No Catering Contract For Irish [Archive]

A face

16/02/2009, 7:18 PM

I heard that the revamped Lansdowne Road catering contract was given away to any English company at the cost of even more Irish jobs. And get this, the contract was signed for ........ wait for it ........ 21 years !! :eek:

No, you ARE reading that right. It is actually twenty one years. I dont know how in the name of god they have signed any contact with anyone for anything for 21 years. I hope there are regular reviews with strong options to make change. And arbitration is vital as well if it came to a head at any stage, it could cost a fortune if its not nailed down.

Who made this decision? Was there not one Irish catering company offering a competitive price? How can you approach any Irish company for sponsorship after that?

centre mid

16/02/2009, 7:23 PM

I presume whatever company got the contract that they wont be flying in staff from the UK. It would have to have been an open tender process, anything else would be against EU law. Looks more like a case of rip-off Ireland coming home to roost.

eirebhoy

16/02/2009, 7:29 PM

It's Compass Catering afaik. They do Croker, the races, bank of Ireland, and a load of others. Obviously they employ their staff from this country. I shop in Tesco if it's cheaper so won't be critisising the FAI for this.

Razors left peg

16/02/2009, 7:33 PM

people would be giving out if they went out of their way to give the contract to an Irish company if it worked out more expensive.... the headline would be FAI wasting money again

stojkovic

16/02/2009, 7:34 PM

Its a bit hypocritical after we all (I didnt) did our Christmas shopping in Newry !

Are Aviva an Irish company ?

How about Arup ?

A face

16/02/2009, 7:38 PM

I presume whatever company got the contract that they wont be flying in staff from the UK.

Obviously they employ their staff from this country.

Apparently they will be flying their staff in, they have hotel accommodation organised for them (i'm not 100% on this, getting info second hand)

Agreed about rip-off Ireland but was there not one Irish Company bending over backwards to get this contract?

Longfordian

16/02/2009, 7:41 PM

That surely couldn't work out cheaper for them than paying Irish part time workers minimum wage or thereabouts?!.

eirebhoy

16/02/2009, 8:10 PM

Apparently they will be flying their staff in, they have hotel accommodation organised for them (i'm not 100% on this, getting info second hand)
I'd be very suprised at that. I know a good few people who work for Compass at the Races and Croker. Don't know why it would be different for Lansdowne. We're talking barmen, waiters, chefs, kitchen porters, etc.

Superhoops

16/02/2009, 8:19 PM

Apparently they will be flying their staff in, they have hotel accommodation organised for them (i'm not 100% on this, getting info second hand)

Agreed about rip-off Ireland but was there not one Irish Company bending over backwards to get this contract?

This was announced about three weeks ago here (http://www.lrsdc.ie/news/default.asp?NCID=50&NID=677). According to this Compass Group Ireland have been established here for over 20 years.

I think you will find that Compass have paid LRDC a huge amount for the franchise to operate all the corporate hospitality, the restaurants and the on site food outlets.

pete

16/02/2009, 8:23 PM

Apparently they will be flying their staff in, they have hotel accommodation organised for them (i'm not 100% on this, getting info second hand)

I think you might be hand on that one.

I can't see how would be cost effective to fly staff in for events. That said I am sure a lot of the jobs would be part time. Maybe the fulltime Management are flown in?

If Irish companies rip us off we complain, if foreign companies win contracts (presumably paying more or charging less) we complain... :confused:

Newryrep

16/02/2009, 8:29 PM

Know very little about this but 21 years for any contract like this seems a bit excessive why not 10 years with an option of a rolling 5 year contract ?

Mad Moose

16/02/2009, 8:35 PM

Apparently they will be flying their staff in, they have hotel accommodation organised for them (i'm not 100% on this, getting info second hand)

Agreed about rip-off Ireland but was there not one Irish Company bending over backwards to get this contract?

Heard talk of this on Joe Duffy today. Talk to Joe. I have to say I try and listen when I can at work. Didn't agree today though.We joined the European Union for a reason. Free and competitive markets. How manty contracts have we secured away from the island of Ireland. London 2012 is an Irish contract I believe and there was one mentioned for the channel tunnel. People rang Joe today disgraced it wasn't an Irish contract. Why must as a nation we whinge about everything or groan when things don't go our way. I'm sure it was a tendering process and we didn't compete.I don't expect we would have based on Irish minimum pay. The nature of contracts isn't patriotic.Its about costs and it a contract is cheaper elsewhere then thats what you go with.

Dodge

16/02/2009, 9:17 PM

LOL @ the idea that a company would fly in staff and put them up over night to dish out food

A face

16/02/2009, 9:18 PM

I'd be very suprised at that. I know a good few people who work for Compass at the Races and Croker. Don't know why it would be different for Lansdowne. We're talking barmen, waiters, chefs, kitchen porters, etc.

Matchdays are only one day, and they would be employing fulltime staff to fill the positions, again .... this is only as far as i know.

LOL @ the idea that a company would fly in staff and put them up over night to dish out food

I'd agree, but i'm only passing on what i've heard

That said, i have a mate who has worked for a promotions company for years who run Budwieser Bars at concerts, festivals etc. and she has travelled all over the place with them, to England as well. She is only there to look good for alot of their events but she's not on her own. Loads of staff that do the same.

Dodge

16/02/2009, 9:20 PM

Do you not have some sort of bull**** filter?

pete

16/02/2009, 9:22 PM

LOL @ the idea that a company would fly in staff and put them up over night to dish out food

Maybe Gordon Ramsey will have a franchise in the stadium :D

Junior

16/02/2009, 11:04 PM

Its about costs and it a contract is cheaper elsewhere then thats what you go with.

Price should only be one element of the decision.

Quality, Flexibility, Is the company going to be around in a years time with the current economic climate?

I would hope it wasnt a decision based solely on whos the cheapest!

4tothefloor

16/02/2009, 11:24 PM

Irish companies are complete and utter rip-off merchants. I'm involved in running a business myself. In recent months we've upgraded a lot of things in the business, including an IT system for stock control and retail POS, an electronic queueing system, signage, pre-printed till receipts and other printed media, electronic gift cards and various retail display props. About €35k in total and not one thing was purchased from an Irish company - everything was supplied from the UK. Why? UK is a half to one third of the price for the SAME products and supplies. It's astonishing when you do your research. On top of these savings you pay no VAT as your an overseas company. Irish companies prices are laughable and if we were dependent on them, the project would've been un-doable. Two problems - crazy minimum wage for the size of the country and greedy rip-off companies.

Not one bit surprised a UK company has won it. Irish companies probably tendered crazy prices. They'll get real soon enough though.....

NeilMcD

16/02/2009, 11:30 PM

Are you not an irish company though.

soccerc

16/02/2009, 11:53 PM

On top of these savings you pay no VAT as your an overseas company.

You are liable for the VAT at Irish rates once the items were landed. It's how Intra EU sales operate or are you saying you didn;t delcare it in your VAT returns?

Dodge

17/02/2009, 7:43 AM

Are you not an irish company though.

Thats what I was thinking, an Irish company saying all Irish companies are rip offs...

elroy

17/02/2009, 8:17 AM

You are liable for the VAT at Irish rates once the items were landed. It's how Intra EU sales operate or are you saying you didn;t delcare it in your VAT returns?

I think he means that no VAT is charged on the invoice, he just needs to self account for Irish VAT in his return but presuming he has full recovery then will have no cash flow effect.

Funny how this becomes a story when the FAI are involved, croker have the same caterers but obviously there was no need for such a story then.

A face

17/02/2009, 8:29 AM

Do you not have some sort of bull**** filter?

Dodge, steady on man. I said all along i wouldn't stand over what was being said. That was never a secret.

Dodge

17/02/2009, 8:30 AM

But you still believed it, thats the point

Fr Damo

17/02/2009, 8:32 AM

You are liable for the VAT at Irish rates once the items were landed. It's how Intra EU sales operate or are you saying you didn;t delcare it in your VAT returns?

The items he bought are non saleable and therefore he won't be charging vat on selling these. what it does mean is that as he purchased the products without Vat he won't be able to offset this vat on sales he made (as there is none) in the next vat return and therefore increasing his VAT liability. Buying products without Vat from abroad only benifits short term cash flow, the revenue get ya in the end!!

4tothefloor

17/02/2009, 11:40 AM

Are you not an irish company though.
We are. We don't pick figures out of the sky to charge customers though. Something which costs £615 should not cost nearly €2000 over here - yes it's that bad. It's the Irish that are ripping the Irish off. Then again it's been going on for years, if you've ever drank in an Irish bar abroad you'll know what I mean.

I think he means that no VAT is charged on the invoice, he just needs to self account for Irish VAT in his return but presuming he has full recovery then will have no cash flow effect.

These are non re-sale goods that are necessary for the running of the business. The IT system would be regarded as an asset. You simply record it as a purchase in your end of year accounts, detailing both the Euro and Sterling amounts at 0%. It is then accounted for and you do not pay VAT. This according to our accountant so I'll take his word for it!

Irish companies are hampered by the high minimum wage, higher VAT and higher overheads such as energy supply and rent. So you have to expect to pay higher prices here than abroad. But within reason, it still doesn't account for wild differences in pricing which are just off the wall in some instances.

pete

17/02/2009, 11:41 AM

Why must as a nation we whinge about everything or groan when things don't go our way. I'm sure it was a tendering process and we didn't compete.

We really shouldn't be surprised - as a Nation we loved capitalism for a decade & then when & now the wheels have fallen off we would elect Fidel Castro into office if we had the choice...

Not wanting to go all Current Affairs on this but I am sure Irish companies win a lot more contracts abroad than foreign companies do here.

Bluetonic

17/02/2009, 11:52 AM

But, but, but, but...I heard that we'll have to pay in sterling and that they'll only serve 100% British beef :p

NeilMcD

17/02/2009, 12:01 PM

We really shouldn't be surprised - as a Nation we loved capitalism for a decade & then when & now the wheels have fallen off we would elect Fidel Castro into office if we had the choice...

Not wanting to go all Current Affairs on this but I am sure Irish companies win a lot more contracts abroad than foreign companies do here.

Civil war politics has an awful lot to answer for.

Cowboy

17/02/2009, 3:30 PM

Bit of a lazy generalistaion there, not all irish companies behave in this way. I assume you do not include your own company in this statement?

Irish companies are complete and utter rip-off merchants.

Mad Moose

17/02/2009, 3:35 PM

Price should only be one element of the decision.

Quality, Flexibility, Is the company going to be around in a years time with the current economic climate?

I would hope it wasnt a decision based solely on whos the cheapest!

To be honest it often is and with a lot of organisations it becomes more costly in the long term based on inefficiencies.Certainly our IT support is wonderfully inept and they lost the contract on price so the current contract was undercut. What does it mean?. Employee's moving to the new contractors, working for less money and being equally inept, just a cheaper inept.

Junior

17/02/2009, 3:48 PM

Yeah I know it goes on obviously, far too often businesses are looking for short term savings which can be a risky strategy. A companies IT system/network going down for any period of time should cost them enough in lost revenue to teach them that the premium paid for quality usually pays for itself!!

Otherwise I expect the Ambulance chasers will be getting ready as we speak, with their legal writs to the FAI for food poisoning claims etc....etc....:D

A face

17/02/2009, 4:25 PM

But you still believed it, thats the point

I didn't, how could i have believed it when i didn't know either way if it was true or not. I was just relaying what i heard and i always said that. I was told that it wouldn't be part-time staff, it would be full time staff and they would be coming from an existing pool of staff. I didn't claim at any stage that it might be true and i still dont know either way.

Greenforever

17/02/2009, 7:42 PM

The catering franchise was awarded to the highest bidder, i.e. the company prepared to pay the most for the franchise to the stadium company. This is normal practice just like the Naming Rights, The Beer Rights etc, bought by Diagio for Guinness and Budweiser.

It is then up to the franchise holders to screw us for our food to get their money back!

Personally the chipper under the railway bridge on Bath Ave will do me :D

pete

17/02/2009, 9:17 PM

For the few football games i attended at Croke Park I never noticed the drink/food. Noticed it at the rugby couple of weeks ago & is hopelessly organised. Hopefully the are better in the new stadium.

That said the Millenium stadium in Cardiff is also rubbish.

I can't believe the drink/food suppliers can't organise shorter queues as they must lose out on a lot of money as many people won't queue for 15 minutes.

4tothefloor

17/02/2009, 10:19 PM

Bit of a lazy generalistaion there, not all irish companies behave in this way. I assume you do not include your own company in this statement?
You go source supplies for your company in Ireland. Then source the same stuff in the UK or elsewhere. Then come back to me. Lazy generalisation? Not when you've spent 3 months researching and sourcing the goods yourself and you know what you're talking about!

Cowboy

18/02/2009, 2:09 PM

You go source supplies for your company in Ireland. Then source the same stuff in the UK or elsewhere. Then come back to me. Lazy generalisation? Not when you've spent 3 months researching and sourcing the goods yourself and you know what you're talking about!

I source from suppliers both in and outside Ireland. Its a lazy generalistaion because you said "ALL" Irish companies are rip offs which you cannot possibly know to be true. 3 Months research does not make this true unless of course you have dealt with every company in Ireland.Your point would be better served if you stuck to information gained from your own experiences and not general speculation

4tothefloor

21/02/2009, 11:35 PM

I source from suppliers both in and outside Ireland. Its a lazy generalistaion because you said "ALL" Irish companies are rip offs which you cannot possibly know to be true. 3 Months research does not make this true unless of course you have dealt with every company in Ireland.Your point would be better served if you stuck to information gained from your own experiences and not general speculation
Oh you're one of those, the PC brigade.......nuff said :rolleyes::D

Bluetonic

22/02/2009, 12:32 AM

elroy

22/02/2009, 10:53 PM

These are non re-sale goods that are necessary for the running of the business. The IT system would be regarded as an asset. You simply record it as a purchase in your end of year accounts, detailing both the Euro and Sterling amounts at 0%. It is then accounted for and you do not pay VAT. This according to our accountant so I'll take his word for it!

Hmmmm not so sure about that, Im fully qualified in accounting and tax so know what im talking about and it doesnt really work that way. VAT is an EU wide tax, otherwise why would anyone ever buy goods in their own country if they could avoid VAT by purchasing from another country. If the goods in question are zero rated for VAT purposes then you're correct that no VAT is payable but that would apply whether the goods were bought in Ireland or in another EU country.

4tothefloor

22/02/2009, 11:20 PM

If the goods in question are zero rated for VAT purposes then you're correct that no VAT is payable but that would apply whether the goods were bought in Ireland or in another EU country.
Yes that's what my accountant meant, I'm not an expert hence the need for an accountant :D All I know is we won't end up paying VAT and having purchased the goods in the UK VAT free, it essentially means no VAT at all. If bought in Ireland, as well as being over charged, the VAT is paid up front therefore buying from the UK is advantageous in more ways than one

Cowboy

23/02/2009, 8:43 AM

Is that the best you can do?

Oh you're one of those, the PC brigade.......nuff said :rolleyes::D

elroy

23/02/2009, 2:34 PM

Yes that's what my accountant meant, I'm not an expert hence the need for an accountant :D All I know is we won't end up paying VAT and having purchased the goods in the UK VAT free, it essentially means no VAT at all. If bought in Ireland, as well as being over charged, the VAT is paid up front therefore buying from the UK is advantageous in more ways than one

Think we might have cross wires here but my point was that if the goods are zero rated then no VAT is payable doesnt matter whether you bought the goods from Ireland or elsewhere. However, if you buy goods from the UK or another other EU country that are not zero rated, then you are meant to be self account (ie self charge yourself VAT) so there isnt any saving of VAT in reality. Otherwise there would be a distortion of competition ie Irish supplier charging VAT, whereas English supply would be VAT free.