One trick / on your bike Trap moanfest

[Jicked]

I honestly believe now, that we are doing as well as we can, I don't really see how he could utilise the "talent" he has any better. At least, the defence is reasonably solid (given the paucity of full back talent, this is a very good achievement). We have also generated chances in each game and could easily have won yesterday. You can say what you like about possession, territory etc, but the freakish goal for Bulgaria was their only real attack of the second half and I think Given made 2 easy saves all game. If Robbie and Kevin Doyle has have been a bit more clinical we'd have a second goal and we'd have had our long awaited win aginst a second seed.
Trap is good value for money, no other manager would do any better, so cheer up and get behind the team. The players themselves might play with a little more belief and confidence, if the entire fan base / media were not moaning all the time.

Besides, what exact alternative did people have in mind?

well said that man

[Fizzer]

time to wake up a bit there, head. We havent beaten anyone of note yet. We have failed our first real test in this group, Bulgaria at home.

If you think Robbie Keane played well out there today then i think you are the one who needs to give up watching football. Seriously. Im a fan of Keane but he was af*ckingnonymous today bar one or two trips out to the left wing.

If youre hapy to qualify for the world cup an then get lashed out of it by any team we face then good luck to you. Im not.

There are tough questions for Trap to answer and they are not the ones about Reid or Ireland. Theyre both no-brainers to me. Trap needs to be quizzed on his inclusions as opposed to his omissions.

Why is Caleb Folan in the squad?
Why does Liam Miller get called up?
Why does McShane even get near the squad, never mind next choice full back?
What did Stokes do to be next in line after Duff's injury? What was his logic behind that choice?
Why does he never make a substitution in order to try and change the game around, replace tired players etc.

Those are just for starters. Im on my way out now to get hammered.

Seriously Jicked, if you are happy with how things are going and the job Trapatoni is doing, then good luck to you. :rolleyes:

Agree with you. Some relevant questions there. Incredibly, I think the Keogh substitution, far from being an attempt to snatch victory in the dying seconds, was a defensive move because of a fear we could lose.
We settled for scoring one goal for the entire game and were deservedly punished. I've never seen a worse Irish performance, to be honest, I think peoople are being generous to Trapp if they think that was some sort of 'system'. I was there, it was dire. What the hell use is it grinding out a nil-nil, in Bari if we can't comfortably beat rubbish opposition at home.

[rambler14]

If he just made one sub that could change the way were playing i'd be delighted but he never does, the only time he makes a change is to waste time or when someones injured!

It beggers belief how he could be satisfied with the 11 who started last night!

[barney]

This thread is comical. Should Andy Reid be in the squad? Probably. Is he the answer to our problems? No. Reid is a mediocre player in reality. Couldn't hack it at Tottenham, is hardly tearing up the trees at Sunderland. Good passer of a ball but isn't a winger by any stretch of the imagination and isn't a workhorse central midfielder. Obviously something has gone on with Reid that is keeping him out of the squad but he's not the second coming no matter what Dunphy says.

As much as I'd love him back, the onus is on Stephen Ireland to make the running.

"Trapattoni is too negative". Boo f**king hoo. What were we expecting, Ossie Ardiles? For crying out loud. Anyone read Maldini's interview with Paddy Agnew in the Times yesterday? And how he spoke about the difficulty of putting a solid defence together? Trap has managed that already.

"Trap is a dictator". F**k me, this time 18 months ago I was reading about how a strong character was needed to knock alledged prima donnas into place.

"Trap is lucky". That oft repeated Gary Player saying comes to mind.

Trap is doing a very good job with limited resources. The fact that people are on here crying and whinging about him shows what an ignorant nation we are.

[mypost]

In Trap's defence:

1-1 last night was not disastrous for us,it is actually a good result and one I would have taken at the beginning of the qualification campaign. There has however been an unbelievable sense of despondency around after the match. I believe the reason for this is not neccessarily rational, rather it is the result of watching 94 minutes of the utterly joyless football which is Trap's trademark. I can remember watching "good" results with Stuttgart,including a 0-0 draw with Bayern, but feeling somehow empty after the match. Nobody really wants to watch this type of football. Kerr was hounded out because of it, and it was only tolerated in Charlton's time because of the relative success enjoyed.

IBesides, what exact alternative did people have in mind?

Results pay the bills, and several times while defending last night, I thought, "Remember the prize on offer". I'll agree with people that we are negative, but that's the way we have to be. It's called taking your medicine. If we play all out attack against these sides as the last coach did, we'll get hockeyed. If we try to outpass the opposition, we'll get hockeyed.

Kevin Kilbane, John O'Shea, Kevin Doyle, Aiden McGeady are not world-class players. Andy Reid barely gets in the Sunderland team, the overhyped midfielder from Cork is a liar and a mental case, who has walked out on the last 3 Irish managers. Yet people want that yoke in our team.

We have to play this way, it has got us unbeaten to this stage, it's not perfect, but you don't go from scrambling wins in the last minute in San Marino to being Brazil overnight. It's getting us results, so as long as it does, it'll have my support.

[Stuttgart88]

I think we are now a well organised sh1t football team. We are definitely better organised than under Staunton.

It really galled me thought that yet again (and not just under trap) we totally failed to engage a team in a football match. If you have the moral courage to take on teams that you think you're better than you'll usually win. That's how Mick's teams always often played, even without Keano.

I agree with the suggestions that the 24 selected aren't our best.

Whatever about S. Reid and S. Ireland (neither being Trap's fault) I think Carsley, A. Reid, Morrisson, St. Ledger and Owen Garvan are as good as anyone in that squad if not better.

I like that he has tried Gibson but with limited success. I think he was right to pick Kelly against Georgia but he played badly so he was right to go with McShane and he played badly! Given that both have been so bad I just can't wait to see Foley play for us.

I sincerely hope that Trap recognises which of last night's players weren't up to scratch and he does something to rectify it.

We have hounded out our last 3 managers and are now on the case of the 4th. I'm avoiding the temptation to say enough is enough as I'm still hopeful we'll see something different and better emerge. Not based on any great evidence mind you.

[SkStu]

first off i agree we dont necessarily have the players to win a group but there are three or four things about Trap that get to me. These suggest that he is not the messiah certain people are making him out to be.

1. Style: Our style has seen us revert back to the Charlton era. One step forward, four steps back. And we are not even nearly as good at it. We are horrible to watch. I think this stems from Trappatoni not valuing our players in any way.

2. Subs/Squad selection: Substitutions can change a game. You can retain your system even if you make a substitution. Why not stick Folan on for the last 20 minutes to win some of those long balls we are playing? Otherwise what the hell is he doing on the bench/in the squad? If you dont think that our squad players are worth introducing to change a game, where is the harm in inviting other options to replace them in the squad and see what they can offer.

3. Team Selection: Why does McShane continue to feature. This leper can barely kick the ball. Why is he in the squad? Next why is he in the team? Is he punishing Kelly for a sub par performance against the Georgians, after he had just returned from injury? Will hardly do alot for Kelly's confidence or team morale in general.

4. Tactics. Do you pick players to fit a system or do you pick a system to fit your players? With no "comfortable on the ball" midfielders or full backs we are trying to fit sub standard players into a system they cannot play effectively - i think this is too rigid. Im not sure what the answer is but, as ainsie said, im not being paid millions to figure this out.

The general consensus here before the game was that we would comfortably beat Bulgaria at home by 2 goals. People were pointing out how terrible that Bulgarian squad was, never heard of the players, aging defenders, no Berbatov and so on. We didnt do that, we were lucky to draw actually. I knew that no matter how bad those players were alleged to be that we would be lucky to draw the game (i won a good few quid on the draw by the way). Our system invites other teams into our half and to dominate possession. That is not the Irish way.

Im not interested in arguing this any more as it seems that people are just happy to be playing this way as long as it gets us to SA. Im not happy with this as 1) i cant see us qualifying anyway, 2) we will do terribly if we get there, 3) where do we go after this? we have brought nobody through - not one player. We have some decent players and good prospects at Championship level who will have to learn the international game and squad set-up and integrate into the set-up from scratch. It just p*sses me off.

[Stuttgart88]

My head agrees with Stu but I'm fighting the temptation to blame everything on the manager.

[ainsie]

This thread is comical. Should Andy Reid be in the squad? Probably. Is he the answer to our problems? No. Reid is a mediocre player in reality. Couldn't hack it at Tottenham, is hardly tearing up the trees at Sunderland. Good passer of a ball but isn't a winger by any stretch of the imagination and isn't a workhorse central midfielder. Obviously something has gone on with Reid that is keeping him out of the squad but he's not the second coming no matter what Dunphy says.

As much as I'd love him back, the onus is on Stephen Ireland to make the running.

"Trapattoni is too negative". Boo f**king hoo. What were we expecting, Ossie Ardiles? For crying out loud. Anyone read Maldini's interview with Paddy Agnew in the Times yesterday? And how he spoke about the difficulty of putting a solid defence together? Trap has managed that already.

"Trap is a dictator". F**k me, this time 18 months ago I was reading about how a strong character was needed to knock alledged prima donnas into place.

"Trap is lucky". That oft repeated Gary Player saying comes to mind.

Trap is doing a very good job with limited resources. The fact that people are on here crying and whinging about him shows what an ignorant nation we are.

What an ignorant preaching post well I suppose your from this nation!!
The thread was never about Andy fecking Reid. It was about the FACT that our best 24 are not there on game night. Bruce , Folan , Miller, Stokes , Mcshane, Whelan. The post was about the fact that this manager is too old and stubblrn to admit that something is not working and do something about it.

Making your own luck, IMO the other teams were unlucky , especially Georgia.

The post was about the fact that the man does not seem to be able to play a different system when it is needed. Its no harm being negative and building a good defensive unit. Its no harm having ONE defensive mid feilder but lets try and pair it with someone with flair.

Maybe the fact that we are whinging is the fact that we're sick of being second best (actually we have dropped to third best) and not ignorant because we have a different opinion to yourself.

If we loose and I hope we dont on Wednesday , theres a good chance that Bulgaria will win against Cyprus. Then its 4 points behind with a game in hand and next game at home to us. All of a sudden alls not so rosy in the Garden. So its great that we have beaten the power house of Georgia twice , Cyprus once and a draw with Montenegro and Bulgaria at home , but the hard work is to come and if we play like we did last night I worry, bigtime.

Again I dont have any solutions but neither did Kerr or Stan.

[mypost]

It was about the FACT that our best 24 are not there on game night. Bruce , Folan , Miller, Stokes , Mcshane, Whelan.

What??

[ainsie]

What??
Sorry , I meant these are examples of who I think should not be there.

[cestlavie]

I cant stand watching Ireland at the moment, I have been giving Trap the benefit of the doubt up until now as we were still in with a good shot of qualification. Horrible football, I mean people pay good money to watch such tripe, you are supposed to be entertained, I pity poor Doyle who is a quality player who has been a shining light for league of Ireland football.
What is Bradys role, surely he has to has some influence, how can he stand over the type of football we are trying to play, he was shafted by Charlton as he probably played too much football, we had players in that generation that had to compromise their playing style in persuit of results no matter what. He should be ashamed of himself.

Seriously lads, I would be happy if I could see signs that we are building a good football team for the future but i cant see it under the present regime, we are making no progress and its not going to happen if we are forced to put up with this tripe. The worst thing that could happen this team is to somehow gain qualification because we would be a brutal addition to the world football scene and Trap and Co would feel fully vindicated, Sorry to say but its time to go Trap. Its too painful to watch.
And its no excuse to say like Fianna Fail (all the problems are caused by the world recession, coz I am not buying that!), we dont have the players, their are players but we dont pick them and we are not encouraging those players to commit to our country, I wonder why?

[jebus]

Are you for real?

I realise how poor we are to watch but can you name me a couple of world beaters that he's leaving out? Players that would excite the nation in the same way as a Brady, a Sheridan, a Roy or a Houghton?

We've got a poor squad that is severely lacking in players that can take on a defence and scare the life out of them (Duff's injuries have taken too much of a toll, Steven Reid's career is finished and McGeady is rubbish) so we're left with having an organised defence that will have to rely on Doyle's flick ons and set pieces to get goals.

We're not Spain, we never will be, in short

[SuperDave]

i stopped reading when i saw "people pay good money".....

it's a results business. 1-1 at home to bulgaria isn't a bad result..... remember how happy we were when we drew 1-1 at home to the second seeds last time around? 1 bad result and suddenly bandwagon jumpers like the OP are on the team's back.

you were probably booing at the final whistle last night and you and your feckless ilk demonstrate everything that is wrong with the the Irish support at present. I wonder, have you ever been to an away game? Did you even go to games at Lansdowne? Your attitude disgusts me.

[irishultra]

First of, if you are a 'real' supporter you are there to watch the team win by whatever means possible to gain qualification for the next tournament, its not about being 'entertained for your money'

However I disagree with Jebus in that we don't have the players to play 'good football' I remember reading a Gabrielle Marcotti blog and he mentioned how Calgiari's manager massimiliano allegri allowed his team to go out and play and express themselves and made players with seemingly limited ability look like Pirlo.

Trapattoni has imposed this negativity on the players. I believe that with a formation similar to Bilic's Croatia Ireland could play some great football, particulary since we have two very good wingers. You don't need the best players to simply pass the ball and move and play in a positive manner butunder Trap we simply seem to lack this ability. Look at our 2002 team, we played some really good football and were nominated as the 'most entertaining team' of the tournament with players who appeared to be of a 'limited ability'

We do have the players, Keith Fahey is an excellent passer of the ball and plays in a free way. He like S. Ireland completely believes in his ability to get on the ball and do things. I wanted him in when he was playing for Pat's even more than I want him in now. Fahey imo would revel in International football where the pace is quite slow which would suit his game. He would also link up the midfield with attack, and is a better option than andy reid as he is far more mobile and agile. And please don't give me 'what has he proved' nonsense. Bilic played Luka Modric didn't he while he was playing in a '****e league'

[cestlavie]

The reason why Steven Reid is injured is purely because the stubburn whore that is Trap would not make changes in Montenegro and ran Reid into the ground, he was just back playing and he overstrectched him. That game was for the winning if we had off replaced Hunt with Reid and put on somebody like Murphy/Long. At least andy Reids delivery would have giving us a chance. That game just sums them up.

[SuperDave]

Sure, we could go out and try to play expansive, free flowing attacking football, but does anyone here actually think if we had tried that last night the bulgarians wouldn't have done it better? I think if we had tried to play like that we would surely have lost. I think what last night demonstrates is that we should have no fear going to Sofia. They scored once, through an OG, and other than that rarely threatened. When they did, our keeper was up to the task. A draw in Sofia and we pretty much write Bulgaria's challenge off there and then.

[jmurphyc]

The reason why Steven Reid is injured is purely because the stubburn whore that is Trap would not make changes in Montenegro and ran Reid into the ground, he was just back playing and he overstrectched him. That game was for the winning if we had off replaced Hunt with Reid and put on somebody like Murphy/Long. At least andy Reids delivery would have giving us a chance. That game just sums them up.

So wanting to keep one of his best players on the pitch was the wrong thing to do? It's not as though Reid has a reputation for being naturally fit, is it? Perhaps Trap should be blamed for the recession too, after all the country was doing fine until he arrived.

[cestlavie]

i stopped reading when i saw "people pay good money".....

it's a results business. 1-1 at home to bulgaria isn't a bad result..... remember how happy we were when we drew 1-1 at home to the second seeds last time around? 1 bad result and suddenly bandwagon jumpers like the OP are on the team's back.

you were probably booing at the final whistle last night and you and your feckless ilk demonstrate everything that is wrong with the the Irish support at present. I wonder, have you ever been to an away game? Did you even go to games at Lansdowne? Your attitude disgusts me.

Let me clarify what I mean by good money, what a rip off to pay 80 euro to watch Ireland at home when I was able to go to Montenegro and pay 5 euro to watch a gam, 13 euro to watch Italy. You really need a reality check.

[jebus]

The reason why Steven Reid is injured is purely because the stubburn whore that is Trap would not make changes in Montenegro and ran Reid into the ground, he was just back playing and he overstrectched him. That game was for the winning if we had off replaced Hunt with Reid and put on somebody like Murphy/Long. At least andy Reids delivery would have giving us a chance. That game just sums them up.

Steven Reid had injury problems long before Trap came along, you do realise this.

As for Andy Reid, I for one don't think a Sunderland bit part player is the Second Coming that some of you seem to believe he is but I guess we'll have to agree to differ.

Either way I'm having serious doubts that you've watched more than a handful of games in your life

[jmurphyc]

Let me clarify what I mean by good money, what a rip off to pay 80 euro to watch Ireland at home when I was able to go to Montenegro and pay 5 euro to watch a gam, 13 euro to watch Italy. You really need a reality check.

Agai, how the **** is that his fault?

[elroy]

[QUOTE=cestlavie;1132673]I I mean people pay good money to watch such tripe, you are supposed to be entertained, IQUOTE]

Bet you were one of the people that booed the team last night!! Fcukin disgraceful. No one makes you pay money, stay at home if your not going to go and support the team. We are Ireland, not Brazil, our resources are very limited. Like it or not, Trap has a system that is getting results. Its isnt entertaining but its effective. If you appreciate the tactical element of football then you will enjoy it more.


"we dont have the players, their are players but we dont pick them and we are not encouraging those players to commit to our country, I wonder why? "

Like who?????? Andy Reid, ill give you that. Not a world beater but worth his place in the squad. Dont even mention SI, he doesnt want to play for us.

[jebus]

Let me clarify what I mean by good money, what a rip off to pay 80 euro to watch Ireland at home when I was able to go to Montenegro and pay 5 euro to watch a gam, 13 euro to watch Italy. You really need a reality check.

You're blaming this on Trap are you? Sure he's the one putting the price of pints up as well in the hope that we get so drunk we forget about Andy Reid :rolleyes:

[cestlavie]

So wanting to keep one of his best players on the pitch was the wrong thing to do? It's not as though Reid has a reputation for being naturally fit, is it? Perhaps Trap should be blamed for the recession too, after all the country was doing fine until he arrived.

You should really watch that game again, Reid was outstanding in the previous game but it was clear to see that he had nothing more to give on the night in that second half. You cant make excuses like that for Trap.

[SuperDave]

Let me clarify what I mean by good money, what a rip off to pay 80 euro to watch Ireland at home when I was able to go to Montenegro and pay 5 euro to watch a gam, 13 euro to watch Italy. You really need a reality check.

Bringing in a straw man argument.

I like it.

That's a totally separate one from the present debate. The tickets are priced to the level the market will bear. There were 60,000 there last night at a minimum of 50 quid each.... the money goes back to grass roots (with a chunk to the GAA of course). Probably a net figure of 1.5 or 2 million.... What is your problem? Opposed to market economics?

Anyway, that is a totally separate argument from your central point which was in relation to negative tactics. We were 18 minutes from beating Bulgaria and drew cos of an unfortunate OG. Even then, although outplayed, we arguably had the better chances. We are still second and still favourites to finish there and make the playoffs, yet we have people calling for the manager's head? There really is no pleasing some people, and to draw a tenuous link, it is that sort of now, now, now approach, demanding instant success that has lead us to a short term approach that has ****ed up the economy. And as to anyone saying that is what Trap is doing, I think it's clear that by playing the likes of Gibson, Whelan, Andrews (admittedly a little older) and McShane rather than older equivalents (Carsley etc) Trap is looking towards a sustainable future as well as building a team that can compete.

When you've won titles in five countries, come back to me. (maybe not five, but hey, when you've won as much as Trap has, you can forgive him for losing count!)

[SuperDave]

You should really watch that game again, Reid was outstanding in the previous game but it was clear to see that he had nothing more to give on the night in that second half. You cant make excuses like that for Trap.

what was the bench that night? Here's a clue:

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/matches/round=250471/match=300040886/index.html

Who would you have brought on to change the game? Liam Miller? 19 caps, 1 goal? Andy Reid was not a change you'd have made for Steven Reid..... and neither of those players have ever scored away from home.

[The Fly]

Can the threads 'One Trick Trap,''Quality players in the international wilderness' and this one be merged into one thread? They are all pertaining to much the same thing.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not sure where I stand on all this. I think I came away from last night's game just less disappointed with the result/performance than I was in the crass realisation that players like McShane are just so utterly lacking the basic skills to fulfill standard roles that no bloody manager would do any better. But would Foley do better and if yes, then it's the manager's job to make judgment.

My own instinct would be to pick the balanced team I posted on the Bulgaria match thread this evening and trust that over a campaign that trusting decent players to play well will be good enough to get a play off. But that's in the face of the stark reality that that's not a million miles away from what Stan did and we fell well short of what was required. The fact is that we've been woefully uninspiring but are still probably favourites to get a play off place. Bulgaria will drop plenty more points.

[cestlavie]

what was the bench that night? Here's a clue:

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/matches/round=250471/match=300040886/index.html

Who would you have brought on to change the game? Liam Miller? 19 caps, 1 goal? Andy Reid was not a change you'd have made for Steven Reid..... and neither of those players have ever scored away from home.

Have a look at my post under Stepen Ireland thread, thats a team I think could be the way forward if you really do want to build a teqam for the future. Let me know what you think, Offcourse I would be hopeful that other players will come to the fore in the next year or two.

[KR's Post]

I'd put andy reid in for an hour, see how he goes, create a bit of magic and hopefully a goal and withdraw him for Whelan or Andrews!

At the moment we are a team that are unbeaten in our qualifying group but who lack in genuine quality, mainly though because Trap won't let these Boys go out and play.. 2nd in the group after 5 games and 11 points is nothing to sniff at. Remember Bulgaria dropped points last night to. Realistically we were always fighting it out for the Playoff spot and we are in prime postion to get that. I can't see Bulgaria winning in Italy, no way, and ourselves either. So at the moment i feel we are in the position we could've hoped for at this stage. I'd rather be in our position than Bulgarias.

But Trap................. Please let the Boys go out and play, stop restricting their talents!

[Jicked]

Cestlavie, you are the type of person who does not deserve to support Ireland.

[jebus]

This is your team from that thread

Keeper: Given (agreed, so does Trap)
RB Foley or O'Brien (any better than McShane? Probably not)
CB Dunne O'Shea (agreed, and it's Trap who has made this partnership)
LB O Dea (any better than Kilbane? Maybe, maybe not)
CM S Reid S Ireland (one may never play again, the other doesn't want to play, so you're living in fantasy world here)
LM Duff (Best of what we have I guess, Trap agrees)
RM Mc Geady or A Reid (pick one. Either way McGeady isn't good enough, neither is Reid)
ST Doyle Keano (Traps choice too)

So the ringing changes that you would make to Traps team are Foley or O'Brien in for McShane, untested O'Dea in for Kilbane, and a central partnership that will never happen.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2003/jokerclapbq7.gif

[SuperDave]

Have a look at my post under Stepen Ireland thread, thats a team I think could be the way forward if you really do want to build a teqam for the future. Let me know what you think, Offcourse I would be hopeful that other players will come to the fore in the next year or two.

that's not what i asked. I asked.... who would you have brought on that night? Clue: have a look at the bench..... Was there anyone there who had ever scored away from home?

[ainsie]

I dont think he should go yet as he is potentially as good as you'll get. What I would like to see as I said elsewhere is he would swallow his pride and admit he just does not have the players to play his style. 6 defenders and 4 attackers the good old 6-4- formation.Also show us he is a good enough coach to change games in a tactical way.
You can only put your finger in the dyke for so long , eventually the water will come flowing in and that what it looks like at the moment , lots of leaks with sticking plasters on them.

I agree that Andy Reid is not the answer but he might be part of the answer. Carsley is not the answer but he does what he does better than Whelan.
I know Delap is not the answer for sure but he would be an option of the bench in the last 20 minutes for a change of tactic , better than the serial bench warmer miller.

Young Long is not the answer but surely his pace running at a tired defender might be an option late in a game instead of sticking with hunt loosing every second ball.

We all know we have just got the best of players at the moment but I think we have better players than Bulgaria. We just made them look better last night.

There had to be some way we could have changed it around last night but stubbornness prevented that.

Do we have a friendly before Bulgaria , I think so. Would be a good time to try a plan B even for a half but will he ? No,

I dont think he should go but maybe he should start earning his money.

[cestlavie]

I didnt pick the bench, On the night from the bench chosen, I would have had to put McGeady on the left after Hunt was taken off and A Reid in the middle for S Reid.

[The Fly]

This thread is an embarrassment to this website!

(Can admin please merge it with the 'One trick Trap' thread' - it's better to concentrate any criticism in one thread, otherwise there is constant overlapping)

[NeilMcD]

The reason why Steven Reid is injured is purely because the stubburn whore that is Trap would not make changes in Montenegro and ran Reid into the ground, he was just back playing and he overstrectched him. That game was for the winning if we had off replaced Hunt with Reid and put on somebody like Murphy/Long. At least andy Reids delivery would have giving us a chance. That game just sums them up.

You really know nothin about his injury do you.

Stephen Reid did a cruciate knee injury and had swelling of the knee before the ireland games and after. He was going to have constant swelling of the knee after every game and this would have not only put his career in jepeordy but also his health into the future. He needed another operation. Him playing and extra 15 or 20 mins in Montenegro did not do the damage.

[SuperDave]

I dont think he should go yet as he is potentially as good as you'll get. What I would like to see as I said elsewhere is he would swallow his pride and admit he just does not have the players to play his style. 6 defenders and 4 attackers the good old 6-4- formation.Also show us he is a good enough coach to change games in a tactical way.
You can only put your finger in the dyke for so long , eventually the water will come flowing in and that what it looks like at the moment , lots of leaks with sticking plasters on them.

I agree that Andy Reid is not the answer but he might be part of the answer. Carsley is not the answer but he does what he does better than Whelan.
I know Delap is not the answer for sure but he would be an option of the bench in the last 20 minutes for a change of tactic , better than the serial bench warmer miller.

Young Long is not the answer but surely his pace running at a tired defender might be an option late in a game instead of sticking with hunt loosing every second ball.

We all know we have just got the best of players at the moment but I think we have better players than Bulgaria. We just made them look better last night.

There had to be some way we could have changed it around last night but stubbornness prevented that.

Do we have a friendly before Bulgaria , I think so. Would be a good time to try a plan B even for a half but will he ? No,

I dont think he should go but maybe he should start earning his money.

But Trap is being criticised for a short term approach and not building for the future (I appreciate you may not have made this point, but it has been made). Whelan looked better last night than in any of his previous games (although again I appreciate that isn't saying much), and is 10 years younger! Carsley is 35, and may not even be playing professionally by the time of the World Cup in 2010!

There is way too much negativity going about here when we are in a strong position, looking pretty solid defensively (which is an improvement on our last three managers) and strong favourites to make a play off place.

I Trust in Trap!

[cestlavie]

Cestlavie, you are the type of person who does not deserve to support Ireland.

And you are the type of a person who attacks the poster rather than offering any kind of constructive point of view. Just have a look back at your last 10 posts. Its healthy to have a debate, who do you think you are to say who can and cant support Ireland?
I also see a point from somebody else mind you so you are not alone in that world of yours, re: "Have Ireland really been any better to watch at any point in the last 7 years?"
Have we ever really played good football since the late 1980's? Recent games remind me off that spectacle that was the Egyptian game!

[Jicked]

I couldn't be arsed replying to someone who seems like they are 10 years old, blames Trapattoni for Steven Reid's 3 seasons of injury hell, and wants a complete change of policy and system, which consists of bringing in Kevin Foley of Wolves for Paul McShane of Sunderland. It's not good for my blood pressure.

[cestlavie]

My point exactly Jicked, you have nothing to offer on this website but insults and from the last post you appear to be having trouble reading, bed time for you! Mammy must be calling!

[The Fly]

My point exactly Jicked, you have nothing to offer on this website but insults and from the last post you appear to be having trouble reading, bed time for you! Mammy must be calling!

This coming from a poster who started a thread entitled; "On your bike Trap and Co."
Frankly, I am stunned that this thread has popped up - a definate low point for this website.

[cestlavie]

Is there something wrong on this website that if you start a debate you get lambasted for making a point, Wouldnt it be great if we were all singing of the same hymn sheet. I dont think I am alone with this point of view. I would love to be proven wrong seriously I would. Get back to debating my initial point.
Nobody has even questioned Liam Brady's current influence or contribution to the team???? In his day, If his football ability was being stiffled by a manager or system how would he have reacted?
I have no bother with Trap being in charge for the full campaign cant see him being able to continue to manage beyond that point anyway but I am also looking to the future, I want a team built that will be truely competitive so that we can realistically not just qualify for the next European championship but also give it a real go.

[SkStu]

I dont think he should go yet as he is potentially as good as you'll get. What I would like to see as I said elsewhere is he would swallow his pride and admit he just does not have the players to play his style. 6 defenders and 4 attackers the good old 6-4- formation.Also show us he is a good enough coach to change games in a tactical way.
You can only put your finger in the dyke for so long , eventually the water will come flowing in and that what it looks like at the moment , lots of leaks with sticking plasters on them.

I agree that Andy Reid is not the answer but he might be part of the answer. Carsley is not the answer but he does what he does better than Whelan.
I know Delap is not the answer for sure but he would be an option of the bench in the last 20 minutes for a change of tactic , better than the serial bench warmer miller.

Young Long is not the answer but surely his pace running at a tired defender might be an option late in a game instead of sticking with hunt loosing every second ball.

We all know we have just got the best of players at the moment but I think we have better players than Bulgaria. We just made them look better last night.

There had to be some way we could have changed it around last night but stubbornness prevented that.

Do we have a friendly before Bulgaria , I think so. Would be a good time to try a plan B even for a half but will he ? No,

I dont think he should go but maybe he should start earning his money.

i agree with everyhting bolded. I dont think there is any good to getting rid of him as there is little else out there at the moment.

To all the people defending Trap, i want to ask one question.

Why is he unquestionable? Why are his actions infallible?

Healthy debate and constructive criticism of any managers tactics/selection is a good thing.

edit: i suppose thats technically 2 questions...

[SkStu]

another question for the defenders of Trap.

Will his success be defined as: 2nd place, is it a play off berth, or is it qualification for the World Cup?

what if we dont finish in the play off berths? Is it simply unlucky or do we then begin to question why he didnt try and finish off Bulgaria after such a super start? We should have put them to the sword... we have to go to Cyprus, Bulgaria and Italy and Italy have yet to visit us... i dont know about anyone else but we need to win at least 2 of those games to be fairly sure of a play off berth... i dont see it. :o

[zenokelly]

I cant stand watching Ireland at the moment, I have been giving Trap the benefit of the doubt up until now as we were still in with a good shot of qualification. Horrible football, I mean people pay good money to watch such tripe, you are supposed to be entertained, I pity poor Doyle who is a quality player who has been a shining light for league of Ireland football.



So what, we're not in with a good chance of qualification now? Take a look at the table please.

And whats the point of playing wild,expansive football with players who aren't talented enough to play that way. I want to be in SA next year and if that means we score 2 goals in the next five matches I'd bite your hand off.

As for the "good" money, that's your decision, maybe you should keep ur "good" money and watch it on the box. As Dunphy would say "if you want to be entertained go to the cinema". I go to support the lads not heckle about whether they perform for my entertainment in the stands.

[kingdom hoop]

Jeez, harsh thread. Completely over the top. Expecting him to hop on a bike is a bit much at his age. You could at least call a taxi for the man!

[Conormack]

were making due with what we had... to be honest we only deserved a draw against bulgaria.. all for traps but sometimes his tatics actually have me wondering.. if that was away to bulgaria id understand getting a goal and trying to hold out but we didnt even have a right proper go. yes wed chances but we really needed to just go at them. trap and co to go id say no but he should really be listening to whats around him and adjust tactics more... andy keogh brought on in the 89th min. whats use in that????

[The Fly]

Is there something wrong on this website that if you start a debate you get lambasted for making a point, Wouldnt it be great if we were all singing of the same hymn sheet. I dont think I am alone with this point of view. I would love to be proven wrong seriously I would. Get back to debating my initial point.
Nobody has even questioned Liam Brady's current influence or contribution to the team???? In his day, If his football ability was being stiffled by a manager or system how would he have reacted?

Starting a thread such as this, is reflective of a certain ignorance of the potential and merits of this Irish side. There is nothing wrong with criticism, any side's management team should be open to critique - it keeps them on their toes. This thread is not that.

This Irish side is achieving results in the face of having a limited squad. Currently, this side has 'no central midfield.' When I see a midfield comprising Whelan, Andrews and Hunt, I shudder. These three players are journeymen and are not of sufficient ability to prosper at international level. They even fall short of a certain level of competency. How some people expect an Irish team to play good football and express themelves when it's midfield is comprised of these players is beyond me. Some posters have written that Trapattoni is stifling their talents and that they should be allowed to express themselves, following on from this I repeat the question - what 'talent' do you wish to be expressed? These players do not have the positional sense or game intelligence to play in this fashion. Trap is not stupid. If he allowed this, we would be left exposed in defence and therefore left open to conceding. Do you want us to lose?
Of the current crop of central midfielders, Darron Gibson is the most talented. He is highly rated by many respected foorball observers but is he ready for a starting berth?
In regards to Andy Reid, I am critical of Trapattoni for not having him in the squad. On the basis of footballing ability, he should be in the it. It is clear however that Trap sees him as winger and not a central midfielder and in this case he wouldn't get on ahead of either McGeady or Duff but he is nonetheless a good option to have on the bench. He is definitely not however, the answer to all our prayers, as some posters would like to portray him.

Trapattoni's game plan relies heavily on McGeady and Duff. That this is so obvious - is a major flaw. An opposition manager of any notable esteem will know that to neuter Ireland, one needs to nullify the threat from the flanks. In fairness to Trapattoni, it is very hard to disguise this when our current midfield is so inadequate. Not only that but we had Paul McShane and Kilbane playing at fullback last night. Paul McShane is truly awful, no need for any further elaboration. Kilbane, despite having been a great servant to Irish football, has aged and his effect is almost devoid of any potency despite still bringing some measure of reliability. In analysing the wingers themselves, McGeady is our most naturally talented player. He is frustrating at times, but when utilised correctly we will see his true worth - which will be when he is used as a number 10, which Trap alluded to earlier in the campaign. Hunt, despite bringing much passion and endeavour, is another painfully limited player. I still can't believe some posters thought he was better than Duff or that Duff's absence wouldn't be felt much because Hunt was a more than adequate replacement.

Keane and Doyle do not really function as a partnership. Doyle is a player I have come to admire greatly in an Irish shirt, though he is technically limited. Keane's potency, as we already know, relies heavily on his forward partner. In spite of a lack of chemistry between the two and more significantly a lack of service, they have performed fairly well so far. I repeat; how do people expect them to thrive when our only creative outlet from midfield last night was McGeady.

Trapattoni has brought a defensive solidity to this side which was sorely needed after the debacle that was Steve Staunton's management reign. Have people forgotten this? Dunne and O'Shea now look formidable in central defence and thankfully we now have a calmness and assurance in this area.

Overall I just think that people need to have some realism with regard to the Irish side at present. In my opinion, our present position in the table is very good considering the players at our disposal. Yes, Stephen Reid and Stephen Ireland would make a huge difference and change the complexion of the Irish team immeasurably but they are not available and that is not Trapattoni's fault.
Trapattoni & Co. on yer bike - Nahhhhh! ;)

[SilkCut]

And you are the type of a person who attacks the poster rather than offering any kind of constructive point of view. Just have a look back at your last 10 posts. Its healthy to have a debate, who do you think you are to say who can and cant support Ireland?
I also see a point from somebody else mind you so you are not alone in that world of yours, re: "Have Ireland really been any better to watch at any point in the last 7 years?"
Have we ever really played good football since the late 1980's? Recent games remind me off that spectacle that was the Egyptian game!

Cestlavie, you are absolutely correct it is healthy to have a debate. However when you start a thread titled "On your bike Trap and Co." immediately after just one bad result (even though at the start of qualifying we probably would have taken it) you should really expect to get hammered. This knee jerk reaction suggests you know very little about football. For example, it seems obvious you don't recall watching the dross served up by Jack Charlton's teams which we all loved and followed passionately because it was successful. Do you remember the game v's Egypt in 1990? Worst game of football ever played anywhere on this planet at any time in history!!! It felt like the end of the world but we still went on and made the 1/4 finals. Trap is by far and away the most experianced and qualified manager we have ever had, to be looking to sack him know is quite simply ridiculous. We are in 2nd spot in a group containing the world champions, did we ever expect to finish top?? We are in a very healthy position so relax, stop worrying about Reid and Ireland and get behind our team. That way when we qualify (Via the playoffs) you will not feel guilty about cheering them on in SA.