One trick / on your bike Trap moanfest

[ainsie]

Before I post this I know people will say Trap just does not have the players
to work with so he has to make do. I dis agree. He has better players sitting on their rear ends in England.

My point is he is a stubborn ould lad that has one way of playing and only one way to coach. He does not have a plan B and goes into games without players in the squad that might give him a plan B. Tonight against Bulgaria was one of the saddest performances by an Irish team in years and anyone that says this Bulgarian team were good are wrong. Ireland made them look good. It looked like they just got together this morning.

I believe that the coach sets the mentality of the team and this team started the game trying not to loose.

Maybe we will qualify , but only because of the teams in our group are worse than us , not because we have a good coach. That performance tonight was no better than anything under Stan

My tuppence worth , I stand here to be corrected because I know this is a forum of strong opinions but please if you disagree show me and prove to me that the 24 that we has tonight are Ireland's best and if they are..... well then forget qualification.

[SkStu]

totally agree and have been saying it since the earliest days of his reign (in terms of games). I was so hopeful at the start with the young players we have in the premiership and championship that he just hasnt even really considered. Totally disillusioned with Trap to be perfectly honest and i dont care if hes a decorated coach or not, my only concern is the health and future of the irish team.

Ive mentioned Trap's legacy in past posts. He may get us to a world cup but it will be cheapened by the lack of development of our players with real potential, not just the water carriers currently making up the team.

[FarBeag]

Everything you say in your post is spot on.This guy is past it. All he does is spend his entire time on the sideline talking to himself.Yes he has won lots in his time but he did so with an abundance of talent at his disposal. He is that negative it’s unbelievable and the fact that he played McShane tonight says it all. There is not one creative player on the team all because of his fallout with Andy Reid over some late night music session. Don Givens would do a better job that this clown. We might get through but on false pretences.

[ainsie]

Its different to under Stan because this side has a strategy and purpose. They're notoriously difficult to break down, all we've conceded this campaign is from a Kilbane mistake, getting caught cold in the opening minutes and complacency in the dying moments against Georgia. With Stan we were getting picked apart by any team with the stones to do so, even San Marino got one past us.

Its frustrating to watch but we're jumping up the rankings, we're undefeated and we're still in the driving seat to get the play-off spot. It's not spectacular, its not matching our potential but it is satisfactory and thats a hell of a lot better than what we were getting in previous campaigns.

People are starting to rally against his selection decisions like they did with Stan but the difference in the outcome between the two is Trap won't cave and start calling up Carsley / Reid / Miller out of wilderness because the public demanded it. He's stubborn, yes. But look at it another way, he has incredible belief in his system and strategy, he's confident and has been confident from day 1 that we can qualify with his selection and strategy and that confidence and his resistance to buckle under pressure is a fantastic trait in a coach.

I disagree there, not buckling under pressure and being stubborn to the point of putting qualification in jeopardy are two different things. I believe he does not see beyond his own stubbornness. Its my way or the highway. I'm sure there are good men around him pointing this out(or not) but he has to see it is only by good fortune that we are where we are. My point relating to Stan is that tonight was on par with anything Stan put out except that they defended better. If that's your game plan then lets pick 24 defenders for the panel and we wont loose but we wont win much either. Thanks god the Bulgarians were just as bad as us.

BTW he has called Miller up and I wish he's let him back into the wilderness again :)

[Maroon 7]

That team is going nowhere with that central midfield. It is so limited it's not even funny. Petrov gave them the run around for 90 minutes by himself. Granted Steven Reid is to come back but given his injury record it's difficult to rely on him.

[ainsie]

Even before his fallout he didn't start Andy Reid in the first place for the same reason he didn't start Pirlo when he was managing Italy. A cautious, defensive manager was hired. What did you all expect, him to play a playmaker who's horrible defensively, two flying wingers, another winger at left back and paul freakin mcshane in the one team and still be satisfied with their defensive ability?


I expect him to pick the best 24 he has and make a decision on tactics based on who he has and then be able to change the tactics if need be. That to me is a good coach. Good coaches go into a game with a plan. If it works great but if its going wrong there needs to be a tactical change. He cannot or will not change. Granted who he did put out there tonight did not do themselves justice.

[Maroon 7]

Thing is Trap is not going to change his system at this stage in his life so we're stuck with it. Ideally if we had everyone available you'd hope he would find a way to get as many of our best players on the park together even if it meant changing the system but he's not going to do that even if Stephen Ireland declared himself available tomorrow and Andy Reid was called back into the squad on Monday.

[Crosby87]

The thing that is ridiculous is the team clearly plays much much better when behind or tied. That needs to be rectified. And it's the managers job. Its not against the law to try to play well to score a second f*****G goal!

[FarBeag]

Its different to under Stan because this side has a strategy and purpose. They're notoriously difficult to break down, all we've conceded this campaign is from a Kilbane mistake, getting caught cold in the opening minutes and complacency in the dying moments against Georgia. With Stan we were getting picked apart by any team with the stones to do so, even San Marino got one past us.


Are we? How many goals have we conceded so far and include the three against Poland? I bet that Austrian second rate club team was happy to get rid of this waster. We are just horrible to watch. We are second in this group simply because of luck and nothing more.

[Dr. Ogba]

Even before his fallout he didn't start Andy Reid in the first place for the same reason he didn't start Pirlo when he was managing Italy. A cautious, defensive manager was hired. What did you all expect, him to play a playmaker who's horrible defensively, two flying wingers, another winger at left back and paul freakin mcshane in the one team and still be satisfied with their defensive ability?

he couldn't have been any worse defensively than Whelan, and he might've even been able to play a forward pass or 2...fancy that!

i agree with the o.p, i hate to sound like a typical begrudging Irish fan but i think trap is living on borrowed time, its just so lucky that the standard in this group is horribly poor. Bulgaria are one of the worst second seeds i've seen play in a long long time...they were there for the taking several times in that match, and defensive coach or not, the goal is to WIN games and if a team is there for the taking they should be taken...full stop

[lopez]

Funny how we have had four managers on the trot without a 'plan B.' :confused:

In fact you can count that as five if you include JC when the backpass law was changed and/or everyone else started to figure out the big hoof forward.

You said it perfectly in the very first line of your post: 'Trap just does not have the players.' In fact I'd say that Trap does not have the players (and replacements when they are crocked) in three key positions: Left back, right back...and the position currently occupied - whatever that is supposed to be - by the donkey that has managed to get a job with the current champions league holders. In the word of Alexandra, founder of comparethemeerkat.com : 'Simples!'

[greendeiseboy]

Agreee totally with this thread. tonight was awful.......god help us on Wednesday.

Another point is has anyone noticed how his English has not improved over his time in charge. I for one find it difficult to understand what he is on about so you can imagine that it must be the same for the players. Listen to Capello and the way he comes across.

I really thought when he took over that it would be the beginning of a new positive era for us.

Ok we are in a good position but we were lucky against Georgia and Cyprus and the tougher games are yet to come.

I counted tonight at one point in the space of about two minute where we gave the ball away six times in a row.

Bulgaria were just as bad but they were the away team.

The positives : Shay Given and Kevin Doyle and maybe Dunne and O'Shea but that's it.

Keane is headless got caught in possession too often and was lazy in getting back from offside positions

We need a management team that knows the players and one that is willing to check the players out week in week out.........not one that relies in the main on videos....how the hell you can assess a player by watching a video is beyond me

For what it'sworth this would be my team if all were available

Given

O'Shea
Dunne
St Ledger
Darren O'Dea or Kevin Foley


Andy Reid
Steven Reid / Ireland
Duff
Mc Geady

Keane
Doyle

As much as we will find it hard to forgive it is imperative we get Ireland back on board

[Jicked]

Noone should be allowed say boo about Andy reid's exclusion until they can name three good performances he's had in an Irish shirt.

For those of you moaning about Trap, just think how different we are from a the end of Staunton's reign, and he's done that with the same players.

And in no way at all will qualifying for a World Cup be cheapened because he didn't give Owen fecking Garvan a run out for gods sake. At what stage do you want us to actually stop playing for 4 years away and go and try to qualify by hook or by crook with an squad of players that have no right to easily take first or second place?

[irishultra]

Maby Trap can provide good foundations for our next coach who will hopefully have a bit more faith in the players ability at his disposle.

[Jicked]

Maby Trap can provide good foundations for our next coach who will hopefully have a bit more faith in the players ability at his disposle.

I simply don't understand the mentality or IQ of a lot of people on here. On one hand, we've no full backs, or midfielders are rubbish and our star striker Robbie Keane is overrated and should be stripped of the captaincy. On the other hand we need a manager who trusts these footballing geniuses and unleashes McShane as the new Cafu, confidently leaving our world class defence to mop up any threat thrown at them, just as they used to in previous campaigns?!

Then we listen to people talk about Andy reid having a role to play, when for years he watched games pass him by in midfield, and people listen to Dunphy who today said that he has seen a lot of Kishishev play for Charlton, when in fact he hasn't played there since 2007 and even then Dunphy was never watching championship games.

[greendeiseboy]

[QUOTE=Jicked;1132260]

For those of you moaning about Trap, just think how different we are from a the end of Staunton's reign, and he's done that with the same players


To be honest I'm struggling to see how different things are since Staunton - maybe a few wins against Georgia and Cyprus in this group - hardly inspiring given the performances in these games

We were woeful tonight, woeful against Poland

[Jicked]

[QUOTE=Jicked;1132260]

For those of you moaning about Trap, just think how different we are from a the end of Staunton's reign, and he's done that with the same players


To be honest I'm struggling to see how different things are since Staunton - maybe a few wins against Georgia and Cyprus in this group - hardly inspiring given the performances in these games

We were woeful tonight, woeful against Poland
If you can't see an improvement over Staunton then give up watching football.

[mark12345]

"We need a management team that knows the players and one that is willing to check the players out week in week out."

Doesn't matter who or what is managing this team they just don't have it within themselves to retain possession for longer than a couple of seconds, and are way behind other teams technically.

Whoever made the point about us giving the ball away six times in the space of a couple of seconds is spot on. That's what its all about - not giving the ball away like snuff at a wake.

Bulgaria kept possession, grew in confidence in our half, kept probing and finally got the goal they deserved. Does anyone on this board believe if Kilbane had have hit that cross out for a corner that we would not have been defending with our lives for the remaining 20 minutes? Of course we would.

It's all down to our style of play. Score a goal and defend in numbers and hope for the best. It's been that way since Roy Keane was captain in Israel and long before that.

Have to agree about specific comments about McShane and Whelan. Both players are pure unadulterated rubbish. I believe Andrews is worth keeping but if he's not going to put in Reid then let him at least go for Garvan. Whelan was anonymous and allowed the white shirts to pour through the middle all night long.

Bottom line is we're going nowhere with one of the weakes midfields in the world and with players in general who are unable to hold possession.

[SkStu]

blah blah blah.

time to wake up a bit there, head. We havent beaten anyone of note yet. We have failed our first real test in this group, Bulgaria at home.

If you think Robbie Keane played well out there today then i think you are the one who needs to give up watching football. Seriously. Im a fan of Keane but he was af*ckingnonymous today bar one or two trips out to the left wing.

If youre hapy to qualify for the world cup an then get lashed out of it by any team we face then good luck to you. Im not.

There are tough questions for Trap to answer and they are not the ones about Reid or Ireland. Theyre both no-brainers to me. Trap needs to be quizzed on his inclusions as opposed to his omissions.

Why is Caleb Folan in the squad?
Why does Liam Miller get called up?
Why does McShane even get near the squad, never mind next choice full back?
What did Stokes do to be next in line after Duff's injury? What was his logic behind that choice?
Why does he never make a substitution in order to try and change the game around, replace tired players etc.

Those are just for starters. Im on my way out now to get hammered.

Seriously Jicked, if you are happy with how things are going and the job Trapatoni is doing, then good luck to you. :rolleyes:

[Den Perry]

I have to say I like Trappatoni as our manager. That doesn't mean I agree with all his choices. I presume Whelan is in the team to prevent / destroy. Yet Petrov ran theshow tonight and how he didn't get man of math is beyond me...we runn the risk of being as biased as Northern Ireland (that commentary on the Polish match was embarrassing). My understanding is reid is out becaushe doesn't track back etc. Yet where was whelan when Petrov crossed for the goal?At least andrews was trying to close down the player that played the initial pass and he does offer something.

On top of that I think s hunt is way overrated and completely out of his depth.
Mcgeady is also extremely frustrating, but could be class

[FarBeag]

time to wake up a bit there, head. We havent beaten anyone of note yet. We have failed our first real test in this group, Bulgaria at home.

If you think Robbie Keane played well out there today then i think you are the one who needs to give up watching football. Seriously. Im a fan of Keane but he was af*ckingnonymous today bar one or two trips out to the left wing.

If youre hapy to qualify for the world cup an then get lashed out of it by any team we face then good luck to you. Im not.

There are tough questions for Trap to answer and they are not the ones about Reid or Ireland. Theyre both no-brainers to me. Trap needs to be quizzed on his inclusions as opposed to his omissions.

Why is Caleb Folan in the squad?
Why does Liam Miller get called up?
Why does McShane even get near the squad, never mind next choice full back?
What did Stokes do to be next in line after Duff's injury? What was his logic behind that choice?
Why does he never make a substitution in order to try and change the game around, replace tired players etc.

Those are just for starters. Im on my way out now to get hammered.

Seriously Jicked, if you are happy with how things are going and the job Trapatoni is doing, then good luck to you. :rolleyes:

Good post. At least you have insight. There is no point trying to argue with that football genius Jicked because he thinks no one else has an right to an opinion and just like some posters on here have an obsession with certain players he appears to have one with the present Irish manager.

[mypost]

unleashes McShane as the new Cafu, confidently leaving our world class defence to mop up any threat thrown at them,

:D

If we're looking to top the World Champions in the group, tonight's result was bad. :rolleyes: If we're looking for the runners-up spot, we're still in a decent position going into the second half of games.

It's all about patience. Trap's tactics worked in Mainz, last month, and in the other games. If KK hadn't hit the target tonight, it would have worked again. It's hard on the eyes, but we have limited ability players, some of them not playing in the Premiership, and Trap's way, however ugly, is working.

The prize lies in wait in the Autumn, our fate is still in our own hands. That wasn't the case last time.

[third policeman]

Noone should be allowed say boo about Andy reid's exclusion until they can name three good performances he's had in an Irish shirt.



Away to Holland, away to France, home to Italy, most of the latter games in Stan's Euro campaign and that's without thinking. Even Reid's bad games are better than Whelan's allegedly good ones. I go with the majority on this. I have been watching Ireland for 30 plus years and this is the most sterile and at times frankly embarrassingly poor team I have ever seen. We have been outplayed in virtualy every game we have played under Trapp (Serbia, Columbia, Poland, Cyprus, Bulgaria) and these are not great sides. NI exposed Poland last night and yet they came to Croker and completely bossed the game. We are not playing football, we are incapable of retaining possesion, we are creating nothing and we are selecting players who are manifestly not good enough to play at this level. Under Stan we were a shambles, but even then there were occasional glimpses of something resembling football, isolated moments of coherence and creativity.

Maybe we are not blessed with our greatest squad of all time, but we certainly have better right backs than McShane (Foley, Carr and Kelly would all have offered more last night) and we have better players outside the squad than any of the options on last night's bench. Delap, Reid, Morrison would all have offered something different as would Long whose ommission in favour of S. Hunt was another bafflingly perverse instance of Trapp genius. On the basis that Trapp does not have the capacity to change his tactics or revise his selection policy, I expect to lose againts Italy home and away and probably lose away to Cyprus and in Bulgaria as well. The Trapp experiment is an expensive and grotesque mistake, it's a typical knee-jerk reaction by the FAI to the farcical appointment of Staunton.

[mypost]

Under Stan we were a shambles, but even then there were occasional glimpses of something resembling football, isolated moments of coherence and creativity.

No there wasn't. Staunton was a total disaster.

Trappattoni beat Cyprus in one go, when Staunton couldn't do it in two, with allegedly better players.

Trap has us second in the group, playing players in their proper positions, and getting results. That's what he was hired for.

[papa-j]

I have to say I like Trappatoni as our manager. That doesn't mean I agree with all his choices. I presume Whelan is in the team to prevent / destroy. Yet Petrov ran theshow tonight and how he didn't get man of math is beyond me...we runn the risk of being as biased as Northern Ireland (that commentary on the Polish match was embarrassing). My understanding is reid is out becaushe doesn't track back etc. Yet where was whelan when Petrov crossed for the goal?At least andrews was trying to close down the player that played the initial pass and he does offer something.

On top of that I think s hunt is way overrated and completely out of his depth.
Mcgeady is also extremely frustrating, but could be class

agree about hunt. Not tactically or technically up to scratch. Normally you cant fault his attitude and even though he is a limited player his energy around the pitch can make things happen. However he looked a bit flat last night and really isn't an option when playing like that. If we had an option at left full then i'd start kilbane on left side of mid on wed. We absolutely must change McShane, Italy will target him and tear him apart.

Funnily I think we will get a result on Wed as our system will mirror Italy in terms of their midfield wont come pouring forward and if we can stop them outwide and sit on Pirlo(easier said than done) then we have a chance. Dunne and o'Shea will need to have stormers in the centre and deal with Pirlos defence splitting passes. Doyle will cause them endless problems and I fancy Robbie to nick one. They looked like they were finally on the same wavelength last night, although still work to do. It wont be pretty( big surprise) but we are well capable of getting a draw and if we are even more direct and clinical at set pieces we could cause an upset.

[the doc]

I've said all along that Trap was only here to take the money and run, he has no plan "B" either!

If he was using friendlies and "B" games to get players not in the squad used to the system, with a view for them to be ready incase of injuries to players in the squad then you could see that he was at least planning ahead.

But no, he has just gone with the same squad that he inherited, in addition to keeping Given's in the set up too!

The whole selection set up is a shambles as are people such as Given's and Brady having what seems to be "jobs for life" despite not doing anything productive to the future and well being of the national team.

No wonder Billy Davies turned the job down before they gave it to Trap, Billy Davies wanted to bring in his own men at senior and under age levels.

At the very least that would of kept people on their toes and got rid of the likes of Givens, who seems to be a law unto himself!

Onto Italy now, who knows we may get lucky, but at the end of the day it would only paper over the cracks!

Sorry Trapp you've been rumbled!

[Jicked]

Originally Posted by SkStu http://foot.ie/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=1132289#post1132289)
time to wake up a bit there, head. We havent beaten anyone of note yet. We have failed our first real test in this group, Bulgaria at home.

If you think Robbie Keane played well out there today then i think you are the one who needs to give up watching football. Seriously. Im a fan of Keane but he was af*ckingnonymous today bar one or two trips out to the left wing.

If youre hapy to qualify for the world cup an then get lashed out of it by any team we face then good luck to you. Im not.

There are tough questions for Trap to answer and they are not the ones about Reid or Ireland. Theyre both no-brainers to me. Trap needs to be quizzed on his inclusions as opposed to his omissions.

Why is Caleb Folan in the squad?
Why does Liam Miller get called up?
Why does McShane even get near the squad, never mind next choice full back?
What did Stokes do to be next in line after Duff's injury? What was his logic behind that choice?
Why does he never make a substitution in order to try and change the game around, replace tired players etc.

Those are just for starters. Im on my way out now to get hammered.

Seriously Jicked, if you are happy with how things are going and the job Trapatoni is doing, then good luck to you. :rolleyes:


Good post. At least you have insight. There is no point trying to argue with that football genius Jicked because he thinks no one else has an right to an opinion and just like some posters on here have an obsession with certain players he appears to have one with the present Irish manager.




What the **** are you on about? When have I said anyone can't have an opinion? All I'm saying is that there are people on here seriously advocating that the steven staunton era was better than last night. Do you not realise how incredibly insane that is? Seriously, people saying the Staunton years wasnt a disgrace?!

I don't know why those individual players are in the squad. The way I see it is the manager, one of the most succesfull in the history of football, knows what type of players he wants to play in his system. he sees certain things in certain players and goes with them, not calling up whoever is flavour of the month because a few fans on here read on Aertel that Player X scored against Burnley and so should be the fulcrum of the team in the next game.

McShane gets a game because the other option who has played premiership or international football is Stephen Kelly.
Stokes gets in the squad after Duff was out because even if he is a bit ****, he can play wide on the right in the same way that Duff/McGeady does. Andy Reid can not play in that style, and so playing him would change the system. Also, lets not forget Brady has worked with Stokes for years.
I agree Trap should use his subs bench, but then again I hardly think its that big a gripe if we get results, which we do. We "failed" nothing last night, a draw is a grand result and keeps our noses in front of Bulgaria, a shame we didn't win, but did you really expect players who were being laughed at by cyprus a year ago to breeze in to the playoffs?

Stan the Man went down the road of chucking in young players like you're advocating building the bloody team around Garvan or someone who's got high ratings on championship manager. It didn't work.


You say we've been outplayed in all these games against other teams, yet we've gotten a result in nearly all of them, bar Poland, and none of those sides have found us easy to score against. I can't believe you seriously don't want ireland to qualify because Owen Garvan or Kevin Foley haven't been involved. If stephen hunt had have been left at home last night you'd be clammering for his inclusion after reading he scored a few goals on teletext.

[Kildare Lad]

I see where people are coming from on this, poor performances, should be beating teams such as Bulgaria & Montenegro, hes not picking our best players, etc. Nobody can (or should) realistically expect us to finish top of this group considering the world champions are in it, so therefore second place and a play-off should be the aim, and as it stands we are in pole position to finish second, even if Bulgaria win their game in hand we are still 4 points ahead of them.

If Trapatoni gets us that second place, thats the first part of his job done. Second part being winning the play off. No matter how unattractive our football is, results is what matters.

[mypost]

I think most reasonable people would have been delighted with taking 11 points from the first half of games, considering where we were 12-18 months ago.

You know what would have happened under the last coach. Draws against Georgia, Cyprus and Bulgaria, and a loss in Montenegro. 4 points from 15. So the new boss has bought us a 7 point swing in 12 months.

And still people moan. :rolleyes:

[Jicked]

I see where people are coming from on this, poor performances, should be beating teams such as Bulgaria & Montenegro, hes not picking our best players, etc. Nobody can (or should) realistically expect us to finish top of this group considering the world champions are in it, so therefore second place and a play-off should be the aim, and as it stands we are in pole position to finish second, even if Bulgaria win their game in hand we are still 4 points ahead of them.

In fairness I don't really see why people think we should expect to beat Bulgaria

[tetsujin1979]

it's a typical knee-jerk reaction by the FAI to the farcical appointment of Staunton.Knee jerk reactions generally don't take 5 months

[Jicked]

Knee jerk reactions generally don't take 5 months

Nor is appointing a management team with the experience and caliber of Trap/Tardelli/Brady.
Then again, in the same post this guy bemoans the lack of Steven Carr, Rory Delap, Clinton Morrisson and Shane Long, and seriously says that Trap's selection policy is wrong for excluding players of that quality. If he did pick players like that, people would demand the inclusion of world beaters Keith Andrews and Glenn Whelan.

[third policeman]

In fairness I don't really see why people think we should expect to beat Bulgaria


I dont think its unreasonable to expect to see an international team capable of putting three passes together. The issue with Trapp is not the results (these have been acceptable albeit fortuitous), its the appalling quality of the football and the abject lack of imagination. We are a poor team, and even if we somehow qualify for the WC we will be found out. I dont think anyone is saying that there has not been some improvement in organisational terms from the Staunton era. Yes we are more difficult to beat, but maybe some of us have higher aspirations. Maybe there are coaches out there who are capable of organising a team and accomodating good technical players.

[FarBeag]

In fairness I don't really see why people think we should expect to beat Bulgaria

So when the group came out what teams did you expect us to beat? I suppose you are just pleased to sit through 90 minutes of rubbish and if we get lucky as we have been in every match we have won then you are happy irrespective of how the team played. We have players good enough to be expecting to beat all teams in this group bar Italy. We have better players than McShane, Kilbane, Whelan and Hunt.

I am glad we are in second place but we are only there because we have been lucky in every game we have played so far. We will be lucky to get a result in any of our remaining games as well but I think that it will run out and God only knows how we will win or draw our next games then. The U21 team beat Spain the other night and this was down to a good team effort with some very good play. NI beat a Poland team that hammered us in Dublin. Have they got better players than us? No they have not imo.

[Irish_Praha]

There is no doubthing that Trap has gone a long way to sort out the mess that Staunton left behind. There have been many positives and the results in general have been acceptable. However, it's not too much to expect that he would be a better coach/manager than Stan. The team has its strong and weak areas, which have been debated to infinitum here already. The squad selections have raised a few questions but IMO it is debateable that there is a major difference in the players being ignored and the ones that are in the squad. I also think that the majority of fans would agree with his starting 11. So on all these counts I'm happy enough with Trap's performace so far.

As has been stated on here already, his major negative point is just that, his negativity. Any time we have scored an early goal we jump into our shells and play way too defensively. We just try to stop the other team from creating anything and as a result limit our own attacking ability. Sometimes this works in our favour but more often than not if you invite a half decent team onto you for 70 or 80 mins they will evetually score a goal. Why don't we just go for the jugular and try finish off a game? If we are on top of a game and are good value for our 1-0 lead then there should be more goals in it. As soon as Bulgaria scored we woke up and created at least 3 really good chance in the last 15 mins which was more than in the 70 mins between the two goals. We can play much better when we want but why only when we really need a goal?

This was also the case for Kerr (Isreal and Switzerland away) and Stan (Cyprus at home). At the moment if I was comparing our current and past managers I would give Trap and Kerr similar marks. Both teams very well organised but ultimately too conservative.

[weldoninhio]

Manager

Milan 1974-1974

Milan 1976-1976

Juventus 1976-1986

Internazionale 1986-1991

Juventus 1991-1994

Bayern Munich 1994-1995

Cagliari 1995-1996

Bayern Munich 1996-1998

Fiorentina 1998-2000

Italy 6 July 2000-15 July 2004

Benfica 2004-2005

Stuttgart 2005-2006

Red Bull Salzburg May 2006-April 2008

Republic of Ireland May 2008-Present


Benfica, Stuttgart, Red Bull Salzburg!! If Il Trap is such a "world class" manager why has he been coaching such mediocre teams since he was hounded out of the Italian job five years ago??

[Jicked]

I said we shouldn't expect to beat Bulgaria, not that we couldn't. of course we could have won that game last night, we didn't, cest la vie. But we didn't lose it, and for all of Bulgaria's posession which was dissapointing, they created only one clear cut chance, and only scored from an own-goal.

Of course we'll get found out at a world cup, we're probably not going to win the thing. If we get to the world cup we'll end up playing in a group a side of the class of Italy, who we'd probably be able to frustrate and annoy, perhaps nicking a point. Then we'd have a side of the caliber of Bulgaria/Colombia/Serbia, who as we've seen we can match, and then a lower ranking side who I'd be confident we could put away. We'd hardly lose every game 3-0, or, I dont know, 5-2.

[Jicked]

Benfica, Stuttgart, Red Bull Salzburg!! If Il Trap is such a "world class" manager why has he been coaching such mediocre teams since he was hounded out of the Italian job five years ago??

So you're now questioning Trapattoni's record? I wouldn't consider Benfica or Stuttgart mediocre teams, I would consider Ireland mediocre when without Duff, Steven Reid, Finnan and Ireland though.

[fionnsci]

I don't know how you can call Benfica and Stuttgart mediocre teams.

[weldoninhio]

They are hardly world beaters!!!

[Jicked]

They are hardly world beaters!!!

So they're not Man Utd, Barcelona, Liverpool or someone else you've heard Andy Gray say has a good chance of winning the Champions League? Belittling teams like Benfica and Stuttgart just shows how out of touch some Irish fans are.

Trap should be more experimental, call up more youth.
Why isn't Trap calling up Carsley, he'd make the difference and boss Bulgaria off the pitch.
McShane and Kilbane are two of our worst ever fullbacks.
Why don't we play a free flowing attacking game?

[weldoninhio]

So they're not Man Utd, Barcelona, Liverpool or someone else you've heard Andy Gray say has a good chance of winning the Champions League? Belittling teams like Benfica and Stuttgart just shows how out of touch some Irish fans are.

Trap should be more experimental, call up more youth.
Why isn't Trap calling up Carsley, he'd make the difference and boss Bulgaria off the pitch.
McShane and Kilbane are two of our worst ever fullbacks.
Why don't we play a free flowing attacking game?

I'm not belittling teams like Benfica or Stuttgart, i'm just saying they are not "world class" as our manager is constanly referred to as.

[Jicked]

You referred to them as mediocre. Benfica were Portuguese champions under Trapattoni, Stuttgart were Bundesliga winners in 2006/07.

[ainsie]

I think people are missing my point here. My main points were simply. Has he got Irelands best 24 available to him in his squad.? IMO No. Is he tactically adept? IMO no. Is he Lucky? Very.(He might have been a genius but not any more)

My main point was that last nights"performance" was the worst I have seen in a long time, probably since Stan was in charge. (Not saying Stan was better or anything near in the same class or ever will be)

Lasty , I dont think any manager should be a dictator as he seems to be. He has his way of doing it and nothing, not even the match circumstances will dictate to him to change it.
Good managers will adapt if need be to changing circumstances in a game and he just seems to not be able to or not willing to admit he gets things wrong.
To the people that say we are doing great to be where we are , thats true but its down to luck more than good management.

There just has to be another solution for midfield. I don't know it but I'm not being paid 2 mil a year to solve it.

[FarBeag]

I think people are missing my point here. My main points were simply. Has he got Irelands best 24 available to him in his squad.? IMO No. Is he tactically adept? IMO no. Is he Lucky? Very.(He might have been a genius but not any more)

My main point was that last nights"performance" was the worst I have seen in a long time, probably since Stan was in charge. (Not saying Stan was better or anything near in the same class or ever will be)

Lasty , I dont think any manager should be a dictator as he seems to be. He has his way of doing it and nothing, not even the match circumstances will dictate to him to change it.
Good managers will adapt if need be to changing circumstances in a game and he just seems to not be able to or not willing to admit he gets things wrong.
To the people that say we are doing great to be where we are , thats true but its down to luck more than good management.

There just has to be another solution for midfield. I don't know it but I'm not being paid 2 mil a year to solve it.

Well said. Another man living in the real world.

[weldoninhio]

I think people are missing my point here. My main points were simply. Has he got Irelands best 24 available to him in his squad.? IMO No. Is he tactically adept? IMO no. Is he Lucky? Very.(He might have been a genius but not any more)

My main point was that last nights"performance" was the worst I have seen in a long time, probably since Stan was in charge. (Not saying Stan was better or anything near in the same class or ever will be)

Lasty , I dont think any manager should be a dictator as he seems to be. He has his way of doing it and nothing, not even the match circumstances will dictate to him to change it.
Good managers will adapt if need be to changing circumstances in a game and he just seems to not be able to or not willing to admit he gets things wrong.
To the people that say we are doing great to be where we are , thats true but its down to luck more than good management.

There just has to be another solution for midfield. I don't know it but I'm not being paid 2 mil a year to solve it.

Exactly.

[Maroon 7]

Trap has got the team organised and the defence at least look like they know what they should be doing compared to when Stan was in charge (although anything would be an improvement on Stan's defensive organisation). However we are no better going forward or in retaining possession than we were under Stan. In fact we may even be slightly worse.

[FarBeag]

Your correct but the only difference in defence is that Dunne and O'Shea are playing well as a unit. The left and right back positions are a big problem though.

[osarusan]

:D
Trap's tactics worked in Mainz, last month, and in the other games. If KK hadn't hit the target tonight, it would have worked again. It's hard on the eyes, but we have limited ability players, some of them not playing in the Premiership, and Trap's way, however ugly, is working.

Even if we had won last night, I don't think that you could say Trap's tactics are the reason for the result. I'm not sure that worked in Mainz and they certainly didn't work against Georgia or Cyprus.

A win doesn't vindicate the tactics used in the game.

I honestly think we have got the results so far because the other teams are very, very poor.

Having seen us give up so much possession against every team we have played so far, I'd expect us to do the same against the Italians, but I think they will punish us more than any team so far.

For a manager that people say is a defensive manager who isn't going to change his tactics at this stage in his career - if he has been doing it for so long, you'd expect him to be better at it.

[del_carroll]

I was against Trap at the beginning, for a number of reasons
1. I felt the Irish players would not be able to grasp what he wanted from them when they are from a completely different footballing culture; this was going to be made more difficult by the language gap.
2. His football is just awful to watch, and it is hard to know whether it is worth suffering through it even if it brings with it an increased chance of qualifying.
Any yet I would have to say that Ireland are further along now than I had thought they would be; the managerial appointment is far surpassing my expectations. To say there has been no improvement from Staunton is ludicrous.

In Trap's defence:
The standard of player available to him has generally declined with time. No Stephen Reid, no Steven ireland, no fullbacks, indifferent form from Robbie Keane. Based on a player career of 10 years, then you need at least one of 2 decent players emerging every year to keep standards up. Apart from the excellent Aidan McGeady and possibly Kevin Doyle , not a single quality player has emerged in the last 3-4 years. We are woefully inadequate in certain key positions. Central Midfield is obvious, but just as important is the lack of dynamism goign forward, which is the consequence of having such a dearth of ability at fullback, which allows opposition defenders / midfield always to double up on the 2 attacking threats Duff and McGeady. There were 2-3 players marking McGeady each time he got on the ball last night.

Andy Reid; Sometimes a manager has to draw a line over which it has to be clear players dare not tread. An ongoing problem of the last 10 years has been sloppy discipline, and a sloppy approach to game preparation. This drove Roy Keane nuts, and it is no surprise that Trap has taken a tough line with Andy Reid if he feels that he is a bad influence, and at the same time he is expendible. The portly messiah obvioulsy fits into this category in Trap's mind....I think at this point he is being overly stubborn on this point at this stage, but look how long Dave O'Leary (a far superior player) was frozen out under JC....stubborness is hardly unique to Trap; it may indeed prove useful at some stage.

Steven Ireland; who knows what is going on in this man`s brain. I would love to see him in an Ireland shirt, but I do not think it would be dignified to have the national Team coach of Trap's seniority going with begging bowl in hand to get hime back. There are enough other individuals there who are in a better place to take the initiative; Liam Brady, Richard Dunne....I am sure there are any number of people from Ireland's past who could be used to make an attempt or contacted by Steven if he wanted to come back. So bugger it, he is outside the panel for now; it don't really see what Trap can do.

Composition of the panel; Lee Carsely is not going to do anything Andrews, Gibson and Whelan are not already doing. Clinton Morrison, maybe...there are a number of players which may be worth discussing but these are all playeers from the first division in england, so they are very unlikely to make much of a difference really. All the available Irish players (with the exception of aforementioned Messiah) playing in the Premiership are in the squad, so any other discussion, keeps discussion boards going, but is essentially irrelevant.

As for the ineptitude of the performace; every Irish team I have watched has struggled when taking the lead in games. My joy at the early goal last night was tempered by the memory of; Israel home and away under Kerr (when the legendary Roy Keane was on the pitch to dictate things), Holland 2000, England 1988 and so on. So this is nothing new either. I doubt whether the slack passing and terrible lack of movement following the goal can be laid at Trap's door. Any one would have to concede that Ireland were actually better in the second half, once he'd had a chance to talk to them at half time.

1-1 last night was not disastrous for us,it is actually a good result and one I would have taken at the beginning of the qualification campaign. There has however been an unbelievable sense of despondency around after the match. I believe the reason for this is not neccessarily rational, rather it is the result of watching 94 minutes of the utterly joyless football which is Trap's trademark. I can remember watching "good" results with Stuttgart,including a 0-0 draw with Bayern, but feeling somehow empty after the match. Nobody really wants to watch this type of football. Kerr was hounded out because of it, and it was only tolerated in Charlton's time because of the relative success enjoyed.

I honestly believe now, that we are doing as well as we can, I don't really see how he could utilise the "talent" he has any better. At least, the defence is reasonably solid (given the paucity of full back talent, this is a very good achievement). We have also generated chances in each game and could easily have won yesterday. You can say what you like about possession, territory etc, but the freakish goal for Bulgaria was their only real attack of the second half and I think Given made 2 easy saves all game. If Robbie and Kevin Doyle has have been a bit more clinical we'd have a second goal and we'd have had our long awaited win aginst a second seed.
Trap is good value for money, no other manager would do any better, so cheer up and get behind the team. The players themselves might play with a little more belief and confidence, if the entire fan base / media were not moaning all the time.

Besides, what exact alternative did people have in mind?