnsci]

I heard that co-eff points may be calculated by round reached rather than from the games played.

[MariborKev]

Dodge,

Derry are in the first round and will be seeded.

However there is a mass confusion regarding whether it will be regionalised draws or not. The new "competition regulations" are not published until the end of the month.

I even rang up the UEFA press office last week and the fella basically said there was a fair chance that it could still be regionalised. I can't remember the exact quote but he did quote one of the regulations which was along the lines of "the competition committee have the right to divide qualifying teams in teams of geography for the basis of the qualifying rounds"

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=109691604775929470206.00046836c8fe77ca8567d&ll=43.948709,12.448711&spn=111.905343,226.40625&z=2


There is the map of possible opponents for Derry and Sligo, assuming no regionalistion. There are some nightmare draws, particularly as the first game is 10 days after the draw. Some of the trips you are looking at several €k for flight only!

[Rovers1]

hope UEFA do regionalise the draw, could potentially bankrupt a club if you have to play for chartered flights,which cost up to €2k each, as far as Kazakhstan/Moldova

[HarpoJoyce]

Just found that Pats have been confirmed as entering the Europa League qualifiers at the 2nd round stage this year. Presumably Derry and Sligo have either found out, or about to.

There's a chance we might even be seeded for the 2nd round, in what is now, a region free tournament.

First Round qualifiying games (if any irish clubs involved) will be played on the 2nd and 9th of July

Second round qualifying games (with pats and hopefully Sligo and Derry involved) will be played on the 16th and 23rd of July

UEFA published Access List suggest Derry City as runners-up to Bohs in the Cup Final would take the CW spot in the second qualifying round while St.Pats (RU) and Sligo Rovers (N3, 3rd place team) would take a spot each in the first qualifying round.
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/news/kind=2097152/newsid=788326.html

December 2008
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/news/kind=2097152/newsid=788365.html

"• The winners of those 25 ties are joined in the second qualifying round by the domestic cup winners from the associations ranked 28 to 51 in the UEFA coefficient, the runners-up from the associations ranked 19 to 34, the third-placed sides from the associations ranked 16 to 21, the fourth-placed sides from the associations ranked 10 to 15 and the fifth-placed sides from the associations ranked 7 to 9. These ties are also played over two legs, home and away...."

While Rep. of Irl. are ranked 35# there may have been some fluctuation with the clubs/assoc. above St.Pats allowing them gain at least one place and the rather big prize of a further round.
( is it possible to return to your source and request how St. Pats are in 2q round. It reduces speculation.)

It's my understanding that no points are awarded for matches which are not played. (However, see below for stuff on more points the longer a club remains in the competition.)

Regarding the current co-efficient quantities and measurement in a Nov. 2008 edition of the UEFA Direct (Page 6) there's a small piece on the new changes.
http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/publications/uefa/uefamedia/76/64/83/766483_download.pdf

It mentions increased points for the tougher Champions League. Points for individual clubs at the qualifying stage aswel as the Association (previously only the Assoc. benefitted.). And the overall Nat. Assoc. contribution was reduced from 33% to 20%. So regular clubs will rely more on their own efforts while the irregular qualifiers will start with less.

After Edit:
Speculation Warning: St.Pats may be the principal LoI applicant because UEFA dont accept the runners-up of the domestic cup as CW anymore.
(I'll have a look for my own benefit.)

[MariborKev]

hope UEFA do regionalise the draw, could potentially bankrupt a club if you have to play for chartered flights,which cost up to €2k each, as far as Kazakhstan/Moldova

You can get me a chartered plane to either of those places for €2k a head? Can I have the name of your contact?

[Dodge]

UEFA published Access List suggest Derry City as runners-up to Bohs in the Cup Final would take the CW spot in the second qualifying round while St.Pats (RU) and Sligo Rovers (N3, 3rd place team) would take a spot each in the first qualifying round.

That would've been the case had Derry won the Cup, but Cup Runners Up (LC) are treated as the lowest qualifier, and as Derry ae already N3, they take that spot instead (being higher than LC)

For a team lke Falkirk, if they win the Scottish cup they'd enter in the 4th QR, but if they lose the Scottish Cup final they'd enter in the 2nd QR (same as Pats)

As I've said its been confirmed to Pats that we're entering in QR2

[Celdrog]

could potentially bankrupt a club if you have to play for chartered flights,which cost up to €2k each, as far as Kazakhstan/MoldovaOr the Ukraine :o :D

Last year if you skipped a round you got the co-efficient points for that round anyway

[holidaysong]

Last year if you skipped a round you got the co-efficient points for that round anyway

No you didn't. The new points system is just beginning for 2009/10 European competition.

[placid casual]

If bohs get thrown out of the league before the euorpean football kicks off again, will Derry be in the Champions League ?

[dublinred]

hope UEFA do regionalise the draw, could potentially bankrupt a club if you have to play for chartered flights,which cost up to €2k each, as far as Kazakhstan/Moldova

Agree , who the feck let Kazashstan in Europe? Looking at the map we could be playing a Europa cup tie beside Mongolia , when I went to school Europe ended in Istanbul , crazy if not regionalised , i'm slighty biased as due to work commitments can't travel too far in early July so would love a Norn Ire or Welsh team first.

[redobit]

Agree , who the feck let Kazashstan in Europe? Looking at the map we could be playing a Europa cup tie beside Mongolia , when I went to school Europe ended in Istanbul , crazy if not regionalised , i'm slighty biased as due to work commitments can't travel too far in early July so would love a Norn Ire or Welsh team first.

A trip to the north or wales would be great from a financial viewpoint, I suppose my other way of thinking is that a european trip should be to a country with a foregin language, make it more authentic and different.

[CuanaD]

A trip to the north or wales would be great from a financial viewpoint, I suppose my other way of thinking is that a european trip should be to a country with a foregin language, make it more authentic and different.
No problem - sure they all speak Ulster-Scots in NI anyway :D

[Flexy]

That would've been the case had Derry won the Cup, but Cup Runners Up (LC) are treated as the lowest qualifier, and as Derry ae already N3, they take that spot instead (being higher than LC)

For a team lke Falkirk, if they win the Scottish cup they'd enter in the 4th QR, but if they lose the Scottish Cup final they'd enter in the 2nd QR (same as Pats)

As I've said its been confirmed to Pats that we're entering in QR2
Are prev yrs results not used now for eg Cliftonville or Crusaders would miss a round before Derry as they won the cup in the North

[citybone]

Just found that Pats have been confirmed as entering the Europa League qualifiers at the 2nd round stage this year. Presumably Derry and Sligo have either found out, or about to.

There's a chance we might even be seeded for the 2nd round, in what is now, a region free tournament.

First Round qualifying games (if any irish clubs involved) will be played on the 2nd and 9th of July

Second round qualifying games (with pats and hopefully Sligo and Derry involved) will be played on the 16th and 23rd of July

Derry and Sligo will be in the First round alright and they will be seeded



Doubt ourselves and Derry would get 2nd Round as well....
Sligo and Derry should be able of beating any unseeded first round qualifying of Europa league club faroe islands,San Marino,welsh, Ni, Wales etc


I suppose it's good news really, but from a coefficient gathering point of view I'd rather they started in the first qualifying round for a few easy points!

Congrats to Pats though- the first Irish side to be exempted from a round of European football on merit?

Yes we would pick up more points in the 1st round but next year we will prob have 2 clubs in the second qualifying round and 1 in the first qualifying round. but that means we will have bigger games in Europe and more challenging games but with higher rewards.


hope UEFA do regionalise the draw, could potentially bankrupt a club if you have to play for chartered flights,which cost up to €2k each, as far as Kazakhstan/Moldova

you mean if they don't regionilise the draw.

if they do regionilise the draw yee are more likely to play Welsh,Ni,Luvemberg, or Scandinavian opposition ie less traveling.

If they don't regionalise it then yee could be traveling to the Asian countries,former Yugoslavian countries, Baltic Countries, Cyprus (not a bad one), Malta etc.

[Dodge]

Are prev yrs results not used now for eg Cliftonville or Crusaders would miss a round before Derry as they won the cup in the North

Not sure what you're asking?

There are two different strands to qualification.

First is Access. This means that regardless of what clubs are involved a countries qualifiers are automatically assigned to certain rounds. In some cases that might mean that one team enters at the first round, and one team enters at the second round. Which qualifiers from each country go into which round is based on performance in the qualifying season. For the Europa league the order is Cup winners, 2nd in league, 3rd in league. If the cup winners are the league champions the order is 2nd in league, 3rd in league, cup runners up. If the cup runners up finish in 2nd or 3rd in the league the order is 2nd in league, 3rd in league, 4th in league (In our case Pats, Derry, Sligo)

When each team is assigned to each round, only then individual rankings come into it. In this case Derry will be a higher seed than Sligo, because of their results in the UEFA Cup a few years ago. Pats and Derry should have the same ranking. All LOI clubs have a higher seeding than clubs in the North. When we played Odense in 2007 they were the top seeds in our round despite being the last Danish qualifier. They were also the top seed in the next round due to their high individual rankings

[Schumi]

I suppose it's good news really, but from a coefficient gathering point of view I'd rather they started in the first qualifying round for a few easy points!

What's the point of gaining coefficient points if not to get a bye through the first qualifying round?

[holidaysong]

According to this (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seedel2009.html) page, Derry and Sligo will be seeding in QR1 and St. Pat's will be seeded in QR2. Also, if they get through the first round Derry will be seeded in QR2 but Sligo might not.

And according to this (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seedcl2009.html) page Bohemians won't be seeded in QR2 of the CL (although it's effectively the same round as last year's QR1).

[SkStu]

And according to this (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seedcl2009.html) page Bohemians won't be seeded in QR2 of the CL (although it's effectively the same round as last year's QR1).

check this (http://www.thebohs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10321) out!

we might possibly be seeded depending on results of other european leagues.

[Dodge]

check this (http://www.thebohs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10321) out!

we might possibly be seeded depending on results of other european leagues.

Where did he get those figures from? Look at Bert's page (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seedcl2009.html). According to him the very best Bohs could do is be the top unseeded team

[SkStu]

Where did he get those figures from? Look at Bert's page (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seedcl2009.html). According to him the very best Bohs could do is be the top unseeded team

we will likely be unseeded for sure Dodge but from some of the lads on the bohs mb there is still a chance.


Just read because the European Champion will all more than likely qualify through the group stages (Arsenal the only not possible,would be a disaster though), the title holders place goes to Belgium team in Q3 which means Switzerland is bumped up to Q3 from our Q2. They will be replaced with 2 from Q1.So the 16 bolded teams above are defo seeded.That leaves one spot.
All this means it IS between ourselves and indeed Georgia but also Slovenia and Macedonia looking at the seeds above.Obviously WIT are the low seed in Georgia and we are cheering them on.

Slovenia looks like a 2 horse race - I've seen Maribors name quite a bit in previous draws so I'd say they could be 2.032 from the co-effs above so if they win we are ****ed.
NK Maribor 28 14 11 3 53 34 +19 53
NK Celje 28 13 8 7 40 27 +13 47

Macedonia 3 , probably over
FK Makedonija Gjorce Petrov 22 14 6 2 40 11 +29 48
FK Renova Dzepciste 22 11 8 3 29 20 +9 41
FK Milano Kumanovo 22 12 4 6 35 24 +11 40

Scian any chance of posting the link for the team coefficients so we know who we are shouting for in Slovenia and Macedonia.

We could still have a chance! Although in a way I quite fancy being unseeded, better chance of not ending up in the arsehole of no where for the jolly.

I've way too much time on my hands.



Here are the coefficients of what's left from Kassies and he is usually bang on.Forget about Macedonia because the only team above us in the co-eff (Skopje ) can't win the league there.
We know about WIT and Dinamo.
Slovenia is where we will lose the seeding - their top co-eff Domzale are good as gone.Gorica too, that means Maribor are ahead of us and are top of their league.
So for us to be seeded we need WIT to win the Georgian League,Celje(6 points behind) to overtake Maribor in Slovenia and Arsenal to make sure they come in the top 4 in case they win the CL. A long shot.

Added Pats,Shels and Derrys co-eff - if we had got into Europe proper under Farrelly and Connor we probably wouldn't be pinning are hopes on some Slovenian team to get a decent run in Europe.

194 NK Domzale Slo 3.816
197 Dinamo Tbilisi Geo 3.332
200 St. Patrick's Athletic Irl 2.899
Derry City Irl 2.899
Shelbourne Irl 2.899
204 Nova Gorica Slo 2.816
NK Maribor Slo 2.816
207 Rabotnicki Skopje Mac 2.032
Ireland 1.899 Bohs
Slovenia 1.816 any other
Georgia 1.332 any other
Macedonia 1.032 any other

[Dodge]

For the record, we got a point for drawing with Hertha, Derry got a point for Drawing with PSG and Shels got a point for drawing with Nantes (all in UEFA Cup 1st round). You didn't get any individual points for qualifiers in UEFA Cup or Champions League

Thanks for info Sk Stu

[SPXcyan]

Shels played Lille not nantes :)

[Umberside]

Shels played Lille not nantes :)

It was us who played Nantes.

[HarpoJoyce]

That would've been the case had Derry won the Cup, but Cup Runners Up (LC) are treated as the lowest qualifier, and as Derry ae already N3, they take that spot instead (being higher than LC)

For a team lke Falkirk, if they win the Scottish cup they'd enter in the 4th QR, but if they lose the Scottish Cup final they'd enter in the 2nd QR (same as Pats)

As I've said its been confirmed to Pats that we're entering in QR2


Where did he get those figures from? Look at Bert's page (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seedcl2009.html). According to him the very best Bohs could do is be the top unseeded team

Thanks for returning to your owriginal scource and posting here. For sure, I think you made with a joke about Derry City (LC) being less then the Cup Winners.
It's also funny when someone quotes Bert Kassies but asks another person where they got their info. from.
The Bert/Our Bert/Bertie Boy/The Bertmeister is never questioned by these people. I prefer source information.

While the there are only three ties in the CL qual. 1st rd it maybe enough to push Bohemian under the seeding line. However regarding any of the unseeded teams who beat a seed, those teams inherit the higher co-efficient and the continuance of their European journey is guaranteed as the losers of 3rd qualifying round go into the Europa League.
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/format/newsid=788373.html
"• The losing team from each of the UEFA Champions League third qualifying round ties will go into the UEFA Europa League play-offs.

• The losing team from each of the UEFA Champions League play-off ties will go into the UEFA Europa League group stage."

League of Ireland Race for Group Stage of the (Uefa) Europa League.

[irishultra]

hope UEFA do regionalise the draw, could potentially bankrupt a club if you have to play for chartered flights,which cost up to €2k each, as far as Kazakhstan/Moldova

How do/did they split up the zones?

I presume its Ireland/France/Wales/England/Scotland/Northern Ireland or is it more general than that?

[Rovers1]

How do/did they split up the zones?

I presume its Ireland/France/Wales/England/Scotland/Northern Ireland or is it more general than that?

in the firs qualifying round afaik its Ireland,NI, Wales, Faroes, Iceland, and whoever is the west side of Europe, kind of thing.

[sligoman]

in the firs qualifying round afaik its Ireland,NI, Wales, Faroes, Iceland, and whoever is the west side of Europe, kind of thing.We'd be in the northern region of Europe: Northern Ireland, Wales, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania

[Rovers1]

We'd be in the northern region of Europe: Northern Ireland, Wales, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania

are you sure they would include the last two??

[LeixlipRed]

Yes. Note Shels and many other clubs been drawn against Lithuanian and Latvian clubs in the last few years.

[irishultra]

Oh so by the time England and France get involved the regional thing goes out the window yeah?

I've always wondered how Kazackstan and the likes are even are members of Uefa? Lol.

I love Europe time though with the LOI, last year I remember screaming at the radio when Drogheda scored against Levadia Tallin and Corks attempts to bridge back being 2 goals down to Haka. :D

[OneRedArmy]

What's the point of gaining coefficient points if not to get a bye through the first qualifying round?

Country ranking and ranking within country (champion, CW, 2nd, 3rd) determines what round you enter at, club coefficient determines your ranking within that round (ie seeded or unseeded).

Based on recent experience, regionalization is more important than being seeded. However good an EL team is, they are up against it going to places like Kazakhstan and Armenia in July.

Whilst Derry were having an annus horriblis in 2006 having just replaced the rat with the drunk, even on top form they would've struggled as it was 47 degrees at kick off.

Fingers crossed for regionalization. But Bert is rarely wrong and he's listing an open draw.

[OneRedArmy]

UEFA have just released new competition rules for CL & EL. Sorry, can't paste link on the iPhone. Pats in QR2, Derry and Sligwegians in QR1 as expected. However, we were only one country ranking spot off Derry getting directly into QR2. Damn those Moldovans....


Can't find anything on regionalisation of EL, yet.

[Dodge]

UEFA have just released new competition rules for CL & EL. Sorry, can't paste link on the iPhone. Pats in QR2, Derry and Sligwegians in QR1 as expected. However, we were only one country ranking spot off Derry getting directly into QR2. Damn those Moldovans....



If you think you hate them, try being a Pats fan :(

Here's the link to the the PDF file
http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/regulations/uefa/others/82/68/60/826860_download.pdf

[MariborKev]

"Article 9:Group formations
9.01 For the qualifying phase and the play-off draws, the UEFA administration
may form groups, in accordance with the principles set by the Club
Competitions Committee."

Sounds like there could be regionalisations.......

[Dodge]

Lets hope so...

[crc]

Whilst Derry were having an annus horriblis in 2006 having just replaced the rat with the drunk, even on top form they would've struggled as it was 47 degrees at kick off.
It was actually 2007; 2006 was our glory year in Europe (as well as winning both cups, and being runners-up in the league on goal difference to a club that was relegated a couple of months later :mad: )

[OneRedArmy]

It was actually 2007; 2006 was our glory year in Europe (as well as winning both cups, and being runners-up in the league on goal difference to a club that was relegated a couple of months later :mad: )
Thanks. I've obviously tried to eradicate the whole season from my mind!

Here's hoping regionalisation continues.

To answer a question above, the regions are relatively fluid as there needs to be an equal number of seeded and unseeded teams in each region. Assuming regionalisation, there's a strong possibility Derry and Sligo can draw someone from
Norn Ireland
Wales
Estonia
Faroes
Luxembourg
and possibly San Marino / Andorra if Rosenborg get a Fair Play place.

Working out who Pats could face will be very unclear until after QR1.

[Mr A]

Here's hoping regionalisation continues.



Jeez, I thought most Derry fans felt partition was a bad idea. ;)

[sligoman]

Article 4
Duties of the clubs
4.01 On entering the competition, participating clubs agree:

d) to field their strongest team throughout the competition;
---------------
Bit daft that one? Who decides what is their strongest team like, the manager obviously, not uefa:confused:

[OneRedArmy]

It's hard to enforce alright. Some of the English clubs have certainly breached the spirit of it over the last few years in the UEFA Cup.

[Dodge]

Its just a cover in case of any suspected betting scandals. UEFA can point to this rule if its needed.

Its obviously not going to be too strictly enforced

[dcfcsteve]

Jeez, I thought most Derry fans felt partition was a bad idea. ;)

We'd always be a separate region in the North-west - even under reunification.

Just ask the Corkies.... :D

[ps bohs]

If bohs get thrown out of the league before the euorpean football kicks off again, will Derry be in the Champions League ?

maybe you should have a look at the League cup thread this seems a bit too complicated for you ,you might get a pain in your head

[holidaysong]

I see team co-efficients are to be determined by how far you get in the competition, plus the added 20% from the association co-efficient (as we knew).

However, association co-efficients will still be determined by results in individual matches which is interesting. It'll make the task of calculating co-efficients more complicated anyway.