Catholic Primary Schools

[Magicme]

I send my sons to catholic schools but only because they are the best schools in my area. My eldest son made communion and confirmation just because he didnt want to stand out from the crowd. Coming up to his confirmation I offered him choices. he could make his confirmation with his mates or we could have a "coming of age" type day. Most religions have them, Bar Mitzvah (sp?) in Judism, and Hinduism has one too (cant remember what it is called). I told him we would buy him some flash new clothes, take the family including aunts & uncles & grandparents out for dinner and tell people he had confirmation so he would get the all important money but he chose to make his confirmation to conform.

He has no interest in religion but has to do it for his junior cert as part of his schools programme. It wont do him any harm so I dont mind, he is intelligent enough to work out that it is a lot of spin and bluster, but I do think that his time would be better spent doing some other subject.

My youngest will be in 6th class next year and will probably follow his brother's path and make his confirmation.

Its all just for show though so I cant see what the church are achieving really.

On a slightly off topic aspect of this debate, I was in hospital a few years ago and the nurse was taking my details. She asked me my religion, I said "none". She asked again, i repeated my answer. She asked a third time and I again asserted that I did not have one, a **** didnt crow but she wrote down Catholic as she decided that I had to have one and why not the most popular one.

Lucky for her I was too ill to cause a fuss but I think it was disgraceful.

[John83]

Why shouldn't parents be allowed a choice? There's an assumption in this argument that parents shouldn't be allowed decide what's best for their children, that the government knows better.
I think you're presenting a false dychotomy.

People here are arguing for a system where religious education is not an inherent part of the school system, except perhaps in the form of a general overview. They don't care that there are Catholic schools. They're not saying, "Let's force people to not send their kids to a Catholic school." (Some of them are implying it, but I doubt those people would agree with the statement put that way.) They care that many people don't have access to non-denominational ones, and that the denominational status quo is supported by the state.


On a slightly off topic aspect of this debate, I was in hospital a few years ago and the nurse was taking my details. She asked me my religion, I said "none". She asked again, i repeated my answer. She asked a third time and I again asserted that I did not have one, a **** didnt crow but she wrote down Catholic as she decided that I had to have one and why not the most popular one.

Lucky for her I was too ill to cause a fuss but I think it was disgraceful.
Pathetic. I wonder if she'd have written down "atheism" or "agnosticism" if you'd answered like that.

[Magicme]

Im not atheist or agnostic. I do have spiritual beliefs. I just dont believe in religion. No one has the right to tell me how to worship or what I can or cant do on certain days of the week.

And no nurse had a right to elect a religion for me.

Religious bigotry ruined my life so I refuse to be labelled by it anymore.

[John83]

Im not atheist or agnostic. I do have spiritual beliefs. I just dont believe in religion. No one has the right to tell me how to worship or what I can or cant do on certain days of the week.
My apologies: I didn't mean to imply you were either, though most people answering "none" to religion would be. Most people have a label for their thinking on the subject, even if that label is broad, like spiritualism or pagan. Still, I agree that "none" should be accepted as no worse an answer than any label.

[Magicme]

No problems.

[Bald Student]

I think you're presenting a false dychotomy.

People here are arguing for a system where religious education is not an inherent part of the school system, except perhaps in the form of a general overview. They don't care that there are Catholic schools. They're not saying, "Let's force people to not send their kids to a Catholic school." (Some of them are implying it, but I doubt those people would agree with the statement put that way.) They care that many people don't have access to non-denominational ones, and that the denominational status quo is supported by the state. Some are arguing as you are but others are arguing that there should be no religious schooling at all. That's a real dichotomy, I've picked my side and I think you've picked the same one as me.

[Macy]

Why shouldn't parents be allowed a choice? There's an assumption in this argument that parents shouldn't be allowed decide what's best for their children, that the government knows better.
They'd have the choice - either fund it themselves or outside of school hours. Surely if parents felt that strongly and were that committed to the religion, they wouldn't have an issue with it being in afternoons after school or at the weekends?

The other option, which on the face of it seems "fairest" just leads to segregation. That hasn't exactly worked well in places like the north for the social fabric, has it?

[micls]

Some are arguing as you are but others are arguing that there should be no religious schooling at all. .

Not at all. Not wanting religion as part of a state funded curriculum in primary schools is not the same as saying there should be no religious schooling.

Imo ideally parishes would prepare children for sacraments, outside of school time. The amount of education time that is taken up in 2nd class by the communion work is incredible.

That said I also would have a problem with parents choosing Catholic schools if every parent had another option, they don't though.

Personally I don't see the reasoning behind teaching religion in schools, other than parents not being bothered to teach it at home as happens in many cases. If the sacraments were separate from school and parents had to make the effort to help prepare the child, then a lot less children would receive them.A reason why the church would be vehemently against this separation.

[pete]

If I was say a Muslim applying for a primary school teaching position would it not be fairly difficult for me to get a job? I presume I could not teach in Catholic or Church of Ireland primary schools? I would surely not be allowed to teach a class in their communion year?

Given the Dept of Education would be paying my wages seems a bixarre system that I would be refused a job in the majority of schools.

:confused:

[Macy]

If I was say a Muslim applying for a primary school teaching position would it not be fairly difficult for me to get a job?
Could be worse, you could be a divorcee or an unmarried mother. Then you'd be really fecked.

[pete]

Could be worse, you could be a divorcee or an unmarried mother. Then you'd be really fecked.

If I was to become an unmarried mother the Church would have even bigger problems with me :D

[John83]

If I was to become an unmarried mother the Church would have even bigger problems with me :D
Just claim it was a virgin birth. What are they going to do, claim that's impossible?

[Mr A]

Just claim it was a virgin birth. What are they going to do, claim that's impossible?

No, but they might nail your offspring to a tree.

[pete]

Irish Times (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0424/1224245303418.html)



JMB general secretary Ferdia Kelly said the removal of grants and the changes in teacher allocations in minority faith schools “will either mean a reduction in the quality of education offered, or an increase in fees paid by parents”.

Because of their dispersed populations, minority faith schools had historically been treated differently to Catholic schools. After free education was introduced, they were allowed to benefit from grants given in the free education sector while still charging fees.

However, the budget changes effectively removed these schools from the free education scheme, Mr Kelly said. He cited the removal of grants, including those for caretakers and secretaries, that are payable to schools in the free education scheme and the introduction of a higher pupil-teacher ratio for the purposes of allocating teachers.


I would guess this is why the minority religious run schools have not objected to the Cathloic run primary schools.

[Bald Student]

They'd have the choice - either fund it themselves or outside of school hours.Funding a school yourself is a choice available only to the wealthy. I'm too much of a socialist to believe in that type of politics.

[thischarmingman]

And if they do, I think they would be more than capable in exploring different religions because now more than ever there is exposure of other religion instead of Roman Catholic dominance particulary with access to internet etc.

I think that's a good point. It's easier and easier to find out about other systems of belief thanks to the internet, the influence of other cultures on our own, and through the media. If you are really interested, it's not that hard to find information. Rather than indoctrinating children in one religion schools should have religious education that looks at all the major faith, their histories, their teachings, and their influence on culture throughout history. If you decide you are a committed Catholic there's more than enough ways to find out about Catholicism and practise it without it taking up everyone elses valuable lesson time.

[Shilts]

Saw the film "Song for a Raggy Boy" with Aidan Quinn on RTE last night.
That's a good advert for mixing religion with state education. Not!!!
Will we ever learn??? :mad:

[Shilts]

Saw the film "Song for a Raggy Boy" with Aidan Quinn on RTE last night.
That's a good advert for mixing religion with state education. Not!!!
Will we ever learn??? :mad:

:mad:
Will we ever learn???
Shocking revelations coming out at the moment!!!

[Thunderblaster]

Saw the film "Song for a Raggy Boy" with Aidan Quinn


Good film but the content was horrible. It was certainly an Irish version of a gulag, juvenile jail or a concentration camp. The punishments meted out in the film described could be best described as barbaric. The Christian Brothers in the film lacked total humanity and were very closed minded people. The lay-teacher at least showed compassion. After watching the film, I did not have a good night's sleep after watching some of the most evil behaviour perpetrated on kids. The behaviour on the film is a total affront to the teachings of Jesus Christ, who called us to love one another as we would liked to be loved. The line, suffer little children who come into thee is over appropriate as these children suffered and were unloved, it meant a huge amount to even get a christmas present. If Jesus Christ saw this film, he would weep for the children that were abused at the hands of people proclaiming the message of God. This was a major crime against humanity, we have to accept that as a nation and make sure evil deeds like in the film never happen again. Jesus wept.