Team for WC qualifiers.

[carnstein]

Id go for.

Given

Carr
O'Shea
Cunningham
Finnan (Left Back)

Miller(right mid)
Andy Ried
Healy
Duff

Keane
Morrison

Bench: Doherty, Partrige, O'Brien, Holland, Colgan

Dropped for ever more: Kilbane, Breen, Harte, Carsley.

[pete]

O'Shea not capable of playing centre back at international level yet.

Healy is looking dodgy & not as good as appeared to promise.

Miller never played internationals yet so unknown quality so far.

What is the facination with Partridge? Are there that many Liverpool supporters on foot.ie???

:confused:

[Beavis]

The friendlies still have a lot to show us so it's possibly to early for this.
Andy O'Brien ahead of Breen:rolleyes:

[macdermesser]

If you were playing ISS or some computer game .. it would certainly have the highest skill level but other factors .. like experience, and players that don't have the quality but give all that they have comes into it ..

I have to agree with Pete. O Shea is not ready for centre half ... I was cringing every time he got the ball in Basel. We look at our most secure when Cunnigham and Breen are there ..

I'd still go with Kilbane and Breen in the team

Given
Finnan Breen Cunnigham O Shea
Miller Andy Reid Holland Kilbane
Duff
Keane

Miller is still unproven of course ... I don't know if Carr can play right-midfield .. but he might be an option too .. or Finnan there. Keane seems to play better with a big man up front .. but going on recent displays of Doherty and Morrison .. they're not up to it at the moment. maybe given Alan Lee a try .. but don't know if he's much better..

[noby]

Originally posted by pete

What is the fascination with Partridge?

I know. Just back from 3 months injury, and now it seems he's gone for the year.
there seems to be a thing for dropping anyone with experience, and replacing them with people with unproven potential

[finlma]

Are we in some kind of time warp and I've missed a year? The qualifiers don't start till next September so I think we're being a bit early in trying to pick a team for it.
If you're picking our best current team I think I'd probably go along with it.

[carnstein]

Honestly some of the bull**** that is written on this site amazes me. O'Shea is not ready for international football at centre back??????? This is BULL****. Breen is nowhere near international class and having him ahead of O'Shea at centre back is madness.

And playing Duff out of posistion to accomadate Kilbane is pure horse-****e. We should play our best players in their best posistions, that means Duff on the left.

Keane does NOT need a big man to play off. Keane needs someone who will stay in the box and not roam, so he is free to do his work ourside the penalty area.

And Finnan and Carr MUST both play, they might both be right backs but they are easily two of our best players, Finnan can be accomadated at right midfield or left back.

And the fascination with Partrige is that he should be given a chance, he should have been called up years ago, if he was his club career wouldn't be in the rut it is today. He is extremly talented and was considered a better prospect than Duff at the same age.

[fergalr]

Originally posted by carnstein
.....
We should play our best players in their best posistions, that means Duff on the left.
.....
And Finnan and Carr MUST both play, they might both be right backs but they are easily two of our best players, Finnan can be accomadated at right midfield or left back.

Some inner turmoil going on here....?

[liamon]

Originally posted by carnstein
O'Shea is not ready for international football at centre back??????? This is BULL****. Breen is nowhere near international class and having him ahead of O'Shea at centre back is madness.

IMO, O'Shea has a bright future ahead of him, but he's not up to playing centre back at present for club or country. Alex Ferguson seems to agree with this assessment as well, and who am I to question him?

Breen has a role to play in our team. He's done well at times for the senior team and shouldn't be dumped because he doesn't reproduce that form at club level. For that matter, a lot of our players are not international class and never will be, but with injuries/suspensions and limited resources, you have to pick them.

Do agree that Duff should stay on the left wing though. He's bloody amazing when he starts out there.

[Dodge]

Originally posted by liamon
Do agree that Duff should stay on the left wing though. He's bloody amazing when he starts out there.
The argument is which pair would you pick out of these two
1) Duff on left and Doherty/Connolly/Morrison up front or
2) Duff up front and Kilbane on left

For me its No 2 everytime

[fergalr]

Too early to say what our WC team should be - but here's one to try in the upcoming friendlies.

Given
Finnan Cunningham O'Brien/Dunne/Breen/Doherty O'Shea
Miller Holland Kavanagh A.Reid
Duff Keane


Thinking: No point in persisting with those who are obviously not up to international level (you know who you are!).

[Seanie]

Originally posted by carnstein
...the fascination with Partrige is that he should be given a chance, he should have been called up years ago, if he was his club career wouldn't be in the rut it is today. He is extremly talented and was considered a better prospect than Duff at the same age.

International call-ups should have no effect on a club career. It has to happen the other way around. Partridge is not in a rut because he is uncapped.

[carnstein]

Originally posted by Seanie
International call-ups should have no effect on a club career.
Thats not true, players like Carsley, Holland and Kinsella built their reputations on playing along side Roy Keane and there is no way any of them even approaches international class. Breen's club form has been so bad for the last few seasons that if he wasn't made look good by the likes of Carr, Finnan, O'Shea and Cunningham at international level, he would have retired by now. Kilbane was bought by Everton on the basis of his "performances" for Ireland. So it is true that being called up at international level and being "spotted" has a big effect on ones career.

[carnstein]

Originally posted by fergalr
Some inner turmoil going on here....?
Well Finnan and Carr obviously both can't play right back, but its sure as hell that they should both play, god forbid it would mean the sarcraficing of a world class talent like Carsley, Harte or Breen.

[Seanie]

Originally posted by carnstein
Thats not true, players like Carsley, Holland and Kinsella built their reputations on playing along side Roy Keane and there is no way any of them even approaches international class. Breen's club form has been so bad for the last few seasons that if he wasn't made look good by the likes of Carr, Finnan, O'Shea and Cunningham at international level, he would have retired by now. Kilbane was bought by Everton on the basis of his "performances" for Ireland. So it is true that being called up at international level and being "spotted" has a big effect on ones career.
I understand your point about international form benefitting a club career, but the international spotlight should not be the basis for kick-starting one's club career. Carsley, Holland and Kinsella had established themselves in their club sides before getting a call-up. Kilbane was not bought by Everton solely on account of his performances for Ireland - he was Sunderland's best player last season and that was primarily why he went to Everton.

[only1kilbane]

Why does everyone keep slating Kevin Kilbane and Gary Breen. Kilbane and Breen were our two best players in the last two home internationals with Kilbane man of the match against russia !

The push for Partridge is a funny one as well . Why play a player who has never proved what he can do on the domestic stage !

Oshea has not played a decent game for Ireland yet and seems to be a little off international level and his game is also suffering for manu

Team as follows:

Given

Carr
Cunningham
Breen
Finnan

Kilbane
Miller
Kavanagh
Reid ( Andy )

Duff
Keane

[colster]

Originally posted by fergalr
Too early to say what our WC team should be - but here's one to try in the upcoming friendlies.

Given
Finnan Cunningham O'Brien/Dunne/Breen/Doherty O'Shea
Miller Holland Kavanagh A.Reid
Duff Keane


Thinking: No point in persisting with those who are obviously not up to international level (you know who you are!).

that looks like a pretty good side to me.
It'd be very flexible could play 4-3-3 or a 4-3-2-1 or 4-5-1 with the players there.
I'd put Finnan at LB and Carr at RB though.

[carnstein]

Why is everyone including Kavanagh all of a sudden. He is nearly 31 now and including him in the international side at this stage of his career would seem like a waste of time to me, especially when younger alternatives like Andy Ried, Heally and Miller are knocking about.

[carnstein]

Originally posted by Seanie
Carsley, Holland and Kinsella had established themselves in their club sides before getting a call-up. Kilbane was not bought by Everton solely on account of his performances for Ireland - he was Sunderland's best player last season and that was primarily why he went to Everton.
Is that why he was regularlly booed by the Sunderland fans?

As for Carsley, Holland and Kinsella, they might have found their way into the priemership when they were called up originally, but I would be fairly certain that those players would all be in division 1 now had they never played for Ireland.

The point about Partrige is that if he had been called up years ago and made a name for himself at international level, he would have either been bought by another club or it would have greatly helped his 1st team prospects at Liverpool.

[John83]

Originally posted by carnstein
Breen's club form has been so bad for the last few seasons that if he wasn't made look good by the likes of Carr, Finnan, O'Shea and Cunningham at international level, he would have retired by now.

Strange that Breen seems to be so much better because he's carried by that lot when O'Shea just looks ****e beside them. Maybe he's suffering from carrying the team? :rolleyes:

Breen works.(<-that's what's sometimes referred to as a period)

Meanwhile, O'Shea has been crap for us, both in the centre and on the left. Only the lack of other options has him in the team at all. The sooner Finnan is tried at left-back the better. Let O'Shea mature at ManU in peace. It's hardly without reason that Fergie has dropped him.

Oh, and let Partridge demonstrate that he can play football before puting him in the starting lineup, will ya? He might be **** for all we know.

[Beavis]

Originally posted by carnstein
Is that why he was regularlly booed by the Sunderland fans?
.
This is cos he gave them the fingers! Everyone is always dissing Kilbane on foot.it but finally there is thread where people are undertanding his worth.It's a choice between having Doherty or Morrison in the team or Kilbane who can actually do damage on the wing and Duff who will still be effective up front.
You may say,but he's not as effective as at left wing.Basically you'll have to make some adjustments if you want to get your best 11 on the pitch.
Breen has proven himself as a reliable defender in the Ireland shirt.I was one of his biggest critics a few years back but he has really grown well into his role at the heart of the irish defence.If were looking at club form,after Julio Arca at Sunderland he's been they're most consistent performer.

[finlma]

The one thing about Kilbane is that he always tries his hardest and his work rate when playing for Ireland is second to none.
The only problem is that the chap has no skill. His game is so 1 dimensional and predictable. He runs at the right back tries to kick the ball passed him and run after it. He rarely pulls it off cause he's not fast enough. His crossing leaves a lot to be desired and thats one of the main jobs of a winger.

If we had no choice at left wing then I'd play Kilbane cause you know what your going to get but we do have a choice, we have the best left winger in the world.

[WeAreRovers]

Originally posted by carnstein
Why is everyone including Kavanagh all of a sudden. He is nearly 31 now and including him in the international side at this stage of his career would seem like a waste of time to me, especially when younger alternatives like Andy Ried, Heally and Miller are knocking about.

He's 29 and the best central midfielder in the 1st Division whereas Colin Healy is indescribably crap, Miller is too inexperienced and Reid is a winger.

KOH

[carnstein]

Originally posted by WeAreRovers
He's 29 and the best central midfielder in the 1st Division whereas Colin Healy is indescribably crap, Miller is too inexperienced and Reid is a winger.
KOH
Miller is far more experienced at the highest level than than Kavanagh, so that arguement is wrong.

Healy is not indescribably crap, he is a far better player than the likes of Stephen Ried, Kinsella or Kilbane.

Holland would be a better choice than Kavanagh, at least he is experienced at interntional level and plays in the priemership.

Ried is not a "winger" in the same way Duff is, he regularly plays behind the front two for Forest and would offer us a lot of creativity in the middle. He is a great passer and an excellent dribbler, but also good in the tackle.

[carnstein]

Originally posted by Beavis
or Kilbane who can actually do damage on the wing and Duff who will still be effective up front.

Duff has no where near as much influence up front as he does on the left. Before the Canada game, the last time Duff played a full game on the left for us was against Denmark in the WC warm up. He tore them to ****e. In the WC he was only effective when moved to the wing.

[carnstein]

Originally posted by Beavis
This is cos he gave them the fingers!
He gave them the fingers because he was being booed!!!!

[DolansWaistcoat]

Sunderland's best player last year!Are you mad:eek:

I remember Kilbane being booed off the field a good few times for sunderland last year.The sunderland fans saw him for what he really was,a kick and chase merchant.Kilbanes not up to it on the left wing imo,maybe as a left back because he runs himself into the ground and Harte just runs around and waits for a free kick near the box.

Duffer has to go on the left,have ya seen what hes doing at chelsea?The mans brilliant!

[Slash/ED]

If Duff is played out of position AGAIN to accomadate fúcking Kilbane I think I'll cry.

Duff rarely, if ever, plays well up front, at left wing he looks like a world beater. Weather our striker options are limited or not doens't matter, he and Keane don't work together, he's not a striker, he's a world class winger. There isn't a single reason in the world to play him up front. I'd play a Rhymans league player up front if it meant keeping Duff on the left.

[DolansWaistcoat]

I think your spot.Play Duff ON THE WING and leave Kilbane in the everton reserves or where ever he is these days.

[fergalr]

Some comments:
- Kavanagh is worth a chance simply because everyone else who has been tried there has not been up to the task.
- I'm not sure why Carr has escaped criticism. He has been very poor for us ever since he came back from injury. Finnan is a better choice at right-full.
- I've said it before but here goes ...... you're all doing Damien a huge disservice by labelling him as a "left winger". That's not his usual position for Chelsea, that's not where he played v Spain and that's not where he played in the u-20 world cup.

[Dodge]

Originally posted by Slash/ED
If Duff is played out of position AGAIN to accomadate fúcking Kilbane I think I'll cry.


He's not played there to accomodate Kilbane. he's played there because him up front and Kilbane on the left is a MUCH better option than Doherty/Morrision/Connolly up front.

And the best Duff has ever played for Ireland was in the world cup when he played up front with Keane (see also his performance v Holland in Lansdowne)

Have a go at those wasters (Doherty/Morrision/Connolly) before Kilbane

[carnstein]

Originally posted by Dodge

And the best Duff has ever played for Ireland was in the world cup when he played up front with Keane (see also his performance v Holland in Lansdowne)

This is pure ********, he only played well in the WC when he was moved out to the wing, like against Spain, he was completly ineffective up front for 70 minutes untill he was moved to midfield and he tore the spanish to shreds.

He has never put in an outstanding performance for Ireland when played up front, he should start EVERY game on the left of midfield, there has to be another option up front, be it Morrisson, Connoly, Doherty, Barrett or whoever, but when it comes to picking forwards, Duff should not even be considered!

[Plastic Paddy]

I'm inclined to agree with Carnstein and all the other posters who have said that we should start our best player in his best position. The simple fact is that wherever possible we should play our best to their strengths and fit others in around them.

Apart from Gary Doherty. As Carmela Soprano says, "enough already".

:D PP

[DolansWaistcoat]

Duffer could be European player of the year next year depending on how chelsea get on in the CL and the prem.

[Beavis]

Kilbane should be given a try at left back,he's quick,knows how to defend and won't be beaten in the air.
He often assumed this role for WBA and maybe he could do a job here for us.

PS Did everyone see how the 'usless' Kilbane has broken into the first team at Everton and how he scored the other day?

[John83]

Originally posted by Beavis
Did everyone see how the 'usless' Kilbane has broken into the first team at Everton and how he scored the other day?
Saw the highlights. Kilbane was the most surprised man on the pitch when that ball went in. Who does he have competing for the left wing at Everton again?

[tetsujin1979]

Probably McFadden at the moment, I've seen him there for Everton a few times since he signed for them.

Going back to him leaving Sunderland, I saw a few times on the web fans stating that they didn't want him to leave, just he didn't want to sign a new contract so better to take any cash for him now rather than lose him for nothing in the summer.

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by Dodge
He's not played there to accomodate Kilbane. he's played there because him up front and Kilbane on the left is a MUCH better option than Doherty/Morrision/Connolly up front.

And the best Duff has ever played for Ireland was in the world cup when he played up front with Keane (see also his performance v Holland in Lansdowne)

Have a go at those wasters (Doherty/Morrision/Connolly) before Kilbane

No offence, but that's a load of rubbish.

Duff did crap all up front in the world cup, the only time he looked good was in the second half when he moved to the wing. In fact, the only time Ireland looked like getting a goal was in the second half when he moved to the wing. Against Holland I can barley recall him touching the ball let alone running at the Dutch defence causing problems.

The best games Duff has had for Ireland have been on the wing (Denmark, Spain, Canada) when he's been up front he's looked very very infeffective.

Morrison is a better option up front then Kilbane is wide left. The proof is in the goals record of the Duff/Keane partnership compared to the Morrison/Keane one. Duff and Keane were a terrible strike force, they rarely scored and neither of them suited playing with each other, at least Morrison stays in the box and lets Keane drop deep without us playing with the handicap of having no striker near the opponents 18 yard like, which is what Keanes game is all about.

If you can name me one good game Duff had up front that gets anywhere near matching the three games I mentioned there I'd be amazed.

[Dodge]

Originally posted by Slash/ED


If you can name me one good game Duff had up front that gets anywhere near matching the three games I mentioned there I'd be amazed.
At home to Holland. And as soon as start saying one of his best gameswas against canada you start losing the argument...

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by Dodge
At home to Holland. And as soon as start saying one of his best gameswas against canada you start losing the argument...

Well he's barley played on the left, started there all of twice in recent times and that was one of them. Like I said, at home to Holland was fantastic for the team but I don't remember Duff sticking out at all from watching the match live and he certinally is barley mentioned on the road to asia highlights of it. He's not a striker, simple as that, playing him as one is detrimental to him, to Robbie Keane and to the teams attack as a whole. Playing Morrison up there and at least the rest of the team loses nothing, and he's liable to chip in with a few goals, he's proven that.

[Dodge]

In fairness I thought he was EASILY man of the match that day. I'd love him to play wide left but as long as we have absolutely no other options up front I'd play him there. Not ideal but there you go...

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by Dodge
In fairness I thought he was EASILY man of the match that day. I'd love him to play wide left but as long as we have absolutely no other options up front I'd play him there. Not ideal but there you go...

My main problem is he and Keane just don't produce goals together and we rely too much on goal scoring mid fielders which wont bail us out every time when playing him there, at least with Morrison Keane seems to get more himself, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree :)

[carnstien]

Originally posted by Dodge
In fairness I thought he was EASILY man of the match that day. I'd love him to play wide left but as long as we have absolutely no other options up front I'd play him there. Not ideal but there you go...

Roy Keane was by far our best player at home to Holland. Duff did nothing, he hardly touched the ball all game.

And there is an alternative to playing Duff up front and that is Morrison, he has a great goalscoring record at international level and he deserves a run in the team. He links up far better with Keane that Duff does, as Morrisson tends to stay in the box and Keane likes to drift around.

[Niamh_GalwayGal]

play harte beside keane up front

just have him sit down somehere and be quiet until we need him to take free kicks.

cant be worse than doherty ;)

[Ozymandias]

In relation to the midfield...People on here are still claiming holland is good enough...afte the last three matches (canada included) i think he has been pure s***e....Healy was hung out to dry by Hollands Inadequacy particularly against russia and swiss...Healy at least continued to try and create and pass the ball while holland left him unprotected to deal with two men...Hollnad has been terrible since the world cup after he claimed he would step into roys shoes and lead our midfield (which we all hoped he would do to some degree all knowing he isn't as good a player but the best we had left).....I think healy is a better option and with a years football behind him at sunderland will only get better....Maybe Holland will rediscover his appetite but at the moment I think he has been our worst player on average in the last qualifying campaign....yep worse than Harte


Now I have it off my chest...I'll sit down

[DolansWaistcoat]

I'd like to see Healy get back in but Holland has the advantage of playing prem football every week,hopefully Healy will get back in the prem with sunderland.I dont like seeing to many div 1 players in the irish squad.Matt holland has been playing great stuff lately with Charlton and they are flying in the premership up in the top 5 or 6.

[colster]

Over the next few games I reckon we can try out a few midfield combinations and come up with a good one to start the WC qualifyinng campaign.
Whatever we do we need to give Clinton Morrisson a run of games with Keane up front and Duff on the left.
A.Reid should compete with Miller for a place on the right.

When you consider that we can put out a team like this who are all playing in the top flight things can't be that bad.

Given
Carr O'Shea Cunningham Finnan
Miller Holland Delap Duff
Morrisson Keane

[John83]

Originally posted by Niamh_GalwayGal
play harte beside keane up front

just have him sit down somehere and be quiet until we need him to take free kicks.

cant be worse than doherty ;)

Unfortunately, Harte's free kicks seem to have gone the way of any defensive skill he ever had. I haven't seen him hit a good one in ages. Leave them to Duffer.

[John83]

Originally posted by colster
Over the next few games I reckon we can try out a few midfield combinations and come up with a good one to start the WC qualifyinng campaign.
Whatever we do we need to give Clinton Morrisson a run of games with Keane up front and Duff on the left.
A.Reid should compete with Miller for a place on the right.

When you consider that we can put out a team like this who are all playing in the top flight things can't be that bad.

Given
Carr O'Shea Cunningham Finnan
Miller Holland Delap Duff
Morrisson Keane

I mostly agree, but O'Shea and Morrisson aren't getting games for their clubs at the moment, while Delap doesn't seem to ever get a look in for Ireland (maybe try him up front ;)) and Miller is only comming off the bench in his first season of senior football.

[colster]

Originally posted by John83
I mostly agree, but O'Shea and Morrisson aren't getting games for their clubs at the moment, while Delap doesn't seem to ever get a look in for Ireland (maybe try him up front ;)) and Miller is only comming off the bench in his first season of senior football.

You could replace O'Shea with Dunne. Dunne has broken back into Man CIty team.
I think Delap would provide a bit of steel in midifield.
I think we need to give Morrisson a run of games.