Spainish Perfection??

[Pike B]

Anyone who watched this game last night, I hope you feel like I do. I watched our boys grind out a result against the Georgians, then flicked over to an exhibition in the art of the Beautiful game.
Ole's every time they went over 5 passes(which was a lot), movement of position sublime, passing accuracy top class.
This is an incredible football team. And I for one hope they win the World Cup next year.
They made England look ridiculous. It was painful to watch at times. Premier League?? Your having a laugh.... ;)

P.s apologies for the mispelt title.. Spanish Perfection!! :D

[Lev Yashin]

Anyone who watched this game last night, I hope you feel like I do. I watched our boys grind out a result against the Georgians, then flicked over to an exhibition in the art of the Beautiful game.
Ole's every time they went over 5 passes(which was a lot), movement of position sublime, passing accuracy top class.
This is an incredible football team. And I for one hope they win the World Cup next year.
They made England look ridiculous. It was painful to watch at times. Premier League?? Your having a laugh.... ;)

P.s apologies for the mispelt title.. Spanish Perfection!! :D

well the best part for me was seeing torres stroll off with out picking up a knock...thank god!! :D

[Pike B]

well the best part for me was seeing torres stroll off with out picking up a knock...thank god!! :D
Now you said it!! :D
3 times in a row would have been cruel..

[osgood was good]

Anyone who watched this game last night, I hope you feel like I do. I watched our boys grind out a result against the Georgians, then flicked over to an exhibition in the art of the Beautiful game.
Ole's every time they went over 5 passes(which was a lot), movement of position sublime, passing accuracy top class.
This is an incredible football team. And I for one hope they win the World Cup next year.
They made England look ridiculous. It was painful to watch at times. Premier League?? Your having a laugh.... ;)

P.s apologies for the mispelt title.. Spanish Perfection!! :D

Yeah , have to agree they were just so organised and knew what they were doing .
Slick passing, moving the ball quickly and streets ahead of England .
Makes you realise how far England are behind .

[stojkovic]

Spain had four central midfielders on the pitch for most of the game.

And Gerrard and Lampard cant play in the same team !

[Pike B]

Spain had four central midfielders on the pitch for most of the game.

And Gerrard and Lampard cant play in the same team !
:D:D
Great point. Goes to show you what can be done when your class.
And they still have Fabregas to return!! What a team!!

[old git]

Yeah , have to agree they were just so organised and knew what they were doing .
Slick passing, moving the ball quickly and streets ahead of England .
Makes you realise how far England are behind .

more feckin worried as you realise how very far ireland are behind :mad:

[Pike B]

more feckin worried as you realise how very far ireland are behind :mad:
Very good point old git.
See you in Shannon Sunday??
Weather looks good..

[old git]

Very good point old git.
See you in Shannon Sunday??
Weather looks good..

might have to give your match a miss .. :mad: only realised
another green & white hoops playing another rangers in glasgow sunday 12.3opm live on setanta... but hopefully both rangers get stuffed :D

[Pike B]

might have to give your match a miss .. :mad: only realised
another green & white hoops playing another rangers in glasgow sunday 12.3opm live on setanta... but hopefully both rangers get stuffed :D
I'd drink to that!! :)

[Pike B]

Anyway, back to Spain.
Just had an intresting chat with an Irish and a Nigerian workmate here. We spoke about Wenger and his philosophy and how he wants to play the game in the right manner like Spain do.
We all concluded that the British and Irish way of playing the game was to be frank out of touch and old fashioned and that the only way forward was to do as the Spaniards do and pass pass pass.
In my opinion, as long as Spain,Portugal Argentina and Brazil continue to play this way, England cannot and will not succeed at any major tournament.

Also the Premiership is not as good as La Liga, as even lowly Mallorca and Betis still play a very attractive technical game of football.
My Irish colleague(A Man Utd Fan) went as far as to say 'If United played in La Liga, they'd struggle to finish in the top 4'..

I agree.

[bennocelt]

Anyway, back to Spain.
Just had an intresting chat with an Irish and a Nigerian workmate here. We spoke about Wenger and his philosophy and how he wants to play the game in the right manner like Spain do.
We all concluded that the British and Irish way of playing the game was to be frank out of touch and old fashioned and that the only way forward was to do as the Spaniards do and pass pass pass.
In my opinion, as long as Spain,Portugal Argentina and Brazil continue to play this way, England cannot and will not succeed at any major tournament.

Also the Premiership is not as good as La Liga, as even lowly Mallorca and Betis still play a very attractive technical game of football.
My Irish colleague(A Man Utd Fan) went as far as to say 'If United played in La Liga, they'd struggle to finish in the top 4'..

I agree.

the only problem with that is not all teams can "pass,pass, pass" - re O Shea et al

and didnt manure utd witn the CL? Dont spanish teams enter that comp as well
(but ur right in saying apart from the top 4/5 the EPL is dire!):)

[Pike B]

the only problem with that is not all teams can "pass,pass, pass" - re O Shea et al

and didnt manure utd witn the CL? Dont spanish teams enter that comp as well
(but ur right in saying apart from the top 4/5 the EPL is dire!):)
Well the point was made by someone else about Man Utd, but he reckons and again I agree, that in a league season, against technically solid sides instead of your Boltons, Boros and Stoke Citys, United wouldn't have it all their own way and therefore not excel.

[old git]

Well the point was made by someone else about Man Utd, but he reckons and again I agree, that in a league season, against technically solid sides instead of your Boltons, Boros and Stoke Citys, United wouldn't have it all their own way and therefore not excel.

would have to disagree here utd play a good passing game
and to think if they were playing so called better passing teams week in week out surely this would only improve their game and make them even better... but is the sign of a great team being able to adapt to different playing styles and to keep winning ... lets be honest if madrid / barcelona were playing boltons / stoke / boros etc in a league basis i'd fancy them to struggle or even to get beat the odd time :ball:

[Pike B]

would have to disagree here utd play a good passing game
and to think if they were playing so called better passing teams week in week out surely this would only improve their game and make them even better... but is the sign of a great team being able to adapt to different playing styles and to keep winning ... lets be honest if madrid / barcelona were playing boltons / stoke / boros etc in a league basis i'd fancy them to struggle or even to get beat the odd time :ball:
Maybe..

[Cymro]

I don't agree that the Premiership is of a worse standard than La Liga, in fact in terms of strength in depth it is probably slightly better. However, the football is generally more enjoyable to watch in the latter. Thankfully at Swansea we have Roberto Martinez as manager and a load of ex-Liga players in the squad (Andrea Orlandi played in Barcelona's youth team with Messi, for instance) so we get the best of both worlds. :D

[old git]

I don't agree that the Premiership is of a worse standard than La Liga, in fact in terms of strength in depth it is probably slightly better. However, the football is generally more enjoyable to watch in the latter. Thankfully at Swansea we have Roberto Martinez as manager and a load of ex-Liga players in the squad (Andrea Orlandi played in Barcelona's youth team with Messi, for instance) so we get the best of both worlds. :D

not the best last night lost 2-0 to watford :D

[Pike B]

I don't agree that the Premiership is of a worse standard than La Liga, in fact in terms of strength in depth it is probably slightly better. However, the football is generally more enjoyable to watch in the latter. Thankfully at Swansea we have Roberto Martinez as manager and a load of ex-Liga players in the squad (Andrea Orlandi played in Barcelona's youth team with Messi, for instance) so we get the best of both worlds. :D
Watched them Saturday play Fulham off the park. I'd pay to see this Swansea team. They're excellent. And very Spanish..

[Cymro]

not the best last night lost 2-0 to watford :D

mumble mumble......lists excuses for defeat, its a midweek away game, Watford have a sh*t pitch, we let them win cos we felt sorry for them etc......mumble......

[old git]

mumble mumble......lists excuses for defeat, its a midweek away game, Watford have a sh*t pitch, we let them win cos we felt sorry for them etc......mumble......

forgot bad ref mumble ... bad weather mumble .. in fairness watch match against fulham and thought ye were excellent... and fair play to manager & players for sticking to trying to play good football :ball:

[gaiscíoch]

Question is Raul the greatest signing ever made by any club?

[Pike B]

Question is Raul the greatest signing ever made by any club?
No. Not for me amigo.
I'd go with Alfredo Di Stefano. He won more..

[stojkovic]

No. Not for me amigo.
I'd go with Alfredo Di Stefano. He won more..

Di Stefano is the greatest kidnapping ever.

[Pike B]

Di Stefano is the greatest kidnapping ever.
Now that I think about it, I don't even like Raul. He's been playing poorly for the last four or five years, but is untouchable at that club.
Arragones finally had to balls to drop him from the national side and look, they win the Euros!

[lopez]

Now that I think about it, I don't even like Raul. He's been playing poorly for the last four or five years, but is untouchable at that club.
Arragones finally had to balls to drop him from the national side and look, they win the Euros!In a country where the national team was supposedly let down by the nationalist divisions of the players, Raul, the fascist apologist, was apparently the biggest nationalist sh*t stirrer going. Aragones had enough of him from Germany.

The thing I love about this team is that there is not one player who stands out as the star. Yes, they are all excellent, but look at the semi against Russia. Their best player is taken off and on course to miss the final, and his replacement comes on and plays a blinder. There are no prima donnas because they are not far off as good as each other. Capdevila is probably the 'worst' and even he set up the crucial goal against Sweden. I think if you stuck Messi, Ronaldo or Kaka in there, it would simply mess things up.

I thought England reminded me of Ireland against Georgia. Still at least they had the excuse of playing the best. Hoping Spain win the World Cup because Ireland unfortunately will be lucky to qualify.

[Cymro]

forgot bad ref mumble ... bad weather mumble .. in fairness watch match against fulham and thought ye were excellent... and fair play to manager & players for sticking to trying to play good football :ball:

Those were going to be my back ups. :)

And thanks for the compliments - we aim to please!

[Pike B]

So many great players indeed.
Compare them to the great side of late 80's 90's..
Let me have a go here...
1:Zubizarretta or Casillas??
2:Ferrer or Ramos??
3:Sergi or Capedevilla??
4:Hierro or Puyol??
5:Nadal or Marchena??
6:Guardiola or Senna??
7:Luis Enrique or Iniesta??
8:Michel or Xavi??
9:Butregueno or Torres??
10:Raul or Villa??
11:Etxeberria or Fabregas??

I would pay serious money to watch that game!!

[bennocelt]

So many great players indeed.
Compare them to the great side of late 80's 90's..
Let me have a go here...
1:Zubizarretta or Casillas??
2:Ferrer or Ramos??
3:Sergi or Capedevilla??
4:Hierro or Puyol??
5:Nadal or Marchena??
6:Guardiola or Senna??
7:Luis Enrique or Iniesta??
8:Michel or Xavi??
9:Butregueno or Torres??
10:Raul or Villa??
11:Etxeberria or Fabregas??

I would pay serious money to watch that game!!

pike
- i have to give you this one - Spain are an awesome int team - my fav players are fabregas and Senna

1:Zubizarretta or Casillas??
2:Ferrer or Ramos??
3:Sergi or Capedevilla??
4:Hierro or Puyol??
5:Nadal or Marchena??
6:Guardiola or Senna??
7:Luis Enrique or Iniesta??
8:Michel or Xavi??
9:Butregueno or Torres??
10:Raul or Villa??
11:Etxeberria or Fabregas??

so thats 6 - 7 to the present team:)

[Pike B]

pike
- i have to give you this one - Spain are an awesome int team - my fav players are fabregas and Senna

1:Zubizarretta or Casillas??
2:Ferrer or Ramos??
3:Sergi or Capedevilla??
4:Hierro or Puyol??
5:Nadal or Marchena??
6:Guardiola or Senna??
7:Luis Enrique or Iniesta??
8:Michel or Xavi??
9:Butregueno or Torres??
10:Raul or Villa??
11:Etxeberria or Fabregas??

so thats 6 - 7 to the present team:)
I'd have Hierro beat Puyol and Torres beat The Vulture..
And Guardiola over Senna. Pep was a legend.

[bennocelt]

I'd have Hierro beat Puyol and Torres beat The Vulture..
And Guardiola over Senna. Pep was a legend.

actually Hierro and Puyol are very similar IMHO, Torrres and The vulture were/are good but I still think Torres has more to do!

And Pep was good but he isnt even the best Guardiola!!!!!!

[Rovers fan]

Anyone else think puyol is slightly overrated? Hierro's better imo.

[Pike B]

Anyone else think puyol is slightly overrated? Hierro's better imo.
I disagree. I think Puyol is a bit of a Carragher. Brilliant defender, all heart, ok footballer.

Hierro however was a superb footballer.

[Mr Maroon]

Anyone else think puyol is slightly overrated? Hierro's better imo.

I agree. Puyol is over rated.

[Poor Student]

In a country where the national team was supposedly let down by the nationalist divisions of the players, Raul, the fascist apologist, was apparently the biggest nationalist sh*t stirrer going.

Is there any source on that suggestion or is that just a rumour doing the rounds? I'm not saying it's untrue, I just hadn't heard it before.

[stojkovic]

David Silva would be in the team ahead of Fabregas for a start.

[Raúl Madrid]

[QUOTE=Pike B;1109116]Now that I think about it, I don't even like Raul. He's been playing poorly for the last four or five years, but is untouchable at that club QUOTE]

In fairness, Pike B, I only played for 45 minutes tonight and I did score two absolute crackers. That's 19 for the season, all from open play (13 in La Liga)

The stats now read 311 goals for Madrid in 15 seasons (approx 21 per season), and 218 La Liga goals (just 33 off the all-time record of 251)

Only 10 of those goals have been penalties (so no padding out of my stats with spot kicks)

64 goals in the Champions League (only 1 a penalty) and 44 for the national side in 102 appearances (Torres has 18 in 59, by comparison)

In reality, even though many would pair David Villa with Torres up front as Spain's first-choice pairing, on form it should be ME and Villa up front (with Torres in reserve until he finds form again), and, at worst, I should have a spot on the bench for my country

[stojkovic]

Maybe if you dropped your fascist sympathiser tendancies you will be allowed back into the changing room.

[Raúl Madrid]

Maybe if you dropped your fascist sympathiser tendancies you will be allowed back into the changing room.

Where has all of this come from about Raul being a fascist sympathiser? I'd love to see a reliable source for that assertion ...

[Pike B]

Two outstanding goals on Sat night..
I ate humble pie for brekkie.. :(

[gaiscíoch]

Two outstanding goals on Sat night..
I ate humble pie for brekkie.. :(


Real are a great outside bet for the champions league. They could easy beat Liverpool they seem a far stronger side than before Christmas as oppose Liverpool who seem to have gotten weaker?


Raul's is one of the best signing ever made by any club. No doubt about it. For a free transfer player to break as many records he has is unbelievable.

[Pike B]

I do worry about us to be honest. We are in very poor form where as Real as you said are on fire.
Still, I am confident. 1-1 Wed, 0-0 two weeks. Pool through on agg. :D

[lopez]

Is there any source on that suggestion or is that just a rumour doing the rounds? I'm not saying it's untrue, I just hadn't heard it before.Sorry for not replying but I didn't get an email reminding me about this thread.

It was - I think - Phil Ball in When Saturday Comes in the post EC issue (July or August). Ball has written Morbo and White Storm and criticised Jimmy Burns's book on Barcelona as basically 'Barca good. Real very, very, bad'. Hardly a contrarealista. Raul, according to Ball, was walking around in a strop in Germany two years ago. Aragones had a belly full of him and wanted a team that, in Ball's words, 'got along together'. Ball suggested that Raul was the only 'nationalist' in the team. In contrast Fabregas was too young to care, Xavi couldn't care less, and all Puyol was interested in was listening to the Ramones. Ball also mentions an incident where Raul publicly undermined Aragones. It explains why Aragones put up with a lot of pressure not to have him in the squad.

As for fascist apologist, Raul (along with Figo and Salgado) is pictured in the Ultra Sur fanzine posing with what is at best a peculiar distortion of the Spanish flag. Photos I saw were published in 'Diario de un skin', Antonio Salas' diary of his undercover investigation into Spanish neo nazis.

The article cannot be found on the WSC website.

[Pike B]

Real Madrid..


With the national team being so amazing, it is shocking to see how poor it's greatest club have become. Too many overhyped overated players on their books and a shadow of the great Zizou lead team of 2001.

Spain : Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Capedevilla, Puyol, Marchena, Senna, Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Villa, Torres..
Madrid: Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Heinze, Cannavaro, Pepe, Gago, Sneijder, Diarra, Robben, Raul, Huntelaar..

I think Madrid always had a good say in the national team, now it's a poor look out.
And I personally wouldn't have Sergio Ramos anywhere near my squad if I were manager of Spain.
So really it's just Casillas.
Where did it all go wrong??

[gustavo]

Real Madrid..


With the national team being so amazing, it is shocking to see how poor it's greatest club have become. Too many overhyped overated players on their books and a shadow of the great Zizou lead team of 2001.

Because they lost to an English team ?

Come on

They've gone out at this stage of the competition the last few years but I suppose if it's not against an English team it doesnt count

Incidentally they still went on to win the league over the mighty Barcelona the last 2 seasons despite not making it to the last 8 in Europe both times.

[Pike B]

Because they lost to an English team ?

Come on

They've gone out at this stage of the competition the last few years but I suppose if it's not against an English team it doesnt count

Incidentally they still went on to win the league over the mighty Barcelona the last 2 seasons despite not making it to the last 8 in Europe both times.
What are you babbling about man?? Show me where I said anything about an English team?
I am simply saying that in comparison to previous generations, this Madrid side have very little bearing on the National team. Thats my point. In plain English. Stop looking for an arguement.
I had enough of that yesterday off your chums in the CL thread.

[gustavo]

What are you babbling about man?? Show me where I said anything about an English team?
I am simply saying that in comparison to previous generations, this Madrid side have very little bearing on the National team. Thats my point. In plain English. Stop looking for an arguement.
I had enough of that yesterday off your chums in the CL thread.


It's a discussion forum

People discuss things

Not looking for "arguement"

[Pike B]

It's a discussion forum

People discuss things

Not looking for "arguement"
Fair enough Gus. Your an ok member from what I can see, but if you want to discuss something then discuss what I post, not what you asume I'm thinking. Contrary to popular belief I am actually intelligent!! :D

My point as I stated above was not that Madrid are crap cos they lost to my beloved Reds, but simply weaker than the team my hero Zizou played in, and not anywhere near the influence on the great Spainish national team we see today.

Thats it!!

[gustavo]

Fair enough Gus. Your an ok member from what I can see, but if you want to discuss something then discuss what I post, not what you asume I'm thinking. Contrary to popular belief I am actually intelligent!! :D

My point as I stated above was not that Madrid are crap cos they lost to my beloved Reds, but simply weaker than the team my hero Zizou played in, and not anywhere near the influence on the great Spainish national team we see today.

Thats it!!
Well fair enough

These things are cyclical though

I mean Liverpool only have 1 English player active in the England squad as far as I can see and they are doing ok!

[Pike B]

Well fair enough

These things are cyclical though

I mean Liverpool only have 1 English player active in the England squad as far as I can see and they are doing ok!
Very good point. But then England are nowhere near Spain in terms of quality in my opinion. As the recent friendly suggested.

It's the way of the game these days I suppose, for top clubs to be full of foreigners.
Still, Madrid can continue as they are if it means Spain keep playing as they have for the last two years. I have never been so impressed with a national side over so long a period.
Maybe France 1998-2000.

[lopez]

From the first leg, Real Madrid had three Spanish players in the starting line up and a Spanish manager that took over from a German midway through the season. Liverpool had FIVE Spanish players in the starting line up and a Spanish manager that's been there almost four years.