Man U

[DeLorean]

VDS always struck me as a great team player, seems very odd that Kuszczak would say this even if it was true, unless of course he wants away. I'd say this is closer the truth somehow...

Fergie says Kuszczak was joking (http://goal.com/en/news/9/england/2009/11/06/1608324/manchester-united-goalkeeper-tomasz-kuszczak-was-joking)

[Roo69]

If a players has played in any european competition then they cannot play for another club in europe in the same season. If players are registered but have not played then they can still play for another club.

[Closed Account 2]

Has that changed from last year ? I'm sure Diarra played for Pompey against Vitoria Guimares and then played for Real in the CL against Liverpool...

[KK77]

Has that changed from last year ? I'm sure Diarra played for Pompey against Vitoria Guimares and then played for Real in the CL against Liverpool...

Sorry your right he did indeed play against Liverpool in the CL last season. Played in both games.

[old git]

[QUOTE=old git;1266029]nice one rafa b try and focus some attenion away from liverpool :D

No just thought it was an interesting read.

was an intresting read alright ,, but see ferguson has said it was all tongue in cheek .. but would not expect him to say anything else :D

[John83]

Has that changed from last year ? I'm sure Diarra played for Pompey against Vitoria Guimares and then played for Real in the CL against Liverpool...
Someone said in another thread that a club can register one UEFA Cup player for the CL in January as part of their three allowed changes.

[old git]

chelsea defeat utd..

looking at teams before game i fancied chelsea big time and thought they would overrun utd.
but as it turned out utd dominated chelsea especially in midfield / defence was sound enough anelka / drogba very quiet . rooney was excellent for utd only thing missing was a goal..

referee was very picky on soft frees and 4 big decisions cost utd a win or share of points

1. offside decision in first few mins rooney clearly played on by ashly cole and linesman looking straight at it.
2. valencia penalty claim again linesman looking straight at incident and bottled it
3. fletcher foul on cole for free kick to winni g goal fletcher clearly won ball .
4. winning goal terry flicked on drogba pulled down wes brown and was clearly offside when he attemted to touch ball in on six yard line.. he was in an active offside position and interfering with play :confused: again missed by linesman and referee in a terrible possition 10 yards outside 18 yard box..
utd must be frustrated as they were better team on day ... can somebody explain how anelka got man of the match ???
finally drogba what a cheating playacting tw*T after evans challange he had spasms / leg twitches and i thought chelsea would have to bury him on the pitch :mad: yet he made a miracle recovery to get involved in winning goal he drives me nuts .. chelsea were so negative after they scored the amount of times they tried to waste time was shocking

[CF1989]

united have an awful record against the so called top 4 in recent years. away from home anyway. dominated the game but missing ronaldo big time

[reder]

Deserved something from the game yesterday to be fair. If they keep playing like they did yesterday, they wont be too far off the pace come the end of the season.

[KK77]

Didn't get any of the big decisions from the ref but i suppose got enough over the years so hard to feel sorry for them. Haven't actually got any big decisions since the attack on Wiley. Wonder if Jeff Winter has had a word!!!! Overall they deserved something from the game but didn't thing they created the clear chances being made out. Few decent shots from Rooney outside the box other than that nothing. Thought Fergie would have gone two upfront from the start and had a real go. In days gone by he would have. What's the story with the marking for the goal?? Terry and Anelka both free. I noticed O'Shea going mad over this while others ran to the ref. Do Utd man mark or zonal mark?

[DeLorean]

didn't think they created the clear chances being made out. Few decent shots from Rooney outside the box other than that nothing

Well Rooney's offside would have been a clear cut chance and also the penalty that wasn't.


Thought Fergie would have gone two upfront from the start and had a real go

Was delighted he didn't. He went 2 up front at Anfield and they got completely out muscled by an average Liverpool midfield. Chelsea's midfield is excellent and United dominated them yesterday with the extra man. Berbatov would have been a passenger in that type of game I think. Spot on in my opinion.


Do Utd man mark or zonal mark?

Man mark, usually very effectively seeing as it was their first goal conceded from a set piece. Brown and Evans are only getting used to each other and I think the heads were gone a bit after the ridiculous awarding of the free kick. Should have defended it better though, no doubt.

[KK77]

Well Rooney's offside would have been a clear cut chance and also the penalty that wasn't.


Was delighted he didn't. He went 2 up front at Anfield and they got completely out muscled by an average Liverpool midfield. Chelsea's midfield is excellent and United dominated them yesterday with the extra man. Berbatov would have been a passenger in that type of game I think. Spot on in my opinion.



Man mark, usually very effectively seeing as it was their first goal conceded from a set piece. Brown and Evans are only getting used to each other and I think the heads were gone a bit after the ridiculous awarding of the free kick. Should have defended it better though, no doubt.

That's the way it goes you get a lot of decisions some you don't.

Spot on an average Liverpool midfield dominated them so suppose your right in hindsight a good call by Fergie to spot the weakness of the midfield.

Your right no doubts they should have defended it better. With man marking you have to pick your men up. Should have had their heads on as pros and not be thinking about the ridiculous free kick.

[Roo69]

Your right no doubts they should have defended it better. With man marking you have to pick your men up. Should have had their heads on as pros and not be thinking about the ridiculous free kick.

Spot on ! It was never a free kick in a million years but they should been alert and defended better and marked up their players.

In saying that, there was a foul on Brown and then Drogba was offside and interfering with play as he tried his upmost to conect with the flick on.

These things normally equal themselves out during the course of a season but it is still annoying when they happen to your own team. Rooney clear through on goal but given offside when onside and Valencia been taken down by Terry. On another day it could have been 2 nil United at half time and it would have been a completely different game.

[old git]

united have an awful record against the so called top 4 in recent years. away from home anyway. dominated the game but missing ronaldo big time

any team would miss ronaldo .. but as far as i can remember he always struggled against chelsea and also against the so called top four :ball:

[old git]

Didn't get any of the big decisions from the ref but i suppose got enough over the years so hard to feel sorry for them. Haven't actually got any big decisions since the attack on Wiley. Wonder if Jeff Winter has had a word!!!! Overall they deserved something from the game but didn't thing they created the clear chances being made out. Few decent shots from Rooney outside the box other than that nothing. Thought Fergie would have gone two upfront from the start and had a real go. In days gone by he would have. What's the story with the marking for the goal?? Terry and Anelka both free. I noticed O'Shea going mad over this while others ran to the ref. Do Utd man mark or zonal mark?

i think utd have a bit of a mental block when they play chelsea always get impression fergie puts out teams looking for draws rather than going for wins .. don't think utd have beat chelsea at stamford bridge for over 7 years now.. on chances front chelsea did not create a lot either ..

[gaiscíoch]

That's the way it goes you get a lot of decisions some you don't.

Spot on an average Liverpool midfield dominated them so suppose your right in hindsight a good call by Fergie to spot the weakness of the midfield.

Your right no doubts they should have defended it better. With man marking you have to pick your men up. Should have had their heads on as pros and not be thinking about the ridiculous free kick.


In fairness two of Uniteds defeats have came on the back of two very badly ref'd games.
Should have had a penalty against Carragher v Liverpool. Who also should have been sent off. 1 NIL up half time different game..
Against Chelsea Rooney was never offside and a clear penalty against Terry V Chelsea. get those two decision maybe 2-0 at half time very hard for Chelsea to get back into the game.

We would all love to believe that these things even themselves out but realistically they don't.
As Graeme Souness said on RTE last night.
These officials can see these incidents but decide not to make the decision.
Realistically I don't think United can win the league now well at least it's going to be really hard.

[DeLorean]

Realistically I don't think United can win the league now well at least it's going to be really hard.

It was always going to be hard. There's 78 points to play for and they've Anfield and The Bridge out of the way. Chelsea have already lost at Villa Park and the DW so they're far from unbeatable. It will go all the way again.

[old git]

In fairness two of Uniteds defeats have came on the back of two very badly ref'd games.
Should have had a penalty against Carragher v Liverpool. Who also should have been sent off. 1 NIL up half time different game..
Against Chelsea Rooney was never offside and a clear penalty against Terry V Chelsea. get those two decision maybe 2-0 at half time very hard for Chelsea to get back into the game.

We would all love to believe that these things even themselves out but realistically they don't.
As Graeme Souness said on RTE last night.
These officials can see these incidents but decide not to make the decision.
Realistically I don't think United can win the league now well at least it's going to be really hard.

they say decisions even out over the season if so utd must be due a few after yesterdays match :D:D can anybody explain the so-called rule on stopping play for injuries i thought it was only head injuries ,, yesterday cole & terry collieded and terry took a blow to his n**ts chelsea deceided to play on and referee let them utd broke down attack on edge of thier box and when they went to launch a counter attack referee then deceided to blow game up for attenion to terry ?? yet late in game when giggs and chelsea player clashed heads both went down again chelsea played on and referee let game go on untill utd forced into conceding a throw in a very confusing / frustrating rule ..:confused:

[gaiscíoch]

they say decisions even out over the season if so utd must be due a few after yesterdays match :D:D can anybody explain the so-called rule on stopping play for injuries i thought it was only head injuries ,, yesterday cole & terry collieded and terry took a blow to his n**ts chelsea deceided to play on and referee let them utd broke down attack on edge of thier box and when they went to launch a counter attack referee then deceided to blow game up for attenion to terry ?? yet late in game when giggs and chelsea player clashed heads both went down again chelsea played on and referee let game go on untill utd forced into conceding a throw in a very confusing / frustrating rule ..:confused:


Thing is I don't think the ref's know themselves?
He did it numerous times stopping quick free kicks and stopping advantages.
Carvalho running around with the ball after lashing out on Rooney I think it was- no whistle no card until Johnny Evans came over and lashed out at his leg.
Those two help teams like Chelsea and Liverpool and Stoke etc. but kill sides like Arsenal and United and dare I say City.

Sneaky little push by Valencia aswell to set that up.
Sneaky elbow by John Terry on Valencia before that.
NFL style tackle by Evans on Drogba and Drogba gets booked?
(Deserved it for acting like he was having a seizure)

You hate giving out about refs but in this day and age where they are professional they need to do a better job.
Players get fined, Managers get sacked clubs get religated what do refs get a few games down the lower leagues?

[KK77]

i think utd have a bit of a mental block when they play chelsea always get impression fergie puts out teams looking for draws rather than going for wins .. don't think utd have beat chelsea at stamford bridge for over 7 years now.. on chances front chelsea did not create a lot either ..

Yes 2002 3-0 was the last time. I actually thought it was a poor enough game myself with hardly any clear cut chances. Chelsea had the luck needed and sneaked it as a result. Long way to go but you wouldn't want them getting any futher ahead. Arsenal have to be watched. Win their game in hand and they are two behind. Huge game at the Emirates on November 29.

[DeLorean]

I completely disagree that there's a mental block or anything of the sorts when it comes to Chelsea. United haven't won at Stamford Bridge since 2002, fair enough, but Chelsea have hardly lost there full stop. United often play 5 in midfield in the big PL away games, as well as the away matches in Europe, I don't think it's playing for a draw really, just keeping things tight and hoping to nick it. It annoys me when he does it against teams United are far superior to, but it makes sense against top sides. United have beaten Chelsea the last two seasons at OT, one of which was 3-0 as well as winning the Champions League Final against team, albeit on penalties. There's no mental block, Chelsea have just been very difficult to beat at the Bridge, despite a minor blip last season when they lost to Liverpool and Arsenal.

[KK77]

I completely disagree that there's a mental block or anything of the sorts when it comes to Chelsea. United haven't won at Stamford Bridge since 2002, fair enough, but Chelsea have hardly lost there full stop. United often play 5 in midfield in the big PL away games, as well as the away matches in Europe, I don't think it's playing for a draw really, just keeping things tight and hoping to nick it. It annoys me when he does it against teams United are far superior to, but it makes sense against top sides. United have beaten Chelsea the last two seasons at OT, one of which was 3-0 as well as winning the Champions League Final against team, albeit on penalties. There's no mental block, Chelsea have just been very difficult to beat at the Bridge, despite a minor blip last season when they lost to Liverpool and Arsenal.

More of a case of not get beat?

[OwlsFan]

Players get fined, Managers get sacked clubs get religated what do refs get a few games down the lower leagues?

The thing is that refereeing is an impossible task especially nowadays with slow motions showing every incident from every possible angle. With so many decisions being shown to be wrong in every game, then it can't be the referees' fault. It has to be the nature of the game. The ref has only one pair of eyes and one look at the incident. The linesmen are 90% of the time watching for offside (another almost impossible task trying to look two places at the one time) so they don't see many of the incidents.

I would love to see Ferguson, Allardyce, Bruce, ANdy Gray etc try to ref a serious game and see how many decision they get right.

That said, if the ref gives France a peno, let's hang, draw and quarter him.

[DeLorean]

More of a case of not get beat?

I think Ferguson always expects United to score, so by keeping it tight at the other end it obviously give them a great chance of nicking games. United were far better with one up front against Chelsea than they were with two against Liverpool, and came much closer to winning the game. I don't think it's just a case of not getting beat, he just puts out a side with a system that he feels is more likely to nick the game.

[KK77]

I think Ferguson always expects United to score, so by keeping it tight at the other end it obviously give them a great chance of nicking games. United were far better with one up front against Chelsea than they were with two against Liverpool, and came much closer to winning the game. I don't think it's just a case of not getting beat, he just puts out a side with a system that he feels is more likely to nick the game.

Do you think it's time to call time on Giggs? Thought he was very poor on Sunday.

[DeLorean]

Do you think it's time to call time on Giggs? Thought he was very poor on Sunday.

I think it's a bad sign that he has become one of United's key players this season. He really is at the stage where he should be used sparingly from the bench or in the easier league games. Two years ago this was the case and it shows that United have gone back a nice bit to say that he's become more important. He's had a good start to the season overall though but I would hope that Tosic or even Obertan would give us more from the left. I don't mind him being there as a squad player to answer your question.

[old git]

The thing is that refereeing is an impossible task especially nowadays with slow motions showing every incident from every possible angle. With so many decisions being shown to be wrong in every game, then it can't be the referees' fault. It has to be the nature of the game. The ref has only one pair of eyes and one look at the incident. The linesmen are 90% of the time watching for offside (another almost impossible task trying to look two places at the one time) so they don't see many of the incidents.

I would love to see Ferguson, Allardyce, Bruce, ANdy Gray etc try to ref a serious game and see how many decision they get right.

That said, if the ref gives France a peno, let's hang, draw and quarter him.

fair enough point but i dont think linesmen have the b*lls to help out referee's on big decisions and on the offside how many times have linesmen got it badly wrong... maybe it is time for video technology to help them out 4th officall could watch and pass verdict back to refs.. :ball:

[DeLorean]

I just hope it doesn't go pear shaped for the poor guy again....

Hargreaves (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/1111/hargeaveso.html)

[KK77]

Nani has put his Manchester United future in doubt by accusing Sir Alex Ferguson of wrecking his confidence.
The under-fire winger has complained that Ferguson's policy of rotation has undermined him and described his shock at being on the receiving end of the Scot's infamous 'hairdryer' treatment.

"People expect more from me and it's not easy. But they are also not doing what they said they were going to," Nani was quoted as saying by Portuguese newspaper 'I'. "I know it would be better if I scored more goals.

"I can have a spectacular game but nobody guarantees me I will be starting the next match. It shatters your confidence. I did not play the important matches, against Liverpool, Manchester City or Tottenham. Not playing these games, I am a bit sad. But for now I am not considering leaving."

Nani also revealed he continues to struggle to understand Ferguson's management methods and has had to suffer the Scot's 'hairdryer'.

"He is a very complicated guy," said Nani. "If things are OK, he will be OK, but if there is anything he believes to be wrong, you are screwed. He can go from complimenting you to just plain trashing in a couple of minutes.

"And it is always with **** this and **** that. No one is safe on the pitch. Even Ryan Giggs and Gary Neville get it, but it takes longer with them because they are more experienced."

[DeLorean]

He'd be well advised to keep his mouth shut I'd say if it's more games he's after. Plenty of competition for his spot with Obertan, Giggs and Tosic available to play there.

[rambler14]

Nani has put his Manchester United future in doubt by accusing Sir Alex Ferguson of wrecking his confidence.
The under-fire winger has complained that Ferguson's policy of rotation has undermined him and described his shock at being on the receiving end of the Scot's infamous 'hairdryer' treatment.

"People expect more from me and it's not easy. But they are also not doing what they said they were going to," Nani was quoted as saying by Portuguese newspaper 'I'. "I know it would be better if I scored more goals.

"I can have a spectacular game but nobody guarantees me I will be starting the next match. It shatters your confidence. I did not play the important matches, against Liverpool, Manchester City or Tottenham. Not playing these games, I am a bit sad. But for now I am not considering leaving."

Nani also revealed he continues to struggle to understand Ferguson's management methods and has had to suffer the Scot's 'hairdryer'.

"He is a very complicated guy," said Nani. "If things are OK, he will be OK, but if there is anything he believes to be wrong, you are screwed. He can go from complimenting you to just plain trashing in a couple of minutes.

"And it is always with **** this and **** that. No one is safe on the pitch. Even Ryan Giggs and Gary Neville get it, but it takes longer with them because they are more experienced."

I'll drive you to the airport myself if you leave in January because no matter what you say Nani you are CRAP!

[shakermaker1982]

Nice knowing you Nani.....

Obertan is probably ahead of him in the pecking order now so United just need somebody like Spurs or Newcastle (if they go up) to come in and buy him and really finish him off!

[old git]

Nani has put his Manchester United future in doubt by accusing Sir Alex Ferguson of wrecking his confidence.
The under-fire winger has complained that Ferguson's policy of rotation has undermined him and described his shock at being on the receiving end of the Scot's infamous 'hairdryer' treatment.

"People expect more from me and it's not easy. But they are also not doing what they said they were going to," Nani was quoted as saying by Portuguese newspaper 'I'. "I know it would be better if I scored more goals.

"I can have a spectacular game but nobody guarantees me I will be starting the next match. It shatters your confidence. I did not play the important matches, against Liverpool, Manchester City or Tottenham. Not playing these games, I am a bit sad. But for now I am not considering leaving."

Nani also revealed he continues to struggle to understand Ferguson's management methods and has had to suffer the Scot's 'hairdryer'.

"He is a very complicated guy," said Nani. "If things are OK, he will be OK, but if there is anything he believes to be wrong, you are screwed. He can go from complimenting you to just plain trashing in a couple of minutes.

"And it is always with **** this and **** that. No one is safe on the pitch. Even Ryan Giggs and Gary Neville get it, but it takes longer with them because they are more experienced."

i just thought it was him playing sh**te that ruined his confidence :D:D

[Acornvilla]

obertan looks like a cass player in the making world player of the year 2013 You heard it here first :D

[old git]

obertan looks like a cass player in the making world player of the year 2013 You heard it here first :D

what is a cass player :D:D bit early to be tipping a player for an award in 3-4 years .. will he still be at utd when he wins it !!

[Acornvilla]

what is a cass player :D:D bit early to be tipping a player for an award in 3-4 years .. will he still be at utd when he wins it !!
a player who eh..
in general exudes..
eh...... classiness??

[roinuj]

Nani has put his Manchester United future in doubt by accusing Sir Alex Ferguson of wrecking his confidence.
The under-fire winger has complained that Ferguson's policy of rotation has undermined him and described his shock at being on the receiving end of the Scot's infamous 'hairdryer' treatment.

"People expect more from me and it's not easy. But they are also not doing what they said they were going to," Nani was quoted as saying by Portuguese newspaper 'I'. "I know it would be better if I scored more goals.

"I can have a spectacular game but nobody guarantees me I will be starting the next match. It shatters your confidence. I did not play the important matches, against Liverpool, Manchester City or Tottenham. Not playing these games, I am a bit sad. But for now I am not considering leaving."

Nani also revealed he continues to struggle to understand Ferguson's management methods and has had to suffer the Scot's 'hairdryer'.

"He is a very complicated guy," said Nani. "If things are OK, he will be OK, but if there is anything he believes to be wrong, you are screwed. He can go from complimenting you to just plain trashing in a couple of minutes.

"And it is always with **** this and **** that. No one is safe on the pitch. Even Ryan Giggs and Gary Neville get it, but it takes longer with them because they are more experienced."


even my nanny is better then him:D and shes 92

[old git]

a player who eh..
in general exudes..
eh...... classiness??

not alot of classiness on view against besiktas midweek :D:D looked like he had a lot of tricks but seemed to lack confidence to take full back on and his final cross was poor.. probally did not help that utd were sh**e on the night also .

[razor]

Giggs was again immense on Saturday, I thought Rooney dived for the first penalty, was heading down before the minimal contact.
Kuszczak was unreal, that save from Utaka at the end was like Gordon Banks.

[old git]

Giggs was again immense on Saturday, I thought Rooney dived for the first penalty, was heading down before the minimal contact.
Kuszczak was unreal, that save from Utaka at the end was like Gordon Banks.

excellent game by giggs ... but still a poor team performance by utd cannot understand why they play rooney upfront on his own against a team bottom of the league and leaking goals ... brown caught rooney for penalty ( but he did go down fairly easy seems to be common now in preimership) utd were very poor in defense 1st half portsmouth had 3 good chances and probally should have been ahead at half time.. kuszczak made a couple of great saves during game and looked impressive during game must give fergie some thought now on choice of no 2 keeper now ... portsmouth penalty showed how hard it is for referee to give decisions now :eek: took at least 3-4 action replays before you spotted vidic pulling shirt having said that it happens every game in preimer ship and if referee's were so brave every game we would have 3-4 penaltys a game

[ATFC-1887]

gael kakuta is way better than obertan and he is only 17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKSV9O4J0bI&feature=related

[gaiscíoch]

gael kakuta is way better than obertan and he is only 17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKSV9O4J0bI&feature=related


I suppose that is why he is still in the Chelsea reserve side?
Have you actually ever watched a Youth or Reserve match in England.
I have and they are for the most part a brutal standard.
The only good Youth game I have seen this year was Wolves Vs United
Watched Obertans first match and he stuck out like a sore thumb.
Not only because he is brutally ugly but because he was miles better than all the players on display.
Has not been seen in the reserve side since.

[Acornvilla]

I suppose that is why he is still in the Chelsea reserve side?
Have you actually ever watched a Youth or Reserve match in England.
I have and they are for the most part a brutal standard.
The only good Youth game I have seen this year was Wolves Vs United
Watched Obertans first match and he stuck out like a sore thumb.
Not only because he is brutally ugly but because he was miles better than all the players on display.
Has not been seen in the reserve side since.
Kakuta made his first team debut last weekend my friend so technicly hes in the first team squad also and will be there when mikel,essien,kalou and drogba go. expect to see more of sturrage and di santo aswell as possibly clifford and stoch when that happens

[old git]

Kakuta made his first team debut last weekend my friend so technicly hes in the first team squad also and will be there when mikel,essien,kalou and drogba go. expect to see more of sturrage and di santo aswell as possibly clifford and stoch when that happens

could be a long wait for mikel, essien, kalou. drogba to go :ball:
but why are we talking about chelsea players on a man utd thread :confused:

[Acornvilla]

could be a long wait for mikel, essien, kalou. drogba to go :ball:
but why are we talking about chelsea players on a man utd thread :confused:
go as in african nations cup mate :rolleyes: its on over december if you havent heard. and i suppose chelsea players have an affect on the fortunes of united so we can chat about them here too sure it has to be done somewhere

[shakermaker1982]

Obertan does look a prospect and has impressed me every time I've seen him in action.

Big game for Gibson tonight.

[old git]

go as in african nations cup mate :rolleyes: its on over december if you havent heard. and i suppose chelsea players have an affect on the fortunes of united so we can chat about them here too sure it has to be done somewhere

apologies i assumed you ment when they go the end of their chelsea career's ... yes i have heard of african nations cup it actually starts on 10th january 2010 :rolleyes: big blow to chelsea losing players but really only 2 first team regulars drogba & essien and the way they are playing at the moment they may have a big lead in preimership come january :ball:

[Acornvilla]

apologies i assumed you ment when they go the end of their chelsea career's ... yes i have heard of african nations cup it actually starts on 10th january 2010 :rolleyes: big blow to chelsea losing players but really only 2 first team regulars drogba & essien and the way they are playing at the moment they may have a big lead in preimership come january :ball:
i bow to you knowledge of the callender oh great one:D

[old git]

i bow to you knowledge of the callender oh great one:D

years of experience & knowledge gathered over the years .. i don't need no callender :mad: truthfully i read about starting date in one of the papers over the weekend :D

[razor]

( but he did go down fairly easy seems to be common now in preimership)Agree, this form of cheating is becoming all too common in todays game as a whole not just the Premiership. I think the question should be asked could the player have proceeded despite the contact, I think in most cases the answer is yes. Its almost become acceptable for a player to "go down easy", it saddens and angers me.