The Damned United

[Denis The Red]

What he did with Nottingham Forest probably rivals anything Ferguson has done considering Ferguson has pretty much bought most of his titles.

Meow... Where did that come from? I don't remember Cloughie getting knighted. That statement is totally out of order. How can anyone consider Fergie's succuss is bought?
You say MOST, which one's didn't he buy. Clown

[Red&White Rover]

Meow... Where did that come from? I don't remember Cloughie getting knighted. That statement is totally out of order. How can anyone consider Fergie's succuss is bought?
You say MOST, which one's didn't he buy. Clown

I love Man United fans*. So deluded and ignorant of facts. And of course they're "How dare you have a different opinion to us, we're MANCHESTER UNITED. DO YOU HEAR ME?!" attitude to people who have the cheek to point out things at odds with ManYoo.

*I say "fans". I mean "customers".

[NeilMcD]

To be fair I think it was a discussion about Clough and the film and book the Damned Utd and somebody gets a catty comment about Ferguson that was out of leftfield. Then Denis the Red who obviously is a bit touchy about this reacts.

You obviously have an agenda also when you use terms like "customers" as a form of insult to Man Utd Fans.

Its funny how you have also tarred all Man Utd fans with the same bruch. Rather than just take issue with Dennis the Red you use a big huge generalisation.

Before you ask I do not support Man Utd.

[Denis The Red]

My bad lads, I think the discussion should stay with Cloughie and the Fergie/Man U issue should take place elsewhere at another time.
I just thought having a dig at Ferguson like that was a stupid statement to make and totally off the subject.
And for the record, I can banter with the rest of them about United, take it on the chin about Ronaldo, Keane etc but like I said that statement was out of place at this moment and on this thread.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I can banter with the rest of them about United, take it on the chin about Ronaldo, Keane etc but like I said that statement was out of place at this moment and on this thread.

I'm not so sure R&WRs statement was out of place. I think it's legitimate to compare and juxtapose the achievements of Clough (not a universal fan of the guy incidently) with those of for example' sake Ferguson.

All achievement and success has to be measured against the background it was realised and with account taken of the resources available and expended. In that context it's quite legitimate to compare Cloughs achievements with two relatively small clubs and including back to back European Cups -with Fergusons two CLs won nine years apart.

I'm not running Ferguson down when I say his most remarkable career achievement (and that most comparable with Cloughs) was splitting the old firm with Aberdeen.

[Red&White Rover]

To be fair I think it was a discussion about Clough and the film and book the Damned Utd and somebody gets a catty comment about Ferguson that was out of leftfield. Then Denis the Red who obviously is a bit touchy about this reacts.

You obviously have an agenda also when you use terms like "customers" as a form of insult to Man Utd Fans.

Its funny how you have also tarred all Man Utd fans with the same bruch. Rather than just take issue with Dennis the Red you use a big huge generalisation.

Before you ask I do not support Man Utd.

Well I do as. I'll be the first to admit. I do not like Man United "fans". To me they're everything I despise about football. Glory-hunting no-nothings whose arrogance and sheer ignorance at times knows no bounds.

Yes, of course they're is some Man Utd fans who are level-headed (just like they're are Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal fans who're ignorant and what not), can look at things objectively and realise that they like any team, have limitations as opposed to thinking when they lose a match that it was through some fault be it the ref's, other teams tactics, bad luck...but for the most part, these are in the minority.

And the reason I "tarred" them all, is becaus all the Man United fans I know are like this! A good friend of mine proclaimed they had the league wrapped up up back in December...Ignorance, Arrogance and just pessimism to everything that is not Man United.

And for the record, I am not a Clough fan either, but I find it madness to say that Ferguson's achievements were greater than Clough's. Not saying Ferguson is a bad manager but I realy think Clough's achievements better Ferguson's.

[DeLorean]

Well I do as. I'll be the first to admit. I do not like Man United "fans". To me they're everything I despise about football. Glory-hunting no-nothings whose arrogance and sheer ignorance at times knows no bounds.

Yes, of course they're is some Man Utd fans who are level-headed (just like they're are Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal fans who're ignorant and what not), can look at things objectively and realise that they like any team, have limitations as opposed to thinking when they lose a match that it was through some fault be it the ref's, other teams tactics, bad luck...but for the most part, these are in the minority.

And the reason I "tarred" them all, is becaus all the Man United fans I know are like this! A good friend of mine proclaimed they had the league wrapped up up back in December...Ignorance, Arrogance and just pessimism to everything that is not Man United.

And for the record, I am not a Clough fan either, but I find it madness to say that Ferguson's achievements were greater than Clough's. Not saying Ferguson is a bad manager but I realy think Clough's achievements better Ferguson's.

I really don't see the purpose in tarring fans of any team with the one brush, and find it almost impossible to believe that ALL the United fans you know fit the description you laid out above. I generally find that the fairly level headed fans are the ones with the greatest interest in soccer and I don't really care about the rubbish the others go on with.

Of course Clough had a more difficult task in leading Derby to a Lge Championship and Forest to a Lge Championship and two European Cups. However, Fergie produced similar miracles at Aberdeen winning 3 Lge Championships, 4 Scottish Cups and the Cup Winners Cup. I think these achievements alone would be comparable at least, allbeit not surpass what Clough achieved. Once you throw in his record at United he surpasses him with ease imo, money or no money.

[Denis The Red]

Ok, seeing as we're keeping Fergie in the discussion... First, you may have gathered, I am a United fan and have been long before the Fergie years but that's not why I took exception to the statement by Emmet7 I think it was. I got annoyed because he dismissed the achievements of the games greatest manager just to have a cheap shot at Man U.
Second, if we're comparing what Clough did and what Fergie did let's remember what Ferguson did in Scotland for Aberdeen as someone already mentioned and achieved success in Europe with them as well.
We also know it didn't cost a penny to build most of the squad that won the double in '96, The "you win nothing with kids" year.
And not taking away from Cloughie's achievement but didn't he break the british record for signing a player when he bought Trevor Francis in '79 and who went on to score the winning goal in the european final that year. Bought that cup???
I think Clough is more famous for his sound bites and antics than he is for his footballing achievements imo, great as they are.

[DeLorean]

I'm going to be in Cork on Friday so I should get to see the movie then. Has anybody watched it yet?

I also ordered 'Provided You Don't Kiss Me' from Amazon.