Giovanni at a Premier league game?

[Denis The Red]

I looked for a thread giving out about Trap not being at a Premier League match and couldn't find one. Maybe it's just Pat Dolan's imagination but I was led to believe that he dosen't go to matches but lets Liam and Marco do it instead. Who was that talking to Capello at the Blackburn-Newcastle game today?:rolleyes:

[Trainee]

http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=1088268#post1088268

[Denis The Red]

Yeah, I got that. I was looking for a thread saying he NEVER goes to matches. There was a lot of negativity around after the Polish match and even before saying he dosen't know his players and dosen't go to watch them. Today proved them wrong, two games in one day, fair dues.

[topia]

honestly dont get the point in you starting this thread in a smug way because trap actually attended matches for one day since he took over, he should want to do this on a regular basis, you mentioned capello, he is the complete opposite he attends many games evry weekend to keep track of his players.

[richieos]

he has actually attended a few matches before this one. i remember a few weeks ago he went to watch ipswich play

[kingdomkerry]

I could'nt give a flying fcuk if he never went to an english game so long as we qualify for the world cup!

[richieos]

I could'nt give a flying fcuk if he never went to an english game so long as we qualify for the world cup!

agree 100%

[rambler14]

He was also at Preston vs Burnley.

I'd expect to see either Stephen Elliott or Sean St Ledger in the squad as a resultOr maybe even Chris McCann.
I personally would love to see St Ledger get in on recent form as potential cover for Dunne who lets face it is liable to do anything these days!

[boovidge]

^great to hear he was at that game

[third policeman]

I could'nt give a flying fcuk if he never went to an english game so long as we qualify for the world cup!


I think the point is that we would have a better chance of qualifying if the manager knew more about the players and picked the right ones. Great to see Trapp at Preston yesterday, but it has taken the management team long enough to check out a player who has been performing outstandingly all season. St Ledger must be called up.

[FarBeag]

I'd say it was St Ledger he was looking at. We just don't have the luxury to ignore quality centre backs playing well at the moment.


You make me laugh. I am sure you know why that is!:D

[richieos]

ive only been on this forum a few months, but hasnt ciaran constantly said that st.ledger isnt good enough to be called up? or was it a different ciaran

[richieos]

Ahhh here we go :D



It wasn't so long ago that half this forum were comparing McShane to Paul McGrath. But when he was taken out of the championship that all changed.

The onus is on St Ledger to prove he warrants a place by challenging himself at a more appropriate level for international soccer, not on Trap to pick him.
He's got potential but he's not for this campaign, likewise Garvan, McCann and the others.

[Duggie]

I could'nt give a flying fcuk if he never went to an english game so long as we qualify for the world cup!

agree, i never understood all the fuss about this. not a huge issue for me.

[Shilts]

I think the point is that we would have a better chance of qualifying if the manager knew more about the players and picked the right ones. Great to see Trapp at Preston yesterday, but it has taken the management team long enough to check out a player who has been performing outstandingly all season. St Ledger must be called up.

I have to laugh when muppets on a forum think they can second guess one of the great managers of modern times... fact! If Trapp thinks that the best way to pick the squad is by drawing lots then he's right. His methods are right more often than not ...and have been working for us also!!! Just let him get on with the job of getting us to the world cup

[dr_peepee]

Balls to that... If he's not gonna get exposure to the players via squad variety he should be at more games, full stop. What's he basing his selections on since his first get together.... A friendly against an uninterested Forest Team?

Trapp knows football. He's given our starting 11 a sense of purpose and direction we're not know for a few years.

However Trapp knows f'ck all about the players availible to him and has done very little to counter that. I heard the interview were he didn't even know who Rory Delap was. According to another thread Trapp cites the Gulf between Championship and International football, yet includes players that can't get a regular game at club level in the Championship (Long, Kehoe, Gibson last year, Bruce). It's bullsh!t. Trapps a knowledgable man, but he's bone idle.

[osarusan]

I have to laugh when muppets on a forum think they can second guess one of the great managers of modern times... fact! If Trapp thinks that the best way to pick the squad is by drawing lots then he's right. His methods are right more often than not ...and have been working for us also!!!
Rubbish. Trap has a responsibility to pick the team best suited for the job. That means that the team may change based on the opposition, but it certainly means Trap has to know who is in form, who isnt in form, what each player abilities and limitations are, what their attitude to certain tasks is like, etc. To me, that is not going beyond the call of duty, that is the minimum a manager should be doing.

I cant see a way he can get this information without watching the players on a regular basis. And until recently, he hadn't been doing that. He was rightly criticised for it in my opinion.

[SkStu]

Balls to that... If he's not gonna get exposure to the players via squad variety he should be at more games, full stop. What's he basing his selections on since his first get together.... A friendly against an uninterested Forest Team?

Trapp knows football. He's given our starting 11 a sense of purpose and direction we're not know for a few years.

However Trapp knows f'ck all about the players availible to him and has done very little to counter that. I heard the interview were he didn't even know who Rory Delap was. According to another thread Trapp cites the Gulf between Championship and International football, yet includes players that can't get a regular game at club level in the Championship (Long, Kehoe, Gibson last year, Bruce). It's bullsh!t. Trapps a knowledgable man, but he's bone idle.

as usual on this matter DrP, i agree with you 100%. Trap is lazy and self contradictory. Bland, uninspiring squad which rewards mediocrity and ignores potential. His support team must shoulder some of the blame too in my opinion. I'm getting more and more disillusioned by the game, the Poland game is a sign of our future under this team. Conservative manager, conservative tactics/style serviced by average players.

Just my opinion but I would rather not qualify for this tournament and instead blood some of the very exciting young talents plying their trade in the Premier and Championship.

[Stuttgart88]

Balls to that... If he's not gonna get exposure to the players via squad variety he should be at more games, full stop. What's he basing his selections on since his first get together.... A friendly against an uninterested Forest Team?

Trapp knows football. He's given our starting 11 a sense of purpose and direction we're not know for a few years.

However Trapp knows f'ck all about the players availible to him and has done very little to counter that. I heard the interview were he didn't even know who Rory Delap was. According to another thread Trapp cites the Gulf between Championship and International football, yet includes players that can't get a regular game at club level in the Championship (Long, Kehoe, Gibson last year, Bruce). It's bullsh!t. Trapps a knowledgable man, but he's bone idle.Hard to disagree with that. Well said. You could add that he seems to be too reliant on the likes of Givens whose judgment or even objectivity is questionable.

[Colbert Report]

Forget blooding new players for the future, we play so few matches per year that it is not worth sacrifcing results now for potential later. Staunton was all about blooding new talent and who is a regular in the team now thanks to him? Nobody.

Trap should be picking our best players available for each match. This means including players such as Carsley who will still be Championship regulars by the time the World Cup rolls around seventeen months from now. He needs to forget this Whelan-Gibson central midfield partnership and go for two much more experienced players. Nothing against Whelan or Gibson, but they have not proven themselves in my opinion yet.

I was glad we lost to Poland because it showed everyone that his tactics were not working. I was glad because we didn't need a qualifier loss to prove this. Why does he persist with crap players and a crap approach to playing the game?

[Shilts]

Just my opinion but I would rather not qualify for this tournament and instead blood some of the very exciting young talents plying their trade in the Premier and Championship.

For what purpose... to possibly qualify for another tournament maybe? Today is all that matters- the qualifying tournament is on NOW. Let's try our best to qualify rather than putting our house on 'exciting young talents', who if they are good enough will get their chance anyway.

[FarBeag]

For what purpose... to possibly qualify for another tournament maybe? Today is all that matters- the qualifying tournament is on NOW. Let's try our best to qualify rather than putting our house on 'exciting young talents', who if they are good enough will get their chance anyway.


Yes but surely we would have a better chance of qualifying if Trap picked better players than some of the ones he has picked. St Ledger is a much better footballer than Bruce and McShane for instance and Reid a better one than Miller.

[dr_peepee]

I have to laugh when muppets on a forum think they can second guess one of the great managers of modern times... fact! If Trapp thinks that the best way to pick the squad is by drawing lots then he's right. His methods are right more often than not ...and have been working for us also!!!


Today is all that matters- the qualifying tournament is on NOW.

OK So Today and Now who is a better central defensive midfeilder. Lee Carsley or Darren Gisbon. Try and answer without compromising your posts.

He's just not exhausting enough avenues to back up his stance for my liking.

[SkStu]

For what purpose... to possibly qualify for another tournament maybe? Today is all that matters- the qualifying tournament is on NOW. Let's try our best to qualify rather than putting our house on 'exciting young talents', who if they are good enough will get their chance anyway.

its called foresight - okay, you seem to want the immediate gratification of qualification for a tournament, one that if we do qualify for it we will be humiliated - whatever about qualifying groups, that team and style will be ripped apart by any decent team. That is something i am not too keen on.

Perhaps i didnt make it clear in my first post but as well as having "exciting young talents" with potential, these same players are arguably better than those being selected right now, experience or not. They are playing regularly and are generally excelling at their level. I would rather see these players being handed the reigns or at the very least being handed a chance.

I was excited by Traps appointment as i thought everyone would start with a fresh slate and that he would do his utmost to evaluate the pool of players at our disposal. In this regard i think he has utterly failed and has taken the lazy option and listened to those with vested interests. It sickens me. What a waste of excitement, what a waste of money. The fact that there is even a need for this thread says a lot in my opinion.

To back Trap without questioning or evaluating his decisions or even understanding who the people are that are advising him and examining their motives, as quite a few people here do, is madness in the extreme.

I would rather Traps legacy be a young exciting team ready to step it up to the next level than qualification for a WC and then utter humiliation. But thats just me.

[FarBeag]

Well articulated SkStu. 100% agree with everything here.

[Shilts]

Well girls... we'll just have to agree to disagree on some things in life :)

[Stuttgart88]

OK So Today and Now who is a better central defensive midfeilder. Lee Carsley or Darren Gisbon.
I'm still not convinced any of us fully understands Trap's system and I think this stems from that awful & misused term "holding midfielder" that prevails in Ireland & UK. For me, using this term is like us Irish only having one word for snow whereas eskimos have over 40, depending on its type. I believe that Italians have multiple terms for midfielders, each with its own nuance and descriptive ability.

Every hack I've read blandly describes Trap's systen as having 2 holding midfielders and 2 wingers. This was even when Steven Reid was in the team. Regardless of his club role, Reid's role under Trap was anything but "holding" midfielder. The classic holder was Whelan.

Therefore I think it's more apt to ask if Whelan or Carsley is better.

Despite the widespread perception of Trap's preference - probably compounded by his mistrust of Andy Reid - I still think he likes a guy in the middle who can use the ball creatively, or at least keep the ball rolling, bringing others into the game. I think this is precisely what Gibson can do though I personally believe he is a gamble at this level, as is Whelan.

Aside from this, I think integrating young players is a tricky task. Staunton did it with such widespread abandon that he did more damage than good. In fairness to Trap he has made a decision on which youngsters to work with. It may be worse to, for example, give Gibson a couple of games and then bin him in favour of another youngster who'd need a few games to play himself in.

I do think that leaving out your current best options in favour of future best options is generally misguided. Alex Ferguson has the luxury of a 70 game season to gradually bring in younger players. We only have a handful and given our failure to qualify for anything in over 7 years the here and now is more important than if we'd had recent success and were in a better place to take chances.

I think Trap is by and large on the right track but some selections / non-selections grate at me. I can't help feel that Givens has undue influence.

[dr_peepee]

I'm still not convinced any of us fully understands Trap's system and I think this stems from that awful & misused term "holding midfielder" that prevails in Ireland & UK. For me, using this term is like us Irish only having one word for snow whereas eskimos have over 40, depending on its type. I believe that Italians have multiple terms for midfielders, each with its own nuance and descriptive ability.

Every hack I've read blandly describes Trap's systen as having 2 holding midfielders and 2 wingers. This was even when Steven Reid was in the team. Regardless of his club role, Reid's role under Trap was anything but "holding" midfielder. The classic holder was Whelan.

Therefore I think it's more apt to ask if Whelan or Carsley is better.

Despite the widespread perception of Trap's preference - probably compounded by his mistrust of Andy Reid - I still think he likes a guy in the middle who can use the ball creatively, or at least keep the ball rolling, bringing others into the game. I think this is precisely what Gibson can do though I personally believe he is a gamble at this level, as is Whelan.

Aside from this, I think integrating young players is a tricky task. Staunton did it with such widespread abandon that he did more damage than good. In fairness to Trap he has made a decision on which youngsters to work with. It may be worse to, for example, give Gibson a couple of games and then bin him in favour of another youngster who'd need a few games to play himself in.

I do think that leaving out your current best options in favour of future best options is generally misguided. Alex Ferguson has the luxury of a 70 game season to gradually bring in younger players. We only have a handful and given our failure to qualify for anything in over 7 years the here and now is more important than if we'd had recent success and were in a better place to take chances.

I think Trap is by and large on the right track but some selections / non-selections grate at me. I can't help feel that Givens has undue influence.

Fair point. But let's face it, Trapp has fairly very limited/specific expectations from his central midfielders. It almost seems to me that the central players are given a couple of options for each scenario A, B or C and warned not to venture from it. Someone else on another thread reckons Steven Reid took matters into his own hands from time to time, but had enought savi to know when to do that.

P.S If I was paranoid I'd even put out a theory that the reason Trapp keeps opting for lower profile central options is purely because he knows they'll work exactly within the constraints he wants from a player in that role, where as a player with more experience/status might have ideas themselves. If that's his stance, well and good. It's not for me to disagree with (Still doesn't explain Alex Bruce).

The crux of my argument revolves purely around his efforts, or lack there of, in ensuring we have the best panel available to us. My point on Gibson and Carsley was a dig at that dude for calling us Morons for quesitoning the Gospel according to Trapp.

[DeLorean]

My point on Gibson and Carsley was a dig at that dude for calling us Morons for quesitoning the Gospel according to Trapp.

I think that's the biggest aspect of this forum. We are well within our right to question Trapp...he's had a magnificant career but it's not a flawless one. Italy were brutal under his guidance in the 02WC and 04EUROS.

[tetsujin1979]

I think that's the biggest aspect of this forum. We are well within our right to question Trapp...he's had a magnificant career but it's not a flawless one. Italy were brutal under his guidance in the 02WC and 04EUROS.
Quite frankly, I'd be happy with any record at the World Cup and European Championships.
Well, happier than I am right now anyway.