Croke Park or Celtic Park

[liam88]

"There has been speculation that the Football Association of Ireland wants access to Croke Park while Lansdowne Road undergoes redevelopment work.

FAI sources have hinted that Republic of Ireland games might have to staged in Britain because of the scheduled work at Lansdowne Road with Celtic Park in Glasgow mooted as a possible venue."

Personally I think that Croke Park won't be the best idea due to history and tradition. On top of this we've all seen the problems with the FAI asking to play soccer at Gaelic Venues with the Cork City of Culture tournament plans. -Just a personal view.

I think that Celtic park would have it's advantages as Celtic pride their Irish roots but surley this would divide Irish fans and possibly anger Scots and add to secaterian troubles in Scotland.

These are all just some ideas-do you think the venue matters as long as you've got fans backing the country?

It'd certainly cause a bit of an outcry for Dubliners having to travel all the way to Glasgow for the internationals-mabye for all our fans, playing our 'home' games in a different country seems to have a big opposition inevitably.....

[lopez]

Croke Park should be made available to the FAI. I've heard all the arguments before about the GAA being such a wonderful, prudent sporting body and the FAI being a bunch of drunken wasters, but the FAI never had the advantage of keeping all the wages from their players. Imagine if the Roy Keanes of this world had to hand back his 70G a week. There would be no problem with a stadium then.

I live in Britain, so next to Vicarage Road or Kenilworth Road, any London venue would do nicely? Er, no it wouldn't. It is showing Ireland up as a third rate country that they haven't got a stadium to play in. Except they have. But despite hand outs and tax breaks from the government, its owners want to keep it all to themselves. Fine many will add, but remember where the GAA looked for grounds when they had big exhibition games in Britain. Brentford FC, Wembley. Exactly. I for one would have been disgusted if a football club, the FA or Wembley PLC turned down the GAA 'cos it's a Paddy game, roight.' In addition, when I was a yoof (long time ago) I played soccer on pitches owned by a Tory council, that doubled for matches of the Hertfordshire GAA. Imagine the uproar if the council denied the GAA that right because it excluded 'crown forces' from its membership.

The GAA should wake up to the twentieth century, stop acting as if its acronym stands for 'The Grab All Association', think of the service it would be doing the country that it bangs on about 24 - 7(another hospital could be built for the price of a new stadium) and open its doors. In return it will get a nice pay day (you'd think they were letting in travellers for nothing) which I believe it could do with at the moment.

As for Celtic Park? Uh oh, I feel another 44 pages coming on. :rolleyes:

[Footie_Fan]

The compromise should be that Lansdowne Road gets redeveloped but in the period it takes to build the new Lansdowne, Croke Park should open its doors and let Ireland play there. If the FAI makes a firm time commitment to the GAA and turns the first sod. There really can't be any arguements from the GAA considering the amount of money they got from the government.

Celtic Park or anywhere else is Ireland playing on foreign soil.

[lopez]

Originally posted by Conor74
It's a bit misleading to suggest that the GAA kept money from its players. Do English amateur football teams 'keep' money rightfully belonging to its players? Are the thousands who play soccer in Ireland and England for the love of the game being cheated too? If you play an amateur sport you don't expect payment, you don't get payment 'withheld'. It might be bizarre for those of us who follow professional teams to understand the concept of playing a game for the love of it, but you can't reduce everything to grubby money terms.

It is truly ironic that the only major sporting organisation in the world that has kept the faith with the Corinthian spirit of the muscular Christianity and imperial sporting evangelism of the British is the GAA. One of the reasons the GAA was founded (the clue is in the word Athletic) is because of the discrimination of contemporary Irish athletics to those that laboured - which as you can see gave them an advantage over those effete characters in their mansions who sat around playing croquet all day, or sh**ing the chambermaids.

Still no one holds a gun to these players heads. But the point I'm making is that wages don't come into it for the GAA. And no I'm not talking about those who play for the love of the game, because those don't bring in eighty thousand in paying spectators. I would have thought the difference was obvious, certainly for you.:p

Anyway let's hope your optimism proves right. Croke Park may not be the 'soccer stadium' that is being built in the Twenty-first century, but it beats anything Ireland have played in for home games before, and most of the stadiums it plays in for away games too.

[republic]

Interesting that yesterday's Sunday Independent carried a brief piece which indicated that the most likely outcome is that John O'Donoghue will bring *yet*another*report to the government next month with a decision to develop Lansdowne Road into a 45 -50,000 seater stadium announced next spring. This will be too late to stop the FAI deciding to play the World Cup qualifiers in the UK with Anfield the most likely venue.

Personally I would prefer to see international matches played in the UK than handing any cash over to the GAA.

Whatever the scenario, the FAI loses. If Lansdowne is redeveloped, the IRFU will still retain ownership. The FAI will continue to pay rent for the use of the stadium and it is highly probable they will never have their own stadium.

[Macy]

Originally posted by Conor74
It's a bit misleading to suggest that the GAA kept money from its players. Do English amateur football teams 'keep' money rightfully belonging to its players? Are the thousands who play soccer in Ireland and England for the love of the game being cheated too? If you play an amateur sport you don't expect payment, you don't get payment 'withheld'. It might be bizarre for those of us who follow professional teams to understand the concept of playing a game for the love of it, but you can't reduce everything to grubby money terms.
How many people go to watch the amatuer leagues in proper football? Not many amatuer football games bring in millions for their top games? The GAA is shamatuer anyway - a turely amatuer sport wouldn't be paying top dollar to their blazers, afterall surely they're only in it for the "love of the game" or is it okay for administrators to make money while the players suffer....


Originally posted by Conor74
Croke park may have got some grant aid, sure, but they have dozens of other stadia that would be the envy of anyone in the soccer world here.
So no other grounds have got grant aid? Are you pulling the p!ss? How many bogball stadia would meet UEFA licencing? Wooden benches wouldn't qualify as seating, and all the terraces in the grounds would be ruled out...

I'd hate to see the GAA getting any money of our sport for rent, and for the time frame of building the new stadium (if O'Donoghue ever gets round to bringing it to cabinet!), they should open it as a good will gesture for all the millions of tax payers money that Croker has gobbled up for the bigotted association....

Anyway, everyone knows that Parkhead is the home of Irish football.....

[MikeW]

Don't care how much money the FAI would have to hand over to the GAA in the short term, it'd still be infinitely preferable than the ultimate humiliation of playing our home games in a foreign country. Playing home games abroad should be the absolute last resort, just ahead of shutting down football in this country for good and taking up cricket instead, and its only marginally more preferable at that.

Even the absolute minnows of Europe - San Marino, Liechtenstein, Scotland, The Faroe islands - play their home games at home. We're supposed to be a proper country now (I know thats debatable), stuff like this isn't supposed to happen anymore. And don't anybody mention Wales playing their games in england a few years ago as a precedent because Wales isn't even a country.

[SÓC]

Originally posted by liam88

FAI sources have hinted that Republic of Ireland games might have to staged in Britain because of the scheduled work at Lansdowne Road with Celtic Park in Glasgow mooted as a possible venue."


Glasgow in Britain? Shhhhhh.....dont tell the Sinners.

Bertie only needs to hold a gun to their head for a while to make them do it.

A 50k seater Landsdowne with boxes and the likes would be much better than playing at Croke Park long term. A soccer pitch would be totally lost on that pitch.

[Éanna]

I hate the thought of giving money to the GAAAAAAAAA seeing as they've got more than enough thru government grants already, but its got to be better than playing in Britain. Croker short term followed by the resurrection of the eircom Park plan would be best IMO

[fergalr]

If Croke Park is made available (at a reasonable price) then of course we should play there. To me, that's a no brainer.

Having an problem with paying a fair rent to the GAA sounds like simple bigotry to me. Are you telling me you'd rather hand the money over to a foreign club?

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by MikeW
Even the absolute minnows of Europe - San Marino, Liechtenstein, Scotland, The Faroe islands - play their home games at home. We're supposed to be a proper country now (I know thats debatable), stuff like this isn't supposed to happen anymore. And don't anybody mention Wales playing their games in england a few years ago as a precedent because Wales isn't even a country.

1. Scotland... lol! :D

2. As for San Marino? No doubting their minnow status (although they hold the record for the fastest ever goal scored against England ;)) but they play their home matches in Bologna, Italy.

3. Wales? That's fighting talk indeed. :eek: I don't imagine you have too many Welsh friends, Mike, as I'm sure you wouldn't be let get away with that sort of comment if you had...

:D PP

[Éanna]

Originally posted by fergalr
Having an problem with paying a fair rent to the GAA sounds like simple bigotry to me. Are you telling me you'd rather hand the money over to a foreign club?
Its not bigotry, its the exact opposite. Its precisely because I despise the bigotry that still exists in many GAAAAAAA circles that I wouldn't like to give them my money. And if you had actually read my post, I said Croke Park would be BETTER than paying money to a foreign club.

[fonzi]

id say it will come down to the fact that both the FAI and the G.A.A. dont like each other very much!:)

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by Éanna
Its not bigotry, its the exact opposite. Its precisely because I despise the bigotry that still exists in many GAAAAAAA circles that I wouldn't like to give them my money. And if you had actually read my post, I said Croke Park would be BETTER than paying money to a foreign club.

I think the GAA should open up Croke Park to all sports. The Irish patriots James Connolly and Michael Davitt were both fans of soccer. Also the longest serving President of the FAI, Oscar Traynor was a veteran of the 1916 rising. Eamon de Valera played rugby in his youth and regularly attended international matches at Dalymount. The GAA'S purist attitude on "foreign games" has got to end. Do the modern GAA think they are more patriotic than Connolly, de Valera and Davitt combined.

[lopez]

I couldn't care about where the money goes too. The priority is to keep the games in Ireland.

Ireland stands as one of the richest 25 countries in the world. It is a proper country, a first world country, and has no excuses. However within that is where the sport of soccer stands. It's been battered from both ends. Firstly by not being the country's most popular sport it is in most of the rest of the world, and secondly by so much of its popularity being sucked away by the sport in another, foreign country. The FAI was always going to be shafted no matter how well the team done because it's domestic game has been shafted even more. There is no disrespect in the FAI not owning their own stadium. The FA's of Spain, Italy, Germany and Holland don't own their own stadium. The English FA hired their's from Wembley PLC before using the club grounds. Why should the FAI bother wasting money on their own stadium?

The fact remains that Ireland has the stadiums. It is that they are being denied by a hypocritical sporting association who, when the boot's on the other foot abroad, will have no shame in asking for the use of soccer grounds. The Irish Indy on Saturday showed the various touring exhibition games of certain counties and provinces in Europe, including Rome and Brussels. Are there GAA grounds in these cities to cater for an exhibition game? I bet soccer stadiums are being used as they often are when the London GAA's Ruislip grounds are insufficient for a big payday.

As for Wales and Scotland, no disrespect PP, but these are both part of Britain. In fact it was only in 1998 that they got their own parliaments. Democracy continues to show that there is not a majority in either country in favour of independence that there was in Ireland in 1919.

By the way Paddy R, in the pantheon of national heroes who were soccerphiles, don't forget Dan Breen, who went to his first 'official' soccer game against Yugoslavia in 1955 to stick his two fingers up at all those reactionaries - basically John McQuaid and his Legion of Mary crew - who wanted the game called off.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by Conor74
On a similar vein (though not the same as the heroic figures you mention), but republicans Martin McGuinness is a big fan of Derry City and round these parts Martin Ferris played for years with Fenit Samphires in the KDL.



It's also interesting to note McGuinness and Ferris are both Celtic fans. It was in some newspaper too, that McGuinness is also an avid fan of Manchester United.

One Irish Patriot who had no time for "foreign games" was Michael Collins who was a staunch supporter of the ban. Another strong supporter of the infamous ban was the wannabe Fascist dictactor Eoin O'Duffy, leader of the Blueshirts.

I think it's curious that Collins and O'Duffy were both pro-treaty Republicans and anti-soccer while Oscar Traynor and de Valera were anti-treaty republicans and yet were soccer fans.

[Lionel Hutz]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
It's also interesting to note McGuinness and Ferris are both Celtic fans. It was in some newspaper too, that McGuinness is also an avid fan of Manchester United.

One Irish Patriot who had no time for "foreign games" was Michael Collins who was a staunch supporter of the ban. Another strong supporter of the infamous ban was the wannabe Fascist dictactor Eoin O'Duffy, leader of the Blueshirts.

I think it's curious that Collins and O'Duffy were both pro-treaty Republicans and anti-soccer while Oscar Traynor and de Valera were anti-treaty republicans and yet were soccer fans.

Wasnt Davitt one of the founding members of the GAA?

If memory serves me correctly he also layed the centre sod at Parkhead for Celtic fc!

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
Wasnt Davitt one of the founding members of the GAA?

If memory serves me correctly he also layed the centre sod at Parkhead for Celtic fc!

I think Davitt fell out with the GAA over their support for Parnell during the Kitty O'Shea divorce scandal. Davitt was an anti-Parnellite and believed that Parnell should have resigned for pragmatic reasons. Another anti-Parnellite Tim Healy was also a patron of Hibernian FC in Edinburgh. Many Catholic Nationalists defected from GAA to soccer in the 1890's because of the GAA's support for Parnell.

It also interesting to note that the GAA have never had any problem with using soccer facilities when it suited them, even during the era of the ban! The 1913 All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-Final between Kilkenny and Glasgow was staged at Celtic Park!

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by lopez
As for Wales and Scotland, no disrespect PP, but these are both part of Britain. In fact it was only in 1998 that they got their own parliaments. Democracy continues to show that there is not a majority in either country in favour of independence that there was in Ireland in 1919.

Since when was "Britain" a single political entity Lopez? Schoolboy error... :p

In any case, the development of the nation-state as political unit that has occurred since the Reformation in Europe doesn't come close to describing the complex relationships between the peoples of the different nations on these islands. And that's without taking account of the various diaspora and therefore the likes of me and you. Wales and Scotland may have only varying degrees of self-determination politically, but that surely doesn't impact on the rights of their peoples where they so wish to claim a separate identity. In both cases, part of this expression of identity takes place on the sporting field; hence the development of "national" stadia in Cardiff, Glesga and Embra. But I digress.

FWIW I agree with your fundamental point. Our home games should be played in Ireland. End of story. Over to you Brendan, Bertie et al. Sort this out FFS.

:D PP

[lopez]

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Since when was "Britain" a single political entity Lopez? Schoolboy error... :p

Since 1707. :rolleyes: There is one head of state unlike Austria - Hungary before WW1. One parliament (devolution introduced in 1998). Britain built an empire, not Scotland and England and when Ireland was coerced into union it was with Britain not England and Scotland. There is just one passport for the country. The country has one army, unlike the German Reich before and during WW1. The country has only one seat on the UN compared to the old USSR where both Ukraine and Belarus had seats. If this isn't a single political entity, a 'state', then I concede I don't know what is.

Some things were different in Scotland (not Wales) like the legal system and local notes. The three countries have their own sports teams. So what? These were in British sports where the charade of 'international' competition was encouraged long before the rest of the world took up the sports. In sporting competitions founded and organised by non-Britons - like the Olympics or tennis - united British teams tend to compete (as always there are exceptions). Indeed you talk of 'national' stadiums in Cardiff, but this wouldn't have been built without money from the rest of the country (Britain).:p

As for the complex relationship of the peoples, this has come to the surface only since the decline of the empire. 100 years ago there was huge support for the Tories in Scotland with the Liberals gaining the 'home rule' support. Separatism was miniscule, almost unknown. I'm all for people gaining independence but that has to be the majority. That is not the case in Scotland or Wales. In fact both countries (especially Scotland) have contributed greatly to the (singular) British military occupation of Northern Ireland.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by lopez


As for the complex relationship of the peoples, this has come to the surface only since the decline of the empire. 100 years ago there was huge support for the Tories in Scotland with the Liberals gaining the 'home rule' support. Separatism was miniscule, almost unknown. I'm all for people gaining independence but that has to be the majority. That is not the case in Scotland or Wales. In fact both countries (especially Scotland) have contributed greatly to the (singular) British military occupation of Northern Ireland.

If the there is just one nation on the island of Britain, expain why the IRA never once bombed Scotland or Wales during the troubles. Surely they're as much Brits as the English according to your line of thinking.

You seem to completely ignore the strong affinity there is between the Celtic nations. In the Western Isles of Scotland, there are Gaelic-speaking Catholics on the islands of Barra and South Uist with a similar culture to people in the West of Ireland. The GAA and their Scottish equivalent also organize hurling-shinty compromise rule matches.

I suppose the Gaels of Scotland because they were born in the United Kingdom are British even though they might regard themselves as Scottish which contradicts that saying of yours, if you are born in a stable that doen't make you a horse.

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by lopez
Since 1707. :rolleyes:
And only until 1801 :rolleyes: :p

Originally posted by lopez
There is one head of state unlike Austria - Hungary before WW1. One parliament (devolution introduced in 1998). Britain built an empire, not Scotland and England and when Ireland was coerced into union it was with Britain not England and Scotland.
I'm not so much questioning the point I know you're making, but being a linguistic pedant. My pedantic point was that "Britain" ceased to be a political entity in 1801 with the annexation of Grattan's parliament and incorporation of the Irish Crown. Hence the "schoolboy error". And the sticky-out tongue. :p

Originally posted by lopez
As for the complex relationship of the peoples, this has come to the surface only since the decline of the empire. 100 years ago there was huge support for the Tories in Scotland with the Liberals gaining the 'home rule' support. Separatism was miniscule, almost unknown.
I don't disagree. I'm just saying that in this day and age, a complex relationship exists on these islands between individual and group identity and political structures.

Originally posted by lopez
I'm all for people gaining independence but that has to be the majority. That is not the case in Scotland or Wales. In fact both countries (especially Scotland) have contributed greatly to the (singular) British military occupation of Northern Ireland.
I don't think there's much doubt in the case of Wales (after all, the vote on the Assembly was split 51/49 on a 51% turnout - i.e. just over 25% of the total electorate actually backed the Assembly) but I don't think the case is quite the same in Scotland. The (predominantly working-class) Nationalist vote is split between Labour and the SNP. Until a plebiscite is held, I really wouldn't like to say which way that one would go.

As for the question of Norn Iron, we all know that was a gerrymandered expedient for Lloyd George's "little local difficulty", and one maintained at great financial and emotional expense to people on both islands ever since. However, today's realpolitik would suggest that as the majority seemingly wish to maintain a union with the rest of the UK, the military occupation you refer to is no such thing. Whether those of us (myself included) who would welcome a 32-county republic like it or not.

:D PP

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by Conor74
On a similar vein (though not the same as the heroic figures you mention), but republicans Martin McGuinness is a big fan of Derry City and round these parts Martin Ferris played for years with Fenit Samphires in the KDL.

But realistically there was no real incentive to the GAA to open up their pitches so there was no big push to change the rules. We might all agree that they should, but what is in it for them? They are not a registered charity and their business is not handouts to an organisation that is a laughing stock. The current President Sean Kelly is very much in favour of opening up the grounds, for a fee of course. And of course the FAI should have to pay the GAA. Many posters here are very bitter about the GAA. I myself don't like gaelic football, I don't like many figures within the GAA (an infamous b****x from Cork springs to mind). But why should the FAI benefit from their inability to organise a ground within the past 100 years? If anyone here feels that it is right and proper that an organisation that went out and did all the work and put a remarkable project together should be expected to open its doors to the sick man of Irish sport and give them a free ride, then you're kidding yourselves.

Another nationalist soccer fan was Neil Blaney, the hardline Republican Independent Fianna Fail TD from County Donegal. Blaney was President of the FAI from 1968 to 1973. It was during this time that Blaney was dismissed from the government cabinet for importing arms into Ireland for use in the North.

I wonder is any coincidence that the equally hardline Republican GAA ended their ban on foreign games in 1971 while Blaney was FAI president and just after the arms crisis. Maybe all the FAI have to do is elect an a hardline Republican as President and the GAA will open Croke Park to them. What about Martin McGuinness as President of the FAI? A member of the oppressed Nationalist minority in the British-occupied Six Counties as President of the FAI would go down well with the GAA. :D

BTW who is the infomous b****x from Cork?

[Duncan Gardner]

Croke Park, of course. Get your lawyers to negotiate a deal for the rental payment, as Conor says.

The rumour that a still-prominent member of the IRA Army Council asked for meetings to be moved from Sunday afternoons when Sky TV starting showing English football? I imagine the unionist paramilitaries started that one :)

[lopez]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
If the there is just one nation on the island of Britain, expain why the IRA never once bombed Scotland or Wales during the troubles. Surely they're as much Brits as the English according to your line of thinking.
I never said there was one nation in Britain - Wales and Scotland have an indigenous language as does Cornwall. Just one state. My response was to MikeW's suggestion that Wales playing in England isn't like its leaving the country. It isn't. Can't answer why the IRA only bombed England - I'd say it was down to economic targets - but they didn't feel restrained when it came to killing Scottish soldiers in NI so it can't be down to intra-Celtic 'affinity' that you seem to be suggesting.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
You seem to completely ignore the strong affinity there is between the Celtic nations. In the Western Isles of Scotland, there are Gaelic-speaking Catholics on the islands of Barra and South Uist with a similar culture to people in the West of Ireland. The GAA and their Scottish equivalent also organize hurling-shinty compromise rule matches.
The truth is that Scots have done very little to seek independence despite their consistent claim to be Celtic and separate. If there were a majority of MSPs who voted for a plebiscite in the Scottish parliament, at least any denial of such a referendum on independence by Westminster would be seen as undemocratic. But where is this majority. Why aren't there demonstrations? Indeed where's the political violence that is glorified in Braveheart?

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
I suppose the Gaels of Scotland because they were born in the United Kingdom are British even though they might regard themselves as Scottish which contradicts that saying of yours, if you are born in a stable that doen't make you a horse.
So there is a Gaelic -speaking Catholic indigenous minority in the North - West of Scotland who want independence. There's an English speaking Protestant minority in North East Ireland who call themselves British, and even think they're more British than the people here. Suppose the rest of Ireland wanted to be British too? As for my saying, can't see the connection. These people are Scots. Scots want to remain a glorified province of Britain. If they don't, get out and do something about it like Ireland did under the British and most of Eastern Europe did at some point under a very repressive Soviet Union. Whereas myself, I've yet buy a British passport. So if I'm ever done for treason, they won't be able to get me the way they got William 'Lord Haw Haw' Joyce.:p

I do like your suggestion for FAI president.

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
I'm not so much questioning the point I know you're making, but being a linguistic pedant. My pedantic point was that "Britain" ceased to be a political entity in 1801 with the annexation of Grattan's parliament and incorporation of the Irish Crown. Hence the "schoolboy error". And the sticky-out tongue.
Apologies PP. Never recognised the act of union 1801. I would use the term Great Britain but I don't want to be making a libellous statement. Not when so many of the natives are moving to Spain every day.;)

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by lopez
Can't answer why the IRA only bombed England - I'd say it was down to economic targets - but they didn't feel restrained when it came to killing Scottish soldiers in NI so it can't be down to intra-Celtic 'affinity' that you seem to be suggesting.:rolleyes:

The truth is that Scots have done very little to seek independence despite their consistent claim to be Celtic and separate. If there were a majority of MSPs who voted for a plebiscite in the Scottish parliament, at least any denial of such a referendum on independence by Westminster would be seen as undemocratic. But where is this majority. Why aren't there demonstrations? Indeed where's the political violence that is glorified in Braveheart?


I think the reason that the IRA never bombed Scotland and Wales during the troubles was due to the prominence of Ruairi O Bradaigh in the Republican movement at the time. O Bradaigh was a proponent of a Celtic League including a United Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Brittany. Scottish and Welsh Nationalism were beginning to have electoral successes at the time and IRA bombing campaign targeting Scotland and Wales would have alienated public opinion in those countries affecting the Nationalist vote.

I'll think you'll find that a large element of the anti-Nationalist element in Scotland are the "Plastic Paddies" who support Celtic. They claim to be anti-British and Republican, yet mainly vote for the unionist Labour Party, keeping Scotland in the United Kingdom. I don't see anything wrong with Celtic fans celebrating their Irish heritage but they should remember that their club were set up to form a bridge between the Irish and Scottish and not to divide the two nations. More Celtic fans should fly the Scottish Saltire flag as well as the Irish Tricolour.

Celtic fans sometimes seem to be more Irish than themselves, a bit like the Unionists you referred to in Northern Ireland, who think they are more British than the British themselves. It would be great if more Scottish Celtic fans embraced their Scottishness as well as their Irish heritage and finally realise that Celtic are Scottish club (of Irish origin) not an Irish club based in Scotland. The Republic of Ireland staging their matches at Celtic Park would increase sectarian tension, emphasing the fact the fact in some people's eyes that West of Scotland Catholics are not truly Scottish.

It would be much better idea if the GAA finally moved in the 21st century and allowed soccer to be played in Croke Park. Croke Park would have much higher profile, staging international matches in the most popular sport in the world. This could only be good for the GAA. The FAI would have to pay a high rent for use of the ground. The GAA are daft not opening Croke Park to "foreign games".

[liam88]

The IRFU can never return the favour can they?
Hurling at Landsdowne !??!;)

If Windsor Park :mad: was offered for our qualifiers wouldn't you prefer Celtic Park ?

I know I would ;)

[Lionel Hutz]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone

I'll think you'll find that a large element of the anti-Nationalist element in Scotland are the "Plastic Paddies" who support Celtic. They claim to be anti-British and Republican, yet mainly vote for the unionist Labour Party, keeping Scotland in the United Kingdom. I don't see anything wrong with Celtic fans celebrating their Irish heritage but they should remember that their club were set up to form a bridge between the Irish and Scottish and not to divide the two nations. More Celtic fans should fly the Scottish Saltire flag as well as the Irish Tricolour.

Celtic fans sometimes seem to be more Irish than themselves, a bit like the Unionists you referred to in Northern Ireland, who think they are more British than the British themselves. It would be great if more Scottish Celtic fans embraced their Scottishness as well as their Irish heritage and finally realise that Celtic are Scottish club (of Irish origin) not an Irish club based in Scotland. The Republic of Ireland staging their matches at Celtic Park would increase sectarian tension, emphasing the fact the fact in some people's eyes that West of Scotland Catholics are not truly Scottish.



Were kinda of topic here but anyways........
You seem to miss the point of Celtic fc for many of the fans from Scotland, Celtic is the only outlet for their "Irishness'.
They live, work and are part of Scottish society and Celtic is there way of retaining links with Ireland, they should compromise on this to?

Btw there were a few Saltires on view at the game tonight.

[lopez]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
I think the reason that the IRA never bombed Scotland and Wales during the troubles was due to the prominence of Ruairi O Bradaigh in the Republican movement at the time. O Bradaigh was a proponent of a Celtic League including a United Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Brittany.
That's news to me. O Bradaigh's baby was his Eire Nua federal Ireland. From what I've read on him, he had enough on his plate trying to get this noble, if naive, idea through to worry about a pan - Celtic federation aswell. BTW, where's Galicia?:mad:

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
I'll think you'll find that a large element of the anti-Nationalist element in Scotland are the "Plastic Paddies" who support Celtic. They claim to be anti-British and Republican, yet mainly vote for the unionist Labour Party, keeping Scotland in the United Kingdom.
Here you are dead on, and do you wonder why? Scottish society - that is the Scottish society that is supposed to be trying to break free from the imperial shackles of England - has had a deplorable record towards it's Catholic (mainly Irish) citizens. Now you expect the Irish in Scotland to help bring about a situation that may - yes it's conjecture here but I digress - similar to Macedonia or Croatia. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
I don't see anything wrong with Celtic fans celebrating their Irish heritage but they should remember that their club were set up to form a bridge between the Irish and Scottish and not to divide the two nations. More Celtic fans should fly the Scottish Saltire flag as well as the Irish Tricolour.
Many, possibly most, Celtic fans would consider themselves Scots but with Irish ancestry. Some are the offspring of mix marriages, but are Catholic through the insistence of the RC church. I don't see many fourth or fifth generation Celtic fans at Ireland games. A few I've known would support Scotland if their first experience (pre mid eighties) at Hampden was not unlike being at a Rangers home game.

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
Celtic fans sometimes seem to be more Irish than themselves, a bit like the Unionists you referred to in Northern Ireland, who think they are more British than the British themselves. It would be great if more Scottish Celtic fans embraced their Scottishness as well as their Irish heritage and finally realise that Celtic are Scottish club (of Irish origin) not an Irish club based in Scotland.
I presume it's the same with us 'Plastics' south of the border. Embrace our Englishness. Is it a case of getting rid of us so that it is easier to get tickets for games like Switzerland (I was asked for my passport by one w***er who heard my accent and yet I got mine through the Swiss) or are you just puzzled that we aren't supporting, indeed embracing a supposedly superior country? If us 'plastics' appear more Irish than the Irish themselves (sic) then it is usually down to people like you telling us what we really are or should be.

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
The Republic of Ireland staging their matches at Celtic Park would increase sectarian tension, emphasing the fact the fact in some people's eyes that West of Scotland Catholics are not truly Scottish.
Of course it would. The last thing that native Scots like to see is their minorities (in particular the Irish ones) celebrating their heritage.

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
It would be much better idea if the GAA finally moved in the 21st century and allowed soccer to be played in Croke Park. Croke Park would have much higher profile, staging international matches in the most popular sport in the world. This could only be good for the GAA. The FAI would have to pay a high rent for use of the ground. The GAA are daft not opening Croke Park to "foreign games".
Let's get it on.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by liam88

If Windsor Park :mad: was offered for our qualifiers wouldn't you prefer Celtic Park ?

I know I would ;)

I don't believe that the IFA would ever offer Windsor Park to the FAI. That's a non-starter.

It would be great though one day to see a All-Ireland side play there and in Dublin. The reunited Ireland side could alternate their home matches between Windsor Park and Croke Park. But unfortunately this unlikely.

Even better still a new stadium could be built in Newry. It would be great to see a United Ireland side. Whenever the 26 counties (so-called Republic of Ireland) play the six counties (so-called Northern Ireland), it's more like an Old Firm match than an international match. I'm sure most patriotic Irish people would love to see an end to that and one Ireland side that all Irish people can be proud of.

Celtic Park is in Scotland not Ireland. It would be alright for Ireland to play their home games on a temporary basis there but it would be unacceptable as a pemanent home. If Celtic are to stage the home matches of an international team it should be Scotland not Ireland. Scotland have staged some of their home matches at Parkhead.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by lopez
That's news to me. O Bradaigh's baby was his Eire Nua federal Ireland. From what I've read on him, he had enough on his plate trying to get this noble, if naive, idea through to worry about a pan - Celtic federation aswell. BTW, where's Galicia?:mad:

I presume it's the same with us 'Plastics' south of the border. Embrace our Englishness. Is it a case of getting rid of us so that it is easier to get tickets for games like Switzerland (I was asked for my passport by one w***er who heard my accent and yet I got mine through the Swiss) or are you just puzzled that we aren't supporting, indeed embracing a supposedly superior country? If us 'plastics' appear more Irish than the Irish themselves (sic) then it is usually down to people like you telling us what we really are or should be.


O Bradaigh has always been a supporter of pan-Celtic nationalism. I have a quotation from him when he was asked about Celtic fans supporting the Unionist Labour Party in Scotland, while flying the tricolour and singing rebel songs.

"Singing rebel songs and striking Republican attitudes is totally inconsistent with voting for British Rule in Scotland. If such people really want to further the cause of Irish National Independence they should work for Scottish Independence also. To do so otherwise is a contradiction."

I think that makes perfect sense while I wouldn't agree with everything O'Bradaigh says or stands for. It has always in the British interest to divide and conquer. Sectarian divisions in Scotland and Northern Ireland keep both areas in the United Kingdom.

Of course people of Irish descent in England have just as must right to call themselves Irish as those born in Ireland. What I was objecting to was the so-called Irish Nationalists who vote to keep Scotland in the United Kingdom.

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
Of course people of Irish descent in England have just as must right to call themselves Irish as those born in Ireland. What I was objecting to was the so-called Irish Nationalists who vote to keep Scotland in the United Kingdom.

A couple of minor points, Paddy.

1. The Nationalists who "vote to keep Scotland in the UK" are voting in a very different political climate from the one I think you perceive. There is a long-held perception that the SNP is run by a Protestant cabal, and as such, any vote for them may well lead to "worse conditions" (poor terminology, I know) for the Catholic population. The nearest analogy I can find to describe the situation I refer to is from the early 1970s, when the Nationalist population of Norn Iron found "direct rule" from Westminster more palatable than Unionist rule from Stormont.

2. There is a long socialist tradition in Scotland that cuts across cultural-religious divides, one that just doesn't exist in Ireland. The Labour Party has been very successful over time in providing a focal point and political outlet for this tradition. The Labour Party's unionist stance is thus only a secondary consideration for many who vote for them, although Blair and McConnell's love affair with the centre-right may yet see this voter profile change.

:D PP

[lopez]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
O Bradaigh has always been a supporter of pan-Celtic nationalism. I have a quotation from him when he was asked about Celtic fans supporting the Unionist Labour Party in Scotland, while flying the tricolour and singing rebel songs.

"Singing rebel songs and striking Republican attitudes is totally inconsistent with voting for British Rule in Scotland. If such people really want to further the cause of Irish National Independence they should work for Scottish Independence also. To do so otherwise is a contradiction."

I think that makes perfect sense while I wouldn't agree with everything O Bradaigh says or stands for. It has always in the British interest to divide and conquer. Sectarian divisions in Scotland and Northern Ireland keep both areas in the United Kingdom.

I'd disagree with O'Bradaigh on this. It seems that he is suffering from a tainted view of Scottish society, one which, as PP rightly says, is totally different. On a different thread someone mentioned that SNP stood for 'Soon No Pope'. I don't have time for Juan Pablo and his predecessors, and the description of a party that ostensibly tries hard to distance itself from sectarianism is harsh. But I fear for the Irish/RC community of Scotland if there were independence. Symbols of ethnic pride, like Celtic FC, however dated they may seem to some people, are important to the Irish community in Glasgow. Just as in many of the new states in Eastern Europe, these will be deemed as unpatriotic by the new elites, high on 'freedom' and keen to cleanse outside contamination.

Don't think it will happen? Well similar things happened in the new Irish Free State. While British/Protestand/Unionist institutions and property were untouched, the efforts to turn the new state into some form of Gaelic Catholic Theocracy affected the lives of non-Catholics, particularly in contraception and divorce. Even in sport (hence this thread).

I was disgusted by the way 'immigrants' prevented Quebec from rightfully gaining independence some years back. But in all honesty, I probably would have voted with them if I was there. Minorities hate change. You just never know if you'll be the next target, and history shows plenty of examples: Be it Greeks in Turkey, Germans in Czechoslovakia, Indians in Uganda and Kenya, Russians in the Baltic states or Albanians in Macedonia.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
A couple of minor points, Paddy.

1. The Nationalists who "vote to keep Scotland in the UK" are voting in a very different political climate from the one I think you perceive. There is a long-held perception that the SNP is run by a Protestant cabal, and as such, any vote for them may well lead to "worse conditions" (poor terminology, I know) for the Catholic population. The nearest analogy I can find to describe the situation I refer to is from the early 1970s, when the Nationalist population of Norn Iron found "direct rule" from Westminster more palatable than Unionist rule from Stormont.

2. There is a long socialist tradition in Scotland that cuts across cultural-religious divides, one that just doesn't exist in Ireland. The Labour Party has been very successful over time in providing a focal point and political outlet for this tradition. The Labour Party's unionist stance is thus only a secondary consideration for many who vote for them, although Blair and McConnell's love affair with the centre-right may yet see this voter profile change.

:D PP

While there may have been anti-Catholic bigots once in the SNP, I think they are a dying breed. In fact there are are probably more anti-Catholic bigots in Labour and Liberal Democrats. If the SNP are so anti-Catholic, how come they support Catholic schools much more wholeheartedly than the Labour Party. Also when Bertie Aherne visited Scotland to open a famine memorial, it was the Labour Party who objected to his visit on the grounds that it might increase sectarian tensions. The SNP welcomed him with open arms.

The SNP mainly come from the same long socialist tradition in Scotland that you referred to. Many of the original founders of the Scottish Nationalist movement in Scotland were in fact Catholic and left wing in ideology. Ruairidh Erskine who was a prominent Scottish Nationalist once said "When Scotland was Catholic, Scotland was free". Erskine was a romantic Jacobite and wanted to bring back the Catholic Stuart monarch to Scotland. He was one of the few Scottish left-wingers to support the 1916 rising and was a friend of both Michael Collins and Eamon de Valera. Sinn Fein financed the Scottish National League, a breakaway group from the SNP who wanted to set up a Scottish Workers Republic.

The allegations that the SNP are anti-Catholic go back to the 1930's. The left-wing National Party of Scotland amalgamated with the the right-wing Scottish Party to form the SNP in an effort to gain more electoral support. The Scottish Party were ex-Tories who wanted dominion-status for Scotland within the Empire and were opposed to Republicanism. Andrew Dewar-Gibb, a right wing nationalist tried to get the SNP to change their policy on Catholic schools but failed. Dewar-Gibb also was opposed to Catholic immigration into Scotland. In the 1940's the left-wing regained control and the right-wing element was purged from the party. The modern SNP are not anti-Catholic.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by lopez
I'd disagree with O'Bradaigh on this. It seems that he is suffering from a tainted view of Scottish society, one which, as PP rightly says, is totally different. On a different thread someone mentioned that SNP stood for 'Soon No Pope'. I don't have time for Juan Pablo and his predecessors, and the description of a party that ostensibly tries hard to distance itself from sectarianism is harsh. But I fear for the Irish/RC community of Scotland if there were independence. Symbols of ethnic pride, like Celtic FC, however dated they may seem to some people, are important to the Irish community in Glasgow. Just as in many of the new states in Eastern Europe, these will be deemed as unpatriotic by the new elites, high on 'freedom' and keen to cleanse outside contamination.



I would have thought that Rangers FC would have to fear Scottish Independence more than Celtic. A Unionist bastion in the heart of an Independent Scotland would look like an anachronism. The Union Jack which the Rangers fans so dearly love would now just be an artifact of an era gone by. Surely Celtic's Irishness would be much more compatible with an Independent Scotland than Rangers' Britishness.

[lopez]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
I would have thought that Rangers FC would have to fear Scottish Independence more than Celtic. A Unionist bastion in the heart of an Independent Scotland would look like an anachronism. The Union Jack which the Rangers fans so dearly love would now just be an artifact of an era gone by. Surely Celtic's Irishness would be much more compatible with an Independent Scotland than Rangers' Britishness.

I agree. Most Rangers fans are probably unionist, although I know one who is anti-monarchy, nationalistic (will ask him about independence next time I see him) while not dispartial to the odd, ahem, party song - and we're not talking SNP here.

But then so too in my opinion are the majority of Scots unionist. Rangers are the club of the indigenous people - not English immigrants - and I wouldn't let the Union Jacks and St George's flags fool you. The fact that they are mainly anti - independence is irrelevent. Come independence (which I doubt will ever happen) I've absolutely no doubt they will find it easy to accomodate a new state while continuing their anti-Irish and anti-Catholic activities.

Many thanks for the info on the history of the SNP.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by lopez
I agree. Most Rangers fans are probably unionist, although I know one who is anti-monarchy, nationalistic (will ask him about independence next time I see him) while not dispartial to the odd, ahem, party song - and we're not talking SNP here.

But then so too in my opinion are the majority of Scots unionist. Rangers are the club of the indigenous people - not English immigrants - and I wouldn't let the Union Jacks and St George's flags fool you. The fact that they are mainly anti - independence is irrelevent. Come independence (which I doubt will ever happen) I've absolutely no doubt they will find it easy to accomodate a new state while continuing their anti-Irish and anti-Catholic activities.

Many thanks for the info on the history of the SNP.

While Rangers are the club of indigenous people in Scotland, they didn't introduce their anti-Catholic policies until just before the first world war when Ulster Protestant workers moved from Belfast to Glasgow to work in the Harland and Wolff shipyards in Govan. I don't think the Ulster Protestant Unionist supporters of Rangers would like to see an independent Scotland and would feel betrayed by their cousins across the water if they declared independence. It certainly isn't in the interests of the Unionists of Northern Ireland to see a split-up of the United Kingdom.

I heard somewhere most of the marriages in the West of Scotland are now mixed which will problably lead to a lessening in sectarian tensions eventually. So I suppose if there was ever an independent Scotland, both Old Firm clubs might see it in their interest to adopt a more Scottish identity. We might see more Protestant Celtic fans and more Catholic Rangers fans. Sean Connery has a mixed Irish Catholic and Scottish Protestant background and supports both the SNP and Rangers (although he was in Seville supporting his first love Celtic).
:confused:
Though Connery was born a raised in Edinburgh so really he should support Hibs or Hearts.

[lopez]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
While Rangers are the club of indigenous people in Scotland, they didn't introduce their anti-Catholic policies until just before the first world war when Ulster Protestant workers moved from Belfast to Glasgow to work in the Harland and Wolff shipyards in Govan.
I've read the same. Indeed religious violence at football games in the 6C preceded anything at the old firm.

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
I don't think the Ulster Protestant Unionist supporters of Rangers would like to see an independent Scotland and would feel betrayed by their cousins across the water if they declared independence. It certainly isn't in the interests of the Unionists of Northern Ireland to see a split-up of the United Kingdom.
Scottish independence would be on the surface a disaster for NI. Most Unionists are of Scottish descent. Provided a Scottish parliament, government, military dictatorship (why not?) does not possess irredentist designs on NI which could lead us into dark territory, NI unionists will look instead to England, which is judging by the shirts worn by the less desirable elements of Unionism, already the case. Perhaps Duncan Gardens could enlighten us here.

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
I heard somewhere most of the marriages in the West of Scotland are now mixed which will problably lead to a lessening in sectarian tensions eventually. So I suppose if there was ever an independent Scotland, both Old Firm clubs might see it in their interest to adopt a more Scottish identity. We might see more Protestant Celtic fans and more Catholic Rangers fans.
Mixed marriages re any Irish community will break down the ethnic barriers. In my case it will take a little longer as 'er indoors is a 'plastic' loike meself.;)

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
Sean Connery has a mixed Irish Catholic and Scottish Protestant background and supports both the SNP and Rangers (although he was in Seville supporting his first love Celtic).
:confused:
Though Connery was born a raised in Edinburgh so really he should support Hibs or Hearts.
We are back to square one here. Connery, the man who banged on about wanting an independent Scotland for so long then whinging how it took ages to get a gong from Brenda (aka HRH Da Queen). Scottish Independence? Don't make me laugh.:rolleyes:

[TheRealRovers]

This is starting to sound like the Pro/Anti Celtic thread

[lopez]

Originally posted by TheRealRovers
This is starting to sound like the Pro/Anti Celtic thread

At the moment it's sounding like a pro/anti Scottish independence thread...but give it time.;)

[Beavis]

Originally posted by lopez

We are back to square one here. Connery, the man who banged on about wanting an independent Scotland for so long then whinging how it took ages to get a gong from Brenda (aka HRH Da Queen). Scottish Independence? Don't make me laugh.:rolleyes:

What about Tom Boyd?Did he lose respect among Celtic fans for accepting one himself?(what the f*** was he given one for anyway?I'll be next in line at this rate cos I helped an old man across the road once:D)

[apologies for bringing it towards pro Celtic/anti celtic but it just came into head when Lopez mentioned it]

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by Beavis
What about Tom Boyd?Did he lose respect among Celtic fans for accepting one himself?(what the f*** was he given one for anyway?I'll be next in line at this rate cos I helped an old man across the road once:D)

[apologies for bringing it towards pro Celtic/anti celtic but it just came into head when Lopez mentioned it]

I think quite a few people at Celtic FC have received honours from Royalty. The chairman for years was a Sir Robert Kelly who as I mentioned earlier was a proponent of a Great Britain side. Tom Maley, Celtic's longest serving manager was a staunch supporter of the British Royal Family. Maley was the son of a RIC man from County Clare. Billy McNeill, a Catholic of Irish descent and the son of a British soldier also received an MBE from the Queen. Current manager Martin O'Neill was also honoured for his services as captain of the British occupied Six Counties. :D

While is true that many Celtic and West of Scotland Catholics have strong Republican links (one of the founders of Celtic was an ex-Fenian Pat Welsh and Davitt was a fan), they are mainly unionist with a small 'u'. The Scottish Catholic Education Act recogising Catholic schools was introduced after the first world war in recognition of the Irish Catholics in Scotland who fought in that war.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by lopez

Scottish independence would be on the surface a disaster for NI. Most Unionists are of Scottish descent. Provided a Scottish parliament, government, military dictatorship (why not?) does not possess irredentist designs on NI which could lead us into dark territory, NI unionists will look instead to England, which is judging by the shirts worn by the less desirable elements of Unionism, already the case. Perhaps Duncan Gardens could enlighten us here.


I think a military dictatorship in Scotland would be unlikely :rolleyes:

If Scotland were to become independent, it would make the Unionist population more isolated. It would mean the end of the "British Nation". Their best option would be independence for Northern Ireland sharing power with Nationalists. The changing demogaphics could see a 50/50 Catholic-Protestant population in Northern Ireland which would make an independent Northern Ireland more acceptable to Nationalists.

I think Scottishness could form more of bridge between the Catholics and Protestants of Scotland than Irishness or Britishness. Rangers for instance have a huge following amongst Gaelic speakers on the Protestant Western Isles of Lewis, Harris and North Uist while Celtic draw from support from the Catholic Gaelic speakers on Barra and South Uist. Also many Celtic supporters have roots in the Irish Gaeltachts of Donegal and Mayo. Scottish and Irish culture are quite similar, so the Catholics of West of Scotland would be easily absorbed into an Independent Scotland.

[lopez]

I have to agree with you here. One thing is voting for a unionist party so that the bricks don't come through your kids' windows. Another thing is accepting titles from the German lady while claiming to be Scottish, Irish or both.

What are these knighthoods about? :confused: People seem to shaft or be shafted by anyone to get one. Do you get a big lorry load of Marks & Spencer vouchers with it? Connery got into such a fit, throwing his sporran out of his pram, because he didn't get one.:rolleyes: The only honour he should accept is to tell the world it's going back registered post if it comes through the letterbox. Pr**k!!

Speaking of the RC church, I was nearly sick when I saw a letter in the Irish Post (One of Britain's two weekly Irish community papers for anyone wondering) yesterday stating that Juan Pablo had given a gong to that bitch, Th*tch. The picture of her did the old c**t justice as she looked like the bride of Frankenstein. That's it. I'm off to join the Free Presbyterians.:mad:

[ramondo]

And this started with Croke Park v Celtic Park?

Jesus God, youse are all mad, no wonder anything ever gets resolved.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by ramondo
And this started with Croke Park v Celtic Park?

Jesus God, youse are all mad, no wonder anything ever gets resolved.

Back to original subject it has to Croke Park just for the simple fact that it is actually in a Ireland and not notionally in Ireland like Celtic Park. :D

[Rebel Bhoy]

Be fair now Raymondo, it escalated to this rather than degenerated into badness.
My two cents in this debate is that the GAA's rule 42 is, and will continue to be a major stumbling block. People were banned from the GAA for being seen watching or playing the 'Garrison game'. This rule was only lifted in 1972, so Association Football has come a long long way in Ireland in the 31 years since.
My feeling is that what was once an ideological opposition to association football is now an opposition based on protecting the GAA's own position. After all, the idea of 'foreign sports' was not an issue for the Collins Eubank fight at Pairc Ui Chaoimh, a sport whose rules are that of the very British sounding Marquess of Queensbury.

It would be fantastic to see the Irish football team playing at Croker as many of my English friends mocked Lansdowne and didn't even know we had such a fantastic facility until I pointed it out to them. Whilst Celtic Park is a fantastic place to watch football, and massive crowds and a fervent would be a certainty, the National team should be playing in the nations capital. Having said that, Croker is the only viable alternative whilst LR is out of action. As others have said, we are not a Micky mouse country any more so we should be able to patch something together.

[lopez]

I suppose I shouldn't be saying this, as the GAA thought police may be scouring this websight for someone to hold an auto de fé for, :rolleyes: but the Rep of Ireland Supporters Club in London plays soccer in a league alongside British club supporters teams. Where was their home venue until the wonderful weather took its toll? Tir Chonaill Gaels GAA ground, Berkeley Fields, Greenford, W London. On the 16 November they were supposed to play there but had to move to Perivale as the surface at Berkeley was not up to scratch. Their opponents that day? Rangers Supporters Club London.:eek:

Remember, the truth is out there! (cue weird music).:D

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by lopez
I suppose I shouldn't be saying this, as the GAA thought police may be scouring this websight for someone to hold an auto de fé for, :rolleyes: but the Rep of Ireland Supporters Club in London plays soccer in a league alongside British club supporters teams. Where was their home venue until the wonderful weather took its toll? Tir Chonaill Gaels GAA ground, Berkeley Fields, Greenford, W London. On the 16 November they were supposed to play there but had to move to Perivale as the surface at Berkeley was not up to scratch. Their opponents that day? Rangers Supporters Club London.:eek:

Remember, the truth is out there! (cue weird music).:D

I read in Tim Pat Coogan's book "Where Ever Green is Worn" about a Rangers supporter in Dumbarton who wore his Rangers shirt whle playing for the local Gaelic Football Club.

The GAA also organize compromise rules hurling-shinty matches with Camanachd assocition in the Highlands. Many of the shinty players would be Presbyterian Rangers supporters.

[ramondo]

Well, I may be leaving myself open to all sorts of abuse, but I'll stick my neck out and say the problem re: where the team is going to play has a very logical solution - Croke Park is big enough (with or without The Hill) to do the job - it's just down to the people involved to get together and sort it out. This is if the FAI are prepared to approach the GAA, I don't know if that will ever happen.

It needs just a little forward thinking; Rather than the endless backward looking in the past/'colonial' history/in my day/the good old days/how it really happened/ no you're wrong, this is how it happened irrelevant nonsense (in terms of the immediate problem) that gets regurgitated every time anyone tries to resolve this sensibly which muddies the water.

It's got a simple solution. If the GAA don't want soccer played at Croke Park (but they've no problem with rugby or anything else) they should just say so. Then other arrangements would have to be made.