Dermot Keely tells it like it is

[Buile Shuibhne]

"The whole thing has become a farce. What's gone on is a scandal, and an even bigger scandal is the fact that we've heard nothing from the people in charge," Keely told the Herald.

"Today at the season launch we will be told that we are not allowed to speak out of turn or criticise the league or the FAI. It's all about control and massaging the appearance of it, but it's not about facing the facts.

"There's this idea in the FAI that everything is positive, everything's rosy in the garden and I can't understand that. Everybody in the game knows it's a joke but they won't face up to that, and they won't silence me for saying that. If they want to fine me €5,000, then they can go ahead.

"They say that I am always knocking the league but I don't see it like that -- I love this league, but I know that some club will go bankrupt this year. That's a racing certainty.

"The FAI can fine me €5,000 if they want, I will challenge them all the way. I am not knocking the league, I am stating facts, and if they want to fine someone for stating facts, then let them," added Keely.


http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/keely-hits-out-at-fai-licencing-1656061.html

[John83]

I've objected to this FAI censorship Keely refers to before. I don't think it helps any, and it's enormously frustrating for people in the game. More effective in surpressing bad press would be something like not repeating the fun of half the league going broke midseason this year.

[A face]

I wish to god that Keely would just go away for about ten years so we dont have to be dealing with the guy.

[Inside Man]

He's dead right to say what he did. About time people started standing up for whats right instead of sitting in the wings and pretending everything is rosy like John83 for example, this typifies the kind of attitude that always gets us into messes(Oh no its another bad story about the league, will you guys grow up, things can't get any worse and a bit of bad news/publicity here and there is welcome because for sure its the only kind we get, maybe some day when all this bad publicity in the league reaches boiling point someone in a position to do something will stand up and just do it). So in my view Keely is dead right. And all this crap about bad publicity is rubbish enough of it and it may help us out of this mess.

[DmanDmythDledge]

I've objected to this sort of thing before. I don't think it helps any, and it's enormously frustrating for people in the game. More effective in surpressing bad press would be something like not repeating the fun of half the league going broke midseason this year.
I'd agree with this. While Keely does have a point, at the same time the Fran Gavin and the LoI are doing what they can to promote the league and PR comes into this.

[John83]

...pretending everything is rosy like John83 for example...
You've misinterpreted my post. In your defense, I didn't make it totally clear what I was objecting to. I meant the FAI's policy of censorship, not Keely's comments. I've now edited that post.

[Buile Shuibhne]

More of same:

http://vimeo.com/3389057

[Buile Shuibhne]

I wish to god that Keely would just go away for about ten years so we dont have to be dealing with the guy.



And we at Shels used to be accused of burying our heads in the sand.:eek:

What goes around, comes around.

[A face]

Oh no its another bad story about the league, will you guys grow up, things can't get any worse and a bit of bad news/publicity here and there is welcome because for sure its the only kind we get, maybe some day when all this bad publicity in the league reaches boiling point someone in a position to do something will stand up and just do it).

What planet are you on?
How do you get there?
Any chance of that travel company going there go on strike any time soon?

So you are saying the only way we'll solve the problems of the league is to generate all the bad news to the point that it makes 'the person with the keys to the magical safe that contains the solutions to every clubs problems' to act and open said safe?

Have i got that right yeah? thats about the list of it from what i can see? Is that what you were trying to say so yeah?

Question: Why hasn't the guy turned the key up until now though?

[Youths4Ever]

Kelly does have a point and if only positive news comes out not going to help as people not naive enough to think everything rosy in the garden.


I'd agree with this. While Keely does have a point, at the same time the Fran Gavin and the LoI are doing what they can to promote the league and PR comes into this.

Like Fran Gavin comments about the first division recently and lack of FD on tv and saying they should get into the Premier Division to be on tv oh yeah that great PR:rolleyes:

[MariborKev]

Question: Why hasn't the guy turned the key up until now though?

Keely has been banging on about it for a couple of years to be fair.

I understand the point you have made in terms of positive spin but one "Drogheda United"(apologies to Drogs fans) has a negative press impact which 10,000 smiley photoshoots of CPOs or soundbites.

I am totally in agreement with Keeley and while he mightn't be my cup of tea, I respect the fact that he'll say what he thinks.

Witness the lack of questions on the Padraig Smith thread. There are a load of questions to be asked on that but I am sure that people aren't holding their breath in terms of an insight? It was a struggle from me to even bother submitting ones, as I know there is little point.

I was naive enough to believe that Licensing might sort it out five years ago. The process has been a complete fudge ever since then and it has completely lost any credibility.

Anyone who cares about the League, and isn't just myoptically interested in their club, has to be concerned with the future of the League. Like Keely I'd place a bet that we'll have another financial crisis(or two) this year.

Anyone who speaks out of turn(and I know from bitter experience) will feel the full force, whilst we get the "it will be sorted this year".

We all thought we would have a "correction" this year, with the downturn, but from the look of it there appears to have been a little bit of musical chairs, without any real change.

[Jersey Cow]

Keeley is 100 percent right....if we had men of his stature making decisions it would be a much better League and the brushing under the carpet would be stopped....indeed the dirty rotten carpet would be thrown in the bin!!.......would be interesting to see the amount of big clubs scarper as far as they could when that happens!! :mad:

[A face]

The thing is though when the clubs ran the league it was pants

Clubs are being dragged kicking and screaming, having to adhere to licensing and some are finding it hard to swallow but what did they expect.

I'll be honest, Keely and his whinging will never do anything to improve this league. His whinging is worthless and not worth the time of day. It serves no purpose bar allowing him to rattle on and enjoy his own pontificating

[pineapple stu]

Clubs are ... having to adhere to licensing
:D

Keely's right. If a manager made Fran Gavin's comment about the First Division - regardless of whether or not it was justified - he'd be fined. But even constructive criticism isn't allowed. That's the inconsistency that's annoying. Your post sounds like you don't like the guy, therefore he's wrong.

[osarusan]

Clubs are being dragged kicking and screaming, having to adhere to licensing and some are finding it hard to swallow but what did they expect.

You cannot honestly say this after the licensing mess we've just had.

Drogheda (not to take the thread off topic) have been blatantly given assistance of a kind the FAI said they couldn't give any club, 2 clubs have gone into examinership and had no significant punishment. Who has been dragged kicking and screaming anywhere?

Keely is dead right to say this -

"The whole thing has become a farce. What's gone on is a scandal, and an even bigger scandal is the fact that we've heard nothing from the people in charge"

[A face]

:D

Keely's right. If a manager made Fran Gavin's comment about the First Division - regardless of whether or not it was justified - he'd be fined. But even constructive criticism isn't allowed. That's the inconsistency that's annoying. Your post sounds like you don't like the guy, therefore he's wrong.

I never liked him since his first spell at Shels, nah i'm only messing :p

Seriously, i dont have an issue with him per say but you have to admit that he does pipe up all the time with negativity, and its never changing. If he even changed tack every once and a while and pick out positive stuff then his opinion would carry more weight for me.

Have to say when the ref nearly stopped a game over jersey colours there a while back (last season i think) Keelys attitude was classic, really showed the stupidity of it all.

Edit: Sorry, on your point above, yeah the inconsistency aint gonna help ever. But some people in this league only ever have something bad to say. They may have a point, a very valid one but its not balanced to constantly start giving out. I should know, i give out an awful lot ;)

[pineapple stu]

Let's wait until he gives out about something he shouldn't be so. He's spot on here.

[A face]

Its a given that everyone knows there is a lot wrong in the league. We are more than aware of that. Ask anyone on the street and they will tell you that the league is a basket case.


Can someone give me a decent reason why the FAI should allow constant negative whinging?


What are the benefits and advantages to it?

[A face]

You cannot honestly say this after the licensing mess we've just had.

Drogheda (not to take the thread off topic) have been blatantly given assistance of a kind the FAI said they couldn't give any club, 2 clubs have gone into examinership and had no significant punishment. Who has been dragged kicking and screaming anywhere?

Keely is dead right to say this -

Its gonna take time ..... I know that is a short and snappy answer, even a rebuttal you might say but its true. If we are getting closer to it then its a good thing.

[SkStu]

Its gonna take time ..... I know that is a short and snappy answer, even a rebuttal you might say but its true. If we are getting closer to it then its a good thing.

have to agree with this. The FAI cannot be vilified for not sorting out every issue off the bat. As long as things are improving (i think they are, in general terms) and the FAI learn from their mistakes (we'll see) then the benefit of the doubt should be granted to them that they will get things right sooner rather than later.

[osarusan]

A Face, somebody saying that the licencing system has been a farce is not whinging, it is a perfectly valid criticism held by (I'd imagine) the majority of LOI fans. Just because it is Keely saying it doesn't make it whinging.



Can someone give me a decent reason why the FAI should allow constant negative whinging?


Each piece of criticism should be dealt with on its merits.

If it is without merit, then the FAI will be able to show it as being without merit and at the same time show themselves as capable of dealing with such kinds of criticism.

If the criticism is merited, it isn't "whinging", and the FAI need to address the criticism in a professional way.

[pineapple stu]

Can someone give me a decent reason why the FAI should allow constant negative whinging?
Because it's human nature to not tolerate suppression of opinion, which will only lead to more whining.

Amazed some people are allowing the FAI the "We're not there yet, but we're getting there" excuse.

[Sam_Heggy]

I say fine him 5 grand

[pineapple stu]

Keely or A face?

[A face]

have to agree with this. The FAI cannot be vilified for not sorting out every issue off the bat. As long as things are improving (i think they are, in general terms) and the FAI learn from their mistakes (we'll see) then the benefit of the doubt should be granted to them that they will get things right sooner rather than later.

Exactly, its not gonna happen over night. And for people to expect it to happen that fast is our worst enemy. I know the process this year was a mess but what good is it to harp on about it for the next three year.

To be honest lads, if the FAI walk away after the five years then i'd really fear for this league.

[MariborKev]

Can someone give me a decent reason why the FAI should allow constant negative whinging?


What are the benefits and advantages to it?

As compared to the ****** of "Nothing to see here, move along now" that seems to the line from Abbotstown?

I don't expect it to happen quickly A Face but bar a fancy website and a few comestic changes I really do wonder what the changes have been.

And if the people who care about the game aren't allowed to come out and say what they think then it is time to pack it in.

[A face]

A Face, somebody saying that the licencing system has been a farce is not whinging, it is a perfectly valid criticism held by (I'd imagine) the majority of LOI fans. Just because it is Keely saying it doesn't make it whinging.

Do me a favour, search for all of Keely's articles over the last few years and try and find a positive one. There, in my opinion, is nothing wrong with a perfectly valid criticism being shared, but not when its the only song you can sing.


Each piece of criticism should be dealt with on its merits.

Agreed


If it is without merit, then the FAI will be able to show it as being without merit and at the same time show themselves as capable of dealing with such kinds of criticism.

They haven't defended themselves at all at times. This is something i'd really really like to improve. I dont know do they fully value the damage that it does.


If the criticism is merited, it isn't "whinging", and the FAI need to address the criticism in a professional way.

I'd agree but can you see that there is a difference in 1.) using the proper protocol, process and discussion, debate and inclusion in effort to improve the league and 2.) whinging on a constant basis? Needless whining with no means to an end*



* And i'm assuming we'd all like to see an end to the reasons people have to whinge/criticise

[pineapple stu]

bar a fancy website
I make it three fancy websites, by the way. But this one's probably going to be perfect. Nothing can possibly go wrong with it. The FAI are behind it.

[A face]

As compared to the ****** of "Nothing to see here, move along now" that seems to the line from Abbotstown?

I don't expect it to happen quickly A Face but bar a fancy website and a few comestic changes I really do wonder what the changes have been.

And if the people who care about the game aren't allowed to come out and say what they think then it is time to pack it in.

How about give them the benefit of the doubt for the five years planned?

[osarusan]

How about give them the benefit of the doubt for the five years planned?
At midnight after 4 days and 365 days is everything going to metamorphose into the perfect league?

Nobody expects things to change overnight, but we do want to see signs that things are moving in the right direction, even if slowly.

Some things are going in the right direction, like MNS for example. But in my opinion licencing hasn't gone in the right direction, and the refusal to acknowledge / deal with criticism maturely is a step in the wrong direction.

The FAI, who I still want to see running the league in the future, need to show some accountability, need to address criticism, and need to show each step (and how that step will be achieved) in their overall plan for the league.

[MariborKev]

Sorry,

If your basis relates to "benefit of the doubt" there is not point even continuing this debate.

If the clubs have said "Let us keep running the League, we promise it will be different in five years time" would you have believed them?

Or if P1 had "acquired" a franchise to run the League, would you allow them "the benefit of the doubt"

Just because the FAI are now in charge, it doesn't mean that analysis of their performance should not continue?

They have done well in improving the prize fund,CPO,MNS. I am on record countless times praising them for this.

There should be KPI for their performances
- Have attendances improved
- Have stadia improved
- Are clubs more viable than when they took over

We could keep going.....

[A face]

Sorry,If your basis relates to "benefit of the doubt" there is not point even continuing this debate.

Its not Maribor, i'm playing devils advocate if anything.


The FAI, who I still want to see running the league in the future, need to show some accountability, need to address criticism, and need to show each step (and how that step will be achieved) in their overall plan for the league.


If the clubs have said "Let us keep running the League, we promise it will be different in five years time" would you have believed them?

Or if P1 had "acquired" a franchise to run the League, would you allow them "the benefit of the doubt"

Just because the FAI are now in charge, it doesn't mean that analysis of their performance should not continue?

They have done well in improving the prize fund,CPO,MNS. I am on record countless times praising them for this.

There should be KPI for their performances
- Have attendances improved
- Have stadia improved
- Are clubs more viable than when they took over

We could keep going.....

I agree totally with you both. Lads, i'm well able to stick the knife in myself, with less restraint and constructed argument than yourselves. I'm not saying that we should say nothing.

But i stand by my point. I think that Keely, Roddy and their ilk who constantly have nothing to say other that lambaste the league and everything to do with it serves no purpose.

Its the whining for the sake of it that gets me. It will never improve anything and a lot of the time gives nothing tangible to work with, to improve from, to learn from mistakes. Keely might have a point now but he needs to read 'The boy who cried wolf for the millionth time' again.

[Boh_So_Good]

I wish to god that Keely would just go away for about ten years so we dont have to be dealing with the guy.

Considering at most times he appears to be unaware of the actual decade he is living in we might have to resort to String Theory or maybe even fire him through the Large HADRON Collider in order to try and make him exist within some space-time reality in order so we can satisfy your wish.

He makes me sick personally. There are times I wonder if he is real at all or if Keely is like some subjective quantum projection bending back in on itself which we are all witnessing as punishment for enjoying domestic football.

[Dodge]

And we at Shels used to be accused of burying our heads in the sand.:eek:

What goes around, comes around.

You morethan most, rightfully too.

I'm with the FAI on this. There's absolutel a culture of bitching and whining throughout the league and there's enough people willing to slate the league and it's clubs without doing it ourselves.

Everyone knows the problems within the league but bad press and bad PR is absolutely amongst the biggest of them. Of course they should be busy trying to fix the other problems but there's nothing to say they can't help the legue be run more professional and try and spin things positively.

In saying all that Gavin clearly isn't the man for the job. He's completely out if his depth and his own PR skills are non existant.

By all means fans and commentators should be critical (if needs be) and the Derry fine of Maribor a couple of hears ago was a disgrace. The clubs, and their employees, however should bring all grievances to the league ( or licensing panel) and abide by their decision. I'd absolutely agree that this process should be open and transparent.

[Lim till i die]

Dermot Keely is a hypocritical, loudmouth, clown.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not speaking from a position of any great knowledge, I'm just asking in an interested capacity from abroad (ok, London, hardly Astana):

Is the league not just in a transition process from poor regulation and poor financial management, moving to a new era of tighter regulation and financial & regulatory best practice via the licensing route, the coaching qualification criteria and other steps the FAI has taken following farcical governance faults like player registration errors etc.? I know the FAI would like people to think this way but is this the case? If not, what's the reality? Whose fault is it if Drogheda, Bohs, Cork or whoever can't live within their means? Have I missed the point?

Marketing & PR is a separate issue.

My recollection following the Genesis report on the eL is that the consensus here was that their research was poor but some of the sentiment & ideas weren't bad. Furthermore, articles by people like Paul Rowan simply highlighted that whilst nobody felt everything was rosy, continuous moaning would only lead to one place. This is what this thread seems to be about.

Longer post than necessary, I'm more interested in answers to the top half.

[John83]

Is the league not just in a transition process from poor regulation and poor financial management, moving to a new era of tighter regulation and financial & regulatory best practice via the licensing route, the coaching qualification criteria and other steps the FAI has taken following farcical governance faults like player registration errors etc.? I know the FAI would like people to think this way but is this the case? If not, what's the reality?
The fans wail, "Things are worse than ever," the FAI tells us that it's always darkest before the dawn, and some people insist that Keeley's a joker.

What many people fear is that while the appearance of regulation is there, the truth is that licensing is routinely fudged, and much of the improvement is cosmetic. The evidence for it is in the sudden collapse of Cork and Drogheda last year, which flew in the face of the idea that things are improving.


Whose fault is it if Drogheda, Bohs, Cork or whoever can't live within their means? Have I missed the point?

Marketing & PR is a separate issue.
Not any more are they separate. The FAI took over the league with the promise that they could make things better. They set the requirements. They monitor compliance. They set the punishments and incentives. The buck stops with them.

[oldyouth]

The man makes a reasonable argument as a genuine footballing man. It is not for outsiders to comment on his managerial abilities. I'd rather have more people that are blunt speakers, than those that are afraid to talk about the bleedin' obvious

[Lim till i die]

The man makes a reasonable argument as a genuine footballing man. It is not for outsiders to comment on his managerial abilities. I'd rather have more people that are blunt speakers, than those that are afraid to talk about the bleedin' obvious

The man had no problem managing Dublin City.

The Loudmouth Clown.

[shelsfan1]

the man is a hero. a proper league of ireland man.

ask yourself is he wrong?? no these are facts. these are problems that are in the league and ones we would all like to see out of the league. But the way to solve the problem is not to ignore it, it is to high light it and find out why it has happened and see why the punishments aren't correct.

look at it from the view of an outsider.if you didn't know the league and someone explained to you what has happened ya'd laugh, ya'd think it was a joke. and quite frankly that is what the league is at the moment

[GalwayRed]

Keelys right to speak up about the situation. I dont like the idea of constantly critisising the league but in this case somebody had to challenge the FAI over the licencing. I think some people on here are just critising Keely for this becasue they dont like him, not because they think he was wrong to do it. Although if the FAI do end up fining him over the issue, i hope they at least try to defend themselves, rather than sayting nothing and fining him.

[Lim till i die]

I think some people on here are just critising Keely for this becasue they dont like him, not because they think he was wrong to do it.

What's your point?? :)

[Maynard]

Unfortunately this thread has gone particularly to form. Ignore the issue, rate/slate the issue raiser.

For my money, the man has more hands on experience than 99% of the others involved in the game. And I agree with him. But that is probably just going to form...

[Dodge]

look at it from the view of an outsider.if you didn't know the league and someone explained to you what has happened ya'd laugh, ya'd think it was a joke. and quite frankly that is what the league is at the moment

So you're saying we shouldn't be telling them about the mess its in? So you agree with the FAI and not Keely?


Good man;)

[GalwayRed]

So you're saying we shouldn't be telling them about the mess its in? So you agree with the FAI and not Keely?


Good man;)
No what shelsfan1 is saying is that these problems should be highlighted to the FAI and not ignored, because if these problems arent sorted, outsiders will see the league as a joke and ignore it.
Of course highlighting the problems is far easier than fixing them but that dosent mean these problems should be ignored.

[blackholesun]

Keeley is 100 percent right....if we had men of his stature making decisions it would be a much better League and the brushing under the carpet would be stopped....indeed the dirty rotten carpet would be thrown in the bin!!.......would be interesting to see the amount of big clubs scarper as far as they could when that happens!! :mad:

I think you meant to say "would be interesting to see the amount of so-called big clubs" ...

:cool:

Keely is spot on!

Drogs, Cork and Galway shoud be playing in div1 this year.

bhs

[A face]

ask yourself is he wrong?? no these are facts. these are problems that are in the league and ones we would all like to see out of the league. But the way to solve the problem is not to ignore it, it is to high light it and find out why it has happened and see why the punishments aren't correct.


No what shelsfan1 is saying is that these problems should be highlighted to the FAI and not ignored, because if these problems arent sorted, outsiders will see the league as a joke and ignore it. Of course highlighting the problems is far easier than fixing them but that dosent mean these problems should be ignored.

You are both saying that there are problems and that the league needs to face up to it. I agree and it should be done through the proper channels and Keely never does this, or at least we never see him doing so.

Why does he need to highlight it, we all already know of the many many problems. If he raised it and dealt with it properly he might even see results. His old method does nothing for the league except damage it.


look at it from the view of an outsider.if you didn't know the league and someone explained to you what has happened ya'd laugh, ya'd think it was a joke. and quite frankly that is what the league is at the moment

What are you saying? What?


Drogs, Cork and Galway shoud be playing in div1 this year.

I agree and so do the FAI, hence the change in licensing now (afaik its this year) so that if clubs do go into examinership they will be penalised accordingly. Does anyone have the full details on this? This is the licensing and proper debate and discussion on the issue working and now it will be amended to avoid it happening again. It was a 'learn by your mistakes' change, so what. Will Keely harping on about it be any more effective than actually implementing the measure ..... NO, no it wont ..... ever. The guy is a whinger and loves the sound of his own voice.

[shelsfan1]

Why does he need to highlight it, we all already know of the many many problems. If he raised it and dealt with it properly he might even see results. His old method does nothing for the league except damage it
what is the proper procedure then?? if dermo writes a nice letter to the fai highlighting a problem they can ignore him and try to move on. in the way he has done through interviews and his column, the fai cannot ignore him.they can say he's completely wrong, fine him and try and move on. but in doing so they must give reasons for there actions. whether you like the man or not, or you don't agree with him, the one thing this league and the licencing process needs is transparency. if these interviews force the fai into giving reasons why clubs weren't correctly punished we will then finally have precidents, example of what can and can't be done by clubs. we will hopefully then be on a level playing field and the league will be able to move forward

[A face]

what is the proper procedure then?? if dermo writes a nice letter to the fai highlighting a problem they can ignore him and try to move on. in the way he has done through interviews and his column, the fai cannot ignore him.they can say he's completely wrong, fine him and try and move on. but in doing so they must give reasons for there actions. whether you like the man or not, or you don't agree with him, he one thing this league and the licencing process needs is transparency, if these interviews force the fai into giving reasons why clubs weren't correctly punished we will then finally have precidents, example of what can and can't be done by clubs. we will hopefully then be on a level playing field and the league will be able to move forward

The issues that are being raised will not be improved over night. They wil need discussion and input over a prolonged period of time.

Keely and his crew can go to the media and give out about issues that wont be changed over night and he will be right. Fair play to him, he is right and everyone else is wrong. Thats excellent for him and i'm sure we are all happy for him. Now, there is the little matter of the outstanding problem.

Keely, in particular, always seems to go down this short term 'i am right, they are wrong' avenue. Its tiresome and futile, it will never get us any where. I dont think the FAI are ignoring him or anyone when it comes to matters about improving the league.

If Keely chooses not to subscribe to system to improve the league then how can the FAI be to blame for that. The PR of the league is under the remit of the FAI and they should fine Keely for his continued gripes against the league.

If it were any one else i'd probably favour their argument/opinion/stance a bit more.

[shelsfan1]

The issues that are being raised will not be improved over night. They wil need discussion and input over a prolonged period of time.

Keely and his crew can go to the media and give out about issues that wont be changed over night and he will be right. Fair play to him, he is right and everyone else is wrong. Thats excellent for him and i'm sure we are all happy for him. Now, there is the little matter of the outstanding problem.

Keely, in particular, always seems to go down this short term 'i am right, they are wrong' avenue. Its tiresome and futile, it will never get us any where. I dont think the FAI are ignoring him or anyone when it comes to matters about improving the league.

If Keely chooses not to subscribe to system to improve the league then how can the FAI be to blame for that. The PR of the league is under the remit of the FAI and they should fine Keely for his continued gripes against the league.

If it were any one else i'd probably favour their argument/opinion/stance a bit more.
who is in keelys crew??
and i know i've said it before and i'll say it again, is he wrong?? as long as he's right i think he's entitled to "go down this short term 'i am right, they are wrong' avenue."