Lansdowne Road Redevelopment

[Seanie]

<....breaking news...>
The Irish Rugby Football Union has presented the Government with two new proposals for the construction of a national stadium for rugby and soccer at Lansdowne Road in Dublin. Sports Minister John O'Donoghue said he received details of the proposals during a meeting with IRFU officials earlier today. The more expensive plan would see the existing Lansdowne Road facility replaced with a €250m all-seater stadium. The alternative is to redevelop the existing ground at a cost of €170m. Mr O'Donoghue said he would put the plans to the cabinet next week.

[tiktok]

Any prediction on how long Landsdowne would be out of action if redeveloped?

[crc]

On the IRFU site they said Lansdowne would be out of action for two years.

I think its a good plan - based on the HK Rugby stadium and the McAlpine stadium. I even heard that it might be big enough for GAA matches - a gesture of good will?

I think it should be moved back a little bit (NE), so that they can develop a proper railway station where the old stand currently is. I don't know if they've already put this in their plans.

[finlma]

If this is given the green light where are we going to play rugby and soccer internationals for 2 years?
Have the IRFU mentioned this in the report??

[crc]

I haven't seen the report, just articles about the report, butits not mentionned.

For Rugby, it might not be completley out of the question to play games in Belfast of Limerick, sure they'd have smaller crowds but you have to bite the bullet somewhere.

For FAI, I don't know. Tolka might be an option if Croker not made available. Playing abroad is just so unpalatable to think about. Again, we'll have to bite the bullet at some stage. However, I imagine that other countries may be sympathetic and let us play alot of away games around the same time so as to minimise the dammage.

[Schumi]

The IRFU would find it easier to come to some sort of a solution than the FAI. Playing games in Ravenhill and Thomond maybe or agree to play 6-Nations matches away for one year and play them all at home the year after Lansdowne is finished or something.

[republic]

Originally posted by crc
IFor FAI, I don't know. Tolka might be an option if Croker not made available. Playing abroad is just so unpalatable to think about....


Is this a joke???

Playing an international match at Tolka? Capacity 11,000. Maybe the porta-loos could be installed on the unused ground beside the 'half' stand? Zidane, Henry et al would need to be careful. A bad miss might see the ball landing in one of the back gardens along Richmond Road or, worse still, into the Tolka.

If it's a choice between Tolka or any other soccer ground in the country and playing at a 'proper' stadium in the UK, then there can only be one winner.

[pineapple stu]

What about the RDS? Has hosted an international before (1991) and has 28000 or so capacity. Downsides are that it's a showjumping arena, but seeing as how we're used to playing on a rugby pitch, we'd hardly notice...

[republic]

Tolka also hosted a friendly (in 1981) versus Wales. It was mostly all standing in those days and attracted a crowd of 15,000.

The atmosphere at the 1991 game against Wales in the RDS was truly dreadful. I doubt if the capacity of the RDS would be anywhere near 28,000 as there are significant standing areas. There may be 15,000 seats at the RDS. In any event it is simply not up to international standards for a competitive match.

Unfortunately there is no suitable soccer ground in the country capable of hosting an international match at present. Should Croke Park not become available then it's looking like the UK is the only viable option.

[pineapple stu]

Originally posted by republic
The atmosphere at the 1991 game against Wales in the RDS was truly dreadful.

Which makes it different to Lansdowne how?:D


I doubt if the capacity of the RDS would be anywhere near 28,000 as there are significant standing areas. There may be 15,000 seats at the RDS.

That's the generally-quoted (or at least generally-heard by me) attendance for Rovers' first game there against Pat's.

Though of course standing areas don't count for UEFA...



In any event it is simply not up to international standards for a competitive match.

Unfortunately there is no suitable soccer ground in the country capable of hosting an international match at present.

Sadly agree on both.

[gspain]

Atmosphere - seating etc at the Welsh game was dreadful. RDS is an awful venue. We were rubbish that day too. - saw Limerick there too and a European tie v Gornik.

Still think Lansdowne with 22,000 seats has to be considered even at 50 euro or more a pop.

Would be a disgrace if we played in the UK.

[republic]

Originally posted by gspain


Still think Lansdowne with 22,000 seats has to be considered even at 50 euro or more a pop.




The atmosphere at Lansdowne for the majority of matches leaves something to be desired at the best of times. Imagine playing there in front of empty terraces at both ends, minus the eL supporters who have definitely added to the noise and colour in recent times. Playing in front of 22,000 would be a huge advantage to the opposition.

The UK is the only real option at present unless the government come up with something fast.

[finlma]

Originally posted by gspain

Still think Lansdowne with 22,000 seats has to be considered even at 50 euro or more a pop.


How can Lansdowne be considered if it is being redeveloped? The east and west stands will be levelled. It will be a building site with 0 seats so I don't think we can consider it if the redevelopment goes ahead.

[A face]

The English played in Wales while Wembley was being knocked.

If we do play abroad, thats where we should have it.

[NigeSausagepump]

Landsdowne could only hold 22,000, but what kind of crowds could we honestly expect at UK venues? Granted for the French game we could probably get a decent sized crowd, but how many of them would be locals keen to get a look at a world class side?

I'm not convinced that the level of support we'd get in the UK, even at Celtic Park, would be as large or as fervent as some people are making out. I take the point that home games recently have been devoid of atmoshpere, but how much better would it be playing in front of 20,000 partially disinterested spectators at Anfield? I have my doubts whether a huge contingent from here would go over for the games. I've been to every home game for the last 9 years but I wouldn't be able to pay rip off Ryanair prices over to Liverpool or Glasgow for a weekend, or able to take time off work for Wednesday games. Even the die-hards would be hard pressed to make all the away and "home" games.

As to the inevitable claim that the majority of Scottish Celtic fans would be passionate about Ireland, I remain to be convinced that they have a real passion for this country and don't just pay lip service to Irishness for 90 minutes on a Saturday.

[Beavis]

Originally posted by NigeSausagepump


I'm not convinced that the level of support we'd get in the UK, even at Celtic Park, would be as large or as fervent as some people are making out. I take the point that home games recently have been devoid of atmoshpere, but how much better would it be playing in front of 20,000 partially disinterested spectators at Anfield?

I think that given the huge diaspora in Britain we would fill any ground,and the atmosphere would probably be very good.
This said,I'd still hate to consider our home games abroad.It just shouldn't be.There's no way I could afford to go to home(away) and away games,probably resulting in getting to only about half of our games.

Playing in front of a 22,000 crowd is not appealing either.The only option is to plead for Croker.I used to be against soccer in Croke Park but it's the only option now in my book.Give soccer a few years to get a stadium sorted and then we'll be out.:)

[MikeW]

Originally posted by A face
The English played in Wales while Wembley was being knocked.

If we do play abroad, thats where we should have it.

England never played in Wales while Wembley was being rebuilt - they played at Anfield, Old Trafford, Villa Park and almost every other major ground in England.

Wales and England are part of the same country anyway, if we were to play in England (or Wales) we'd be in a foreign country, unlike when Wales played rugby at Wembley - they were only moving their games to what was ultimately their capital city after all.

Even if we wanted to we couldn't play outr home games in Cardiff since its obviously being used by the Welsh for their games.

[gspain]

My point is that we should still play at Lansdowne even if the bucket seats are gone. It would be a huge embarrassment to the country to play in the UK. I've no doubt we'd fill the stadia.

If Lansdowne was being re-developed then there would be no option but unless Croke Park is opened up. However at least then we would see an end in sight. If we go now without definite commitments then we could be 5-10 years away form a "home" competitive game.

[finlma]

Originally posted by MikeW

Wales and England are part of the same country anyway.....they were only moving their games to what was ultimately their capital city after all.


What geography class were you in? Wales and England are different countries and I've many Welsh friends who are extremely proud of where they come from and by no means consider themselves in any way English.
Just so you know for the future Cardiff is the capital of Wales.

[gspain]

Originally posted by finlma
What geography class were you in? Wales and England are different countries and I've many Welsh friends who are extremely proud of where they come from and by no means consider themselves in any way English.
Just so you know for the future Cardiff is the capital of Wales.

The guy who claimed that Wales and england are the same country does have a point from a political perspective albeit they are different countries in footballing terms. No need to go down that rathole anyway.

However the original claim that England played home games in Wales is total crap. They didn't. England haven't played in Wales since 1984 (Mark Hughes's debut).

[Schumi]

It was FA Cup finals that were in Cardiff not England games.

[Slash/ED]

This may be a daft suggestion but...

What's to stop the FAI say, buying Dalymount off Bohemians then leasing it back to them for very little. Then put money towards it, building it up to around a 30,000 all seater, which I'd say they could, and playing there for the smaller matches/friendlys and use Croker for the big ones? At least then we'd have a proper football stadium we own, and one with alot of tradition too. I'm sure that would be finished before Lansedown so we could play there while Lansedown was a building site.

They could even buy Rovers stadium instead and finish it for them :)

[lopez]

Originally posted by NigeSausagepump
I'm not convinced that the level of support we'd get in the UK, even at Celtic Park, would be as large or as fervent as some people are making out...As to the inevitable claim that the majority of Scottish Celtic fans would be passionate about Ireland, I remain to be convinced that they have a real passion for this country and don't just pay lip service to Irishness for 90 minutes on a Saturday.
Twenty to thirty years ago I would have said that there would have been a huge local support for Ireland playing in England. Trouble is at the moment, thanks to high employment in Ireland, Irish numbers have dropped in Britain. I rarely see a recently arrived Irishman or woman, and many of the Irish moved back, including many 2G. I have reservations that without the Irish based support, the games against Israel and Cyprus could see bigger away crowds.

As for Parkhead, well it will probably depend on if there are any huns or ex-huns in the teams. I'm sure the PLO flag waving Parkhead Hezbollah will be out for the Israel game, but apart from that you're looking at about the same as turned up for the game against Scotland, which had two huns for the ok2boo brigade 2boo.

Saying that, if there is an endgame, two years in Glasgow would be worthwhile. Let's hope the GAA at least concedes us two years at Croke Park.

[Ozymandias]

slashe /ed wrote .....What's to stop the FAI say, buying Dalymount off Bohemians then leasing it back to them for very little

FAI are broke.....they have just split 3 million between the four clubs in europe to try and bring the grounds up to uefa licence standard

[Macy]

Originally posted by Slash/ED
This may be a daft suggestion but...

What's to stop the FAI say, buying Dalymount off Bohemians then leasing it back to them for very little.
Not that daft, the FAI and Bohs agreed a deal in the past, but then the FAI backed out of it....




Originally posted by lopez
Trouble is at the moment, thanks to high employment in Ireland, Irish numbers have dropped in Britain. I rarely see a recently arrived Irishman or woman, and many of the Irish moved back, including many 2G.
Trouble? Surely it's a good thing that people are able to go home...

[Barna Bee]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lopez
[B]Twenty to thirty years ago I would have said that there would have been a huge local support for Ireland playing in England. Trouble is at the moment, thanks to high employment in Ireland, Irish numbers have dropped in Britain. I rarely see a recently arrived Irishman or woman, and many of the Irish moved back, including many 2G. I have reservations that without the Irish based support, the games against Israel and Cyprus could see bigger away crowds.

Sorry mate , I seriously beg to differ here.

I live in London and can assure you that if the irish in London alone were the only ones allowed to support The republic in a game played in any stadium near London , there would be a huge demand for tickets......

Was at the powergen cup final in Twickers 2 seasons ago and london irish(Irish in general ) packed out twikckenham , way outnumbering Northampton.....very proud day and very green.....the only time that paddies have had anything to cheer about in Twickenham in recent years.

The idea that everyone has headed home is rubbish.

The figures for the irish in London are still huge.....numbering well into the 500k mark 9all generations etc considered)

have you ever been here on St Patricks day....??? Only in the last few years have they started to The irish a day out on the 17th and the day itself has been an enormous success, so much so the normal Londoners are complaning that nothing is done to celebrate St Georges Day

lads ...stop talking absolute ****e..you just have no idea.

I'd love to take you for a walk around my area (which isn't traditionally irish ) and then you could tell me that there isn't an Irish population over here to lend enough support to the team playing on UK soil.


How many away trips have you been to?

Were you in Japan ?????

The Roissc have a huge membership and always show huge numbers for away trips , way bigger then any one supporter group in ireland itself.

Stop making up stories.

[Barna Bee]

i would go as far as saying that it would be great for the irish in the Uk to be given the opportunity to host The republic here.

i can assure you that the atmosphere generated here would beat the sh1te out of any atmosphere generated in Lansdowne for the past few matches....EL fans or npt , it has been nothing short of a farse....pure sh1t support with added booing.

[finlma]

I also live in London and there's a huge amount of Irish people here. If we played our games in London there's no question that no matter where we played it would sell out.

[lopez]

Originally posted by Macy
Trouble? Surely it's a good thing that people are able to go home...
Apologies Macy. Poor wording on my part, I'm afraid.:o Full, or near full employment in Ireland is something I hope continues.

Originally posted by Barna Bee
Sorry mate , I seriously beg to differ here.

I live in London and can assure you that if the irish in London alone were the only ones allowed to support The republic in a game played in any stadium near London , there would be a huge demand for tickets......
Thinking about it again, I perhaps was a bit pessimistic. We are talking full competitive internationals. However I remember when Ireland played at West Ham in 94, there was a poor turn out to watch Ireland by local Irish fans (couple of thousand at most which is poor for the numbers in London). Had Ireland been allowed to play Jamaica at Loftus Road in 98 (the FA said that it was not in their interests to allow games in England between two foreign associations but have allowed Jamaica to play Nigeria and India play Bangladesh since) then a better assessment would have been made. Still this is all theoretical because if Irish fans can afford to come over and watch Man Ure etc every fortnight they can afford four trips to London, and therefore good crowds will be guaranteed.

Originally posted by Barna Bee
Was at the powergen cup final in Twickers 2 seasons ago and london irish(Irish in general ) packed out twikckenham , way outnumbering Northampton.....very proud day and very green.....the only time that paddies have had anything to cheer about in Twickenham in recent years.
I was there too. So London Irish can pull in sometimes 12,000 for home games. Many of these aren't interested in soccer.

Originally posted by Barna Bee
The idea that everyone has headed home is rubbish.
I didn't say everyone has gone home. I said Irish numbers have dropped, while the numbers of Irish born and 2G in Ireland has increased due to greater employment. Is that rubbish? Perhaps the spacemen have been in town?

Originally posted by Barna Bee
The figures for the irish in London are still huge.....numbering well into the 500k mark 9all generations etc considered)

have you ever been here on St Patricks day....??? Only in the last few years have they started to The irish a day out on the 17th and the day itself has been an enormous success, so much so the normal Londoners are complaning that nothing is done to celebrate St Georges Day

lads ...stop talking absolute ****e..you just have no idea.
Of course. I just work in London, drink in London and live on its periphery. I just follow Ireland for the nice shirt the team wears.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Barna Bee
How many away trips have you been to?

Were you in Japan ?????
Well if we are going to descend into how many away games we've been to, I've been to most away games since September 1981, including Israel in 1984 and Iceland in 1986. I know for a fact you weren't in Iceland because only nine Irishmen went out there. Yes I was in Japan, but so what if I wasn't? What is the difference between someone who has followed the team abroad for 22 years to a kid who watched Ireland away for the first time in Basel? Both can make a positive contribution to this forum. Try cutting the 'I've been to every away game since 1997 or so, so I know more than anyone else' b*llocks and stick to the decent arguments you normally forward.

[Junior]

Originally posted by lopez
[BThinking about it again, I perhaps was a bit pessimistic. We are talking full competitive internationals. However I remember when Ireland played at West Ham in 94, there was a poor turn out to watch Ireland by local Irish fans (couple of thousand at most which is poor for the numbers in London). [/B]

One of my earliest games, just prior to the World Cup if i remember. "gonna send you a postcard....send you a postcard" to the tans, bought myself a "big Jack cracked it, Taylor ***ed it, do I not like that!! T-Shirt. Was back stage with Oasis the night before in Windsor with the older Gallagher brother. ahhh happy days.:p :p

Whose testimonial was that Lopez? I forget

[Duncan Gardner]

Originally posted by lopez
I know for a fact you weren't in Iceland because only nine Irishmen went out there.

You're nobbut a glory hunter, Lope. NI expect to take about 50 to sunny Tallinn in March, but the last Baltic trip (in 1995) saw only six make it.

As the Estonians regularly play friendlies in grounds with capacities of 1,000- 2,000, I doubt we'll be outsung though...

[lopez]

Originally posted by Junior
Whose testimonial was that Lopez? I forget
Tony Gale...I think. SM told me the story about meeting this bloke after the game talking about seeing his brothers in a band over Windsor way. He remembers it as: Yeah, yeah, yeah, :rolleyes: another bloke with their brothers in some f*cking band. Then about a year later... Your My Wonderwall. :o :o :o

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
You're nobbut a glory hunter, Lope. NI expect to take about 50 to sunny Tallinn in March, but the last Baltic trip (in 1995) saw only six make it.

As the Estonians regularly play friendlies in grounds with capacities of 1,000- 2,000, I doubt we'll be outsung though...
Ah the days before the ole, ole , ole brigade. Savour it. You may not get a ticket when the O6C hit the big time again.:D

[Macy]

Originally posted by lopez
Tony Gale...I think. SM told me the story about meeting this bloke after the game talking about seeing his brothers in a band over Windsor way. He remembers it as: Yeah, yeah, yeah, :rolleyes: another bloke with their brothers in some f*cking band. Then about a year later... Your My Wonderwall. :o :o :o

Typical Cockneys, only get into Oasis when they start going sh!t.... :)

[crc]

Originally posted by Barna Bee
i would go as far as saying that it would be great for the irish in the Uk to be given the opportunity to host The republic here.

I'd hate to see a "HOME" game played outside Ireland, but I suppose it has to be contemplted. If that does happen, I think only one or two (max) of the games should be played in the UK - probably London (there are flights to there from most Irish airports, unlike British regional cities). The games against Israel, Cyprus and (esp.) Faroes should definately stay in Ireland.
Maybe the Faroes game could be in Cork.

In February 1999, Portugal played the Netherlands in Paris. This was organised so that the [huge] Portugese community there could watch their national team. Admittedly this was a friendly, but it is certainly a precedent.

However it probably wouldn't be a good idea to play the France game at Highbury!!

[gspain]

BTW if we move the France game to the UK then all must follow. FIFA rules stipulate this otherwise France would have an unfair advatage on the Swiss or the Faroes.

Would be a huge national embarrassment if we had to play home games away.

[republic]

Originally posted by gspain

Would be a huge national embarrassment if we had to play home games away.


Bertie was quoted over the weekend in Ireland on Sunday (your friendly GAA rag) saying that it would be a "humiliation" if the national team was forced to play abroad. While Bertie wants to build a stadium, Slim & the PD's have done nothing so far to suggest that this "humiliation" can be avoided.

Celtic Park is the obvious choice.

A well travelled supporter like gspain should have no problems making it to Glasgow. :D

[gspain]

Originally posted by republic
Bertie was quoted over the weekend in Ireland on Sunday (your friendly GAA rag) saying that it would be a "humiliation" if the national team was forced to play abroad. While Bertie wants to build a stadium, Slim & the PD's have done nothing so far to suggest that this "humiliation" can be avoided.

Celtic Park is the obvious choice.

A well travelled supporter like gspain should have no problems making it to Glasgow. :D

I had no problem making it to Glasgow in February nor indeed to Celtic Park back in 1991 for Packie's testimonial (Celtic v Ireland)which of course was back in the days before Celtic were discovered by Irish fans so that doesn't count. :) Funny that but on the boat etc we didn't meet any other Irish fans who had travelled over to support either team.

It would be humiliating to play our home games in Britain.

If we have to and I don't accept that we do then we should choose a venue more accessible for Irish fans such as Manchester, Liverpool or London.

Furthermore by playing at Celtic Park we would be sending out the wrong message re sectarianism i.e. what if Northern Ireland played ay Ibrox.

[republic]

Originally posted by gspain
If we have to and I don't accept that we do then we should choose a venue more accessible for Irish fans such as Manchester, Liverpool or London.

Furthermore by playing at Celtic Park we would be sending out the wrong message re sectarianism i.e. what if Northern Ireland played ay Ibrox.


Celtic Park is the obvious choice but Manchester, Liverpool and London would also be acceptable.

As regards "sending out the wrong message" why should we care what the Norn Iron supporters think. These are the people that happily call us "beggars" on their own unofficial supporters website.

I'm sure gspain experienced plenty of sectarianism in the citadel of tolerance during the last visit of the Republic (4-0 victory :D :D ) almost a decade ago.

[liamon]

The message would not be directed solely at Northern Ireland supporters.

[gspain]

Originally posted by republic
Celtic Park is the obvious choice but Manchester, Liverpool and London would also be acceptable.

As regards "sending out the wrong message" why should we care what the Norn Iron supporters think. These are the people that happily call us "beggars" on their own unofficial supporters website.

I'm sure gspain experienced plenty of sectarianism in the citadel of tolerance during the last visit of the Republic (4-0 victory :D :D ) almost a decade ago.

It is not just what Northern Ireland fans would think but what anyone would deduce from us playing home games at Celtic Park.

Yes I did experience some sectarianism from a minority of the home fans during our 3 games at Windsor in 88,93 & 94 but it was never anything like as bad as protrayed in the media. Things have got an awful lot better I believe. I also saw Limerick at a few different venues (and even Dundalk at one) plus our B game in Portadown in 1990 and our youths UEFA qualifier at the Oval in 1999 without experiencing any problem sand just seeing genuine football fans.

Unfortunately NI have a problem with a sectarian minority of the their "fans" supporting a Scottish football club and bringing that bigotry to bear on the International scene. However the sectarianism is much more difficult to stomach when it is from your so called own fans see lunatics at Lansdowne abusing Maden & Flo et al.

Another reason why Celtic Park would be totally unacceptable is the logistics of gettign there.

It is a long way overland - Manchester and Liverpool are much more accessible.

It doesn't have the airlinks that London or even the north west of England has with Dublin.

We also have a significant travelling support from england (mainly London). We get very few Scottish based people travelling to our games.

However having said all that 22,000 people at home in Dublin has got to be the best option if Croke Park remains shut to "British" games.

[republic]

Originally posted by gspain
.

Yes I did experience some sectarianism from a minority of the home fans during our 3 games at Windsor in 88,93 & 94 but it was never anything like as bad as protrayed in the media.

However having said all that 22,000 people at home in Dublin has got to be the best option if Croke Park remains shut to "British" games.


I was at the 1994 match in Windsor. It was not an enjoyable experience despite the 4-0 victory. I doubt if gspain stayed to exchange pleasantries with the home supporters after the game ;) but perhaps I'm mistaken?

I thought the atmosphere was extremely nasty. I haven't experienced such a threatening atmosphere since then despite regularly attending matches in the Premiership, very often being part of the away support in places such as Old Trafford, Goodison, Stamford Bridge etc.


22,000 is a joke and would hand a distinct advantage to the away side. I can just imagine the French and Swiss reaction to hearing that the ground will be half empty.

[Junior]

Originally posted by gspain
Another reason why Celtic Park would be totally unacceptable is the logistics of gettign there.

It is a long way overland - Manchester and Liverpool are much more accessible.

It doesn't have the airlinks that London or even the north west of England has with Dublin.

We also have a significant travelling support from england (mainly London). We get very few Scottish based people travelling to our games.

However having said all that 22,000 people at home in Dublin has got to be the best option if Croke Park remains shut to "British" games.

Firstly, My preferred option is for games to remain in Ireland.

However, the argument against Glasgow for logistical reasons doesn't add up.

Airports in Prestwick, Glasgow & Edinburgh all ideal for games at CP. Ferry route to Stranraer from Belfast

As Im sure you're aware this very journey is made by thousands every other week.;)

I agree that we don't get much support from Scottish based fans and this could lead to alot of bandwagon jumpers, but to be fair that would happen anywhere in the UK, with 1G, 2G Irish who do not normally travel to games suddenly finding one on their doorstep.

[gspain]

Originally posted by republic
I was at the 1994 match in Windsor. It was not an enjoyable experience despite the 4-0 victory. I doubt if gspain stayed to exchange pleasantries with the home supporters after the game ;) but perhaps I'm mistaken?

I thought the atmosphere was extremely nasty. I haven't experienced such a threatening atmosphere since then despite regularly attending matches in the Premiership, very often being part of the away support in places such as Old Trafford, Goodison, Stamford Bridge etc.


22,000 is a joke and would hand a distinct advantage to the away side. I can just imagine the French and Swiss reaction to hearing that the ground will be half empty.

At least there would be an away side.

I was in the top tier of the north Stand in 94 and I appreciate a number of people around me left after our second goal (approx 10 minutes gone). However we had over 1,000 fans at the game mixed in with the home fans and I haven't heard of anyone being attacked. Yes there was some verbals. I actually took great pride in the fact that NI fans could sit with the home fans at Lansdowne and not receive any abuse and still cheer openly for their team. Also at least one Union Jack clearly visible during the 93 game. I was only a kid at the 78 game in Lansdowne but my memory is tthat there was an away end on the north terrace and plenty of Ulster flags.

I understand things are a lot better now. I was also at a coupler of other NI games at Windsor - Denmark 90 & Lithuania 92 and no issues at all - plenty of laughing and joking and we were clearly identified as southerners well before Lithuania's 2 goals. This was the opening game in our group and obviously we wanted Lithuania to get a result.

I appreciate you could probably cheer openly at Old Trafford for the away side (not Liverpool or City) and it wouldn't cause ariot unless you knocked over somebody's chardonnay. A mate of mine who is a Leeds fan was at Stamford Bridge with me a few days after the Wembley match in 91 and it was not a pleasant experience for him in the old West Stand. He didn't dare move a muscle when Leeds scored. I haven't been to Stamford Bridge for 4 years now but I doubt if you could cheer openly for the away side in the home end without getting some abuse. Never been to Goodison.

I have only once been really physically threatened at a football match and that was an end of season 3rd division game at Southend in 1989 when my female companion and I rose to acclaim Reading's first attack and equaliser after 86 minutes of dreadful football. She was hit, I was about to take a heavy beating when Southend got a winner and we escaped.

Also been with the home fans at Millwall in the old and New Den - not a pleasant experience and things are a lot better in the New Den.

[gspain]

Originally posted by Junior
Firstly, My preferred option is for games to remain in Ireland.

However, the argument against Glasgow for logistical reasons doesn't add up.

Airports in Prestwick, Glasgow & Edinburgh all ideal for games at CP. Ferry route to Stranraer from Belfast

As Im sure you're aware this very journey is made by thousands every other week.;)

I agree that we don't get much support from Scottish based fans and this could lead to alot of bandwagon jumpers, but to be fair that would happen anywhere in the UK, with 1G, 2G Irish who do not normally travel to games suddenly finding one on their doorstep.

Belfast is 2.5 hours by road from Dublin and further from Limerick, Cork etc. Then you have the road trip up from Stranraer - did it in 91 via Larne (from Galway) and it was a long long haul. there are flights to Prestwick, Glasgow and Edinburgh as you say but these are much mess frequent than flights to London say.

I know it can be done and is done but it is not the easiest and most accesible city in the UK from Ireland. Manchester and Liverpool have plenty of options by boat and air and are much closer. 99 minutes to Holyhead and 2 hours to Liverpool or Manchester by car. Direct boat to Liverpool etc.

Furthermore it does not make sense to bring thousands of RoI fans through Northern Ireland en route to a game.

Anyway I don't see any positives for Celtic Park. It looks like a fine stadium on tv (was a kip in 91) but then so is Old Trafford or indeed Anfield etc.

[lopez]

Originally posted by republic
As regards "sending out the wrong message" why should we care what the Norn Iron supporters think. These are the people that happily call us "beggars" on their own unofficial supporters website.
Exactly. Why should we be concerned with supporters that call us 'beggars'? I'd say Fenians and Taigs are less offensive. Incidentally, wasn't it Rangers supporters who used to call Celtic fans beggars due to the clubs origins - charity, poor Irish, beggars, geddit? Wow, what a f*cking coincidence?:rolleyes:

I have yet to see any criticism of this label...or indeed 'plastic paddy' which is not used to describe us mortals on the :rolleyes: 'mainland' - no we're just English - but Irish nationalists in the O6C who follow their own country, by the IFA's community officer who posts on the site, mostly in a semi-official capacity. If anyone can supply me with a quote from Michael Boyd on the web site to the contrary, then I will gladly retract this statement with an apology. In the meantime I can only presume that the author of the IFA's much acclaimed campaign against bigotry, must find this label acceptable.

The only wrong message to be sent from playing at Parkhead is that the powers that be can't get their act together and build a proper stadium in Ireland. If we have to play abroad, then it makes sense to play where there is a greater 1st and 2nd generation community - London, Manchester, or Birmingham - rather than in a city where very little travelling support comes from which is Glasgow, and where the local participation could well hinge on the availability of a Rangers player (current or former) or Jimmy Hill, to boo.

Originally posted by gspain
I was in the top tier of the north Stand in 94 and I appreciate a number of people around me left after our second goal (approx 10 minutes gone). However we had over 1,000 fans at the game mixed in with the home fans and I haven't heard of anyone being attacked.
That's because they had some sense and kept themselves to themselves. In two games I've been to WP (missed 93) I've yet to see a tricolour displayed, even in an official capacity. It's not just the crowd that you can blame. We could go up there mob handed and kick off, if that was what we were into. It's the 'security' forces that supervise the place and their one-sided policing that makes it impossible for Irish fans to follow their team as they do in other countries.

Things have changed, yes. But then the O6C has changed since 1994 - I was at the Spain game this year and didn't hear any party songs, not even for the most Catholic country on the planet, but still saw sectarian paraphanalia being worn by some fans. However if you think that the football sectarianism of the North is overrated then why the concern over Irish fans travelling through there?

[gspain]

Originally posted by lopez
Exactly. :

I have yet to see any criticism of this label...or indeed 'plastic paddy' which is not used to describe us mortals on the :rolleyes: 'mainland' - no we're just English - but Irish nationalists in the O6C who follow their own country, by the IFA's community officer who posts on the site, mostly in a semi-official capacity. If anyone can supply me with a quote from Michael Boyd on the web site to the contrary, then I will gladly retract this statement with an apology. In the meantime I can only presume that the author of the IFA's much acclaimed campaign against bigotry, must find this label acceptable.


That's because they had some sense and kept themselves to themselves. In two games I've been to WP (missed 93) I've yet to see a tricolour displayed, even in an official capacity. It's not just the crowd that you can blame. We could go up there mob handed and kick off, if that was what we were into. It's the 'security' forces that supervise the place and their one-sided policing that makes it impossible for Irish fans to follow their team as they do in other countries.

Things have changed, yes. But then the O6C has changed since 1994 - I was at the Spain game this year and didn't hear any party songs, not even for the most Catholic country on the planet, but still saw sectarian paraphanalia being worn by some fans. However if you think that the football sectarianism of the North is overrated then why the concern over Irish fans travelling through there?

Lopez I've yet to see anything written by Michael Boyd that could be remotely construed as sectarian. he is definitely one of the good guys.

There are still some problems at Windsor yes some people will wear some sectarian stuff but they are very much in the minority and don't appear very often.

There are of course still problems with sectarianism in general with society in Northern Ireland. they haven't gone away. I do think it is over-rated.

Windsor Park was not a family day out for any of our games. there were sectarian comments and sectarian songs although it was taken out of proportion. You're correct in that you couldn't (and nobody did) produce a tricolour and sing Come on you boys in green.

At the B game in Portadown or the youths game at the Oval I could cheer iopenly for Ireland without any problems. Most of the other southern fans at the Oval appeared to be parents etc. We came from 2 down to win 3-2 in Portadown and I was jumping around the place. BTW don't recall any sectarian chants, comments at that game and certainly nothing at me indeed was made to feel very welcome.

I never had an issue with the police or army at any game and found them to be very helpful.

I have no problem going to NI and in general think there is no problem. I would imagine thousands of Irish fans would pass safely throughto the ferries but there is the potential for things to go wrong. A car or bus full of Irish fans in green white and orange colours going into the wrong area in Belffast or Larne could cause an issue. I appreciate Celtic supporters buses do it all the time but they know their way at this stage. I appreciate it is a small risk but frankly an unneccessary one.

[lopez]

Originally posted by gspain
Lopez I've yet to see anything written by Michael Boyd that could be remotely construed as sectarian. he is definitely one of the good guys.
Boyd posts on a site where 'beggars' is the standard word for Irish fans from the 26C. Personally I couldn't give a f*ck if they called us communion wafer chomping hijos de putas. Just don't come all that 'we're not sectarian/bigoted because we don't use Fenian or Taig' sh*te and expect us to think it's just harmless banter.

The trouble is not what Boyd has said - he's the man trying to get the RC population back to Windsor Park in a manner reminiscent of how telephone companies after treating their 'customers' like sh*te for years, tell them 'we've changed'. He's hardly gonna call us Fenian b*stards - it's what he doesn't say. Perhaps if he could denounce the use of this word it might give some credibility among many nationalists, me included. He could also point out that Ireland isn't divided by a physical border but by ethnicity - even if it seems miniscule in comparison to the differences in Israel or Zimbabwe - and that Northern Nationalists have the right to follow whoever the f*ck they like. After all there's a bunch of Donegal born Finn Harps fans that follow NI (as well as Rangers) for exactly the same ethnical reasons.

Originally posted by gspain
There are still some problems at Windsor yes some people will wear some sectarian stuff but they are very much in the minority and don't appear very often.
I've witnessed the new WP, and it is an huge improvement on the my two previous visits. But then we have to take into account the opposition on those two occasions. While some still seem to add No Surrender to parts of the British (another discreprency) anthem, there were many around me that refused point blank to sing one line of it whatsoever. Knowing how unionists love the German lady, I can only assume a large number of nationalists support the side. However most of these were fifty plus, many with their grandchildren. A whole generation of Nationalists will never return to WP to support NI, as I witnessed by the large number in the Botanic Inn before the game coming into watch Ireland's game with Georgia.

Originally posted by gspain
At the B game in Portadown or the youths game at the Oval I could cheer iopenly for Ireland without any problems. Most of the other southern fans at the Oval appeared to be parents etc. We came from 2 down to win 3-2 in Portadown and I was jumping around the place. BTW don't recall any sectarian chants, comments at that game and certainly nothing at me indeed was made to feel very welcome.
As you noted, after two goals down, the hangers - on left WP in 94. Junior games will always attract the 'real' supporter, although to openly support the Republic in Portadown is to me amazing.


Originally posted by gspain
I never had an issue with the police or army at any game and found them to be very helpful.
In 88 a load of us had to stand getting abuse from one care-in-the-community case who in normal circumstances would be arrested before he got punched. The RUC just stood there watching, no doubt waiting for one of us to lamp him.

After the game we were taken onto the M1 through an iron door in the peace (sic.) line. While the RUC bent over their land rovers with rifles pointed across the motorway, not one of them told us that maybe it would be a good idea to get behind the land rovers. No. They just let people walk up the motorway. If we got shot, then the RUC would be quids in twice. A taig - better still an 'English' one - would be dead or injured and the IRA had done the job for them. The fact that we got to the end of the motorway uninjured was not down to the big friendly policemen of the RUC. And on top of that another police land rover feels the need to mount the pavement by the roundabout to try and take out me and a mate.

[gspain]

Portadown has a bad name in the media and there are nutters on both sides re the Garvaghy Road dispute.

Have had RC players and officials - one mentioned to me at a game in 93 that they had fielded 9 RCs out of 13 at a recent game.

Also openly supported Limerick at a pre-season friendly in Ballymena - no bother at all in fact made very welcome.

Then coming from Limerick I'm used to places getting undeserved stick. :(

BTW I'm aware of the east Donegal NI supporters club and frankly I don't like it and wish they'd support us.

Re the term beggars, well I'm not easily insulted and it doesn't really bother me. I'd be much more concerned if our so-called fans started using offensive terms for opposing fans. NI see us as their rivals and in most cases in football there is a derogatory term for rivals. - scum etc.

Michael Boyd has not used inappropriate language that I'm aware of and lots of people post on the site incl me.

[lopez]

Originally posted by gspain
BTW I'm aware of the east Donegal NI supporters club and frankly I don't like it and wish they'd support us.
The one thing that peeves me about the odd poster on this site is the insistence that Northern Naitonalists MUST support NI because that was where they were born. It's fine having a username after the nom de guerre of Belfast's most famous fascist but you don't have to behave like one.

Back in the seventies, I supported NI whenever they were the on the box in the British championship. I think that most Irish football fans of my age would agree they did too. Thing is that a team that plays GSTQ before matches, plays under the Butcher's Apron (as it most definately did in the seventies) and boos its own players for playing for a certain Glasgow club with Irish roots hardly endears itself to Nationalists.

Added to this is the myth that northern nationalists are glory-hunters. I don't see Northern GAA fans supporting Cork, Kerry or Meath in the eighties and nineties. Northern nationalists would support all teams in Ireland just like general Joe Public in Britain supports another British team if theirs gets knocked out. However, NI is no ordinary team. The fact that they have had a campaign to end sectarianism says it all.

Saying that, I couldn't give a f*ck who the Donegal NI supporters follow. They can hardly be labelled glory-hunters and I'm sure they are following NI for the same reasons thousands of Northern Nationalists follow us. I'd fight tooth and nail if someone told me I MUST support England. Good luck to them. If nothing else it means a few less people chasing tickets next season.

Originally posted by gspain
Re the term beggars, well I'm not easily insulted and it doesn't really bother me.
I said it didn't bother me either. Just that they claim it's different from clalling us Fenians.

Originally posted by gspain
I'd be much more concerned if our so-called fans started using offensive terms for opposing fans. NI see us as their rivals and in most cases in football there is a derogatory term for rivals. - scum etc.
I'd like to have a rival that is not 150th in the world rankings but that is a bit below the belt. As for Scum, well when the supporters of a certain team not a million miles away of whom I've had personal contact with, start behaving like humans - suggestions are stop smashing up our stadium even if that's what's needed or sneaking up to a pub mob handed which has about half a dozen Irish fans, an comotosed old drunk and a couple with a baby, and then attack it with bricks - I'll stop calling them scum. But then I'm sure you'll suggest that it's only a minority, and they are mostly loveable rogues.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by gspain
Michael Boyd has not used inappropriate language that I'm aware of and lots of people post on the site incl me.
Again you misread my post. I didn't accuse him of using 'inapropriate' language. If he did he'd be sacked by now. It's the absence of him posting a thread along the lines of 'Beggars. Its Sectarian, stoopid!' or 'Plastic Paddies: Hmm where the f*ck is Donegal then?'

Shona Nollaig/Feliz navidad.

[TheRealRovers]

Originally posted by gspain
UK
Where's that? :confused:

Originally posted by gspain
BTW I'm aware of the east Donegal NI supporters club and frankly I don't like it and wish they'd support us.
Sad but true
East Donegal NISC (http://members.lycos.co.uk/fhtb/fhtbhome.html):mad: