Kevin Foley

[jbyrne]

Look at McShane's club record


irrelevant.

our players always play above themselves at international level

[SwanVsDalton]

If people can't even reason their criticism why would you even listen or relay their comments? Just laugh at them, pity them and move on.

I didn't take him on, just relaying it here as an example of the knee jerk opinions people have on Irish players. Sure we've all heard similar about different guys.


im not as tr-apoplectic about McShanes inclusion (treatment of Foley notwithstanding) as i am about Green's but when a player is put in that box by the majority of critics (armchair or otherwise), its usually for very good reason.

There's truth in that, sure, but those good reasons rarely seem to extend to "McShane/Green/Keogh/Kilbane are usually dreadful but played well the other day."


I know exactly what you mean ; )

Uhhh OK. Get the feeling something's swooshing over my head here...

[paul_oshea]

Thats the whole point, you wouldn't ; )

[MeathDrog]

Look at McShane's club record. He's been moved on from club to club. Even Trap didn't pick him for the campaign just gone. Damien Delaney is a better option, not a great one, but a far better one. McShane is full of blood and thunder but has very little to recommend him as a Championship player, let alone an international.
Based on that argument Sledge would get nowhere near the team.

[paul_oshea]

Yes that argument is flawed, for both Dunne and Sledge, but have you ever been as worried watching either of them? I haven't, they are composed and good readers of the game, not rash and poor positionally or bad readers of the game. They also weren't at fault for the thierry henry goal.

[MeathDrog]

Yes that argument is flawed, for both Dunne and Sledge, but have you ever been as worried watching either of them? I haven't, they are composed and good readers of the game, not rash and poor positionally or bad readers of the game. They also weren't at fault for the thierry henry goal.

You're dead right, hence why Sledge and Dunne will start ahead of McShane if fit. :rolleyes:

That also seems to be a big part of the uproar over his call up. You'd swear he was being picked in the no. 10 spot with the team moulded around him.

[jbyrne]

They also weren't at fault for the thierry henry goal.

why bring 3 incompetent officials and a cheat into the mcshane / foley debate??

[paul_oshea]

Because when your leaking water, there is no point looking at where the water is filling up, but where the actual source is, turn it off and then sort the leak.

Before any of them can be blamed, Mcshane should have covered the angle, and not let him get in around him or even cleared the ball, knowing who(or what) was behind him. Because of his lack of spatial awareness he didn't know anyone was behind him,and because of his lack of foresight(his own position and his positional sense/reading of the game) he didn't anticipate anyone coming in behind him.

You could put it down to lack of experience but he isn't 16 or 17.

[geysir]

Yes that argument is flawed, for both Dunne and Sledge, but have you ever been as worried watching either of them? I haven't, they are composed and good readers of the game, not rash and poor positionally or bad readers of the game. They also weren't at fault for the thierry henry goal.
Didn't Dunne allow the ball to land when he should have met it with his head and hammered it clear, Sledge was nowhere to be seen, McShane lost sight& shape of Henry and Given failed to cut out a 'cutoutable' cross to Gallas.

[Stuttgart88]

You'd swear he was being picked in the no. 10 spot with the team moulded around him.Never underestimate the capacity for foot.ie to get its khaks in a twist over a marginal decision or to create a schism out of nothing. Here's a prediction: McShane will not see a minute's action at this tournament.

Here's another: Foley will still make the trip after O'Shea is pulled out. Trap, true to form, will then pick Foley ahead of McShane!

[mark12345]

why bring 3 incompetent officials and a cheat into the mcshane / foley debate??

Agreed. But while we're on the subject it was the system that's incompetent and not the officials. Guarantee you they never saw the handball. How could they through a forest of 18 or 20 bodies?

[mark12345]

Actually no, it was McShane who allowed the ball to land. And Given failed to cut out the cross because he was hypnotized by the handball. But again, McShane is the man to hang our hopes on. He'll be holding the EURO 2012 trophy aloft in July.

[geysir]

Richard Dunnes' awful defensive positioning and getting the wrong side of his marker, meant he missed a bread and butter centre half clearance, allowing the ball to continue its merry way to land in the box next to McShane. Panzer would have got man and ball.

[EastTerracer]

Paul O'Shea - it looks like you might have a free bet coming to you. This was posted on ybig and they seem to think you might be one of the people in the ad


@setantabet: €25 Free Bet if you are one of the Irish fans featured in our #Euro2012 advert. http://t.co/sAELoZmT > We've already found two! #YBIG

[BonnieShels]

Gary Waddock on Off the Ball now!!!

[Junior]

Paul O'Shea - it looks like you might have a free bet coming to you. This was posted on ybig and they seem to think you might be one of the people in the ad
Haha he is as well the big gombeen!!!

I won't disclose the time for fear of him being ridiculed on the forum........ Oh but wait.....

[Stuttgart88]

McShane is the man to hang our hopes on. He'll be holding the EURO 2012 trophy aloft in July. You're just a total tool if you think anyone here has said that. Take the bipolar disorder pills and come back when you're on an even keel. Stop polluting a half decent forum with your nonsense.

Infraction accepted with pleasure.

[Stuttgart88]

Yep, that's our Paul alright.

[paul_oshea]

cheers et.I hope tomorrow it won't be too late to claim my bet.Ill bet on mcshane getting the golden boot.

[mark12345]

You're just a total tool if you think anyone here has said that. Take the bipolar disorder pills and come back when you're on an even keel. Stop polluting a half decent forum with your nonsense.

Bipolar disorder pills?

I don't get it - all of a sudden McShane is a superstar, this coming after he had dropped off the face of the earth about two years ago.

Say what you want but if McShane does any good for Ireland at these championships I'll hold up my hands and say I was wrong. I stand by my comments and I'm guessing you stand by yours. Let's just wait until the thing unfolds and revisit the situation then.

[Crosby87]

cheers et.I hope tomorrow it won't be too late to claim my bet.Ill bet on mcshane getting the golden boot.

Hope you are getting royalties from that Ad! :film:

[boovidge]

Daily Mail saying he wont play for Trap again. No quote though, just the usual "has told friends".

[MeathDrog]

Bipolar disorder pills?

I don't get it - all of a sudden McShane is a superstar, this coming after he had dropped off the face of the earth about two years ago.

Say what you want but if McShane does any good for Ireland at these championships I'll hold up my hands and say I was wrong. I stand by my comments and I'm guessing you stand by yours. Let's just wait until the thing unfolds and revisit the situation then.
He probably won't even play, you absolute drama queen.

[Crosby87]

So now we have, McShane won't play (Coach's decision) and Foley won't play (coach hurt his feelings.) :D

[Stuttgart88]

Nobody has said McShane is a superstar. Some think he's utter garbage, some - rightly in my view - think he's better than that and that there's always someone singled out by the fans. I think everyone has concerns because he is limited and error prone, there's no doubt.

If anything it's Foley who has been elevated in status.

The facts are that neither was/is likely to feature much if at all. They're squad members to provide back-up.

[paul_oshea]

No my bet will be either McShane or Ward will cost us a goal, it might not be an own goal, but it will be their fault. :)

[Stuttgart88]

Ah, you can't just sneak Ward into this just like that!

[jbyrne]

Guarantee you they never saw the handball. How could they through a forest of 18 or 20 bodies?

id agree the ref and one linesman didnt see it but id be pretty sure the linesman on the other side did and just didnt have the nerve to make such a call

[tetsujin1979]

was at a wedding lately, and got talking to the groomsman. He was living in Paris at the time, and got a ticket in the French end. Was sitting behind the linesman and he saw it, so he still doesn't know how the linesman missed it

Anyway, I don't know how you blame the full back for two handballs by a player in an offside position.

[legendz]

It's a terrible way for a player to be treated. He has every reason to be ****** off. Still, I think Trap has made the right call.

[MeathDrog]

was at a wedding lately, and got talking to the groomsman. He was living in Paris at the time, and got a ticket in the French end. Was sitting behind the linesman and he saw it, so he still doesn't know how the linesman missed it

Anyway, I don't know how you blame the full back for two handballs by a player in an offside position.

that and he should have spotted the initial offside.

Anyway, enough of that.

[Stuttgart88]

Anyone remember McShane's first contribution in that game? The ball was swept over to his side, in between him and the guy he was marking. He couldn't decide whether to stay or go, belatedly decided to go and just cleaned out the French guy. I think that was within seconds of him coming on. Coming soon after the Keane & Duff misses I knew the game was up at that point.

[Zizou]

i bet there is not one clip of him playing for Ireland on that youtube piece.
his performances for any club he played for are of no relevance to his performances for us

Your right. By pulling on a Green shirt as opposed to any other colour, he magically becomes a good defender. How did I miss that... ;)

[jbyrne]

Your right. By pulling on a Green shirt as opposed to any other colour, he magically becomes a good defender. How did I miss that... ;)

the better players you are playing with, the better quality management, the style of football etc can all have an effect on a player lifting their game when they play for their country.

apart from paris, which is easily enough explained away, not one of the mcshane bashers posting here can come up with one incident in an Irish shirt where he cost us. instead we get the usual guff about how he did playing for foreign football clubs

[Murfinator]

Anyone remember McShane's first contribution in that game? The ball was swept over to his side, in between him and the guy he was marking. He couldn't decide whether to stay or go, belatedly decided to go and just cleaned out the French guy. I think that was within seconds of him coming on. Coming soon after the Keane & Duff misses I knew the game was up at that point.

And Mcgeady was even worse when he came on. Move on.

[Charlie Darwin]

Kevin Foley joins the list of prestigious Irishmen to have become an infinitely better footballer solely by virtue of being left out of the international squad.

[SkStu]

apart from paris, which is easily enough explained away, not one of the mcshane bashers posting here can come up with one incident in an Irish shirt where he cost us. instead we get the usual guff about how he did playing for foreign football clubs

ive not been bashing McShane but, off the top of my head, i remember the friendly against Serbia where he (iirc) stepped up really quickly on his own to try and play offside when no-one else in the defense moved at all, thus allowing the serbian striker an easy chance to score. Which he did. Whatever it was, i remember being shocked by it. In fairness, jbyrne, he's a pretty limited player, a bit of a headless chicken and a liability at international level. He doesnt inspire confidence at any level.

[SkStu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR2xjhy7ogA

comes after 5 minutes of the video.

[geysir]

That was Traps' first game against Serbia?
McShane was (merely) out of position along with Dunne, both centre halves looked out of position, caught out by a sucker high ball, an easy goal for a crafty striker.

[SkStu]

That was Traps' first game against Serbia? Afair, it wasn't McShane playing offside, he was (merely) out of position along with Dunne, both centre halves looked out of position, caught out by sucker high ball, an easy goal for a crafty striker.

he runs past his man up the field into no-mans land. Looked like offside to me. Either way, it was his fault. The striker was in his channel and McShane left the door wide open for him. Its clearly his fault.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think even Trap acknolwedged that one was McShane's fault. It was a faintly ridiculous dash forward, though Dunne was caught ball watching too. McShane even gives tacit acknowledgement with those extra tender hugs he gives Keogh after the goal.

[bishbash]

I think you can sum it up this way,

Paul Mcshane is very very poor, either at right back or centre back he's a poor player,

Tapattoni has treated Kevin Foley really badly weather you think its the right choice or wrong choice or weather he was going to play any part anyway, it was primative management from a manager whos been around the block almost seems arrogant about the decision,

Kevin Foley is a better right back than Paul Mcshane, doesnt make him a good player, but he is better,

Mcshane as a centre half is not really an option,

Marc Wilson would probaly been a better option than both in the 1st place.

[geysir]

I think even Trap acknolwedged that one was McShane's fault. It was a faintly ridiculous dash forward, though Dunne was caught ball watching too. McShane even gives tacit acknowledgement with those extra tender hugs he gives Keogh after the goal.

See, everything McShane does, even if its a positive act, is used to cement his guilt :)

[mark12345]

See Trap quoted as saying today that the player he has brought in instead of Kevin Foley (McShane) is not a foreign player?

Can someone explain?

[DannyInvincible]

I think he was trying to say that McShane was Irish, just like Foley, so he can't understand why the media continue to make a hoo-ha about his selection over Foley. Or something along those lines anyway.

Watch from 38:00: http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=3304166

I assume Trap's opening comment is the one to which you're referring.

[SwanVsDalton]

Yup. Think it's a 'McShane is Irish too, so get behind him instead of slating him' kind of comment.

[gastric]

Trap is growing tired of explaining why he brought McShane in. What did he expect, considering the way he handled it?

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2012/0531/323135-trap-finished-with-mcshane-explanations/

[Charlie Darwin]

You can see his point. Irish people get awfully concerned about jilted players' feelings when it suits them.

[gastric]

Granted. But after the ongoing discussion about his failure to pick McCarthy in the past, you would assume that he would be aware that such media interest would follow. Very badly handled overall and maybe he might learn something from it.

[Morbo]

I think Kevin Foley is being pretty immature in his reaction. He was not betrayed. At the last minute, and weighing up certain players, Trappatoni felt McShane was a more versatile defender. I don't necessarily agree with the decision but I can see the logic behind it and even if Foley is 100% sure Trap is making a mistake then he still needs to keep his trap shut and take it like a man. He is one of many young players and I understand his disappointment but he wasn't betrayed and I think he and his family need to be a bit more grown up about it.