Why are Derry in the eL?

[UCD_4_Life]

This isn't meant to be a knock on Derry at all, I was just wondering how it came about that they're in the League of Ireland rather than in the Irish League.

[dortie]

Originally posted by UCD_4_Life
This isn't meant to be a knock on Derry at all, I was just wondering how it came about that they're in the League of Ireland rather than in the Irish League.

You must not be around football circles very long or youve just been ignorant of the fact.

We got thrown out of the Irish 'sectarian' league in 1972 by the Irish league management committee. Teams such as Crusaders, Ards, Glenavon, Distillery and of course Linfield voted that we could not return to play our home games at the Brandywell because of potential trouble (even though Linfield and co were involved in violence and bigotry every week)....they suggested we play in Coleraine......

There is far too much to go over on this post but to cut a long story short they despised us with their bigotry for years and got the chance to shaft us after a few supporters set fire to the Ballymena Utd bus. We were left in the wilderness for 13 years before applying and being accepted by the FAI....it made sense and to date the club has never looked back with 99% of fans vowing NEVER to even consider going back to the IFA.

Fact is...personally we feel at home in the eircom league and thats the way it will remain.

BTW We won the Irish premier league once and the IFA cup 3 times

Some of the older Derry fans can tell you many stories of our time in that infested league.

[James]

Originally posted by dortie
Fact is...personally we feel at home in the eircom league and thats the way it will remain.

and next year ye can feel at home in the 1st division :)

[Estar]

Originally posted by UCD_4_Life
This isn't meant to be a knock on Derry at all, I was just wondering how it came about that they're in the League of Ireland rather than in the Irish League.

I'd say History is not one of your better subjects. :D

[brandy86]

Originally posted by UCD_4_Life
This isn't meant to be a knock on Derry at all, I was just wondering how it came about that they're in the League of Ireland rather than in the Irish League.

This was posted by a Derry Supporter on another forum,it might help you to understand!

Derry City and their withdrawel from the IL.
Part 1

I have said a few times in the past that I would tell you about Derry City’s exit from the IL. So here are the facts. Not a bias slant, just the facts and the events that led up to our withdrawal from the Irish League. Make of it as you will.

Many reasons have been given here as to why Derry City play their football in the eL rather than the IL. Some are close to the truth while some others are so far out you wonder where it comes from. So if you bear with me I’ll do my best to explain the reasons why we did end up out of the IL.

First let me take you back prior to the ‘troubles’. Whenever we played a cup game against a Belfast team, if it went to a replay, it would inevitably have to be played in Belfast. It took Derry years and years of arguing with the IFA about the unfairness in that before the IFA climbed down. However instead of these games being played in the obvious choice of Coleraine, the games were played in Ballymena, which is about 2/3 way to Belfast.

In 1964 we won the cup and thus qualified for Europe. In the first round we played Steaua Bucharest and were beaten 5-0 on aggregate. That same year we won the league, and that meant that the following year we would be back playing in Europe. This time we drew the Norwegian team FK Lynn. In the first game we were beaten 5-3 in Oslo. The return leg in the Brandywell was played in very bad weather. It had rained incessantly from the previous day, but that didn’t stop a full house watch Derry City win 5-1 and be the first team in the IL to win a two legged European Cup tie. The fans went home drenched, but delighted, what they didn’t know was that there were forces at work out there, who would deny Derry their night of glory.

In the next round Derry drew Belgium champions Anderlecht. As soon as the draw was made, the IFA let it be made known that the Brandywell pitch would be inspected before the game would be allowed to be played. Only six members of the committee turned up, and on the night the IFA debated the issue, they refused to let the Derry City representative attend the meeting, The committee recommended to the European Union that Derry City be banned from playing their home games at the Brandywell. Derry of course reacted in anger and said, “No Brandywell, No match.”
Now Anderlecht visited the Brandywell and said they had no bother with the Brandywell pitch. One of their officials had claimed that in another Eoropean game, they had played on a pitch of cinders. The EU had no problems with Derry playing at home, they said it was up to the IFA. The IFA stood by their decision, and after the first leg in Belgium, where Derry were beaten 9-0, they withdrew from the competition. What was so angering was the fact that the year before when Derry played Steaua and were beaten, the Brandywell wasn’t a problem, but as soon as they won a game they were banned by their own association. A first in the history of European football.

By 1969 trouble had erupted all over the North , British troops had entered Derry to restore calm. Because of the ban on the RUC and British military entering the Bogside, the IFA banned all games at the Brandywell, because they couldn’t be policed adequately. Derry played 10 successive games away from home and the club lost a lot of revenue.

Part 2

Harry Cavan made a statement saying that there was no bias towards Derry City, and that they could again play in Europe, as soon as their ground was brought up to standard. However he was not prepared to tell anyone what that standard was.
On Sept 25th the IL vetoed a Gold Cup against Ards. The Derry Citizens Action Committee guaranteed they would provide stewards for the game, and Ards to their credit, said the would play, but the IL wouldn’t listen. On Oct 18th Derry played their first home game against Ards, in the IL. But when Derry drew Linfield in the semi-final of the cup, Derry were amazed to be told that they had to travel to the Oval for the game. A very low gate of £900, showed how angry the Derry supporters were. The game was marred by hooligans from a section of the Linfield support, who poured into the empty seats in the main stand, and abused Derry fans with sectarian ranting. For the record, Linfield won 2-1.
Derry’s home league game against Linfield, was moved by the IFA to Coleraine. The reason given for that was that their MIGHT be repercussions against the Linfield supporters, for their behaviour in the cup-tie. And to rub it in, the IFA ordered Derry to pay Linfield £75, guaranteed to away teams. The gate was only £70, and of course Derry lost heavily. So the disgraceful behaviour of the Linfield hooligans was rewarded by the IFA.

The following season, The Security Council banned home games against the Glens and Linfield. This again angered Derry, for they found it incredulous that they were being told, that it wasn’t safe for Glentoran and Linfield supporters to come to the Brandywell, but it was ok for Derry supporters to go to Windsor and East Belfast. Derry played six away games before they played their first home game at the Brandywell.

On Nov the SC amazingly decided that Derry should play Linfield in Windsor Park. Derry refused to travel, as they said their players would be at risk, and couldn’t accept that their players were in no danger. The Irish League Rules Revision Committee (there’s a mouthful) accepted Derry’s reason for not travelling. But then ordered Derry to pay Linfield £300 and awarded the 2 points to Linfield.. Amazing. But just another nail in the coffin.

Again Linfield were Derry’s opponents in the semi-final of the cup, but this time the IFA relented and played the game at Coleraine. This was Derry’s last cup game against Linfield, For the record Derry won 1-0.
Derry faced Distillery in the final, and a major shock was, that Windsor was appointed as the venue. No amount of protest would budge the IFA, they were implacable, so under duress Derry went ahead with the game.
This match became known as ‘The Silent Final’, Derry sold only 150 of 2000 stand tickets. What a contrast from the 28000 who watched the 1964 final against Glentoran. Harry Cavan also let it be known, that if Derry won the Cup they would not be allowed to play in Europe.
Again the IFA showed they had absolutely no sympathy for Derry when they ordered them to play their postponed game against Linfield at Windsor Pk.

In season 70-71, after three successive games at home Derry played Ballymena Utd. During the game, and unnoticed to those who were attending the game, a gang entered

[brandy86]

Part 3

the adjoining Showgrounds. There they took the Ballymena team bus, pushed it along the Lone Moor Road and on to Foyle Road, where they set it alight. This was to have disastrous consequences for Derry City, and was the start of the countdown to the demise of Derry City in the IL. Ballymena and their official were magnanimous in their praise of Derry City and their official who got them transport to take them home. Many then jumped on the bandwagon and demanded a ban of all games in the Brandywell. The IFA quickly accepted the ban.

City tried to arrange to have their home games in the mean time played in Limavady, but ‘other interests’ in Limavady let it be known they would not be welcome. Derry then asked if they could use Finn Harps ground in Ballybofey, but that also was turned down, by the IFA.
In the meantime Coleraine, offered their ground, and as Derry had no alternative, they accepted.

When Derry were drawn at ‘home’ against Ballyclare Comrades in the Cup the IFA acted like something straight out of the comics. Coleraine were drawn against Distillery who were also homeless. They were supposed to play the game in Seaview, But Cruasaders were also drawn at home, so Distillery had to play their ‘home’ game in Coleraine, and Derry had to play their ‘home’ game in Ballyclare. Again the hostility of the home crowd was very perceptible.

On Aug 7th, the following season, the security forces and the IFA indicated they were ready to let games resume at the Brandywell. But the IL announced that it was not safe security wise. In other words, they were telling the security forces that they knew better than them. To spotlight the intransigence of the IL was the fact that the Derry City Greyhound Racing Company had commenced ‘the dogs’ and there had been no difficulty getting breeders from all over the north to participate. On Sept 6th Derry were informed officially by the security authorities in the city that as far they were concerned competitive senior soccer could be played at the Brandywell. Derry immediately despatched a letter to the Emergency Committee of the League, informing them of the security decision. Was that the end of it, was it hell.

The Emergency Committee replied to the letter be informing Derry that their registered ground was Coleraine. What a slap in the face. Derry naturally reacted by telling them, that like seven years earlier, “No Brandywell, no match”. The IFA in returned ordered Derry to play their ‘home’ game against Bangor in Coleraine. Derry simply said “No”…..”The next move is up to the League”.
Derry continued to play their away games, but it was getting more futile. Then the IL made an announcement, that a special meeting would be held by the Irish League Management Committee on Oct 7th. What had happened was, that Portadown asked the IL to rescind the ban on matches art the Brandywell

At the meeting a vote was held among the senior teams. For going back to play at the Brandywell were, Portadown (the proposers) Bangor, Cliftonville, Ballymena Utd, and naturally Derry themselves. Against the motion were, Linfield, Glentoran, Crusaders, Ards, Glenavon and unbelievably Distillery. Our neighbours Coleraine abstained

Final part.

That night we found out who really were our friends.

On Friday Oct 13th, the Derry Board met. The decision was to withdraw from the Irish League, and all it’s other competitions. The decision was unanimous.
Derry City remained out of senior soccer for 13 years, until they were welcomed into the eL.

I hope this clears up some of the different opinions that have been knocked around about City’s exit from the IL. I would ask you to think how would you feel if your club was treated as shamelessly as we were. Imagine being banned from playing in Europe by your own association. We the people in Derry know that the reasons for banning not only from Europe, but also from participating in senior soccer was taken for sectarian reasons and for sectarian reasons only. Just look at the amount of trouble there has been in IL grounds over the years, and ask yourself what punishment did the clubs receive.

Now on hindsight we have to say we owe Harry Cavan and his IL a big thank you for forcing us out. Last night we played a derby game against Finn Harps. The stand was packed by Derry City and Finn Harps supporters. We stood together, we cheered our respective teams together, and we left the ground together. That could, and would not happen if we were in the IL.
Now we are being told that things have changed form those days in the IL. Maybe they have, but there is an awful lot of bitterness on this forum directed at us for no other reason, than that we are perceived to be a nationalist team.(This does not apply to all on this forum)
Have they IFA moved on? For years they refused entry to the League to Donegal Celtic and Lurgan Celtic. They were by-passed for inferior teams, and were only allowed entry to the IL on the week they were to go court over it. Why, was it because they also were nationalist teams.
There are good people in the IL and we were treated very well By Billy Mc Cowbrey a few years ago when we played Linfield in a Charity game for one of their players. We of course would love to be playing Portadown and the Glens, but not at the expense of having to do away with our games against Shels, Pats or the Bohs. Maybe in the not too distant future this will happen, but just not at the minute.

Hope I haven’t bored you all, but I just thought there may be some things here that may be of interest to some of you.

Ps Sorry about the way this is posted, but it was too long to get it all in one post

[pete]

Hows about an executive summary ;)

[joeSoap]

congrats brandy86...that was probably the most informative post I've ever read here..

[brandy86]

Originally posted by joeSoap
congrats brandy86...that was probably the most informative post I've ever read here..

Hey, dont thank me, as i said i didnt write it! It was written by a man called Davy Doherty a true Derry City Supporter on the Irish League Forums!
I just thought i'd post it here, so those of you who wern't sure why we left the Irish League could understand our reasons for joining the Eircom League, and as Davy said in his post they done us a favour by treating us the way they did! We are more than happy to be where we are!
I hope this post clears up a few questions that some of you might have had!

[patsh]

What a shame and a loss it will be for the league if Derry are relegated..... :(
What an absolute disgrace if they get replaced by such a nonentity as Dublin City..........:rolleyes:

[ger121]

I know this might sound stupid but I always thought Derry left the IL coz they were to good for it and wanted to play at a higher level. I now know different. Will be a shame if you go down. Will Derry go down to Division 1 or will they go back to the IL. Surely being in Division 1 could be a financial disaster for the club???

[brendy_éire]

Originally posted by ger121
Will be a shame if you go down. Will Derry go down to Division 1 or will they go back to the IL. Surely being in Division 1 could be a financial disaster for the club???

Division 1.
NEVER EVER will we play in the IL again!

[Rocky]

Just like to know. Why do Cliftonville and Newry not have so many problems in the IL? Surely they should also join the EL?

[A face]

Originally posted by Rocky
Just like to know. Why do Cliftonville and Newry not have so many problems in the IL? Surely they should also join the EL?

Dunno .... but i'd like to know !!

[dortie]

Because they have a very very small fan base !

[A face]

Originally posted by dortie
Because they have a very very small fan base !

That isn't a good reason not to join though.

And surely the fan base would increase in the bigger league.

Anyway ... I reckon both leagues should merge, clubs joining in ones and twos would be no good.

[brendy_éire]

Originally posted by A face
That isn't a good reason not to join though.

And surely the fan base would increase in the bigger league.

Anyway ... I reckon both leagues should merge

Would be brilliant, but won't happen anytime soon. There are too many IL fans opposed to playing with 'foreign' teams. Best that could be hoped for in the short run is some sort of cup competition.

[dortie]

Originally posted by A face
That isn't a good reason not to join though.




I was refering to the post that asked why they dont seem to have any trouble at games...........i'll say it again, because they have a tiny support base.

And i totally agree on an All-Ireland league.....but i can tell you the Irish league and the majority of their followers are too small minded and bigoted to go for it.

[Rocky]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dortie
[B]I was refering to the post that asked why they dont seem to have any trouble at games...........i'll say it again, because they have a tiny support base.

However I have seen before that Cliftonville have had problems. For example their supporters have been stopped from entering grounds. I remember 1 occasion where at the end of the game, after their supporters were refused, the players bowing to the empty terraces as a protest!

I have also seen a few things at Windsor over the years against Cliftonville. Don't know much about Newry though!

[Robinski]

I knew Derry had been treated badly by the IFA but I didn't know to what extent. Shameless.

Excellent thread guys.

[Dassa]

Have they IFA moved on? For years they refused entry to the League to Donegal Celtic and Lurgan Celtic. They were by-passed for inferior teams, and were only allowed entry to the IL on the week they were to go court over it. Why, was it because they also were nationalist teams.


Just started reading this piece today on DCFC exit from the IL as a young IL fan cant remember that far back into what happened, but is a very good piece. But on the point I highlighted it was not only these teams that were denied access to the IL. My own team Loughgall won the league three years in a row and were prevented from stepping up to the IL 1st division with other teams promoted ahead of us and little reasons given. My team were not what you would call a nationalist supported team so I am just trying to show that exclusion from the IL was not just something that happened to these "nationalist sides".

[Anto McC]

I said it before about Derry and i'll say it again.............Talk about over staying your welcome.

Derry are squatters and no more :D

[Speranza]

My god Anto should you really not be in bed, it's a schoolday tomorrow.

$hels are trying to get their greasy mits on the home of Irish soccer and City are the squatters. To reverse your own thinking - jealous? bitter? :confused:

[dcfcsteve]

Just like to know. Why do Cliftonville and Newry not have so many problems in the IL? Surely they should also join the EL?

NEWRY
Newry Town (now City) didn't join the Irish League until well after the worst of the Troubles (I think they joined in the mid 90's ?). Anyways - Newry was never an epi-centre of the Troubles anyway, so even if they had been around at that time, it's unlikely anything would've happened to put them in a questionable spot re the IL.

CLIFTONVILLE
Cliftonville did suffer the odd unfair treatment at the hands of the IL/IFA. They were forced to play all 'home' games against Linfield at Windsor Park until very recently - even years after everyone outside of the Irish League had agreed that there was no justifiable security reason for forcing them to do so. This ban was only lifted c.5 years ago. And there was never an incident that the IFA/IL was willing/able to latch onto to punish Cliftonville, if they so desired.

As there are plenty of Irish League grounds in Belfast, Cliftonville beign forced to play home games away form Solitude was never going to pose them problems. Conversely, with Derry's nearest league ground at the time being 40 miles away in Coleraine, we were never going to be able to survive any ban on our home ground.

BELFAST CELTIC
Belfast Celtic faced wel-publcised problems with the IFA/IL in regards to equity of treatment, which was the ostensible reason given for their withdrawal form the league in 1948.

DONEGAL CELTIC & LURGAN CELTIC
Donegal Celtic encountered a series of problems with the IFA/IL prior to their finally joining the league - particularly blatantly unbalanced treatment in relation to crowd-violence at a Cup game they had against Linfield in Windsor the late 1980's, that led to them publically stating that they would never enter the Irish Cup again. For the record - that game also saw the outrageous crowd-control tactic from the RUC of firing plastic bullets into a crowded football stand (though interestingly, only at the Donegal Celtic fans...). Donegal Celtic and Lurgan Celtic also made numerous requests to join the Irish league that were continually rejected. Eventually, with court action threatened, both were finally allowed entry for the 2002/3 season.
------------------------

To correct one very important error in Dortie's first post on this thread - the Ballymena team bus that was hijacked and burnt outside the Brandywell in 1972 was NOT done so by supporters. It happened in the middle of the game by local hoods who came into the car park to the side of the Stadium (a few minutes walk from the stadium-proper itself). All the supporters were inside watching the game ! This is a crucial point - the act was indicative of the time as Northen Ireland lurched to the edge of Civil War. It most certainly was not an act of hooliganism by Derry City suppoprters

[sfc red]

Shels...supporters renowned for being young...

BRAVO Speranza, EXCELLENT joke. Pity you made yourself look juvenile with such a STUPID STUPID comment. No other word for it.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha.

Its funny how its always the idiots that post on forums and not the decent people you actually end up meeting at these grounds. Talk about giving your supporters a bad name.

[dcfcsteve]

Shels...supporters renowned for being young...

BRAVO Speranza, EXCELLENT joke. Pity you made yourself look juvenile with such a STUPID STUPID comment. No other word for it.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha.

Its funny how its always the idiots that post on forums and not the decent people you actually end up meeting at these grounds. Talk about giving your supporters a bad name.

To be fair SFC Red - that's one of the lamest retorts I've ever read on here.... :eek:

[Dassa]

DONEGAL CELTIC & LURGAN CELTIC
Donegal Celtic and Lurgan Celtic also made numerous requests to join the Irish league that were continually rejected.

as mentioned before by me Loughgall the club i support also applied year in year out to gain access and were refused and we werent a nationalist club so would that decision also be based on religion?. And we were in a much better situation than the 2 celtics which im delighted to see in IL1 and 2 respectively.

[NY Hoop]

[QUOTE=dcfcsteve
CLIFTONVILLE
Cliftonville did suffer the odd unfair treatment at the hands of the IL/IFA. They were forced to play all 'home' games against Linfield at Windsor Park until very recently - even years after everyone outside of the Irish League had agreed that there was no justifiable security reason for forcing them to do so. This ban was only lifted c.5 years ago.

That stupid ban was finally lifted the season Climville were Champions and the first game back in Solitude was a 1-1 draw played in November 1998.

The day they won the league they played their game an hour before the rest of the fixtures for some unexplained reason.

Bizarre that this thread is back again after more than 2 years..........

KOH

[Dassa]

yeah it was me who brought it back. was the first time I had read the posts and thought it was pretty good. good to hear a DCFC perspective on what had happened.

[NY Hoop]

No worries.

Great result sat! BTW is there a bar in your ground?

KOH

[dcfcsteve]

as mentioned before by me Loughgall the club i support also applied year in year out to gain access and were refused and we werent a nationalist club so would that decision also be based on religion?. And we were in a much better situation than the 2 celtics which im delighted to see in IL1 and 2 respectively.

You're right Dassa. However - a refusal to let Loughall into the league appears to have been a single-issue approach regarding that club.

Decisions were made regarding Donegal Celtic on more than just the league membership issue, and they seemed to follow more of an overall trend - one which, when viewed in the context of the IFA/IL approach towards other supposedly 'nationalist' clubs over many decades, makes it easy to suspect non-footballing considerations may have been at play.

[Dassa]

take your point dcfcsteve but the issues against loughgall whatever they were and someone knows why were not football related either. was just trying to show those not to well aware of IL that injustices dont just happen against "nationalist" clubs. hate labelling a football club with a political slant so sorry about term "nationalist".

Yeah loughgall do have a bar. the ground is pretty good actually for the size of village that we have. and Im sure it will be rammed tomorrow night. there will be alot of lonely women left at home on valentines night:)

heres a link to show you what the clubs like NY Hoop
http://www.loughgallfc.org/

[Anto McC]

My god Anto should you really not be in bed, it's a schoolday tomorrow.

$hels are trying to get their greasy mits on the home of Irish soccer and City are the squatters. To reverse your own thinking - jealous? bitter? :confused:

I finished my full schooling roughly 6 years ago so no!

I personally DO NOT EVER want to move to Daylier,if the clubs goes i will follow them though,now go back where you came from

[Aaron]

I said it before about Derry and i'll say it again.............Talk about over staying your welcome.

Derry are squatters and no more



MUPPET!:mad:

[OneRedArmy]

now go back where you came fromWe`re still playing at the Brandywell, where we always have done.

Why don`t you try going back where you came from? After all you seem to gain 20k fans when you play in Dublin 4....

[CuanaD]

Im sure it will be rammed tomorrow night. there will be alot of lonely women left at home on valentines night:)
:D :lol: only right too - football's more important! ;)



Good website that is too

[Dassa]

Doubt they will see it that way.

[Anto McC]

We`re still playing at the Brandywell, where we always have done.

Why don`t you try going back where you came from? After all you seem to gain 20k fans when you play in Dublin 4....

Thats true but in a different league as you well know!

Im happy with that i live 10 minutes away from there but it looks like Daylier which i am 15 minutes away from so either way im good :)

[dcfcsteve]

Thats true but in a different league as you well know!

Well Anto - given that, as with the vast majority of Shels fans, you're probably under the age of 30 (nay 25), I'll give you a clearly much-needed wee history lesson about your very own football club.

I think you'll find that Shelbourne ALSO played in the Irish League - until 1921, when you left to join/help form the Football League of Ireland. Just like Derry City played in the Irish League, and then joined/helped to form the Football league of Ireland First Division in 1985.

So both our teams started life in the Irish League, and both are now in the Eircom league. How lovely. All of which is frankly irrelevant - except in making your posts look rather stupid.... :D

"Oi Shels - feck off back to the Irish league where you belong....!" :D

[BohDiddley]

"Oi Shels - feck off back to the Irish league where you belong....!" :D
And to Ringsend while you're at it! :D

[dcfcsteve]

And to Ringsend while you're at it! :D

Need I remind you BohDiddley that your team is also a former Irish League club....? :p

[BohDiddley]

Need I remind you BohDiddley that your team is also a former Irish League club....? :p
Thank you DCS. I think I can deal with that.