Trappatoni Selection Issues [article]

[Scram]

Trappatoni Selection Issues (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/features/irelandform.html)

There have been some turbulent times for the Irish players across the water in recent weeks, with long-drawn transfers and difficulties securing regular football not just being restricted to Robbie Keane.

Ahead of the crucial World Cup qualifier against Georgia on Wednesday, Rory Houston looks at their form and some of the selection issues Giovanni Trapattoni faces this week.

The Defence is the greatest worry. No stability and as I have said before, O'Shea at Centre Back is his worst position, but we are short on options.

[tetsujin1979]

The only real selection problem is in central midfield, it's going to be 2 from Gibson/Whelan/Andrews
I think it'll line out


Given
Kelly Dunne O'Shea Kilbane
McGeady Gibson/Whelan/Andrews Duff
Keane Doyle

[zenokelly]

The only real selection problem is in central midfield, it's going to be 2 from Gibson/Whelan/Andrews
I think it'll line out


Given
Kelly Dunne O'Shea Kilbane
McGeady Gibson/Whelan/Andrews Duff
Keane Doyle

Ya thats the team I'd pick with Andrews and Whelan in the centre.

I don't like to say it but it wouldn't harm our chances if McShane wasn't available, fingers crossed

[Colbert Report]

I'd love to see Carsley paired with Andrews in the middle of the park, but seeing as he isn't in the squad here is how I see them lining out on Wednesday:

Given
Kelly-O'Shea-Dunne-Kilbane
McGeady-Whelan-Gibson-Duff
Keane-Doyle

He might surprise us and throw Andrews in instead of Gibson, but I doubt it. Stephen Hunt is a decent option to be introduced off the bench.

[NeilMcD]

Trappatoni Selection Issues (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/features/irelandform.html)

There have been some turbulent times for the Irish players across the water in recent weeks, with long-drawn transfers and difficulties securing regular football not just being restricted to Robbie Keane.

Ahead of the crucial World Cup qualifier against Georgia on Wednesday, Rory Houston looks at their form and some of the selection issues Giovanni Trapattoni faces this week.

The Defence is the greatest worry. No stability and as I have said before, O'Shea at Centre Back is his worst position, but we are short on options.

Very Harsh on John O Shea. Are defence has played well so far. They were really good away to Montenegro. O Shea and Dunne have been very good for us in the first 3 games so far.

[Wexford Delboy]

is kilbane still undropable?made a shocking mistake against chelsea the weekend

[Razors left peg]

is kilbane still undropable?made a shocking mistake against chelsea the weekend

He basically is until we get another option in that position

[drummerboy]

Reckon he will start with McShane at full back instead of Kelly. Kelly has hardly played this season.

[Dr. Ogba]

why is everyone talking about Kelly for right full? on form Kevin Foley should be the backup to Finnan...

[irishfan86]

why is everyone talking about Kelly for right full? on form Kevin Foley should be the backup to Finnan...

And St. Ledger should probably be our backup to Dunne/O'Shea.

Kelly has hardly played, but perhaps his experience may be better in a World Cup Qualifier.

I think McShane will be given every chance to prove his fitness, but if his hamstring isn't up to it, it's anybody's guess who will slot in.

I wouldn't even rule out Bruce coming into centre-half and O'Shea moving to right-back. :eek:

Personally, I'll be happy with any one of Kelly, Foley, or Nolan slotting in at right-back.

[as_i_say]

is kilbane still undropable?made a shocking mistake against chelsea the weekend

He mis-controlled the ball in an attacking situation and then bust a gut trying to make up for it. I'd hardly call it a shocking error for a defender to to that whilst attacking.

No mention of his marvellous headed effort that nearly crept in? Still the best we have in the position, still breaks his back for the team.

[Dodge]

I'd love to see Carsley paired with Andrews in the middle of the park, but seeing as he isn't in the squad here is how I see them lining out on Wednesday:


Watched him for Birmingham at the weekend. He was absolutely shocking. Completely off the pace and couldn't make simple 10 yard passes. Talking to Birmingham fans he's been like that for months

[Junior]

He mis-controlled the ball in an attacking situation and then bust a gut trying to make up for it. I'd hardly call it a shocking error for a defender to to that whilst attacking.

No mention of his marvellous headed effort that nearly crept in? Still the best we have in the position, still breaks his back for the team.

Here Here!!

[ParkLife]

Is it just me or does John OShea seem to have improved an awful lot lately?? Watching him in his last few games for united he seems alot more confident on the ball, and alot more likely to make an intelligent pass.....

[DeLorean]

Watched him for Birmingham at the weekend. He was absolutely shocking. Completely off the pace and couldn't make simple 10 yard passes. Talking to Birmingham fans he's been like that for months

Any time I've seen Birmingham this season he's been one of thier top performers. It hasn't been an awful lot, didn't see them at the wkd.

[Dodge]

And they've only been on TV once this year (and he wasn't great in that)

I'd definitely take the word of their fans on this one

[ChrisRed]

Delaney is playing well at the moment in a QPR side who have kept 4 clean sheets in 6 league matches, against sides like Reading, Derby & Burnley. Wouldnt mind seeing him given the chance although lacks international expierience although if we're talking about Foley etc......

[DeLorean]

And they've only been on TV once this year (and he wasn't great in that)

I'd definitely take the word of their fans on this one

This yr as in 2009 or do u mean this season? they've definitely been televised more than that this season. I thought that it was generally accepted that he was playing well there.

[Dodge]

I meant 2009. Have a read of their forums (I've been checking on fahey). The vast majority of their fans think Carsley is finished. He was very poor on Saturday

[geysir]

It hasn't been all poor performances for Carsley this season.
Only a few games ago.

December`s contenders for PFA Fans` Player of the Month Award
Championship:
Kevin Phillips - Birmingham City
Lee Carsley - Birmingham City
Julian Speroni - Crystal Palace
Kevin Doyle - Reading
Sylvan Ebanks-Blake - Wolves

[Dodge]

In fairness most did say he's been a good player for them, just off his game for a couple of months (and football fans have short memories)

[Scram]

The only real selection problem is in central midfield, it's going to be 2 from Gibson/Whelan/Andrews
I think it'll line out


Given
Kelly Dunne O'Shea Kilbane
McGeady Gibson/Whelan/Andrews Duff
Keane Doyle

I'd call O'Shea at centre, Kilbane at left and Kelly at right...selection problems! Dunne is the only real first choice available out of all those positions. If all fit shouldn't it be Finnan, McShane, Dunne, O' Shea ?

[Scram]

Very Harsh on John O Shea. Are defence has played well so far. They were really good away to Montenegro. O Shea and Dunne have been very good for us in the first 3 games so far.

He is right, O'Shea has been mediocre in that position and it is his worst position.

[elroy]

I think O'Shea has been very good for United this season. Very solid at the back, doesnt offer as much going forward as Evra does but then not many left backs are.

Judging by the papers yesterday, it appears that Trap has signalled that he going to start with Andrews.

[Razors left peg]

He is right, O'Shea has been mediocre in that position and it is his worst position.

Thats rubbish, O Shea has been excellent so far under Trap.

[Manc Irish Wolf]

Foley simply has to play - he is a lot more accomplished full back than Kelly. Shows a complete lack of short-sightedness on the behalf of the management if he doesn't get the nod due to a lack of experience, when the last friendly game was crying our for his inclusion so that we're not faced with this inexperienced vs unfit full back dilemma. Confident that he'd do a good job.

[NeilMcD]

O Shea was immense in Montenegro and would have been close to my man of the match for Ireland. I think centre back beside Dunne for Ireland is his position and I am glad that Trap sees it that way. There is one thing that Trap knows about and that is how to create a solid defence.

[DeLorean]

Thats rubbish, O Shea has been excellent so far under Trap.

Yes, I'm not sure why people are saying it's his worst position cos he's done well there in this campaign for Ireland and never ever plays there for United. In fact even when Ferdinand, Brown and Evans were all injured Fergie chose Neville to play there and leave O'Shea at full back. Granted this may be because Fergie doesn't trust him at centre back but he has been impressive enough for us so if it's not broken...

[Razors left peg]

Yes, I'm not sure why people are saying it's his worst position cos he's done well there in this campaign for Ireland and never ever plays there for United. In fact even when Ferdinand, Brown and Evans were all injured Fergie chose Neville to play there and leave O'Shea at full back. Granted this may be because Fergie doesn't trust him at centre back but he has been impressive enough for us so if it's not broken...

I think the simple fact is that some people will always just say that O Shea is rubbish no matter how well he is playing now or in the future. He played well enough under Trap to be nominated as player of the year, and while that might have been a little OTT it is just a sign of how solid he has been

[tetsujin1979]

I'd call O'Shea at centre, Kilbane at left and Kelly at right...selection problems! Dunne is the only real first choice available out of all those positions. If all fit shouldn't it be Finnan, McShane, Dunne, O' Shea ?
Finnan's not the squad, McShane is injured and O'Shea hasn't played at left full under Trapattoni in any of the competitive games. There's no way in hell he'll play there on wednesday.

[Stuttgart88]

Some people will never give O'Shea any credit. He & Dunne have formed a solid partnership at CB and anyone with any sense can see that it's been one of the better features of this campaign so far. I almost see this as akin to the evolution vs creation debate - anyone refusing to accept that JO'S has been good at CB under Trap & thinks McShane is a better option probably is so stuck in his ways it's pointless discussing.

He's been poor in the past at times but never as poor as many have made out. He was almost universally derided here at LB and heavily criticised at RB (Israel at home & Slovakia away for example). He's been derided as a central midfielder so if CB isn't his best position I'd love to know where people think it is.

[shakermaker1982]

Some people will never give O'Shea any credit. He & Dunne have formed a solid partnership at CB and anyone with any sense can see that it's been one of the better features of this campaign so far. I almost see this as akin to the evolution vs creation debate - anyone refusing to accept that JO'S has been good at CB under Trap & thinks McShane is a better option probably is so stuck in his ways it's pointless discussing.

He's been poor in the past at times but never as poor as many have made out. He was almost universally derided here at LB and heavily criticised at RB (Israel at home & Slovakia away for example). He's been derided as a central midfielder so if CB isn't his best position I'd love to know where people think it is.

His best position is definitely full back. Solid in the air and comfortable on the ball. Quick enough as well to cover up any positional lapses. I'm less comfortable with him at CB but his partnership with Dunne is solid this year so I wouldn't split them up.

I'm also pleased to see that he is more aggressive in the tackle this season (taking out Drogba at OT was hilarious) and his solid displays at United will give him a heap of confidence.

[geysir]

I think he packs his bible neatly in the upper right corner of his suitcase.

[Eirambler]

Apparently the firsts played the seconds in training today, so based on the team that played today it will be:


Given
Kelly Dunne O'Shea Kilbane
McGeady Whelan Andrews Duff
Keane Doyle

As expected, but with Andrews in and Gibson out.

[Stuttgart88]

His best position is definitely full backCare to offer which side? :)

He may even himself prefer to play full back but I think it's hard to argue on the basis of Trap's last 4 games that he and Dunne is our best CB pairing. On basis of ability alone JOS trumps McShane and Bruce as a CB and on basis of experience trumps St. Ledger. Easy decision in my opinion. I think mistakes at CB can be costlier than at FB so I'd be more inclined to gamble on FB than at CB.

[geysir]

Apparently the firsts played the seconds in training today, so based on the team that played today it will be:

If I remember correctly, the first team in training before the Cyprus game was not the first team for the game. Close, but not quite the perfect pint.
There was at least one difference.

[irishfan86]

In my view, the only debatable positions are:

Right back (not applicable when Finnan is fit)

Left back (still not convinced with Kilbane, but I'm not saying we have a better option)

One winger (Duff is clear first choice, but who plays on the other side is up for debate. I'd go with McGeady as Trap does, but his performances for Ireland don't let him gain "undroppable" status just yet.)

Centre midfield (both positions): none of Andrews, Whelan, or Gibson is undroppable in my view. All are relatively new to the Irish squad, let alone team. That said, Whelan has done well enough not to be dropped, and Andrews hasn't had a full game yet to prove himself. Still room for debate here though as we have some promising young players in the Championship.

So, to conclude, my undroppables are:

-----------------Given-------------

Finnan-----Dunne---O'Shea------debatable

debatable--debatable--debatable--Duff

------------Keane----Doyle----------

[shakermaker1982]

Care to offer which side? :)



I'd say he prefers to play right back because he seems more comfortable on that side (preferred foot) but he's solid at LB. I have noticed he's a little reluctant to cross the ball on the left hand side, tending to give it to Ronaldo and slowing up the attacks but that is at Man Utd who encourage full backs to bomb forward and play like wingers at times - the Trap doesn't seem to encourage that so not really a problem for us!

I'm just concerned that the Trap has been reluctant to road test different options at the back and if something does happen to Dunne/O'Shea what do we do at CB?

Bruce? McShane? I'd have a heart attack if one of them were exposed to Berbatov and co next month.

[irishfan86]

I'm just concerned that the Trap has been reluctant to road test different options at the back and if something does happen to Dunne/O'Shea what do we do at CB?

Bruce? McShane? I'd have a heart attack if one of them were exposed to Berbatov and co next month.

I don't know enough about Bruce, but McShane is very effective against target men like Berbatov.

In his debut for Sunderland, McShane made Berbatov look invisible.

That said, I'd be worried with McShane in most other games, because of his poor decision making, poor on-the-ball ability, and lack of pace, but strangely enough I'd be comfortable with him man-marking Berbatov.

McShane, while effective at marking target men, is poor against speedsters or tricky players.

[the doc]

I don't know enough about Bruce, but McShane is very effective against target men like Berbatov.

In his debut for Sunderland, McShane made Berbatov look invisible.

That said, I'd be worried with McShane in most other games, because of his poor decision making, poor on-the-ball ability, and lack of pace, but strangely enough I'd be comfortable with him man-marking Berbatov.

McShane, while effective at marking target men, is poor against speedsters or tricky players.

Bruce is slow and poor on the ball too! God help us! Maybe theres a Saint out there who can help us?

[irishfan86]

If you get a chance to talk to St. Ledger doc, let him know that even though he hasn't been selected, that he enjoys the support of many Irish fans.

Tell him to hold out for a place with us over going to the North.

Can't believe this guy hasn't been capped yet.

[dr_peepee]

His best position is definitely full back. Solid in the air and comfortable on the ball. Quick enough as well to cover up any positional lapses. I'm less comfortable with him at CB but his partnership with Dunne is solid this year so I wouldn't split them up.

I'm also pleased to see that he is more aggressive in the tackle this season (taking out Drogba at OT was hilarious) and his solid displays at United will give him a heap of confidence.

I'd run with that also... He's doing well at centre half, but for me it's like Gary Breen... No matter how well he's playing.... somewhere, in places you don't talk about at parties, you're waiting on soft pass or lapse in concentration or something. Stuff that's kind of less destructive when played at full back.

That's not to say I'd move him out from beside Dunne now. The position is defo his to loose.... Best form of his career for club and country????

[DeLorean]

If you get a chance to talk to St. Ledger doc, let him know that even though he hasn't been selected, that he enjoys the support of many Irish fans.

Tell him to hold out for a place with us over going to the North.

Can't believe this guy hasn't been capped yet.

But keep your hands to yourself doc, your love may not be returned, and I'd hate to see you disappointed:(

[irishfan86]

But keep your hands to yourself doc, your love may not be returned, and I'd hate to see you disappointed:(

There are few things more painful in this world than unrequited love.

But doc, it is better to have loved and lost than never loved at all.

Keep on trucking.

[the doc]

If you get a chance to talk to St. Ledger doc, let him know that even though he hasn't been selected, that he enjoys the support of many Irish fans.

Tell him to hold out for a place with us over going to the North.

Can't believe this guy hasn't been capped yet.

Thats cool! I will let him know when I go to th game on Sat, The Saint always has time to speak to the fans.

As regards the North, well it looks like it's his only option,as Trapp just keeps picking Bruce and the selection of Nolan who is seen as defensive back up at PNE, was a real kick in the teeth.

The annoying thing about all this is, that St Ledger is still improving will go on and play in the Premiership, everyone at PNE says it.

I really think this lad is ideal to play alongside Dunne, perhaps we will never know. :mad:

[Manc Irish Wolf]

As regards the North, well it looks like it's his only option,as Trapp just keeps picking Bruce and the selection of Nolan who is seen as defensive back up at PNE, was a real kick in the teeth.
:

THe one advantage of Bruce, Nolan, & Kelly and previously Andrews is that they have played (despite how infrequently or poorly) with a premiership club which seems to elevate them to a guaranteed first team status at the moment.

Is St Ledger seriously considering the North?

The fact that one of the league's best performing centre-backs and the championship's leading fullbacks (Foley & Ward -incidently two of the strongest candidates for our player of the season so far) have been superceded by that trio is nothing short of a disgrace. The narrow-minded short-sightedness of the chief staff's current selection policy is seriously in danger of derailing the current campaign, along with the progression of future campaigns. Although, I hope I am wrong.

Trap might not care about future campaigns, however if Yes-Man Givens or Tough-Guy Brady had any balls about them they might want to advise otherwise - for all our sakes.

[Stuttgart88]

Trap might get lucky and not have to rely on a 3rd or 4th choice CB at any time in the campaign, but it's hard to see how St. Ledger isn't worth a squad place given his excellent club form.

However, though my preference is always to have the best youth challenging established players for their spot, I find it hard to complain about Foley & Ward's treatment. Foley is far closer to the Irish first XI but I'd be in no hurry to play either given that I think Kelly is a capable deputy for Finnan and Delaney is a capable deputy for Kilbane. In fact I'm pretty sure Delaney can be considered a respectable CB option given he played several seasons there for Hull. In any event Foley is in the squad so at least he's being recognised. Delaney was actually one of the successes of Trap's first 2 games and had made a good case to start in Germany vs. Georgia.

Overall though, I can't help feeling that Teflon Don has his own little notions and agendas, to the detriment of the future success of Irish international football.

[drummerboy]

Traps tenure is going to be a short one, 1 campaign. Therefore if a player hasnt broken into the squad by now, its highly unlikely they will unless there are a lot of injuries in their position. Its a pity because St Ledger should have go a chance before now. So barring injury can't see him getting in any time soon. Hope the lad persevers. I think Paul McGrath was 24 before he got his first cap and look at what he achieved in a green shirt.

[the doc]

Trap might get lucky and not have to rely on a 3rd or 4th choice CB at any time in the campaign, but it's hard to see how St. Ledger isn't worth a squad place given his excellent club form.

However, though my preference is always to have the best youth challenging established players for their spot, I find it hard to complain about Foley & Ward's treatment. Foley is far closer to the Irish first XI but I'd be in no hurry to play either given that I think Kelly is a capable deputy for Finnan and Delaney is a capable deputy for Kilbane. In fact I'm pretty sure Delaney can be considered a respectable CB option given he played several seasons there for Hull. In any event Foley is in the squad so at least he's being recognised. Delaney was actually one of the successes of Trap's first 2 games and had made a good case to start in Germany vs. Georgia.

Overall though, I can't help feeling that Teflon Don has his own little notions and agendas, to the detriment of the future success of Irish international football.

Agree regards Teflon, think he "alledgely" holds grudges against players, who in their younger careers (usually down to their clubs) are unable to play or link up with the U19's/U21's Squads. ;)

It's enough to test the patience of a Saint!

[Scram]

Overall though, I can't help feeling that Teflon Don has his own little notions and agendas, to the detriment of the future success of Irish international football.

Yes, I have a bit of a Benitez feeling about him and hope I'm wrong.