Media claims FAI brand Palestinian flag as "racist" [Archive]

gufc2000

08/04/2009, 3:05 PM

Dundalk FC have been reported and will face a fine over the display of a Palestinian flag by their supporters during last weekend's 3-1 win at Sligo Rovers, after the FAI branded the flag as "racist". However, last night, the Louth club challenged the FAI, stating they are treating the matter "very seriously" and "considering making an official complaint".

Offending banner
"Our fans were very well behaved and did themselves proud [in Sligo]," club secretary Kevin Holland wrote in the Dundalk FC Magazine for the visit of Shamrock Rovers to Oriel Park on Tuesday night. "But during the game the FAI match delegate summoned our Chairman and informed him that he would be reporting Dundalk FC for the display of a racist banner. What was the offending banner? The Dundalk flag that we have seen in Oriel Park for many, many years that features a Palestinian flag. Now, I do not profess to be an expert in these matters - but how can a flag that features an internationally recognised flag be deemed as racist?

Official complaint
"The Palestinian flag is flying outside the United Nations building in New York," he added. "Also, members of the Gardai were standing in front of the flag during the game and didn't have any problem with it. This accusation may be ridiculous but I am treating it very seriously. The Board of Dundalk will be considering making an official complaint against the FAI over this incident. Darren Mansaram was the victim of racist abuse against Drogheda and there was also some racist abuse chanted his way by Sligo fans near where I was sitting in Sligo. To equate a flag to these incidents is disgusting and downright offensive."

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/1625

Any Lilywhites care to shed light on this?

sligoman

08/04/2009, 3:10 PM

"Our fans were very well behaved and did themselves proud [in Sligo]," club secretary Kevin Holland wrote in the Dundalk FC MagazineJumping on the pitch, drinking in the stands, shouting abuse at stewards. And that's all I noticed.

I know Dundalk aren't the only crowd who do this, but yer man shouldn't be saying that they did themselves proud. As for the flag, it's not racist. It's stupid being put up in any LOI ground but how the feck is it racist?

Dodge

08/04/2009, 3:11 PM

its not rascist but it has no place in Irish football grounds. Either do israeli flags before anyone starts

DaveyCakes

08/04/2009, 3:14 PM

its not rascist but it has no place in Irish football grounds. Either do israeli flags before anyone starts

I totally agree

dannydundalk

08/04/2009, 3:14 PM

we have had this in oriel this years
it aint racist fr having a palestian flag :eek:

Mr A

08/04/2009, 3:19 PM

Noticed the Palestinian and Basque flags at the Dundalk-Bohs game- WTF is that about?

It certainly isn't racist by the way, but I've no idea why people feel the need to bring these to matches.

Except perhaps because the so called Republican movement(s) tend to align themselves with these groups..........

celticV3

08/04/2009, 3:22 PM

and there was also some racist abuse chanted his way by Sligo fans near where I was sitting in Sligo.

Can this be expanded on as there was no racist abuse. There was abuse but that was aimed at more than mansaram and when it was at mansaram it was because he was kicking at our players and generally is hated.

pete

08/04/2009, 3:23 PM

Is there a picture of the flag? Why do Dundalk have a Palestinian flag?

Mad Moose

08/04/2009, 3:30 PM

More FAI blundering at that then if thats what an FAI Official actually stated. Can't see this gaining any wind whatsoever but stupid stuff from an FAI official. There is little point in having either a Basque or Palestinian flag at a LoI game or flying in an estate as I remember in Omagh at one stage but they may have had more an affiliation. I don't know.

Rovers Maniac

08/04/2009, 3:33 PM

Dundalk are easily becoming the most disliked club in the league, i have gone to games and Darren Mansarram has been given abuse and gave it right back but to turn around and say it is racist is plain ignorant of that shower of knucle draggers up there in Louth. Chanting? That better not be an official compalint or else i hope Sligo Rovers FC follow up if it is. They would want to catch on to themselves and stop dragging other clubs good names through the mud. Funny there has not been a mention of it till now, i wonder why that is !!!

Edit: I don't care about the flag but i don't see the point in them trying to justify it by talking rubbish about other clubs, esp when there has been nothing else said about any incident that night by either set of fans.

Jofspring

08/04/2009, 3:34 PM

Dundalk had it at matches last year too. Why the big deal about it now all of a sudden??

The Lilywhites

08/04/2009, 3:36 PM

Dundalk had it at matches last year too. Why the big deal about it now all of a sudden??

Maybe because the FAI don't know the First Division exists.

citybone

08/04/2009, 3:59 PM

Jumping on the pitch, drinking in the stands, shouting abuse at stewards. And that's all I noticed.

I know Dundalk aren't the only crowd who do this, but yer man shouldn't be saying that they did themselves proud. As for the flag, it's not racist. It's stupid being put up in any LOI ground but how the feck is it racist?

its the same colours as cork city, we wave basque flags, Italian flags and Bulgarian flags and i don't see the problem.

micls

08/04/2009, 4:00 PM

1) They clearly dont understand the meaning of the word racist
2) Having this flag at an LOI game seems ridiculous to me
3) But who gives a damn.

Gaillimh Al

08/04/2009, 4:22 PM

update:

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/1625/

Dodge

08/04/2009, 4:37 PM

So extratime got the wrong end of the stick, again...

shoddy journalism, again...

The Stars

08/04/2009, 4:41 PM

Can this be expanded on as there was no racist abuse. There was abuse but that was aimed at more than mansaram and when it was at mansaram it was because he was kicking at our players and generally is hated.

There clearly was racist abuse celticV3, you were standing beside the people who did it so don't deny it just because you know these people

Schumi

08/04/2009, 4:50 PM

its not rascist but it has no place in Irish football grounds. Either do israeli flags before anyone starts
Are Cameroon flags OK?

sligoman

08/04/2009, 4:52 PM

Are Cameroon flags OK?If you have a Cameroon player then it makes sense. Otherwise it wouldn't.

John83

08/04/2009, 4:55 PM

Hang on here. "FAI brands" the flag as racist is not the same as "FAI match delegate brands" the flag as racist. The latter is what happened here. Let's see whether the FAI back him or not before leaping to conclusions.

Mad Moose

08/04/2009, 4:55 PM

Are Cameroon flags OK?

Though to err on the side of caution run it by your nearest FAI official :D

Schumi

08/04/2009, 4:58 PM

If you have a Cameroon player then it makes sense. Otherwise it wouldn't.

Derry had a Peru flag the last time I was there, I hope that's acceptable.

Buile Shuibhne

08/04/2009, 5:02 PM

So extratime got the wrong end of the stick, again...

shoddy journalism, again...

In fairness the original story was based on what the official FAI Match Delegate said at the game last night.

The FAI have obviously since overruled him.

I've seen these match delegates in action before - some of them are little despots threatening all sorts of sanctions for percieved things they don't like. You hear after games thast your club is going to get fined for 'this or that' infraction - but that's usually the end of it. The FAI don't take them any further.

The Match Delegates need to have their wings clipped.

sligoman

08/04/2009, 5:03 PM

Derry had a Peru flag the last time I was there, I hope that's acceptable.Perhaps a Peruvian national was at the match? Again if not, it wouldn't make sense.

SalvadorSanchez

08/04/2009, 5:04 PM

I'll have to dig out my Palestinian, Bosnian Serb, Transdnestrian, Abkazian, South Ossetian, Ngorno-Karabakh, Basque, Catalan, Galician flags and of course not forgetting the Banner of the Peoples Republic of Cork.
This is a stupid call by the FAI!!! the Irish government recognises the aspirations of the Palestinian people and we have formal diplomatic relations with them in the form of a permanent representative based in Dublin .... the address is even on the Dept of Foreign affairs website!!!!! Dundalk can't be sanctioned here and shouldn't be...
Whatever we think about expressions of support for political causes at Football matches, there is no way that the display of an internationally recognized flag that represents a people and their national aspirations should be deemed be racist by some FAI moron who probably works as a milkman for his day job...... (not that I'm being racist against milkmen... or milkwomen)

sligoman

08/04/2009, 5:08 PM

This is a stupid call by the FAI!!! the Irish government recognises the aspirations of the Palestinian people and we have formal diplomatic relations with them in the form of a permanent representative based in Dublin .... the address is even on the Dept of Foreign affairs website!!!!! Dundalk can't be sanctioned here and shouldn't be...Did you miss the rest of the thread? The FAI aren't doing anything, this is a nothing story.

Schumi

08/04/2009, 5:10 PM

Perhaps a Peruvian national was at the match? Again if not, it wouldn't make sense.

How about Finland flags at a Finn Harps game? :D

Martinho II

08/04/2009, 5:10 PM

Is there a picture of the flag? Why do Dundalk have a Palestinian flag?

whats the fascination with dundalk and palestinian flags?? noone has answered this question specifically..

sligoman

08/04/2009, 5:11 PM

Dramaqueen.Eh, what?

thischarmingman

08/04/2009, 5:41 PM

brianw82

08/04/2009, 5:47 PM

I heard some rioting Palestinians beat up a group of Dundalk fans who had to hide behind a flag outside Oriel Park to get away from them before a group of Rovers fans ran up the street shouting Israeli slogans and eating babies.

Just what I heard, that's all.

[typical defensive foot.ie response]You don't know what you're talking about, mate. They were eating live lambs, not babies. Get your facts straight before posting![/typical defensive foot.ie response]

sullanefc

08/04/2009, 7:14 PM

its the same colours as cork city, we wave basque flags, Italian flags and Bulgarian flags and i don't see the problem.

Palestinian flag is often waved at TX. But it is the same colours as the City colours so it shouldn't be a problem. Sure at Cork GAA matches the confederate (rebel) flag is flown. That could be perceived as racist as well, but in the context of a football match it shouldn't be.

Why Dundalk fans feel the need to wave it is another matter.

citybone

08/04/2009, 8:12 PM

1) They clearly dont understand the meaning of the word racist
2) Having this flag at an LOI game seems ridiculous to me
3) But who gives a damn.

its the same colours as our club? brings a bit more colour to the ground?

Drogman.

08/04/2009, 8:26 PM

Who cares?

holidaysong

08/04/2009, 8:34 PM

Why Dundalk fans feel the need to wave it is another matter.

Dundalk fans don't wave Palestinian flags at games. There is one large black and white flag with the Palestinian, Basque and Scottish (I think) flags on it. I don't know who owns it or what their point is so I can't speak for them.

However, I agree that it really doesn't have much to do with supporting Dundalk FC. If I bring a big black and white banner with an Israel, Spain and UK flag on it am I less of a Dundalk fan?

pete

08/04/2009, 8:43 PM

update:

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/1625/

Has no one read this? FAI say this was never reported. Seems media reporting rumour as fact.

eelmonster

08/04/2009, 8:52 PM

Palestinian flag is often waved at TX. But it is the same colours as the City colours so it shouldn't be a problem. Sure at Cork GAA matches the confederate (rebel) flag is flown. That could be perceived as racist as well, but in the context of a football match it shouldn't be.

Why Dundalk fans feel the need to wave it is another matter.

Black, white, red and green are Cork colours? It could be argued (but I'm not going to) that they're Dundalk's colours too.

The flag in question (which is stitched alongside a Basque flag and a green St. Andrew's cross) defaces the white portion of an Irish tricolour with the words Lilywhite Bhoys on Tour (or words to that effect) emblazoned top and bottom -- I would have thought the 'needs' of a certain number of Dundalk fans were fairly obvious. For me, it's an embarrassment, I cringe everytime I see it, it has no place at an Irish football match. Almost as embarrassing as Bohs fans' UVF flag on the first game of the season, or Rovers fans' Linfield chants last night.

dcfcsteve

08/04/2009, 8:53 PM

Perhaps a Peruvian national was at the match? Again if not, it wouldn't make sense.

Or maybe it's because it's a red and white flag.......?:rolleyes:

:o

John83

08/04/2009, 8:57 PM

Has no one read this? FAI say this was never reported. Seems media reporting rumour as fact.
Not so. The media have quoted the printed word of Dundalk's secretary, Kevin Holland. One of three things has happened here:

1) Holland lied.
2) The FAI official in question chose to report nothing.
3) The FAI have buried the report.

We can debate the likelyhood of any of these if you like, but there's nothing to confirm any of them.

Gaillimh Al

08/04/2009, 8:59 PM

Hold on a sec.

The piece is essentially quotes taken from a match programme by Dundalk FC's club secretary. This is not someone making up rumours. This was an issue that Kevin Holland of Dundalk FC obviously felt needed to be addressed in the public domain.

Why he made these claims is anyone's guess, but why not report them. The FAI responded and the issue is cleared up.

I will agree that the initial headline on piece was mis-leading.

eelmonster

08/04/2009, 9:28 PM

irishultra

08/04/2009, 10:31 PM

i wouldn't mind but the sort who come up with this crap are about as politically active as my little sister.

i always see palestine flag at barcelona matches and croatian team fans always bring irish flags to matches in uk(linfield in cl an example )

WoodquayBoy

08/04/2009, 10:58 PM

So extratime got the wrong end of the stick, again...

shoddy journalism, again...
Journalism? It's a gang of fans providing website updates, it hardly equates to journalism in fairness

betty swollox

08/04/2009, 11:01 PM

The third flag on that tri colour is a green st.Georges flag with "champions" written across it, presumably a reference to some scottish club :rolleyes:

Scrufil

09/04/2009, 12:05 AM

A flag flys at the end of a flag-pole. The majority of so called flags at football matches are banners. If a person or a club were to fly a defaced Irish tricolour on the end of a flag-pole then this could be deemed to be offensive. The only matter of debate then remains if a short pole actually is regarded as a proper flag pole as short poled flags tend to get waved rather than get fixed into position to occupy an official capacity.

I'd get more offended by seeing someone wearing a Rugby Shirt that represents an Irish province advertising Bank of Scotland than I'd get from seeing a few colourful banners appearing in League of Ireland grounds.

If the government really wanted to make a few bob it should introduce an on the spot fine for anyone wearing a sports shirt outside a sporting venue that advertises foreign goods! :D

HarpoJoyce

09/04/2009, 12:55 AM

To the football chant of
"U-S-A, U-S-A" an appropiate response is "Vi-Et-Nam, Vi-Et-Nam".
Certainly UCD fans are clued-up enough to respond in an appropiate manner.

Flawless

09/04/2009, 1:38 AM

The Flag in question was made by a group of Dundalk Fans for the Celtic vs Porto UEFA cup final. It was not Originally intended to be a DFC Flag but a one off for the final, it has since become a fixture in Oriel. I personally dont know who owns the flag but i do know thats where it came from..

bennocelt

09/04/2009, 7:40 AM

Black, white, red and green are Cork colours? It could be argued (but I'm not going to) that they're Dundalk's colours too.

The flag in question (which is stitched alongside a Basque flag and a green St. Andrew's cross) defaces the white portion of an Irish tricolour with the words Lilywhite Bhoys on Tour (or words to that effect) emblazoned top and bottom -- I would have thought the 'needs' of a certain number of Dundalk fans were fairly obvious. For me, it's an embarrassment, I cringe everytime I see it, it has no place at an Irish football match. Almost as embarrassing as Bohs fans' UVF flag on the first game of the season, or Rovers fans' Linfield chants last night.

whats that about?

as for political flags I honestly don't have a problem with them - i mean football is the be all and end all of everything so I guess some people want to express everything through their only outlet in life - or something like that - maybe!:)

Wasn't some anti - racism group trying to get the confederate falg banned at cork gah games a while back!?

Ash

09/04/2009, 8:07 AM

TV3 have already commissioned a 3 part series starring Brian Denehey as a
down on his luck, divorced, alcoholic FAI match delegate who lost custody of
his daughter due to his wreckless life but he pulls it all together to bring a gang
of Palastine flag waving Shamrock Rovers supporters, disguised as Dundalk fans,
causing mahem around Oriel Park, to justice.

Also starring Maxi as a petrol attendent and Sean Connor as The Devil