Gan teanga, Gan tír

[Cityace]

A chairde,
Following the accession in May, the EU shall have 20 official languages.
Gaeilge (Irish) will not be included. Now whether you like the language or
not, this is an insult to Ireland and an erosion of yet another part of our
national identity.

Let me put it to you this way, how would the French or Germans react if
their languages were not included??? How about the Brits?? This is also the
FF government, yet again, giving the fingers to 380,000 of Irelands citizens
(who for the most part are incidentally are located in the north and west of
Ireland).

Now this might seem like a trivial thing to you, but if they are willing to
and get away with ignoring a member country's official language, what elsewill Ireland be rail-roaded into? It's up to you. Is it OK for us to be
second class citizens in Europe???? Will that do us, like it did all the
generations before us??

I encourage you all to sign and forward this petition. Who know's?? The
longest journey begin with one step......

To: Dáil Éireann - Irish Parliament
Is é ár n-éileamh go ngairfear teanga oifigiúil oibre de chuid an Aontais
Eorpaigh den Ghaeilge.

Le meas,
Muid, a chuir ár n-ainm le seo.

We demand that the Irish language be declared an official working language
of the European Union.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?gaedhilg

[The Donie Forde]

Déanta agam!

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam...


Dóní

[pineapple stu]

Ní féidir liom é a siniú!:eek: :eek:

Déanfaidh mé triail eile anuraidh.

[John83]

Having the first language of at least 90% of the population ignored as our national language because of historical reasons is the real disgrace. Oh no! We won't have Irish listed as an official language of the EU. Whatever will we do? :rolleyes:

[Beavis]

Good stuff Cityace.I have nothing more than pass leaving cert Irish but I'm now taking classes to change that.
If irish was ever allowed to die out,it would be a truly terrible thing.It's our identity and despite the Brits best efforts we still hung on to it.:D ;)

[NigeSausagepump]

I think saying it constitutes an "erosion of yet another part of our national identity" is a bit wide of the mark. I would suggest that it doesn't make anyone feel any less Irish (whatever that means), including the 380,000 in the north and west who speak the language. Does it matter to them what some bureaucratic oik in Brussels decides with a stroke of a pen? Does it make them any less secure in their identity? I sincerely doubt it.

I must say I don't understand why people get so worked up about these trifling regulations the EU passes and invest them with symoblism they simply don't warrant. If the EU decided to harmonise taxes, then I'd get worked up. They've decided not to put Irish down on some arcane list of official languages? Good luck to them. It don't think it matters in the slightest.

[dahamsta]

This has been posted all over the shop. Has anyone actually verified whether it's true or not?

adam

[max power]

I'm involved with the EU through my work and Irish is not an offical language in the EU, i have a hand out on it here, the web site involved in this push is www.cnag.ie more info is available here. if anyone wants more info the council regulation is 1/1958.

if anyone wants more info pm me and i will get it to them.

and yes adam it is true, its all to do with the translation of official EU documents into official languages, all docs will have to be available in all languages after accession next year ( which will be during our presidency yet we will not have a language included )


treaties are the only documents that the EU currently publish in Irish. it is an official treaty language

[max power]

oh look above a civil servent doing some work !!!!!! shock, i'm going to take it easy for the rest of the day that was too hard on me

[wiseman]

This is not a new development. The Irish lanuage has never been recognised by Europe!!

[SÓC]

Im not sure what this is about.

Ní teanga oibriúchán oifigiúl í an Gaeilge faoi láthar. Is teanga conraigh í. Tá sé seo 25 bhliain ró-dhéanach. Rinneadh an damáiste nuair tháineamar isteach ar an Aontas. B'é rialtas Fine Gael a bhí cúis leis ag an am, ag léiriú an easpa measa atá acu ar an dteanga. Ní aon rud a chailliúint anseo. Is féidir gach uile Conradh Aontais a fháil as Gaeilge, is féidir í a labhairt sa Phairlmint agus is féidir scríobh/dáiléal cúibh i nGaeilge faoi láthar. Ní athróidh sé seo aon rud. Tá na cearta céanna againn is mar atá ag lucht na Basque, Cataluna, Breatain Beag, Breton, Gaeilge na hAlban 7rl.

Irish is not an official working at the moment. It is a Treaty language. This petition is 25 years too late. The damage was done when we joined the Union. A Fine Gael government were actually the ones who did this, thus further show their lack of respect for an Gaeilge. Nothing is being eroded here. At the moment you can get all the treaties in Irish, you can address the Parliment in Irish and you wirte/deal with them through. Irish. The leglislation is not translated to Irish and hence the laws do not apply in the Irish forms. Where as the 12 official languages are all equally part of the law of the EU. We have the same rights as other minority languages such as Basque, Welsh etc.

[max power]

it is an offical treaty language and the EU has always published treaties in Irish, the irish Goverment has the option to pubilsh EU documents itself in Irish if it so wishes.

[Éanna]

not on at all. Irish governments since independence have probably done more in 80 years to destroy the language than 800 years of colonialism ever did:rolleyes:

[SÓC]

Originally posted by max power
it is an offical treaty language and the EU has always published treaties in Irish, the irish Goverment has the option to pubilsh EU documents itself in Irish if it so wishes.

It would be a bit of a waste of time since the Irish Government translation version wouldnt have any legal force.

A woman from the Gaeltach in Kerry, Caitlín Uí Bheaglaich has done an excellent series of lectures on how FG sold us out at the time. Not sure if they are to be found online. I'll have a look

[max power]

see the web site i listed above, there is a lot of info on it

[SÓC]

Originally posted by Éanna
not on at all. Irish governments since independence have probably done more in 80 years to destroy the language than 800 years of colonialism ever did:rolleyes:

Well, yes and no.

FG and their facist predecessors really are the main culprits. Not that FF are without sin.

There were Gaeltachts to be saved if proper action had been taken by the free staters. Most of east Cork at the time was a Gaeltacht. By the time Dev came to power so much had already been lost.

FG didnt provide any form of text books in Irish. They favoured the Richie Kavanagh báta mór aproach.

FG didnt put Irish forward as forward as an EU language.

FG cut funding to most Irish departments not allowing some to fulfill their constitutional obligations.

Then a mass message gets sent out blaming FF for it all:rolleyes:

Two groups in Ireland give a flying fcuk about Gaeilge. One of them is FF, the other has a private army.

[dahamsta]

Originally posted by SÓCcfc
FG and their facist predecessors really are the main culprits.Godwin's Law is hereby invoked, thread over.

Since nobody else can be bothered their balls hunting down the source of all this, I'll post it for ye.

http://europa.eu.int/comm/scic/thescic/multilingualism_en.htm

adam

[SÓC]

Originally posted by Vetinari
Godwin's Law is hereby invoked, thread over.

Since nobody else can be bothered their balls hunting down the source of all this, I'll post it for ye.

http://europa.eu.int/comm/scic/thescic/multilingualism_en.htm

adam

Huh? Whats Godwin's Law?


*Edit*
Just found it.

anseo (http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/g/GodwinsLaw.html)

Strange rule that. Everything I've said is voided because of the merky past of a present day political party:confused:

Is it widely used on forums?

[Macy]

Thread over, but Sóc even Conor wouldn't come out with all that sh!te..... Pretty sure FF was pro-EEC in that Referendum (although stand to be corrected).....

[max power]

adam i gave people the info to do it for themselves, lazy lazy people !!!

[SÓC]

Originally posted by Macy
Thread over, but Sóc even Conor wouldn't come out with all that sh!te..... Pretty sure FF was pro-EEC in that Referendum (although stand to be corrected).....

Funny how you say thread over then try to get in a dig.

FYI Of course FF were pro EU but they were also pro Irish as an official working language.

Also (not stiring ****e, just interested) I think the invoking of Godwin's law was a bit hasty, Godwins law specifically only mentions Hitler and Nazi. Where do you draw the line if the rule is to be extended to facism, do you stop there, how about right wing?

[pete]

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to be criticising the EUs treatment of irish given our national behaviour over the years?

:rolleyes:

[dahamsta]

I was joking, ha ha. This is why over-eager patriots drive me nuts, they overstate and huff and puff and generally come off sounding like Ian Paisley-like w*nkers. For example, SÓC: Calling Fianna Fáil fascist is just... well, silly. Yes they have an abundance of the aforementioned in the party, yes the party is so corrupt it thinks of it as perfectly acceptable; yes they're ruining this country; but they are /not/ fascist, they're just right-wing* tossers. Calling them fascist puts you in the same boat as the ignorant fools in the North that insist on calling their opposition Sinn Féin/IRA. It's just pathetic.

adam

* Conor and pals, don't try and tell me FF is left-of-centre, I'll just laugh at you.

[Macy]

Originally posted by SÓCcfc
FYI Of course FF were pro EU but they were also pro Irish as an official working language.
well surely they should've be arguing against the referendum on this point if they are such strong supporters of the Irish language.... You can't push all the blame onto FG if FF were supporting the same legislation...

Fianna Fail has been in power far longer than any other Party since the state's foundation, so it is a ridiculous arguement to blame FG* for a few years at the state (at a time when FF* wouldn't even recognise the democratic will of the people).

[SÓC]

Originally posted by Macy
well surely they should've be arguing against the referendum on this point if they are such strong supporters of the Irish language.... You can't push all the blame onto FG if FF were supporting the same legislation...


That would be why i said FF are not without sin either:rolleyes:


Also Adam I think you have misread what I said. I'd say read my post again.

I called the only organised facist group (The Blue Shirts)in this history of our state facist. I never have called FF or FG facist.

[dahamsta]

Fair enough. I don't see the point in harping on about the past though. What's the point?

adam

[niamh]

Other languages, that more people speak on a daily basis, have not been included so why do we think there is a special case for Ireland??
The reality is, as mentioned above, this point was lost years ago and what the Irish government etc do to encourage the Irish languagw among Irish people is a disgrace.
It can be done...look at Welsh.

[dahamsta]

Well said niamh.

[wws]

Originally posted by Vetinari
I was joking, ha ha. This is why over-eager patriots drive me nuts, they overstate and huff and puff and generally come off sounding like Ian Paisley-like w*nkers. For example, SÓC: Calling Fianna Fáil fascist is just... well, silly. Yes they have an abundance of the aforementioned in the party, yes the party is so corrupt it thinks of it as perfectly acceptable; yes they're ruining this country; but they are /not/ fascist, they're just right-wing* tossers. Calling them fascist puts you in the same boat as the ignorant fools in the North that insist on calling their opposition Sinn Féin/IRA. It's just pathetic.

adam

* Conor and pals, don't try and tell me FF is left-of-centre, I'll just laugh at you.

Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator (Bertie?), stringent socioeconomic controls (Charlies Budget?), suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship (maybe not, just boredom), and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism (aye nationalism is there - racism? debateable).
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.


I reckon there's a case to answer there in fairness

[max power]

weel if all these people don't like how europe treat us and don't use the irish language lets give all the european money back and go back to the days of the horse and cart, cop on grow up and realise that irish is our second language and its the people who made it second.

[Macy]

Originally posted by wws
typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism (aye nationalism is there - racism? debateable).
Nothing to debate, just look at some of McDowells comments on immigration....

[dahamsta]

All democratically elected my friends. You have the electorate to blame.

adam

[max power]

well said adam, no point in compaining when the election is over

[Macy]

Still think you're allowed when you didn't actually vote for them......

[wws]

who's complaining?

[wws]

I don't really understand the point you're making here conor
all I said was there was similarities between that Irish party and elemnts of fascism, it was slightly tongue in cheek but some things are uncanny

whether they got voted in in numbers to form a coalition is irrelevant to my post

[Macy]

Originally posted by Conor74
Refresh your memory here. It's got a good review of the votes cast, numbers elected etc. etc.

http://www.rte.ie/news/election2002/site_files//national.html

I think it's called democracy...
So a facist party can't get elected to Government? There's examples of other far right parties in Government in other countries - Austria for example.

Unless what your saying is that we haven't got the right to question the Government until the next election time....

[irishstranger]

Originally posted by max power
weel if all these people don't like how europe treat us and don't use the irish language lets give all the european money back and go back to the days of the horse and cart, cop on grow up and realise that irish is our second language and its the people who made it second.


:D Dev would have loved that one("sure aren't we self sufficient in shoe laces")

[dahamsta]

Originally posted by Conor74
I mean, would it make my argument more valid if I just said that anyone who had left wing leanings is a "commie" or "red" or "anarchist"?Sadly, all too many people do.

adam

[wws]

Originally posted by Conor74
But in Ireland we should be thankful that we have been spared the excesses of both historical and recent swings to the far right.


I find this utterly hilarious. was it Ireland were internment without trial was set up with gulags in the curragh? For people who's views were suspected of being different from the ruling government?

we've a lot more in common with countries of that time (the main facsist era, than you seem to realise)

[wws]

the american administration had to sell the idea of conflict with the new communist powers in europe etc in post war europe to a people that wernt interested in more global engagement by equating them with the facist regimes they had just helped to topple

a systematic campaign was launched to hype the similarities between the two idealogies - the labeling is always irrelevant to me - its the end to which its used

In any case I used "gulag" in this example as I was watching a documentary on the curragh camps on TG4 the other day and one of the government said they et up "gulags", his word

IRA memebership wasnt the only reason they could intern and all internees wernt necessarily IRA members as far as I could see. Though to get out you had to sign a declaration saying you revoked all ties!

[wws]

anyway to sum up, fianna fail bad, ties good