Banter or racist abuse?

[Dalymountrower]

A black player playing in the LOI had a chant directed at him at recent game by opposing fans to the effect that "his father washes elephants and his mothers a ho`"
Good humoured banter a la the Black and White Minstrels show (uncut) or behaviour that should attract an automatic fine for the club in question?

[superfrank]

Has anyone asked how Joey Ndo himself feels about it?

[Dodge]

Wasn't recent but some Pats fans sang that song when Ndo played for rovers last year

Is saying someone washes elephants rascist?

[gufc2000]

Wasn't recent but some Pats fans sang that song when Ndo played for rovers last year

Is saying someone washes elephants rascist?
Yes, i think it is. Definite fine imo, and fans that made the remarks should be barred from LoI grounds

[Dalymountrower]

Wasn't recent but some Pats fans sang that song when Ndo played for rovers last year

Is saying someone washes elephants rascist?


So you`re in the "its good natured banter" column ? Maybe you should have a look at the definition in the Equality Act and re-consider?

[Dodge]

Where did I say that? I don't like the song and wouldn't sing it. It's in poor taste certainly

Still not sure it's rascist

Prsume some other club sang it recently?

[RonnieB]

I wash elephants :(

[John83]

Is saying someone washes elephants rascist?
Yeah, I'd say it is. At least, I can't imagine anyone singing it at Greg O'Halloran. I mean, I presume it was his mum who washed the elephant. :confused: ;) :o

Whether the club in question can do anything about it... I think fines for that kind of thing are a little harsh. It's not like I've ever seen stewards successfully hush a crowd. (Well, except at Ireland games, where they're skilled at it) They can't really pick out the culprits and ban them either. I mean, it's one thing to coller some **** who threw a bottle or a punch, but a block of people (mostly) singing?

About the only argument for it is that people won't want to bring down fines on their own club, but I don't know how effective that is.

[jebus]

Can't stop people making remarks like that in any walk of life, let alone in a football match.

I wouldn't do them myself but good luck trying to pick each and every culprit out of a crowd, especially as most clubs fans don't seem bothered when it's their own crowd doing it , and really it's a club's SC that should be sorting the scum out from their crowd

[LeixlipRed]

It's a racial stereotype, albeit a slightly obscure one. Therefore, it should definitely not be allowed. But it's fairly obvious it's in poor taste anyway :eek:

[irishultra]

banter but its racist...don't believe there is much malice in it, so tbh i don't think its so bad, if they were telling ndo to 'go back to his own country', then there is malice in it.

although a very ****e chant it has to be said.

[A face]

Wasn't some guy jailed for two months for racial abuse a while back? I hate the fact that its a LOI game involved here but you have to throw the book at them and the club for this. Whether you call it making an example or what ever but zero tolerance is the way to go. Its not on and causes far too many problems for it to be brushed off as 'it was only banter'

[Dodge]

So with the original post, I assume that one of Dundalk, Derry or Rovers chanted it this year?

[irishultra]

Wasn't some guy jailed for two months for racial abuse a while back? I hate the fact that its a LOI game involved here but you have to throw the book at them and the club for this. Whether you call it making an example or what ever but zero tolerance is the way to go. Its not on and causes far too many problems for it to be brushed off as 'it was only banter'

yeah was towards thiam at a drogheda game. i don't agree with punishing the clubs at all. as the saying goes, countries aren't racist, people are, well same applies for loi clubs, and none of them as institutions condone or support any sort of discrimination in anyway(well except for wexford youths) so punishment would be insane imo.

[Dodge]

Found out it was Rovers fans. No idea of the amount. Definitely only a handful of pats fans attempted it last year (skanger kids mostly)

[osarusan]

you have to throw the book at them and the club for this.

I suppose the argument is that clubs will try harder to eradicate things like this if they will be directly punished for it rather than just having a fan banned or whatever, but the idea that the club can be held responsible and punished for something they can never completely control is flawed. A club could do everything in its power to stop comments like this and would still find itself in trouble because of a tiny number of fans.

[LeixlipRed]

A zero tolerance policy is the only way forward. I'd have no problem seeing people arrested for this sort of behaviour never mind just expelled and banned from grounds.

[Hairy Bowsie]

Ah for christs sake, it a stupid chant but i doubt even any of the people chanting it knew it was racist. Much like the Pats crowd Dodge mentioned and lets be honest N'do is a lazy, money grabbing, **** and he shouldn't forget it

[Dalymountrower]

Ah for christs sake, it a stupid chant but i doubt even any of the people chanting it knew it was racist. Much like the Pats crowd Dodge mentioned and lets be honest N'do is a lazy, money grabbing, **** and he shouldn't forget it

Tough times for taxi drivers alright if you have time to post at 1.20 a.m..

[Dalymountrower]

Found out it was Rovers fans. No idea of the amount. Definitely only a handful of pats fans attempted it last year (skanger kids mostly)

In fairness to a lot of Rovers fans they have identified it as unacceptable racial abuse. I was simply trying to gauge the reaction without identifying the club or player.

[Ronnie]

a) You fat ******* -
b) X player/manager is a ****** -
c) Sheep shaggers -
d) hes gay, hes bent, his arse is up for rent

Equality my arse, becuase a player is black and the abuse makes reference to his heritage, its somehow worse than calling another player a ******, a rent boy etc?

[pete]

Suggesting a black person washes elephants is probably racist but just funny if suggest a white person does that job. That said washing elephants is probably a highly respected job in Thailand.

[iceman]

Dont think the lad in the Ibrihama Thiam case did time, As far as I reall he went out to a training session and apologised to the player and that was accepted.
That incident was blown out of all proportion , the fella did'nt shout anything at Ibriahama he just commented to his mates on the terrace that he was a "uselass fcuking ni**er" , it was overheard by a club official who made the most of it. The player never even heard it.

[Boo_Boy]

I remember being at a first division match back in 2004(not involving Sligo Rovers), a guy came on for one of the teams, his second name was Baa Ba. A section of the fans started singing ''Baa Ba black sheep have you any wool'' :rolleyes:.

[redobit]

Dont agree with what was said, but its a strange one in some respects.

Would you consider the latest episode of the simpsons on Paddys Day abusive?, showing irish people drinking like mad. Every country has a steryotype/ dig: ireland: drink, scots: skirts, new zeland: sheep.

Apologies to all irish, scots and kiwis :)

[Sheridan]

If what's been reported is accurate, this is clearly an open and shut case of naked racial abuse. Let's see if the FAI's much-touted anti-racism initiative (fronted by Joseph Ndo) has any teeth. The matter should be reported to UEFA, a large fine imposed and the team forced to play at least one game behind closed doors.

[Mason]

If what's been reported is accurate, this is clearly an open and shut case of naked racial abuse. Let's see if the FAI's much-touted anti-racism initiative (fronted by Joseph Ndo) has any teeth. The matter should be reported to UEFA, a large fine imposed and the team forced to play at least one game behind closed doors.

You just cant let it go can you. Personally I didnt hear it on Friday but im led to believe it was song by a few. If so its wrong but your bitterness just gets in the way. Your club is gone get over it.

[blackholesun]

Wasnt there and probably wouldnt have sung it myself but ...

What about a song calling someone from Poland a beetroot farmer?
Or calling someone from Australia a sheep-shearer?
This is economic / geographic stereotyping but I dont think its racist.

Ndo is a waster who has milked the league for years, only playing now and again when he feels like it. Should he be immune from some stick / banter because he is coloured?

If some set of fans sing any song winding up a coloured player then some people will try to make out it is racism regardless.

bhs

[osarusan]

What about a song calling someone from Poland a beetroot farmer?
Or calling someone from Australia a sheep-shearer?
This is economic / geographic stereotyping but I dont think its racist.

I think that (wrongly) the reaction is stronger when the stereotyping is of somebody who is a different colour.



Should he be immune from some stick / banter because he is coloured?

Giving someone stick doesn't mean it has to involve race does it? There could be a thousand things said about N'do without mentioning race.



If some set of fans sing any song winding up a coloured player then some people will try to make out it is racism regardless.

I'd disagree.

There is a difference between a chant of "You f*****g waster" and "You black f*****g waster." In the second, black has become a pejorative adjective.

[eelmonster]

Wasnt there and probably wouldnt have sung it myself but ...

What about a song calling someone from Poland a beetroot farmer?
Or calling someone from Australia a sheep-shearer?
This is economic / geographic stereotyping but I dont think its racist.

Ndo is a waster who has milked the league for years, only playing now and again when he feels like it. Should he be immune from some stick / banter because he is coloured?

If some set of fans sing any song winding up a coloured player then some people will try to make out it is racism regardless.

bhs

It's hard not to read the above post in anything other than an Afrikana accent. So, you wouldn't be at all offended if someone called you a big, thick, ignorant, potato washing, pikey paddy, then? Sure it's only a bit of harmless banter.

[Lionel Ritchie]

A couple of thoughts...

Lucas Radebe is still affectionately known to many Leeds United supporters as "the Chief". It's a title I can't imagine being bestowed on a long serving player and SA international who happened to be white/caucasian. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe the nickname itself has to do with his former club Kaiser Chiefs ...though i doubt it. But is it racist?

In their suitably tabloid promotional ads for the opening of the 1995-96 premier league season, Sky Sports depicted a number of star footballers returning from their summer holidays ...Liverpools Ian Rush was shown hitching a ride on a hay cart while Leeds Uniteds Ghanan striker Tony Yeboah was shown emerging from a mud hut before returning to yorkshire. Again is it racist? ...or just in poor taste? If the latter -who gets to arbitrate taste?

I'd like to suggest it should be me.

[the-blue-harp]

off topic but was anyone watching the late late show on friday night when pat kenny made the black comments to the wee dancer lad?? i thought that was a large bit racist and pat kenny should be fined and be made apologise for that.

[Smurf1]

The chant was robbed from Spur's who use it to abuse adebayor. It is racist, no doubt, but as Ronnie says a few posts up, where do you draw the line? There's a lot sung at football games that isn't exactly "politicaly correct".

[sligoman]

because he is coloured?Are we all not coloured no? Last time I checked, white was also a colour.

[jebus]

It's hard not to read the above post in anything other than an Afrikana accent. So, you wouldn't be at all offended if someone called you a big, thick, ignorant, potato washing, pikey paddy, then? Sure it's only a bit of harmless banter.

I'd be offended that they hadn't included a swear word somewhere along the insult, but that's about it

If Ndo was targetted by racial abuse let him decide if he wants to follow it up with a complaint, if he does then the FAI and the club in question should take action. Until then could everyone else just calm down a smidge and go back to their Jade Goody tribute magazines?

[Black and White]

Are we all not coloured no? Last time I checked, white was also a colour.

Technically white and balck are not real colours, essentially, black is the essence of all colours and white is the lack of all colours. or is it the other way around!:confused:

[White Horse]

Are we all not coloured no? Last time I checked, white was also a colour.

Yes, and an African-American could be a white South African who emigrates to America.

All these terms are inexact.

[Dodge]

Why would Ndo be called an African American?

[White Horse]

Why would Ndo be called an African American?

Don't know.

I was just pointing out that many of the terms used to describe black people are inexact.

A previous poster was nit-picking the term coloured.

[John83]

Ah for christs sake, it a stupid chant but i doubt even any of the people chanting it knew it was racist. Much like the Pats crowd Dodge mentioned and lets be honest N'do is a lazy, money grabbing, **** and he shouldn't forget it
While I'm loath to overestimate the intelligence of a football crowd, I don't think the average fan is really that thick. I think it's fairer to say that they didn't think it was offensive, but there's a long way between calling someone a lazy, money-grabbing whatever and singing what they sang.

[John83]

Technically white and balck are not real colours, essentially, black is the essence of all colours and white is the lack of all colours. or is it the other way around!:confused:
Depends on whether you're mixing pigments or light. White light has the works, black pigments absorb the works.

[SkStu]

wont someone please think of the Washington Redskins?!?!

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/229/98183-106343-helen-lovejoy_large.jpg

[OneRedArmy]

Perception is reality when it comes to racism.

It's not up to us on foot.ie (assuming we're pretty much all Caucasians) to make assumptions about what should or shouldn't offend somone of a different race.

[Mad Moose]

I remember being at a first division match back in 2004(not involving Sligo Rovers), a guy came on for one of the teams, his second name was Baa Ba. A section of the fans started singing ''Baa Ba black sheep have you any wool'' :rolleyes:.

Aah yes Baba. Left back at Dundalk. I remember him. I think thats just slightly funny and while I would frown upon racism as sheer ignorance I would never consider something like that as been racist. Having read what was said at the outset of this thread I don't consider it racist. Is it a case of us just being too careful because the player is black?. If I used an example of chanting something derogatory in relation to greyhounds and a Derry City player would anyone blink an eye?. I don't think so.

[OneRedArmy]

Aah yes Baba. Left back at Dundalk. I remember him. I think thats just slightly funny and while I would frown upon racism as sheer ignorance I would never consider something like that as been racist. Having read what was said at the outset of this thread I don't consider it racist. Is it a case of us just being too careful because the player is black?. If I used an example of chanting something derogatory in relation to greyhounds and a Derry City player would anyone blink an eye?. I don't think so.The hint is in the worsd "racism" and "racist"...

They don't apply to people of the same race.

It's hardly rocket science.

[Kildareman]

Im sure Ndo is delighted to know his dad is holding down a job in Dublin Zoo while most of the country is unemployed.

[dcfcsteve]

Aah yes Baba. Left back at Dundalk. I remember him. I think thats just slightly funny and while I would frown upon racism as sheer ignorance I would never consider something like that as been racist. Having read what was said at the outset of this thread I don't consider it racist. Is it a case of us just being too careful because the player is black?. If I used an example of chanting something derogatory in relation to greyhounds and a Derry City player would anyone blink an eye?. I don't think so.

You can't be rascist against people from a town... :rolleyes:

Conversely - making jokes to someone Korean about eating dog would be rascist. 'Ha ha - you're Korean, so you must eat dog'.

Similar to 'ha ha, you're black/African - your family must therefore wash elephants'.

It's possibly the sh!ttest attempt at rascism I've heard in some time, but it is an attempt none-the-less.

[sullanefc]

Conversely - making jokes to someone Korean about eating dog would be rascist. 'Ha ha - you're Korean, so you must eat dog'.


Are Man U fans racist when they sing that about Ji Sung Park?

[John83]

Are Man U fans racist when they sing that about Ji Sung Park?
Yes. No less than when Mary O’Rourke said her staff "worked like blacks".

[Dalymountrower]

In fairness to a lot of Rovers fans they have identified it as unacceptable racial abuse. I was simply trying to gauge the reaction without identifying the club or player.

Yeah that was my reference to how a lot of Rovers fans reacted to the racial abuse by their own number of N`do. I suggested a fine for such behaviour not lifetime bans, no official reaction from Rovers of course.
Interesting contrast between reactions to this issue and the oppobrium heaped on Bohs re the Slgo incident