Irish Lions 2009?

[joeSoap]

So...how many do ye think we'll get....? I'll go for...(* for test place)

Kearney
Bowe*
O'Driscoll*
Geordan Murphy
O'Gara
Flannery
O'Connell-Captain*
O'Callaghan
Ferris*
Heaslip*
Wallace
Leamy

Keith Earls could be the token surprise selection...

I think the test team should be (on 6 nations form)

Lee Byrne, Bowe, BOD, Riki Flutey, Shane Williams, Steven Jones, Mike Phillips, Andrew Sheridan, Lee Mears, Euan Murray, Big Paulie, Alun Wyn Jones, Ferris, Heaslip, Martyn Williams.

Subs: Rob Kearney, Ronan O'Gara, Mike Blair, Phil Vickery, Jerry Flannery, O'Callaghan, David Wallace.

[The Fly]

The only notable absentee from the above list would be Luke Fitzgerald, I also wouldn't be surprised if John Hayes gets a call-up. Keith Earls definately won't be selected.

[DmanDmythDledge]

So...how many do ye think we'll get....? I'll go for...(* for test place)

Kearney
Bowe*
O'Driscoll*
Geordan Murphy
O'Gara
Flannery
O'Connell-Captain*
O'Callaghan
Ferris*
Heaslip*
Wallace
Leamy

Keith Earls could be the token surprise selection...

I think the test team should be (on 6 nations form)

Lee Byrne, Bowe, BOD, Riki Flutey, Shane Williams, Steven Jones, Mike Phillips, Andrew Sheridan, Lee Mears, Euan Murray, Big Paulie, Alun Wyn Jones, Ferris, Heaslip, Martyn Williams.

Subs: Rob Kearney, Ronan O'Gara, Mike Blair, Phil Vickery, Jerry Flannery, O'Callaghan, David Wallace.
That's the test XV I would pick anyway.

I don't Geordan Murphy is going to make the squad. Hayes is a shoe-in for a squad place I'd say.

[joeSoap]

I don't Geordan Murphy is going to make the squad. Hayes is a shoe-in for a squad place I'd say.
Well, they'll probably only bring 2 specialist tight head props and I reckon Euan Murray and Vickery are well ahead of Hayes. But thats only my opinion and I'd love it if the Bull got another tour before retiring.

[endabob1]

Got my tickets for the 2 games in Cape Town & the Durban test :D

Lee Byrne will be full back in the tests, he's possibly the best in the world right now and only's Kearneys exceptional form has raised doubts,Kearney will go as a utility cover Armitage or Patterson as actual full back cover, despite Armitage having a good 6N, Patterson’s kicking might give him the nod

Williams on the left but I think he will struggle in the physicality of the battle
Centres are BOD & 1 other, Shanklin is a good call although I like Flutey and I think D'Arcy will go as long as he can prove his fitness in the coming weeks, he has the magic touch that is needed against the best in the world. I think those will be the 4 centres. That said James Hook might beat D’Arcy to the punch because of versatility
The other wing is an issue Sackey will definitely go not sure about the test side but he won’t be far off, has had a good 6 Nations. Of the Irish Wings, I’d love to see Luke Fitzgerald get a chance but of the 2 I suspect it will be Bowe who gets the run with maybe Thom Evans making the last spot or it effectively being allocated for Kearney.

The half backs are an area where I think we are lightweight, Jones & O’Gara are the current pick but they both have weakness’s, I think Jones for the test side & ROG for the midweek. The scrum half slot is between Phillips & Blair, I like Blair but I think Philips muscle & Jones at 10 will give him the nod

In the forwards, Sheridan & either Gethin Jenkins or the Scottish boy Murray the Test Props although Hayes will be in the squad after his best 6N to date & Horans performance on Saturday might sneak him in as a 5th prop ahead of Jones.
Lee Mears & Jerry Flannery for Hooker
O’Connell as Captain and leader is a shoe in with O’Callaghan in the squad, not sure about the test side with his temperament but given the demolition job on the Welsh line out I think the 2 Irish boys should get starting slots, I would expect Gough & Alun-Wyn Jones to go as well.

67&8 are potentially the most important positions

Stephen Ferris or Tom Croft at 6 based on the 6N it would be Ferris
David Wallace Joe Worsley, Martyn Williams, it’s Worsley for me, he gives an extra option in the line out which will be hugely important
Jamie Heaslip is the No 8 for me although Ryan Jones will obviously be in contention & I think will get the nod due to Gatland’s involvement

So My Side
Lee Byrne
Paul Sackey
Brian O’Driscoll
Riki Flutey
Shane Williams
Stephen Jones
Mike Phillips

Sheridan
Flannery
Jenkins
O’Connell
O’Callaghan
Ferris
Worsley
Heaslip

I don't expect that to be the side though, I think there will be more Welsh in it and possibly Mears at Hooker

[pete]

Of all the Irish candidates I think Kearney has gone backwards as he did not have a great 6 Nations.

[centre mid]

Kearney started thesix nations well, he had a very good game against France. I think is was between him and Lee Byrne for the starting full back berth in the Lions team, probably 60/40 in Byrne's favour. I think your right though Pete, he has been solid but nothing more since then. I'd probably have Geordan Murphy in ahead of him.

[Macy]

Of all the Irish candidates I think Kearney has gone backwards as he did not have a great 6 Nations.
More tactics than individual performance would be my opinion.

[pete]

I think Kearney is a good player & certainly his boot helps in current rules but he did not seem to be very involved in games & his kicked was poor although kicking standard overall in the tournament not good. Don't see what the pundits see Armitage as seems poor defensively not kicking very poor.

[Youths4Ever]

Kearney will probably be in squad as utility cover for wing and fullback. Keith Earls will not travel not good enough yet. Dont see O’Callaghan being picked either better players also with greater discipline

[joeSoap]

Keith Earls will not travel not good enough yet.

I beg to differ... I reckon he's now a shoe in.

[centre mid]

I beg to differ... I reckon he's now a shoe in.

He has done very little to warrant a "shoe-in" tag, really only performed at club level. He played a couple of times in the Autumn International but Kidney didnt see fit to use him in the Grand Slam winning team, I'd bow to his judgement.

Much will depend on how the Lions back line is set out, i.e. if they will play with one full back and two wings or two full backs and one wing. I'd like to see him included as he is a talent but i cant see how he is a "shoe-in". Although I'm not a munster fan so I dont have those tinted glasses.

[Real ale Madrid]

I don't know about Earls - McGeechan may not pick anyone unless they have adequate international experience. Personally i'd pick him, he is defintly good enough for the midweek side.

O'Callaghan discipline is a bit of myth - i can only remember him conceeding 1 pen in the six nations - which was a joke decision against Wales. Alan Wyn Jones was taken to the cleaners against Munster so i think like the last tour O'Callaghan can play his way onto the test team.

Kearney has had an average few weeks. He was shocking defensively against Munster for Earls' try, but i reckon on his day he is the complete footballer. Byrne has been very consistant on the big stage so i reckon he'l get the nod at full back. Murphy might travel as 3rd string but i doubt it. Defensively too frail for me.

And i don't know how anyone would pick Joe Worsley ahead of David Wallace or Martyn Williams. Worsley prob won't even travel. I'll be very disapointed if Wallace and Heaslip are both not in the team. Had a superb six nations both men.

Opinions will always be divided on the make up of the team - but i hope the Lions go out there this year to play a bit of rugby, it has become all so serious in recent years, they should go out to enjoy themselves a little bit. At the end of the day does it really matter if they win or lose. Stuipid question really, but id rather them lose high scoring entertaining games rather than the way the last 2 series have gone.

[joeSoap]

He has done very little to warrant a "shoe-in" tag, really only performed at club level. He played a couple of times in the Autumn International but Kidney didnt see fit to use him in the Grand Slam winning team, I'd bow to his judgement.

Much will depend on how the Lions back line is set out, i.e. if they will play with one full back and two wings or two full backs and one wing. I'd like to see him included as he is a talent but i cant see how he is a "shoe-in". Although I'm not a munster fan so I dont have those tinted glasses.

The 'club level' you talk about is crap. Most Heineken Cup games are played by all capped teams and are played at international pace. Kidney went on record to say he was very much in his plans but for injury in the first two games, and also Paddy Wallace provided the necessary cover at out-half.

I believe his style of play is very suited to a McGeechan side, and his current form is very impressive. I'd say he is a shoe-in...

Now, where did I put my rose tinted glasses??:rolleyes:

[centre mid]

The 'club level' you talk about is crap.

How is it crap - its a statement of fact, not opinion. I think he is an excellent prospect, but I dont agree that he is a shoe-in.

[jbyrne]

being selfish about it the less of our players that go the better. how many times have we lost important players through injury sustained on a lions tour? also with such a long season id say our grand slam players would be better off with a break to freshen them up for next season

[shakermaker1982]

if he brings Cipriani and the rest of the Wasps squad then there could be trouble before they even get on the plane. The boks would eat him alive.

From an Irish perspective I'd hope to see POC, Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip, Bowe and BOD all starting in the first test. Flannery also has an excellent shot. I think they'll start with Jones and Phillips at 9/10 but I have my doubts about the partnership. Is Peel worth bringing along? I cannot see too many English players making the first 15 bar maybe Vickery and Flutey.

I'd bring Earls along. Something different and versatile.

[pete]

I'd bring Earls along. Something different and versatile.

I agree. On form he should be picked as he just gets better in the centre position. The only reason he would not get picked for the squad is lack of International experience.

Undecided if Lions tour would be good or bad for Earls long term development.

ST yesterday was suggesting O'Connell will be captain. I think the only way O'Driscoll won't be captain is if his position in team is not guaranteed.

[tetsujin1979]

He has done very little to warrant a "shoe-in" tag, really only performed at club level. He played a couple of times in the Autumn International but Kidney didnt see fit to use him in the Grand Slam winning team, I'd bow to his judgement.
To be fair, where else is he going to perform, other than at club level? He scored the opening try against Canada at Thomond (cleaning out a few bookies in Ballincurra in the process) and scored two tries in the quarter final of the Heineken Cup, in front of the Lions selectors.
He'll probably miss out on the Lions, but I wouldn't be too surprised if he is in the squad for South Africa

[The Fly]

Paul O'Connell has been named as captain of the Lions.

The squad as a whole is named tomorrow at 1.30pm.

[shakermaker1982]

I'x expecting a couple of surprises after Edward's column in the Guardian last week. Looking forward to the announcement and the banter that follows.

[Rashers Baptisa]

I hope Jerry 'the legend' Flannery gets a call up.

[Schumi]

14 Irish in the squad: Kearney, Fitzgerald, Bowe, O'Driscoll, Earls, O'Gara, O'Leary, Heaslip, Wallace, Ferris, Quinlan, O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Flannery.

Only 2 Scots. Who saw Quinlan getting in?

[drummerboy]

Quinlan was a pleasant surprise. No Darcy or Hayes.

[Schumi]

Full squad
Backs:
Lee Byrne (Wales)
Rob Kearney (Ireland)
Shane Williams (Wales)
Leigh Halfpenny (Wales)
Ugo Monye (England)
Luke Fitzgerald (Ireland)
Tommy Bowe (Ireland)
Tom Shanklin (Wales)
Jamie Roberts (Wales)
Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland)
Keith Earls (Ireland)
Riki Flutey (England)
Ronan O'Gara (Ireland)
Stephen Jones (Wales)
Mike Phillips (Wales)
Harry Ellis (England)
Tomas O'Leary (Ireland)

Forwards:
Jamie Heaslip (Ireland)
Andy Powell (Wales)
David Wallace (Ireland)
Stephen Ferris (Ireland)
Alan Quinlan (Ireland)
Joe Worsley (England)
Martyn Williams (Wales)
Alun Wyn Jones (Wales)
Paul O'Connell (Ireland) (captain)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Ireland)
Simon Shaw (England)
Nathan Hines (Scotland)
Gethin Jenkins (Wales)
Adam Jones (Wales)
Andrew Sheridan (England)
Phil Vickery (England)
Euan Murray (Scotland)
Jerry Flannery (Ireland)
Lee Mears (England)
Matthew Rees (Wales)

[pete]

O'Leary is also a surprise although I did have a feeling he might sneak in.

I suppose Earls will be the big news. Has he got the least number of caps in the squad?

Seems to be a lot of flexibility in the backs i.e. can play numerous positions.

[Dodge]

Well most backs are like that.

Bit of a surprise only selected 2 out halves (and only 2 kickers)

[Wangball]

Anyone else surprised that Delon Armitage isn't in there? He could cover a lot of the back positions and is a back up goal kicking option too

[thesilverfox]

Anyone else surprised that Delon Armitage isn't in there? He could cover a lot of the back positions and is a back up goal kicking option too

very surprised. leigh halfpenny is being brought as third kicker. very pleased with the squad apart from riki fluety

[DmanDmythDledge]

Anyone else surprised that Delon Armitage isn't in there? He could cover a lot of the back positions and is a back up goal kicking option too
I'm surprised he didn't make the squad too- he had a great six nations.

[thesilverfox]

saw this on the lions website. it has all the player up in the jerseys already.
http://lionsrugby.com/thetour/7120.php
originally i thought it might jave just been a photo shop job of putting the heads on the jerseys but they look very convincing. a few (simon shaw and alan quinlan in particular) looked photoshopped but does anybody think that these might have been taken before today. we certainly knew of a few bankers for the last few weeks

[endabob1]

very surprised. leigh halfpenny is being brought as third kicker. very pleased with the squad apart from riki fluety

Why not Flutey? I think he may well make the test squad, good kicker, good line breaker, defensively shakey I'll grant you but with BOD alongised I think that's a good blend of brains & brawn (not that BOD is all Brawn but he is certainly more backrow forward than centre sometimes)

[Rashers Baptisa]

I was delighted that the legend that is Gerry Flannery made the squad.

Flanners will do us proud throwing those balls in South Africa around!

[thesilverfox]

Why not Flutey? I think he may well make the test squad, good kicker, good line breaker, defensively shakey I'll grant you but with BOD alongised I think that's a good blend of brains & brawn (not that BOD is all Brawn but he is certainly more backrow forward than centre sometimes)

He's a good player but I dont think he should have been picked. He is a former underage captain of the all-blacks. played for wellington against the lions in 2005. when he realised he wasnt good enough to be a regular in the all blacks he went to england. stayed the 3 years to get residency. got into the england squad and now in the summer he is heading to a new club in france.

very good player but not exactly what i would call lions material.

[endabob1]

So more a question of qualification than quality?

I like him (as much as it's possible to like a Kiwi born Englishman) I certainly would have him in my squad & probably the test side, time will tell if his defensive game is up to the job, The Boks are not weak in the centre

[Pious37]

I was delighted that the legend that is Gerry Flannery made the squad.

Flanners will do us proud throwing those balls in South Africa around!

That a$$. Hell be around Limerick wearing his hoody tonight celebrating. At least we wont have to look at his ponce head cos his hood will be covering it!!!

[Rashers Baptisa]

I was also thrilled to see the inclusion of young Keith Earls. He will definately bring something dynamic to the team.

I thought Rory Best would get a shout. I suppose Flanners just edged him.

[Hibernian]

Quinlan does not deserve place simple as that.

unlucky hayes and armitage

[OneRedArmy]

I think its a good squad, picked on form rather than reputation, with less political picks than any Lions side since 1997 (shows McGeechan's huge integrity).

The Earls selection is a brave one but a good one. McGeechan put Bentley and Jeremy Davidson in the test team in 97 when neither were household names and they were candidates for player of the tour.

The idea that Hayes may get picked for his lineout ability was somewhat ridiculous. You can quote all you like about how lineouts outnumber scrums in the modern game, but a troubled scrum gives away penalties and tries, not just possession. Hayes is not a world class scrummager (understandable since he was a 2nd row until he was in his early 20s). Add in the hard ground in South Africa and he becomes a liability.

Sheridan is taller and heavier, so should be an equally good lifter, plus he's a better scrummager.

As for Quinlan, I could see him on the bench for the Test Team. Has all the qualities required, including that little edge of nastiness.

[Real ale Madrid]

saw this on the lions website. it has all the player up in the jerseys already.
http://lionsrugby.com/thetour/7120.php
originally i thought it might jave just been a photo shop job of putting the heads on the jerseys but they look very convincing. a few (simon shaw and alan quinlan in particular) looked photoshopped but does anybody think that these might have been taken before today. we certainly knew of a few bankers for the last few weeks

As far as i know each player in each six nations squad got a photo done and got measurements etc the 2nd or 3rd weekend of the six nations, might explain why Shaw and Quinlan might look photoshoped as they may have not even been in squads the week it was done.

[Real ale Madrid]

I think its a good squad, picked on form rather than reputation, with less political picks than any Lions side since 1997 (shows McGeechan's huge integrity).

The Earls selection is a brave one but a good one. McGeechan put Bentley and Jeremy Davidson in the test team in 97 when neither were household names and they were candidates for player of the tour.

The idea that Hayes may get picked for his lineout ability was somewhat ridiculous. You can quote all you like about how lineouts outnumber scrums in the modern game, but a troubled scrum gives away penalties and tries, not just possession. Hayes is not a world class scrummager (understandable since he was a 2nd row until he was in his early 20s). Add in the hard ground in South Africa and he becomes a liability.

Sheridan is taller and heavier, so should be an equally good lifter, plus he's a better scrummager.

As for Quinlan, I could see him on the bench for the Test Team. Has all the qualities required, including that little edge of nastiness.

Totally agree with this - i don't see why he would pick Quinlan unless he is going to be heavily involved. Also, i still think Hayes is a little unlucky considering Adam Jones got picked. can he play both sides or something?

[Shilts]

Good to see Cork Con get as many on as Scotland :D

[dfx-]

Schalk Burger, Bakkies Botha, Victor Matfield, Petersen, Habana, Juan Smit and South Africa will chew them all up :cool:

[joeSoap]

Schalk Burger, Bakkies Botha, Victor Matfield, Petersen, Habana, Juan Smit and South Africa will chew them all up :cool:
Burger isn't the player he was and is frequently exposed at Super 14 level.
Botha and Habana are class, I grant you that.
Matfield and Smit will hold no fears for O'Connell and Wallace, Ferris or Williams.
Pietersen is good with ball in hand but will be exposed defensively.

How this squad bonds will be a key factor, and with the core of it Irish and Welsh I feel there will be a good bond there.

[Shilts]

Congratulations to all the Irish players who got selected for the Lions touring team. However, why are we still clinging to the coat tails of the Empire in the twenty-first century?

If the 6 nations put together a team for some reason I could see how we would want to be a part of it but why are we the only tag-ons to the Brits?

I don't see France or Italy wanting to be part of it, and as an independant country why should we?

Also, everyone in the UK refers to the team as the British Lions, not the full title British and Irish Lions - have a look at the tours available on the net to go and see the British Lions.

Either we are independant or we are not, or do our rugby crowd still like to think that they are part of the Empire??



Also big congrats to Leinster who out-munstered Munster all over the park.

Someone said to me that Limerick lads always bottle it in Croke Park

Quinlan should be banned for his eye-gouging antics. If this means he misses the British Lions tour then he can blame nobody but himself. Tough luck and recover soon to O'Leary.



Pete: Are you happy now that I'm posting in the correct thread? :confused:

[endabob1]

Burger isn't the player he was and is frequently exposed at Super 14 level.
Botha and Habana are class, I grant you that.
Matfield and Smit will hold no fears for O'Connell and Wallace, Ferris or Williams.
Pietersen is good with ball in hand but will be exposed defensively.

How this squad bonds will be a key factor, and with the core of it Irish and Welsh I feel there will be a good bond there.


Having watched O'Connell & O'Callaghan being out manouvered by Cullen & O'Kelly I think Botha & Matfield will tear them a new one. Same can be said for the back row, Burger, Smit, Spies and if selected Luke Watson look a class above the potential Lions back row.

[Schumi]

Having watched O'Connell & O'Callaghan being out manouvered by Cullen & O'Kelly I think Botha & Matfield will tear them a new one.You can't judge them on one game. I didn't think O'Connell played that badly, given how much Munster were on the back foot.

[pete]

Either we are independant or we are not, or do our rugby crowd still like to think that they are part of the Empire??

Its rugby tradition & remember the Irish team is not just the Republic of Ireland.

[endabob1]

You can't judge them on one game. I didn't think O'Connell played that badly, given how much Munster were on the back foot.

Fair point, i thought they took the Welsh line out apart in Cardiff but Matfield & Botha are the best in the business, they won't get second chances

[Schumi]

Fair point, i thought they took the Welsh line out apart in Cardiff but Matfield & Botha are the best in the business, they won't get second chances

It'll be very tough but I'd surprised if they didn't at least hold their own in the lineout. That was one area where Munster were dominant on Saturday.