View Full Version : Shame on CCFC...
It really looks like CCFC will be the cause of inflation in eircom league players saleries. Three players on the bones of €6,000 a week, and to make that public...
Look at Pat Dolan's legacy at St. Pat's and ye are giving it loads about the new super-power in the South. Take a step back and realise that if Shelbourne and Bohs are to keep the same squad , the squad will have to take a 30% wage cut. In general there is a deflation in players value and earning potiential and off go CCFC and fat Pat to buck a current trend, something with has to happen. I can understand JOF and GOC commanding the rumoured cash, but an slightly above average Neil Fenn, I ask you...
One player, we were speaking to for a while introduced an agent, and the agent went €950 pw (52 week)... he was told to ****-off... he came back and significantly lowered his demands... no player should hold an eL club to ransom, Fenn did and got what he wanted... a big €10,000 (per season, I heard) signing on fee...
thecorner
05/12/2003, 10:45 AM
we can afford
ye cant
get over it
ccfc-first eircom league team to reach the champions league proper
its all geared up towards this
liamon
05/12/2003, 10:56 AM
Where is all this talk about players earning 2,000 a week coming from? I'd be surprised if any CCFC players are on more than 1200 p.w/ 52 weeks p.a.
I'd be especially surprised if Fenn has ben offered that sort of money.
Originally posted by thecorner
we can afford
ye cant
get over it
ccfc-first eircom league team to reach the champions league proper
its all geared up towards this
Blah, blah, Big Club blah, blah - Bohs circa 2001, anyone?
EireBadBoy
05/12/2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Macy
Blah, blah, Big Club blah, blah - Bohs circa 2001, anyone?
I remember it well!!! :D
tiktok
05/12/2003, 12:40 PM
Xlex, where are you pulling these figures from?
Fenn told Pats (according to Dodge, no reason to doubt it) that city had offered him 10000 a year sign on, there's a very good chance he was lying in the hopes Pats would bump whatever they were offering. I doubt he's on 2000 a week.
I doubt any city player is on more than 12-1300 a week, maybe they have a win bonus structure that perks it up a bit, but that only compares with what Bohs and Shels are paying their best players. We have the home gates / merchandising / sponsorship to pay bigger wages now but Brian Lennox is a smart businessman and he's not going to let city pay a player more than he's worth to the club.
Think it's a ludicrous comparison anyway, but totally ill-founded.... United aren't near top payers in the EPL, despite highest gates, merchandising etc. That's why MUFC plc turns in the profits it does...
Shame on the those that are so quick to have a go at CCFC, that they can't get their feet out their mouths fast enough to utter complete bullsh*t when they hear the latest rumour flying around......:rolleyes:
Conor, forget about the muck over the water... I wouldn't even compare anything with the stupid wages over there... but if you do, just look at how inflated wages which the top three pay and how some lesseer clubs have fell to the depths of administration after relegation.
Basically when Shels and Bohs were looking at reducing their average wages and the upper wage 'ceiling' CCFC came out and signed Fenn for stupid money... I'm not into this bargaining theory, agents are pushing upwards in this league and thus wages will go up... and we all will suffer from this.
I'm not believing rumours of €2,000 a week for JOF and GOC, but I don't believe it to be far of the mark. conbined €3,000... at least. net, maybe €6,000 isn't that wild...
but what i'm saying is that Irish football needs a recession in players wages at the moment because their is so much to do in order to get our houses in order for the UEFA licence...
Now, Bohs and Shels have to reduce, I think Longford has to reduce and I'd be sure everyone has to reduce their wages budget. Signing Fenn for that rumoured money is only going against the grain of what is happening in Bohs and Shels, and what should be happening league wide. Perhaps Bohs and Shels, the leading lights are leading the way in another necessary direction and we should look to them and take heed...
Agents are going to be a danger in this newer age of eL soccer and because of these monkeys, who try to control players for their own ends, we may have clubs hitting the hard wall or either corruption or death. Nobody is making a vast amount of money in this league, let alone clubs, so why should players.]
Now, I'm not picking at Cork, Drogheda played another game. But we really need to see the long term benefits of everything our club does, and by extension, the league to ensure a steady growth and a steady progress.
You can say that because lennox is a good business man that he can't do no wrong, nobody knows how a man will react to pressures from supporters or from people such as Pat Dolan, especially as Lennox will not be liable for CCFC after his day, he still can take a chance, a gamble, if you like and lose... he might be held liable by supporters but at the end of the day he won't be... differant altogether if you were a members club alá Bohs...
A face
05/12/2003, 1:28 PM
Xlex, wel said my friend .... well said !!
Heres a few questions for y'all...
Whats is a fair average yearly wage for an eL professional footballer?
Is Crowe worthy of 85k as year?
Is the Bohs squad worth on average 40k a year?
either the FT wage is driving up PT wages or PT wages are driving up FT wages, but I don't have any solutions on how you regulate it...
Originally posted by Xlex
It really looks like CCFC will be the cause of inflation in eircom league players saleries. Three players on the bones of €6,000 a week, and to make that public...
because these figures are bandied about on the net they're assumed to be true...shame on internet spoofers more like
tiktok
05/12/2003, 9:34 PM
I take your argument Xlex, and it's well thought out, but it's flaw is basing it on the Fenn signing, the reports of sign on bonus and wages are purely speculation. I've seen no official figures, just those bandied about on EL forums. They're more than likely a gross exaggeration on what the real terms are.
thecorner
06/12/2003, 11:12 AM
after having time to think about this topic i think its a disgrace the money city are paying players
with all the starvation in the world and all the people on the streets in our home town, the herion problem in the city also...the money could be better spent:o
:D :D :D
Xlex, everything you say is built on a house of cards.
Sure we might as well go into Championship manager and add up all the wages and take that as gospel if we are accepting "dúirt bean liom go ndúirt bean lei" internet proof
Just imagne the conversation between Fenn and WhoAreYa
Fenn- (thinking to himself before he had a chat with WhoAreYa; well City are offering me a decent deal, might as well chance my arm with this bunch, see if I can get more. Should have a bit of fun with this fella anyway)
EC- Com'on sign for Pats
NF- Eh, give me a decent wage, say €700 pw and a signing on fee of €3500
EC- We're a small club going nowhere fast, we cant afford that. (to himself - cráp our supporters will go mad when they see we have no ambition or hope. I wish Pat was here to tell me what to do, he's the Batman to my Robin)
NF- Good luck
later than day in McDowells
EC- Tried to sign Fenn today
Pats Fans- How did it go.
EC- (thinking to himself, well I can try to undermine Dolan again with a 'O'Callaghan to Longford' and keep the Pats fans on side coz they hate him) ..erm.. he was looking for €10,000 turning up fee, five comely maidens of virtue true, a peach floating in perfume in a large mans hat, a rare first draft of the constitution with the word suckers in it on top of a weekly wage of €2,000. I told him to go back to Mullagh land. (smooth Eamo, smooth)
Pats Fans- A rite, bleedin Mullaghs, Cark are going broke. Better get online. Deadly buzz. Here Anto did you hear.....
I'll admit that some of the theory is flaky but if we had a first division player who hasn't been proven in the Premier ask us for €950 net a week (PT, 52 week) why wouldn't Neil Fenn (GOC, JOF) be on circ 1,200 - 1,700 a week gross, easily translating into a combined €6,000 a week gross... FT...
and I'm speaking about alledged figures on the net, but sometimes these aren't to far from the truth. If Joe can come on here and dismiss then because he know's different fair enough but to put it down to 'internet rumor' is being defensive...
as for soccfc, fair enough, house of cards, it would appear that alot of clubs are in fact sitting like a house of cards... it's speculation, that's all. but Shels and Bohs, St. Pat's previous problems are all very real..but at the crux of my issue is that we all have UEFA licences to meet and clubs are breaking their arses to pay players, upgrade facilities and set-up youth structures, and at the bottom of it all is the fact that players are making a small fortune and clubs are finding it hard to ****... the only reason Fenn got the reputed contract is that Shels and Bohs always seem to be ready to pay silly money to players that they all of a sudden don't have....
Originally posted by Xlex
and I'm speaking about alledged figures on the net, but sometimes these aren't to far from the truth. If Joe can come on here and dismiss then because he know's different fair enough but to put it down to 'internet rumor' is being defensive...
that i can't do, for certain, but speaking from past experiences with regards internet rumours and the little bit of insight i do have into ccfc i would say that the figures mentioned here are exaggerated
Originally posted by joe
that i can't do, for certain, but speaking from past experiences with regards internet rumours and the little bit of insight i do have into ccfc i would say that the figures mentioned here are exaggerated
fair enough joe, alot of what i said is conjecture, i'm sustaining my arguement based on something which may or may not occurred. But if the basis of my point were proven true it would be a dangerous and valid assumption...
I still don't think we're that far away from a serious crash from clubs in over their heads in Ireland, I feel the problems may also stem for a current club board going all out to secure Europe knowing that they personally won't be liable...
In one way I feel Drogheda were the most blatent abusers of the trust that was placed in a board by the FAI and Drogheda's supporters... contary to what I said earlier...
A face
09/12/2003, 12:03 PM
Actually every player is getting paid €100 a week and are proud to do it for the love of their club/ (http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=210&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)
Work for Victory !!
You just can't put a price on the pride and the passion!!;)
Éanna
09/12/2003, 12:23 PM
Nobody really knows how much the guys are on. The simple fact of the matter is, I don't think Brian Lennox is stupid. He's a business man as well as a football man, and he is not going to throw money down the drain. If we can afford to pay better wages than other clubs, its probably because we're getting much better crowds, and our merchandise sales (if the no. of jerseys you see around are anything to go by) are improving all the time. I said 3 or 4 years ago, that the only way for CCFC to make itself a force in Irish football was to put money forward to sign some very good players, because that would bring the punters in- speculate to accumulate and all that. Looks like we've finally got a chairman ready to make that leap of faith
Originally posted by Xlex
fair enough joe, alot of what i said is conjecture, i'm sustaining my arguement based on something which may or may not occurred. But if the basis of my point were proven true it would be a dangerous and valid assumption...
I agree with your agrument alright Xlex, but I just don't think City are going to overextend themselves given the people in charge at the moment. Maybe other clubs alright
Originally posted by joe
I just don't think City are going to overextend themselves given the people in charge at the moment. Maybe other clubs alright
Just one point - most clubs have established business men on their boards or as chairman. What makes Lennox so different? Afterall, ultimately it's not his money, and he could walk away if things went pearshaped....
Originally posted by Macy
Just one point - most clubs have established business men on their boards or as chairman. What makes Lennox so different? Afterall, ultimately it's not his money, and he could walk away if things went pearshaped....
I don't know that much about him but from my observations he a big improvement in the usual businessmen involved with CCFC. At the moment he seems to have the midas touch with his finger on the pulse of the supporters - even the small improvements in the way the club run or match days organised have been very good up to now.
Originally posted by Macy
Just one point - most clubs have established business men on their boards or as chairman. What makes Lennox so different? Afterall, ultimately it's not his money, and he could walk away if things went pearshaped....
dunno really, but he is very much committed to the club and ensuring not only that it continues to exist but that it will deliver on the potential. and ultimately i think it is his money seeing as he has sole owenership afaik.
Originally posted by joe
dunno really, but he is very much committed to the club and ensuring not only that it continues to exist but that it will deliver on the potential. and ultimately i think it is his money seeing as he has sole owenership afaik.
Surely with limited liability though (if not he really isn't any kind of businessman)....
obviously.
the thing is he decided to take over sole control of the club a year and a half ago having been involved in city for the last few years so he knew what he was getting into. also the fact that his family have been associated with soccer in cork for many a year
tiktok
11/12/2003, 7:56 PM
Lennox has been around City for years, and it's enabled him to see the errors of those who came before him. He strikes me as someone who's got a real vision for the club and that filters down to all levels of the organisation. He's not making any wild promises, but is making steps in the right direction.
DolansWaistcoat
14/12/2003, 2:15 PM
Lennox knows what he's doing lads.Great business brain.
Dodge
15/12/2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by DolansWaistcoat
Lennox knows what he's doing lads.Great business brain.
As Macy said, most club chairman are. Look at Rover’s chairman and his company. Very, very successful high end company. Can’t run a football club though.
Lennox looks like he knows what he’s doing and fair play to him.
If Cork want to pay that money, fine. Let them. It doesn't force other clubs to do anything. If Pats/Bohs/Longford go to sign a player and he asks for 1,200 a week because someone else is, the club don't have to agree. If they all say no, he'll lower his demands.
On the bit about Fenn’s demands. All along I said that’s what he claimed. Of course he may have lied. However on the btid Waterford forum, they talked about similar figures about the same time. 10,000 signing on fee and 1,000 a week.
On internet hoaxers; never, ever believe anything you read on an internet forum. In my case the only hoax/lie was the Pats to tallaght thing and that wasn’t meant to be on the net… Everything else is either the truth or what I’ve heard. Despite what some think I don’t come on deliberately to wind people up. However I don't tust anyone else and nor should you...
TommyT
15/12/2003, 10:40 AM
Dodge what is it Maguire's company does ?
DolansWaistcoat
15/12/2003, 10:42 AM
X-files style conspericy(spelling) theories there by dodge;)
Dodge
15/12/2003, 10:42 AM
Thought you'd know
company name edited out
TommyT
15/12/2003, 2:18 PM
Read some references to how successful he is from his apologists on srfcultras.com but they never spat it out and said it.
Originally posted by TommyT
Read some references to how successful he is from his apologists on srfcultras.com but they never spat it out and said it.
Err, I thought it was common knowledge. I've edited it that post now...
Shame on CCFC???
It wasn't City that started inflating players' wages. City have built up from a position of recent near-collapse to be in a position to challenge the wages offered by the "big" Dublin clubs. It did this thru youth development and sound business practice. It then turns out that the clubs that payed more than they can afford ( and consequently made it more expensive for all clubs) are in trouble - shame on them!
Lennox is a business man but also one with direct experience of City's near-death - I doubt that he will risk that again. CCFC has been rebuilding itself and is trying to regain the position it once had - title challenger. It is still a semi-pro club and may remain so. It seems that it is financially secure and so has every right to go for the players it wants.
TommyT
17/12/2003, 2:21 PM
In fairness if the other clubs can't afford to match Cork's money they shouldn't try to. I f Cork can afford to sign better players they'll win the league. Simple.
For years they've missed out in spite of being at the buisness end of the table through paying out far less than the Dublin clubs, cos, with a few exceptions, they knew their players wouldn't leave.
EireBadBoy
19/12/2003, 2:05 AM
If they have the money to spend then fine but I'm sure we all agree you can't buy success, well not long term success anyway.
It will be interesting to see how this works out for them next Season and if the blight of the Intertoto ruins it for them :D
Originally posted by EireBadBoy
If they have the money to spend then fine but I'm sure we all agree you can't buy success, well not long term success anyway.
Depends on what u spend it on. City have been developing youth stuctures and links to schoolboy leagues for last couple of years - that's gotta be money well spent.
It also should be pointed out that CCFC has bought 2 players so far - one from Waterford on (rumoured) big money and one from the Kerry league. It has not been splahing out big cash to entice non-munster players down. That would be a sign of big spending...
Dodge
19/12/2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by derm
It has not been splahing out big cash to entice non-munster players down. That would be a sign of big spending...
Is Fenn not a Londoner?
DolansWaistcoat
19/12/2003, 10:38 AM
Fenn played for tottenham hotspur a few seasons back,don't know if he's from london though.
City spending money on 1 player (presume young kerry guy more for u-21 squad) suddenly constitutes financial mis-management.
Apparently Rovers spending 300% weekly revenue while refusing bids for their players. Shel$ & Bohs adding to their squads is not financialy sound????
:rolleyes:
I may have thought lennox should have pushed thru a fulltime squad quicker but can now see the logic in the "3 year plan".
Is this just not jealously from the "big clubs" cos success has not lead to increased revenue thru gate receipts or sponsorship?
Dodge
19/12/2003, 11:26 AM
getting back to the original point Xlex was saying Cork could be responsible for increasing players wages. Myself and a few others are saying that its up to the clubs to pay what they can afford and if Cork can, fair play to them.
On that broader issue. Shels are an absolute disgrace at the moment. Asking for fans to pay players wages in the close season while still going out and signing two high profile playes!
Bohs have acknowledged their debts and are working hard to pay them off. To their credit they are trying to reduce their wage bill by offloading squad members.
Rovers are possibly in the most perilous position of all but most of their players are part time so won't be getting paid in the off season. If Robinson is only part time Rovers shouldn't really have a need to sell him.
TommyT
19/12/2003, 1:55 PM
Originally posted by Dodge
Is Fenn not a Londoner?
Born in England but down on the PFAs free list as ''Irish''
Originally posted by Dodge
Shels are an absolute disgrace at the moment. Asking for fans to pay players wages in the close season while still going out and signing two high profile playes!
Yeah, how can they justify that?
Shelbourne FC and Ollie Byrne are a disgrace to the el imo. I know you can say fair play to them for putting in place their full time structures etc. but that's not much good if they expect the fans to finance it.
Originally posted by TommyT
Born in England but down on the PFAs free list as ''Irish''
Yeah, afaik he was born and reared in London but has an Irish mother and represented Ireland at u20 level.
Originally posted by EireBadBoy
I'm sure we all agree you can't buy success
something that lennox pointed out at the recent press conference
bohs til i die
20/12/2003, 2:25 PM
Originally posted by Xlex
Now, Bohs and Shels have to reduce, I think Longford has to reduce and I'd be sure everyone has to reduce their wages budget. Perhaps Bohs and Shels, the leading lights are leading the way in another necessary direction and we should look to them and take heed...
xlex ....
Bohs are not going to have to sacrifice first teamers to keep going [hopefully anyway]. Our management have earmarked several areas on the playing side where money is being un-necessarily spent and will make the necessary changes.
Dodge mentionned getting rid of squad players, but only Jon Duggan and John Lester have been released. Liam O'Brien was also released as his contract expired. Other players will go over the close season. It is hoped to reduce the wage bill without making an impact on the potential to win trophies, and it is something which can be achieved.
Ken Oman, Jason McGuinness and Paul Keegan are all out of contract and have been offered new contracts but have yet to re-sign.
Several people on our management as well as a few other committed members put together plans for changing our structure and also for clearing our debts. We are sorting our problems and hopefully we wont be in this position again.
Shels are acting disgracefully by trying to sign Cawley, Martyn and one or two others while asking players to take 30% pay cut and also asking their fans to give money to pay players.
Originally posted by bohs til i die
John Lester have been released.
wonder if we could tempt him down here. looked handy enough the few times i saw himm. great at set pieces
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