FAI Fans Forum - 4th April

[A face]

FAI Fans Forum on 4th April. Make sure that your club has representatives there. Try and enough that the fans will give a report back to other fans in your club.

If you have any suggestions, ideas, issues, etc. pass them onto the reps to raise on your behalf. More info on this soon.

[tiktok]

FAI Fans Forum on 4th April. Make sure that your club has representatives there. Try and enough that the fans will give a report back to other fans in your club.

If you have any suggestions, ideas, issues, etc. pass them onto the reps to raise on your behalf. More info on this soon.

A Face, who would attend this on behalf of City? CCSC?

[tiktok]

I hope we can make an effort this time

We should ask the questions like why were Drogs and Cork not punished

Drogs and Cork were punished, they each had ten point deductions applied, ultimately costing Cork City a place in Europe.

[Mr A]

Drogs and Cork were punished, they each had ten point deductions applied, ultimately costing Cork City a place in Europe.

Slap on the wrists rather than a proper punishment.

[micls]

Slap on the wrists rather than a proper punishment.

Then the question should be why werent we relegated etc, not why werent we punished. There was a punishment, whether you agree with the severity of it or not is another matter.

[pete]

Any chance the FAI will release an Agenda for the Forum in advance?

[A face]

A Face, who would attend this on behalf of City? CCSC?

Dublin based fans on behalf of CCSC and hopefully a board member of FORAS.


Any chance the FAI will release an Agenda for the Forum in advance?

Trying to organise this

[Hairy Bowsie]

It'd be nice if this time around more fans were willing to actually grill the FAI than try to crawl up their hole, as what happened the last 2 times.

[MariborKev]

No better man than yourself HB.........

[Hairy Bowsie]

No better man than yourself HB.........

If i can swing it, i'll go but the last time i had a confrontation/agruement with a member of FAI my club got fined by the FAI. So there may just be a better man than me.

[Drogman.]

FAI Fans Forum on 4th April. Make sure that your club has representatives there. Try and enough that the fans will give a report back to other fans in your club.

If you have any suggestions, ideas, issues, etc. pass them onto the reps to raise on your behalf. More info on this soon.

Where will this be on?

Also can anyone go along or do you have to submit details of who will be attending?

[Dodge]

Any chance the FAI would advertise this? There's more than foot.ie readers around the league

[A face]

Where will this be on?

Abbotstown


Also can anyone go along or do you have to submit details of who will be attending?

No, not for everyone to come along. Its just representatives of each club. Generally its people from the supporters clubs, people who will relay the message to other fans.


Any chance the FAI would advertise this? There's more than foot.ie readers around the league

Representatives have been contacted already, so there is no need to advertise. The reason i am posting it is because some clubs weren't represented at the last few, so just highlighting that.

Also, and probably the most important thing is for fans to collate their questions and give them to their clubs reps to pose on their behalf.

[Dodge]

Representatives have been contacted already, so there is no need to advertise. The reason i am posting it is because some clubs weren't represented at the last few, so just highlighting that.



Representatives of who? Seems like a select few supporters clubs. Certainly isn't all supporters' clubs, never mind all supporters

[Enruoblehs]

Will those who were not notified of the last one, - but found out about it, attended and gave their contact details - be notified of this one?

Also, if I'm not mistaken, there was talk of the next forum being somewhere other than Dublin????

[Drogman.]

Abbotstown



No, not for everyone to come along. Its just representatives of each club. Generally its people from the supporters clubs, people who will relay the message to other fans.



Representatives have been contacted already, so there is no need to advertise. The reason i am posting it is because some clubs weren't represented at the last few, so just highlighting that.

Also, and probably the most important thing is for fans to collate their questions and give them to their clubs reps to pose on their behalf.

Right and my next question is, how does one get to attend if not contacted already?

I'm only asking as our supporters club is fairly new so I didn't expect to be contacted, but how can I advise the FAI that we'd like to attend?

[Battery Rover]

Contact Noel Mooney he will sort it out for you

[A face]

Representatives of who? Seems like a select few supporters clubs. Certainly isn't all supporters' clubs, never mind all supporters

Dodge, if you were organising it, how would go about inviting people?


Will those who were not notified of the last one, - but found out about it, attended and gave their contact details - be notified of this one?

If you gave your contact details then i'd imagine so.


Also, if I'm not mistaken, there was talk of the next forum being somewhere other than Dublin????

I dunno man, this one is in Dublin anyway.


Right and my next question is, how does one get to attend if not contacted already?

I'm only asking as our supporters club is fairly new so I didn't expect to be contacted, but how can I advise the FAI that we'd like to attend?

Maybe contact your club CPO for details. Do you know if your club was represented the last time? Noel Mooney is organising, maybe drop him a mail on noel.mooney@fai.ie

[Dodge]

Dodge, if you were organising it, how would go about inviting people?


First thing I'd do is advertise it on the LOI website. I'd contact the clubs and ask them to advertise it on their websites. And, of course, I'd contact those supporters clubs I've dealt with in the past

[Longfordian]

What's the point of them anyway?. Did anything constructive come out of the last one, as in were any of the ideas put forward actually implemented?.

[A face]

First thing I'd do is advertise it on the LOI website. I'd contact the clubs and ask them to advertise it on their websites. And, of course, I'd contact those supporters clubs I've dealt with in the past

Thats what has been done. There are some clubs without a supporters club so thats why i posted this.

[Buile Shuibhne]

Abbotstown



No, not for everyone to come along. Its just representatives of each club. Generally its people from the supporters clubs, people who will relay the message to other fans.



Representatives have been contacted already, so there is no need to advertise. The reason i am posting it is because some clubs weren't represented at the last few, so just highlighting that.


No Shels fans / supporters groups or the club itself, were contacted about these fans forums for the previous 2 years. We ended up inviting ourselves both times despite the FAI been given contact details.

We expect to be ignored again :D

[Dodge]

Thats what has been done. There are some clubs without a supporters club so thats why i posted this.

I know thats been done. Thats why I stuck in the "of course" bit. I didn't want some pedant asking why I wouldn't have contacted the supporters clubs...

I know its not your job a face, and I'm not having a go at you but surely if the FAI were serious about getting input from fans they'd make the effort to inform as many of them as possible

[LeixlipRed]

It's very difficult to remember to invite every single club in the league. There are a whole 22 of them. Or maybe the secretary who sends out the invites isn't aware of this fact.

[Sam_Heggy]

It's very difficult to remember to invite every single club in the league. There are a whole 22 of them. Or maybe the secretary who sends out the invites isn't aware of this fact.


Please tell me thats a sarcastic comment.

[John83]

I'm pretty sure it was sarcastic.

[Sam_Heggy]

I'm pretty sure it was sarcastic.

You can never be too sure when it comes to the FAI. :)

[Hairy Bowsie]

As bad as the FAI are you could easily be sure on this. Now if you'd have said you can never be sure when you've the brain capacity of a mouse, that'd have been more apt.

[Tis-smeee]

This saturday

Who's attending ?

Knowing that Mooney fella half the clubs probably werent informed:eek:

Who's going ? Im gonna try

[Battery Rover]

Myself Ash and two other lads heading from Athlone

[Martinho II]

myself and ltfc2004 are heading down too..no massop10 this time as he is playing a match..

[Drogman.]

This saturday

Who's attending ?

Knowing that Mooney fella half the clubs probably werent informed:eek:

Who's going ? Im gonna try

I'm going along and actually to put your mind at ease, Noel rang me yesterday afternoon to give me the details on time and agenda.

So fair play to him :D

[The Lep]

I'll be going

[A face]

Hopefully 2-3 Cork City fans going to it

[John83]

No volunteers so far from UCD fans. Most of the reliables are either out of the country or disillusioned with these fans' forums.

[LeixlipRed]

or disillusioned with these fans' forums.

How so? No triangular sambos? :( :D

[Dodge]

Apparently I'm going to this now

Anyone able to give me directions (from anywhere you like in Dublin). Haven't a clue where it is!

[pete]

Anyone able to give me directions (from anywhere you like in Dublin). Haven't a clue where it is!

Probably too late now but its next to the National Aquatic Centre. If driving from Blanchardstown/Navan Road its the right next right you pass the NAC. i.e. field with hut with long road behind it - you can't see Sports Campus from the road. Look from the Sports Campus sign.

[John83]

How so? No triangular sambos? :( :D
If I remember right, the sandwiches were triangular O'Briens jobs last year and a bunch of us agreed that the plain old hang and cheese spread the GAA would have put on was one of those areas where our stick fighting friends had the upper hand.

Any word from this?

[Ash]

There was no sandwiches! Tough times in Irish football :-(

[MariborKev]

OneRedArmy's report on the Derry site

"It was an interesting session, lots of facts, and very comprehensive presentations from
Fran Gavin - League Director
Padraig Smith - Compliance Director
Regina Coppinger - Licensing Manager
Michael Hayes - Operations Manager
Noel Mooney - Marketing Manager
Mark Bradley - Football League Customer Experience Consultant

It went on for over 5 hours, so I've tried to summarise key messages and interesting info maybe not in the public domain previously. Kev can fill in the blanks!

Fran Gavin
- Looking to move U20 to U19 to increase gap between A league.
- €280k to win Premier, €130k 2nd.
- FAI Cup venue undecided. RDS, Tallaght, Turners Cross and other being considered.
- Inform web-based system for fixtures, registration, disciplinary, match reports has been rolled out. It includes a referees portal. Ref gets match info pre-match and submits report online afterwards.
- New rule on club colours. All 3 kits must be so different they could be used in a match against each other. Club kit database distributed to all clubs. All clubs must travel with two kits.
- Match delegate at every game reports on behaviour of fans, stewards, manager, medical, adherence to security, promotions, marketing & licensing.
As an aside the attendees were told that PSG wrote to UEFA and FAI and said Derry fans were the best away fans they'd ever hosted.

Michael Hayes
- The new Europa League set-up is not yet finalised, including coefficient points and consequently seedings, despite what you read elsewhere (Bert Kassies site is wrong)
- FAI is much less tolerant of clubs changing fixtures mid-season unless well-justified.

Regina Coppinger - Licensing
- Licensing Committee has outside expertise. Legal, financial and other sports. Licensing process is confidential.
- All players must have an ECG on record, all UEFA players a more advanced echocardiogram.
CIDP - 5 year plan for infrastructure development that MUST be updated annually and supported by evidence.
- 23 groundsmen, 140 event controllers, 600 stewards have been trained.

Noel Mooney - marketing and the customer experience.
- Clubs are working with Feargal Quinn (Superquinn founder and renowned expert in delivering quality customer experience), Mark Bradley & Huddersfield Town chairman to improve customer experience.
- The club CPO has a remit to build links with schools and other community groups and build long-term links in the community.
- Noel is focusing a lot of time on viral marketing and online targeted marketing through central database.
- TV coverage, live games & MNS are viewed as being crucial to the marketing of the league and making this as professional as possible. Constantly re-iterated that the FAI lost millions in the Irish international TV rights deal by insisting on prime time LoI programme.
- LoI.ie website has been completely revamped. Should be regularly visited by all supporters. Lots of multimedia content, including LoI TV.

Mark Bradley - Football League Customer Service Advisor
- Clubs can't rely on diehards. They are not bothered by poor customer service, they accepted it long ago.
Mark and his family go undercover at matches, from various perspectives and then report back to club management.
- Families are v important. 12% increase in families in the Football League over the last year.
- Key to this are helpful staff (especially stewards), food prices and quality, and a positive stadium environment
- Derry City are a pilot club for an undercover visit, which will then be reported back to the club.

Noel also provided an update on progress on actions suggested at last fans forum. The following recommendations were actually followed through on:
More local marketing
Consistency on fixtures
Mobile food vending
Availability of LoI patches to clubs
Database of young fans - database there, Data Protection issues for under-18s

Padraig Smith - Compliance Officer
Combined losses across the LoI down by 50% to €3.3m
6 profitable clubs, 5 with a loss of less than 50k.
Target of overall breakeven
7 budgets rejected from 3 clubs this season for various reasons including:
No debt reduction strategy in place
No Revenue repayment schedule
A projected 6 figure unfunded loss.
- Examinership - the law allows it, so the FAI can't stop clubs availing of it. Sanctions are in line with European rules. 10pts deduction plus sliding scale depending on what they paid back their creditors. 70 day rule for court protection, so if clubs go into examinership at the end of the season, the sanctions applied next season. Can't be an easy option for clubs.
- New rules on non-payment of player wages, transfer/loan payments, wage cuts during season. Sanctions to stop all transfers.
- Aim for clubs to operate debt free on operational expenditure (i.e. wages). Capital Expenditure is treated differently to opex if clubs are borrowing to improve stadia this is obviously different to borrowing to pay wages.
- The Salary Cost Protocol has resulted in drop in overall losses. Directors loans now need to be sponsorship to count for SCP, they can't be taken back out. 4 clubs breached it during last season. Transfer bans in place at all 4 until resolved.
- 2010 SCP will include mgt. and coaching. Youth exemption for home-grown players, so their salaries won't count in the SCP for one or two seasons. Incentive to bring people through the youths.
The aim of the SCP and the financial controls is to move beyond paying the players as the only financial goals of clubs.
Work ongoing on measuring Return on Investment from your spending on players (wages and transfer fees) v other spend (youth, marketing). Strong evidence that spending on wages doesn't equate to success. There is a poor correlation between spending and success in LOI compared with other Leagues (so if you rank the clubs from top to bottom on wages versus League position the correlation is poor when compared with elsewhere).
- Highlighted that as LoI are often forced sellers to English clubs, they don't realise the real value of players they sell. It was pointed out that the COMBINED transfer fees of all the top players with senior and underage caps from Kevin Doyle onwards (including McGinn and McCourt), was less than Wolves paid for Ade Akinbiyi in 1999 (£3.5m).
- Highlighted that a number of clubs are building "warchests" over the next few seasons to be able to access matched Government grants whenever the economy improves and capital funding becomes available again."

On a personal level, I thought the turnout was disappointing. Off the top of my head there were fans from

Derry
Shels
Wexford
Cork
Longford
Athlone
Rovers
Bray
Dundalk
Kildare
Fingal
Athlone
Limerick


There may have been one or two others but and people such as Sligo can be excepted as they had a game. There is no point moaning about what they FAI are/aren't doing if you don't turn up and ask the questions when given the opportunity!

[sullanefc]

Managers and coaches salaries being included in the 65% wage cap next year is interesting. This would impact Bohs it would seem. Good move IMO.

Tallaght being considered as a cup final venue is a bit silly given its capacity. RDS is the obvious choice, TX would be too small as well. Edit: Thomond should be considered.

The marketing stuff is all well and good, but quality facilities and quality on the pitch is what draws the crowds.

Is there any section where the quality of referees can be discussed? Rules for appealing cards etc?

[Martinho II]

maribor thats an excellent summary of the day. the most impressive speaker in my opinion was the fellow from huddersfield town he had great things to say about our league. bit disappointed there was no sandwiches. The forum was supposed to start at ten but it only started at quarter to eleven and ended at quarter past three.

The attendance was shocking bad.. Monaghan Utd had a representive at it .But the other clubs didnt have any excuses. Myself Ash and Battery Rover had matches to go to and I still arrived in Waterford in plenty of time for our game. Alan Kearns couldnt make it but I thought a few more sligo lads could have bein there they still would have made it in time for their game.One of our lads asked considering that not all clubs sent reps would it be ok for any club to bring more than three reps to the next forum and they said yes.

I was very disappointed that my question on Cobh Ramblers wasnt answered as due to confidentaility they couldnt discuss it. What a joke that is.But otherwise it was great seeing the familiar faces especially pablo who i hadnt seen in a few years

[Sheridan]

As usual, solid and helpful answers from everyone else and a lot of vague, meaningless platitudes from Noel Mooney.

[Martinho II]

As usual, solid and helpful answers from everyone else and a lot of vague, meaningless platitudes from Noel Mooney.

didnt realise you were at it sheridan where were you sitting?? noel mooney didnt allow for any questions to be asked as i had one ready for him,..

[LeixlipRed]

Wonder why Bohs sent no one? :)

[Sheridan]

didnt realise you were at it sheridan where were you sitting?? noel mooney didnt allow for any questions to be asked as i had one ready for him,..
Wasn't at it (don't imagine they'd allow knights errant :D), I'm just going from the précis above and his record in the job.

[Dodge]

I was due to go but family stuff cropped up at last minute

Thanks for the rundown

[pete]

FAI Cup Final - As this is the last season before new stadium I think they are actively looking at venue outside Dublin as an option. Some talk about under age competition run on the same weekend & location as the Cup Final.

Salary Protocol - From 2010 they may introduce rule that players developed from clubs under age structure don't have their wages included in the 65% rule so a set number of seasons. There will be report published later this year on club finances in the LOI. Padraig Smith spoke a lot about of inability of clubs to link expenditure on players with return on investment. Said that clubs selling players will always get poor value, need to get foreign clubs to buy (i.e. LOI clubs not desperate to sell). Wanted to see clubs saving money for future projects - only 1 clubs currently has a sinking fund. Easier to get government grants when economy picks up if can prove have been saving money.

Mark Bradley - Consultant to the Football League who will similar campaign to one he ran for the Football League. With 4 pilot clubs (Derry, Fingal, Pats, Shamrock Rovers) will pick newbie families to attend game & report on experience with set list of questions. Focused on key aim of keeping new customers/fans i.e. no use getting new people in the gate if the experience is rubbish.

RTE - Will run a Fantasy Football competition on their web site. No set launch date as in discussions.

Licencing - This was linked to improved facilities. Easier to get grants will long term plans & better run clubs.

No sandwiches but had mini cakes.

[Magicme]

Mark Bradley has met with the CPO's on a few occasions now and is very much involved in helping to raise the level of customer services within clubs.

It is important, especially when things are tight financially in the country, that we can be seen as a "Value for money" entertainment package for families.

Wish I could have gone along but Barry who was there for us is a true fan of the club who can see the faults from the outside and was a more objective person to send.