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Angus
21/03/2009, 9:27 PM
I like to be the contrarian in any discussion and all season I have been saying Man U have not played well - to their standard

Having said that I saw them at UP and they were super - but super in terms of control, discipline, passing the ball, defending - and not in terms of creating chance after chance.

They were very good without carving us open - I thought that was down to WH being pretty good that day but even still, they were very good but not explosive in the way they have been

They have been, to use one of my buddies words, gash for the last month, and probably since christmas. They have gotten results without performances for most of the season and the only reason there is focus oin them now is that their continued lacklustre performances are resulting in defeats or near defeats.

So why is this ? 2 reasons - the hairdresser's mind is in madrid and they don't have a dominant centre midfielder. They kind of replaced keane with scholes and tried to with veron and these guys - but scholes is past it and while I am a huge carrick admirer he is a tidy player but not a keane, vieira, essien, alonso, rui costa, etc etc

They are lacking big style in the centre although giggs has been a more than able filler and the hairdresser on the wing is scratching is nads every week

This is a problem - do not kid youirself - results frequently mask crap performances - and at this rate they will win bugger all

Thoughts ?

Denis The Red
21/03/2009, 10:04 PM
I'm a die hard Man U fan and a lot of what you said is true. I'm not pushing the panic button just yet but results and performances of late have been a concern.
I think United have taken a slightly different approach lately in focusing on defence and getting away with 1-0 wins, fine but if you get a team like the scousers who play with one striker and sometimes none at all it's hard to break them down and the midfield is not as solid as previous years, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson are not as you say Keane or Essien or Viera.
Ronaldo is definately gone off the boil and we know why. He was phenomenal last year and deserved his FIFA player of the year but if the guy's head is not where it's supposed to be then it's time to reconsider his place at the club.
After the liverpool match we would have responded with a trashing of Fulham today but it didn't happen, two sending offs, Fulham deserved to win and frustration and petulance all over the place. Maybe Fergie has gone off the boil too.:eek:
These guys would have got a Glasgow shoe up the arse (or in the eye) in the past.

shakermaker1982
21/03/2009, 10:17 PM
Man Utd played 4-3-3 the past two seasons and blew teams away on the counter attack. Fergie brought in Berbatov and since then have more often than not have played 4-4-2 to accomodate the 30 million pound striker. He's had flashes of brilliance this season but a lot of United fans are starting to lose patience with him.

Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo in a front 3 used to panic opposition defences. Throw in the fact that Rooney and Tevez can press all day up top also meant defenders had little time on the ball when in possession. That is no longer the case when the Bulgarian is in the starting lineup because Berbatov doesn't move when Man Utd don't have the ball. The defensive solidity of the past few months (bar Liverpool and Fulham game today) has overshadowed Man Utd's attacking deficiencies this season in some respects.

Ronadlo playing in 2nd gear all season also hasn't helped but I do think that Fergie's formation change has had a detrimental effect on United as an attacking unit. I'm confident Man Utd will turn this bad run of form around and will win the Championship but there is defintely room for improvement. Fergie will have cut loose today but dropping Rooney and Tevez didn't help.

Scholes and Giggs need replacing (the latter has been fantastic this season at times but cannot go on forever) and it will be interesting to see what Fergie does over the next few weeks and months. Anderson has disappointed this season after a very impressive season last year and Nani hasn't done anything of note. Carrick is Carrick.

awec
21/03/2009, 11:56 PM
Ronaldo does my head in. His continual whinging, yapping and strops when he loses the ball are very annoying.

I'm a Liverpool supporter though, so I can sort of live with this annoyance. :D

TheRealMuller
22/03/2009, 12:16 AM
maybe this is just because of the recent run of poor results but united are just not clicking, and i dont think they have done for many games this season.
although of the back of one of their best runs ever, their was alot of games where we jus didnt play well and got a one-nil win, not that i was complaining when we were getting them but not that we arent defending aswel, thats being highlighted.
one of the reason for such poor defending i think is having o'shea in right back, i dont share the view of alot a people that he s a donkey i think he is a very important player for the team but i just think he just not drive forward enough this was highlighted in the liverpool match where he did not play one past forward in the 2nd half and many of his passes actually left rio stranded. when our wing backs our not proforming i think it makes ronaldo and rooneys wide runs easier to defend against.
think united wont kck on again until with solve our right back problem and evra gets confidence back after havin been roasted in the CC final against Lennon, hopefully he gets the nod in front of abidal for france to get him going again.


but hey all is not lost, a hard game for the pool tomo against villa, were still top. its our to lose, and fergie is the master. GGMU!!!

Denis The Red
28/03/2009, 12:30 AM
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5106083,00.html

What do you guys make of this? Looks like Fergie Jnr. is looking for his inheritance already.:D
I hope Sir Alex finishes when he feels it's right and having achieved what he wants, ie. 19 titles before the red scousers do it. Sweet.
For the record, my choice of successor... Jose!!!;)

Denis The Red
05/04/2009, 11:00 PM
Federico Macheda.... you beauty!!!! remember the name folks.

DmanDmythDledge
05/04/2009, 11:03 PM
So why is this ? ...and they don't have a dominant centre midfielder. They kind of replaced keane with scholes and tried to with veron and these guys - but scholes is past it and while I am a huge carrick admirer he is a tidy player but not a keane, vieira, essien, alonso, rui costa, etc etc

They are lacking big style in the centre although giggs has been a more than able filler and the hairdresser on the wing is scratching is nads every week
I'd agree with that. I'm an admirer of Carrick for the same reason as yourself but as you say he will never dominate midfield. If United can get a top class CM they will win another CL with this side. If Essien had signed a couple of years ago rather than going to Chelsea it would have made a huge difference.

SkStu
05/04/2009, 11:04 PM
some game today!!

once they got the equaliser, you could smell the winner coming...

Thought Roanldo was disgraceful all game though. Attitude, arms flailing, not tracking back.

NeilMcD
05/04/2009, 11:05 PM
He was I agree, but I would take that if he scores 2 goals like that when they need it if I was a Man Utd fan.

SkStu
05/04/2009, 11:08 PM
true that.

DeLorean
08/04/2009, 12:13 PM
Which channel is showing Everton v Man Utd in the FA Cup semi. Setanta are showing Arsenal v Chelsea but don't seem to have the other one.

http://www.setanta.com/ie/Our-Sports/Football/FA-Cup/

Armando
08/04/2009, 12:51 PM
FA Cup games on ITV

Lev Yashin
08/04/2009, 1:31 PM
Federico Macheda.... you beauty!!!! remember the name folks.

They almost showed more of him warming up last night than they did of the actual match!!! shocking...still great result!!! :p ;)

old git
08/04/2009, 9:58 PM
They almost showed more of him warming up last night than they did of the actual match!!! shocking...still great result!!! :p ;)

probally one of utd better players last night as well even during his warm up :D: !!

Pious37
28/04/2009, 11:40 AM
Panic Buttons have had the hands over but are now well and truely off. A win against Boro Saturday and we're along way towards our 11th Premier League Title. Brilliant second half against Spurs and one which can buck us up for last few games. Ya the penalty was controversial but we completely outplayed them in the second half. People moaning about the penalty should remember we had a clear penalty decision v Everton the week before but never got it. The saying is true that luck cancels itself out over the season. Anyone any thoughts v Arsenal in Champions League. I reckon if we can keep a clean sheet in our first match at Old Trafford it'll get us to the final - Fingers Crossed. GGMU

DeLorean
28/04/2009, 11:58 AM
Panic Buttons have had the hands over but are now well and truely off. A win against Boro Saturday and we're along way towards our 11th Premier League Title. Brilliant second half against Spurs and one which can buck us up for last few games. Ya the penalty was controversial but we completely outplayed them in the second half. People moaning about the penalty should remember we had a clear penalty decision v Everton the week before but never got it. The saying is true that luck cancels itself out over the season. Anyone any thoughts v Arsenal in Champions League. I reckon if we can keep a clean sheet in our first match at Old Trafford it'll get us to the final - Fingers Crossed. GGMU

I'd like to have at least 2-0 going to The Emirates. I think it will happen as well. United will get stuck into them and keep it tight. I can't see them not scoring a couple of times having seen Arsenal trying to defend at Anfield last week.

DeLorean
14/05/2009, 2:16 PM
Does anybody know how long United have to sort out the Carlos Tevez affair? when does he become fair game?

KK77
14/05/2009, 3:01 PM
Does anybody know how long United have to sort out the Carlos Tevez affair? when does he become fair game?

Think i heard on SSN that they have until May 31st.

Would love to see him at Liverpool and there have been lots of rumours but wouldn't be shocked to see him end up at Man City. Like most footballers it will come down to who offers him the best wage packet.

NeilMcD
14/05/2009, 3:08 PM
He will be at Man Utd next season. I have no doubt about that.

DeLorean
14/05/2009, 3:58 PM
He will be at Man Utd next season. I have no doubt about that.

I'm inclined to agree with you but wouldn't be quite as certain. My biggest fear is that it will turn into a war of words (as it kind of has already) and things may be said that will make the situation more difficult. Also if Tevez doesn't start the Champions League Final he might feel himself that he'd be better off somewhere else.

KK77
14/05/2009, 4:11 PM
I'm inclined to agree with you but wouldn't be quite as certain. My biggest fear is that it will turn into a war of words (as it kind of has already) and things may be said that will make the situation more difficult. Also if Tevez doesn't start the Champions League Final he might feel himself that he'd be better off somewhere else.

Noticed the way Tevez's owner was straight out with a statement refuting what Fergie said straight after the game. War of words could well be right. Boils down to the cash.

gaiscíoch
14/05/2009, 11:11 PM
How the hell has this whole situation evolved? How in god's name can one man own the full rights to a player? It just should not be aloud.
The only thing stalling the Tevez signing is because as Ferguson said he is not negotiating with a club.

Ferguson is however talking out his back side the price to sign Tevz was agreed two years ago? What the problem is I don't know?

If Tevez does leave it's not a disaster. He will be replaced just like Keane, Cantona, Van Nistelrooy and so many others before them.

My own opinion on Tevez is that, while you have to applaud his work rate, there are plenty of other players too who try just as hard and don't get half the praise for a contribution of 5 league goals over 34odd matches? Ivica Olic comes to mind.

old git
15/05/2009, 9:46 AM
How the hell has this whole situation evolved? How in god's name can one man own the full rights to a player? It just should not be aloud.
The only thing stalling the Tevez signing is because as Ferguson said he is not negotiating with a club.

Ferguson is however talking out his back side the price to sign Tevz was agreed two years ago? What the problem is I don't know?

If Tevez does leave it's not a disaster. He will be replaced just like Keane, Cantona, Van Nistelrooy and so many others before them.

My own opinion on Tevez is that, while you have to applaud his work rate, there are plenty of other players too who try just as hard and don't get half the praise for a contribution of 5 league goals over 34odd matches? Ivica Olic comes to mind.

the money quoted for tevez 30 million is to much ... but with ronaldo / berbatov walking around pitch you need a tevez to lift team / supporters the man is 100 % committed on pitch no matter who utd play 34 league matches how many of these did he start or better still how many games did his presence on pitch kick -start utd to win games when struggling / losing :ball:

Denis The Red
16/05/2009, 4:30 PM
Champions again, baby. How many is that scousers fans??? 18. And now on to Rome to retain our Champions league trophy.

old git
16/05/2009, 5:11 PM
Champions again, baby. How many is that scousers fans??? 18. And now on to Rome to retain our Champions league trophy.

deserved to win it over seasons performance but were poor enough today against arsenal today ... typical of ryan giggs ( legend) after the match for preimier league presentation as captain on the day him and club captain gary neville were their to accept trophey giggs ran of to back of celebrating team mates leaving gary neville to acept trophy on his own :ball:

Denis The Red
16/05/2009, 7:34 PM
deserved to win it over seasons performance but were poor enough today against arsenal today ... typical of ryan giggs ( legend) after the match for preimier league presentation as captain on the day him and club captain gary neville were their to accept trophey giggs ran of to back of celebrating team mates leaving gary neville to acept trophy on his own :ball:

Sure enough today's match was no classic but they got the job done and that's really all that matters. Credit to Arsenal for having a go without setting the world on fire (I don't think they're good enough at the minute) but a draw was a fair result imo.
Giggsey is a class act, they'll be talking about him and his achievements for decades to come. With all the talk of Tevez, Berbatov, Ronaldo, how much would Giggs be worth by today's crazy standards when the guy was in his prime?

gustavo
16/05/2009, 8:02 PM
how much would Giggs be worth by today's crazy standards when the guy was in his prime?

Probably the same , Player values haven't changed that much in a decade

Junior
16/05/2009, 9:03 PM
Got a ticket for todays game at Old Trafford.

Tevez had his daughter (I think) on at the start of the game as a mascot of sorts. Stretford end constantly sang 'Fergie Fergie sign him up...Argentina etc...' and there were a lot of waves (goodbye?) on his substitution. He might well be at Man U next year but he didnt look like he was 100% confident.....

Pretty dull affair, Arsenal made it a nervy last 5 minutes for Man U but it was a fair result .

old git
16/05/2009, 9:19 PM
Sure enough today's match was no classic but they got the job done and that's really all that matters. Credit to Arsenal for having a go without setting the world on fire (I don't think they're good enough at the minute) but a draw was a fair result imo.
Giggsey is a class act, they'll be talking about him and his achievements for decades to come. With all the talk of Tevez, Berbatov, Ronaldo, how much would Giggs be worth by today's crazy standards when the guy was in his prime?

fair point arsenal played good football but have nobody to put ball in net for them and utd just did enough to get result :ball:
as for giggsy & scholes to class acts fair play to them to keep hunger / ambition & drive for so long at utd these 2 are the perfect exmples of proffesional players loyal to 1 club and a few other preimership players should try and follow their paths on and off the field :D

DmanDmythDledge
17/05/2009, 1:10 PM
This week has made me love Patrice Evra.

http://i39.tinypic.com/v8imir.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/27x19vt.jpg

De Town
17/05/2009, 1:14 PM
He's quality. Best left back in the world. And rips the **** out of Rafa!

Angus
17/05/2009, 5:19 PM
Having sttarted this thread querying ther credentials I feel the need to repost.

A few thoughts:

They finished the season extremely well
They were very, very lucky against Villa and Spurs
They have the best squad and have the most intellectually honest players (O shea, fletcher, carrick, giggs) all just keep playing football and keep going
They have the best coach
Liverpool are better at their best than Man U at their best
But Man U are better consistently that Liverpool are consistently
Man U have a problem in centre mid - Carrick is a top player but needs a dynamo (a la vieira, keaner, gattuso etc) Anderson may become that player
With Barca missing a few they are favs for the champs league
But Chelsea should have beaten barca out of sight
In summary, this is not a vintage Man U side but they did the simple things well and have the best squad
Next year will be a 3 way race and will partially depend on who buys who in the summer
I saw West Ham against Man U and LIverpool this season and Man U played better football - Liverpool were better than Man U in patches but blow hot and cold
Liverpool will probably sell alonso and desperately, desperately need to replace him
Man U will likely sell the hairdresser and need to replace him, especially if tevez goes - they also need a midfielder
Liverpool need a midfielder, a striker and 2 full backs

gaiscíoch
17/05/2009, 6:08 PM
Liverpool are better at their best than Man U at their best
But Man U are better consistently that Liverpool are consistently


Tell me Sherlock however did you come to that conclusion???

Liverpool a better team than Manchester United are you crazy??:confused:

gustavo
17/05/2009, 6:31 PM
Tell me Sherlock however did you come to that conclusion???

Liverpool a better team than Manchester United are you crazy??:confused:

Might be the small matter of Liverpool beating them twice this season

DmanDmythDledge
17/05/2009, 6:47 PM
Might be the small matter of Liverpool beating them twice this season
There's quite a difference between the two sides at their best, which was the point he was responding to. Clear as day as far as I'm concerned who the better team is.

gaiscíoch
17/05/2009, 7:02 PM
Might be the small matter of Liverpool beating them twice this season

You might just read exactly what I quoted him on.

You must insane or have some sort of vision and hearing impediment to actualy think Liverpool are in any shape or form better than Manchester United at their best?

Honestly? come on now......

NeilMcD
17/05/2009, 8:08 PM
Is that Rafa posting. Rafa did not even have the dignity to congratulate Ferguson as manager. He has gone down in my estimation this season.

Denis The Red
17/05/2009, 8:40 PM
Is that Rafa posting. Rafa did not even have the dignity to congratulate Ferguson as manager. He has gone down in my estimation this season.

I didn't hear. Usually it's a given that managers congratulate and respect each others achievements at the end of the day(usually). For all that went on between Fergie and Wenger they still have professional respect for each other. So far as to have Ferguson defend him against the criticism Wenger has been getting lately.
Was Benitez asked about United winning today?

old git
17/05/2009, 9:02 PM
Might be the small matter of Liverpool beating them twice this season

ok they beat utd twice & chelsea twice this season if they are so much better how come they did not win the league then :confused:
little matter of losing games / points to the weaker teams in division..
so as both spurs & middlesborough beat liverpool in the league this season going by your reckoning then they both must be as good as liverpool then :D

old git
17/05/2009, 9:05 PM
I didn't hear. Usually it's a given that managers congratulate and respect each others achievements at the end of the day(usually). For all that went on between Fergie and Wenger they still have professional respect for each other. So far as to have Ferguson defend him against the criticism Wenger has been getting lately.
Was Benitez asked about United winning today?

as you said above its a given managers congratulate & respect each others achievements so he did not have to be asked could have mentioned in his interview :mad:

DmanDmythDledge
17/05/2009, 10:10 PM
as you said above its a given managers congratulate & respect each others achievements so he did not have to be asked could have mentioned in his interview :mad:
He was quoted as saying that the only difference between Man Utd and Liverpool was that Man Utd can spend loads of money on each player that they buy. Obviously nothing to do with Fergie making better signings than him...

NeilMcD
17/05/2009, 11:09 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8054673.stm

Angus
18/05/2009, 8:55 AM
Tell me Sherlock however did you come to that conclusion???

Liverpool a better team than Manchester United are you crazy??:confused:

I didnt say that - I said that at their best, Liverpool are better than mdy could have lived with Liverpool at home against Real Madrid for example and for 10 minutes against arsenal they were awesome

But they are carrying some passengers and overall man U are better and more consistent

smasher
18/05/2009, 9:18 AM
How come no one speaks of the elephant in the sitting room?
Remember refeering decisions in the Bolton and Spurs games . THAT'S where the league was won!

KK77
18/05/2009, 9:18 AM
Benitez congratulated Man U on winning the league so what more can be said. Think the attack on him from Ferguson and Fat Sam might have something to do with him not congratulating Fergie by name. Just my guess.

shakermaker1982
18/05/2009, 12:32 PM
I've said it before on another thread and I'll say it again.

Man City beat United twice last season but this does not make them a better team. Liverpool bottled it in January and Man Utd proved their credentials (once again) by winning x games on the bounce like champions.

Liverpool have the biggest squad in the Premiership. Fact. If he offloaded all this excess wastage then maybe he could afford to bring in new players on decent wages.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/mar/29/premier-league-huge-squads

62 players.

KK77
18/05/2009, 12:41 PM
The best team wins the league over the season. Don't see the point in arguing over results during the season and squads.

DeLorean
18/05/2009, 12:49 PM
Might be the small matter of Liverpool beating them twice this season

And indeed it turned out to be a small matter


Is that Rafa posting. Rafa did not even have the dignity to congratulate Ferguson as manager. He has gone down in my estimation this season.

I agree. I had a lot of time for Benitez the person before this season. Never liked his style of play or choice of players but at least he seemed gracious in defeat (and victory). He's has come across bitter and jealous this season. The talk about money is just stupid. You don't hear Martin O'Neill saying the only difference between Villa and Liverpool is they have more money. Stupid talk and for the record there hasn't been much between the clubs spending really, both massive amounts since Benitez arrived-

Facts in figures
£221.95m: Manchester United’s gross spend on transfers (£147.90 million net) since June 2004, when Rafael Benítez was appointed Liverpool manager, up to and including January 2009 transfer window
£212.60m: Liverpool’s spending (£111.39 million net) during same period


How come no one speaks of the elephant in the sitting room?
Remember refeering decisions in the Bolton and Spurs games . THAT'S where the league was won!

Yes because it's a fact that United would have drawn/lost both those matches and everybody knows that leagues are won over two matches, not 38. Also if you want to go down that road Bolton had a perfectly good goal disallowed against Liverpool (by the same referee) and Alonso scored from a free kick that never was against Hull. Pointless argument I admit.

DeLorean
18/05/2009, 12:50 PM
The best team wins the league over the season. Don't see the point in arguing over results during the season and squads.

I know that wasn't easy for you Rafa so fair play!!