FAI to look at return to winter football

[A face]

I'm not here to PROVE anything, just following up on a comment made.

Well i didn't mean you personally yourself to go out there and prove it ;)


Yes it makes for more comfortable viewing conditions, but all I'm saying is there is more distractions in the summer.

But even if there was, are you seriously suggesting that its grounds to move to the other side of the calendar, cos you want to bring the kids to the beach? Sure we might as well throw the towel in now if thats the case so.


You're the only one obsessed with whales.

And the whole population of Sligo apparently :p Theres whole schools of them up there. None down the sunny south east, thats why theres nothing to detract from your attendances ..... i mean .... err ahhh ..... So yeah, whales, largest fish in the world y'know !!! :p

[Inside Man]

Winter football = higher attendances for rural clubs and arguably the just same attendances for Dublin Clubs.
But it certainly would make the league more sustainable in the current economic climate. Forget about watching the football in your warmth instead of freezing cold!.. Because you may not even have a club/LEAGUE if this summer football continues!

[passerrby]

Winter football = higher attendances for rural clubs and arguably the just same attendances for Dublin Clubs.
But it certainly would make the league more sustainable in the current economic climate. Forget about watching the football in your warmth instead of freezing cold!.. Because you may not even have a club/LEAGUE if this summer football continues!

how did you do the maths
why would it be more sustanable
where is the evidence to support your final point.

[dcfcsteve]

how did you do the maths
why would it be more sustanable
where is the evidence to support your final point.

Ssssshhh !

You should know better than to try to argue against firmly held prejudices on the basis of reasoned arguement.

[neutrino]

i think some people arguing for winter football based on improved attendances are remembering things a bit more rosily than they were. Many's the night in the past 10 years i sat in a cold and wet Showgrounds freezing among a very sparse crowd. I don't buy into our club wanting a return to winter football because of attendances. I'd say well show me the figures. This whole topic is being used as a scapegoat to hide present problems.On cup runs and big games there'll always be a larger crowd regardless of it being winter or summer, but these are the exception more than the rule and have always been. Moving back to winter soccer would prove to be a disaster IMO.

[mypost]

But even if there was, are you seriously suggesting that its grounds to move to the other side of the calendar, cos you want to bring the kids to the beach? Sure we might as well throw the towel in now if thats the case so.

:D:D

Neither Sligo nor Waterford are rural. Christmas is a great time to go to games, unfortunately it is too in the EPL. Liverpool-mancs on the box, or Waterford-Sligo in the rain, sleet and snow. What's going to get picked?

Going back to winter, means clashing with EPL on the box every weekend, and the days of 0-10 defeats in Europe. A non-starter.

[jebus]

Winter football = higher attendances for rural clubs and arguably the just same attendances for Dublin Clubs.
But it certainly would make the league more sustainable in the current economic climate. Forget about watching the football in your warmth instead of freezing cold!.. Because you may not even have a club/LEAGUE if this summer football continues!

Has to be done, sorry

http://i43.tinypic.com/i4phqe.jpg

[osarusan]

Just because something used to happen doesn't automatically make it desireable.
Nor have I said it (a return to winter football) was desirable. Nor do I think a return to winter football is desirable.


I was replying to your post, where you said this -

There is a benefit to winter football A Face.
It provides a convenient option for those frantically searching for silver bullets for the predicament of Irish football.


I think you are wrong, and I said so with this-

To be fair, I don't think anybody has portrayed it as a silver bullet for LOI football. Most who favour it see it as more anthentic than summer football, and to be honest, cold winter nights at a football game does have a nice (if bloody freezing) ring to it.

and by 'authentic' I mean-

Because that's the way Irish people watched LOI for decades. Freezing their balls off in winter.
I think that for some people (not including me) this history of playing winter football brings about a feeling of 'that's the way football should be' .

My point is that as far as I've seen on this thread, a few fans have argued (pretty weakly in my opinion) that winter football would increase attendances, and some just prefer it, but virtually nobody has said winter football is a silver bullet for Irish football, as you have suggested people believe.

I'm suggesting reasons why some fans might favour winter football over summer football.

Personally I prefer winter football but, would the pitches hold up in the wosre weather?

i personally want it to go back to winter soccer. there was nothing like xmas footie and friends you hadnt seen in ages come to matches at xmas. really miss that buzz.:(


Personally my preference is winter football. Something about games in the freezing cold or rain under floodlights in a semi tribal atmosphere does it for me. night games seem to be better games and more entertaining than a game in mid may or june.
Summer football doesn't really offer that to me.


I'll always prefer the feel of winter football to summer football, but that bolded point by CelticTiger is the most sensible I've seen in regards to this.

4 posters who prefer winter football (although 2 want to stick with summer football for practical reasons) without seeing it as a silver bullet of any kind.

[noby]

But even if there was, are you seriously suggesting that its grounds to move to the other side of the calendar, cos you want to bring the kids to the beach?

No.


People can laugh and joke about it all they want, but good summer weather can also have a detrimental effect on attendances. Not enough to change back to winter, perhaps, but it is a factor.

Family activities in the summer might stop some people from going to matches. That's all I'm saying. Enough to justify changing back? Of course not.
Personally speaking I go to matches for the first third of the season, then it tails off, and picks up again in September. I don't expect the FAI to change back to winter football just to keep me happy though.

[A face]

No.

Family activities in the summer might stop some people from going to matches. That's all I'm saying. Enough to justify changing back? Of course not.
Personally speaking I go to matches for the first third of the season, then it tails off, and picks up again in September. I don't expect the FAI to change back to winter football just to keep me happy though.

Hey Noby, i hear ya fella. Point taken, and i know what your saying about the way i'm making my point but i just think its a ridiculous suggestion with so much going on in the league and people are genuinely suggesting this as a positive move.

[noby]

Well it would be typical of the league to jump back to winter without giving it a chance, but it would be the wrong thing to do. As Macy has mentioned a proper analysis would be nice.

As for the poll, my vote was selfish, and not considering what would be good for the league.

[shantykelly]

how about trying to make going to a football match in the summer one of those events that families will do (well, maybe not the majority of mothers). summer football is, to me, a big improvement over the previous arrangement. despite all the nostalgia about watching a match in the freezing cold, with the option of snow or rain as an accompaniment, then i woulkd rather go for getting wet in the relative warmth of summer.

[noby]

We went to a few at the end of last summer. The eldest two would be more interested in going this year, I would imagine, so we'll probably make a few more matches.

I realise I'm never going to win supporter of the year, but on a sunny Friday evening, faced with the choice between a 60 mile round trip to a home match, and cracking open a beer and lighting the bbq, the footie can often lose out.
(I think I have veered away from the winter football debate towards the 'how lazy am I?' debate)

[brianw82]

i think some people arguing for winter football based on improved attendances are remembering things a bit more rosily than they were. Many's the night in the past 10 years i sat in a cold and wet Showgrounds freezing among a very sparse crowd. I don't buy into our club wanting a return to winter football because of attendances. I'd say well show me the figures. This whole topic is being used as a scapegoat to hide present problems.On cup runs and big games there'll always be a larger crowd regardless of it being winter or summer, but these are the exception more than the rule and have always been. Moving back to winter soccer would prove to be a disaster IMO.

Couldn't agree more. Some Rovers fans are simply taking everything Michael Toolin says at face value. They don't remember that our outgoings weren't NEARLY so large back during the winter seasons. If we weren't paying out way more than we could afford last year (and the year before) the issue of attendances at SRFC would not been raised nearly as much as it was. FFS, we are probably in the top 4 clubs in the league in terms of average attendances!

[Magicme]

how about trying to make going to a football match in the summer one of those events that families will do (well, maybe not the majority of mothers). summer football is, to me, a big improvement over the previous arrangement. despite all the nostalgia about watching a match in the freezing cold, with the option of snow or rain as an accompaniment, then i woulkd rather go for getting wet in the relative warmth of summer.

As a parent the change over to Summer football was a great blessing for a few reasons:

1. My sons, when they go to a match, want to show their colours and in the winter wearing a jersey (without the jacket coz they refuse to cover it up) is not practical. They can wear a long sleeve top/sweatshirt under the jersey so they are still warm enough but there are less arguments over me trying to keep them warm and dry during the summer season.

2. As the evenings are longer between March and November they are not as tired and cranky at 10 o'clock when we are heading home from the game as they would be in the dreary winter nights.

3. Particularly during the summer holidays, keeping kids entertained is an expensive business. They want trips here there and everywhere but at least with the promise of at least every 2nd week a trip to KCP and the possiblity of trips to other more exotic places like Longford and Athlone or even a weekend away in Wexford, they are being entertained for cheaper than constant trips to Bundoran or Bettystown.

4. With Summer football I only have to take the kids out of school early a few fridays to head to away games whereas if it was during the winter months I wouldnt be able to come up with as many "family occasions" to pretend they are disappearing to.

5. Bringing them to matches encourages them to get out there and play more football themselves and as the weather brightens up a little this is more possible.

There are 3 F's in my life that mean more than anything: Family, Friends (including my fella) and Football. Summer Football allows me to fit these better together.

[BulmersKid]

Seriously good post!

[A face]

Seriously good post!

I second that

[El-Pietro]

Pats vs Cork City june bank holiday weekend
Derry vs Cork City june 3-2:p
FC Haka vs Cork City July
Bohs vs Cork City July
there was prob a few home games too.
pats was gorgeous - with the bbq before hand was nearly a perfect trip - pity the result didnt go our way
ive just worn short sleeves for the majority of the summer games - from may/june on until september

maybe its just warmer in cork!

[ShnaeGuevara715]

Wales are definitely looking at summer football aswell, so theres plenty of arguments on either side being made by them folk too.

I can see the smaller north european leagues all moving towards this actually. First Scandinavia, Russia, then ourselves, maybe northern ireland eventually in some all Ireland thing and now Wales. Though the Old Firm would probably never let it happen, its always debated in Scotland http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/7777792.stm

Surely if these are the teams in our draw that we'd come across in Europe, the northern region, then we shouldnt disadvantage ourselves on sporting grounds.

Also especially seeing as though the main outside investment coming into the league is with the view to using our door to the champions league, realistic or not, nothing should be done to diminish that flank of investment.

Stick with it i say, making the commute on public transport to stadia is a lot more pleasant in months that arent december, january lol

(just quickly researching it, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia play with 10 team summer(8 for lithuania) football prem divisions which is also the model that wales is looking at, same model the danish prem started with. The scandinavian leagues (and scotland) started with 10 then expanded as they grew in quality. This is obviously the longterm model the fai is looking at, and in general, it actually seems to work in long term. Crowds in Norway have doubled. Even copied the setanta cup thing. Belarus does summer footie too. Funny enough the Ukraine prem has a 3month winter break but only 1 month between seasons lol)

[citybone]

Wales are definitely looking at summer football aswell, so theres plenty of arguments on either side being made by them folk too.

I can see the smaller north european leagues all moving towards this actually. First Scandinavia, Russia, then ourselves, maybe northern ireland eventually in some all Ireland thing and now Wales. Though the Old Firm would probably never let it happen, its always debated in Scotland http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/7777792.stm

Surely if these are the teams in our draw that we'd come across in Europe, the northern region, then we shouldnt disadvantage ourselves on sporting grounds.

Also especially seeing as though the main outside investment coming into the league is with the view to using our door to the champions league, realistic or not, nothing should be done to diminish that flank of investment.

Stick with it i say, making the commute on public transport to stadia is a lot more pleasant in months that arent december, january lol

(just quickly researching it, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia play with 10 team summer(8 for lithuania) football prem divisions which is also the model that wales is looking at, same model the danish prem started with. The scandinavian leagues (and scotland) started with 10 then expanded as they grew in quality. This is obviously the longterm model the fai is looking at, and in general, it actually seems to work in long term. Crowds in Norway have doubled. Even copied the setanta cup thing. Belarus does summer footie too. Funny enough the Ukraine prem has a 3month winter break but only 1 month between seasons lol)

it does make sense they suffer from the continental effect and summers are much warmer than ours also that would make there winters much colder so makes sense to play the league outside of these harsh conditions

[BohDiddley]

Crowds in Norway have doubled.
How? Solely on the basis of restructuring?

[ShnaeGuevara715]

Well, i think its that the average went up because theyre not playing the smaller clubs, like how average of the LoI will go up without ucd etc. The standard was a bit higher without the weaker teams (despite the repetitive fixture list), quality got better, bit more dosh. Rosenborg cracked champions league, more investment, better players, squad, exposure, interest, bigger turn out blah blah blah.

Upward spiral i guess? Obviously it'll be what the FAI is hoping for here in the long run... but is their analysis too simplistic, will it work as well here?

[John83]

Well, i think its that the average went up because theyre not playing the smaller clubs, like how average of the LoI will go up without ucd etc. ...
Every now and then, I feel a twinge of guilt about dancing on the graves of Dublin City, Shels, Drogheda, Cork, Bohs, Galway and all of the other ****-ant clubs who have a fundamental misunderstanding of budgeting which has or will eventually cost them their fixed assets and finally their very existence. There are decent people who follow all of these clubs, except maybe for Drogheda (the only nice people I've ever met from Drogheda have turned out to be natives of Meath), and I take no pleasure in their pain when their clubs suddenly announce that actually, running a huge loss while in debt may not actually be the finest business plan ever determined. And then I get a reminder. And so, this reminds me of an old Simpsons quote, because pretty much everything does.

"Oh gosh. You know, I'm not much on speeches, but it's so gratifying to... leave you wallowing in the mess you've made. You're screwed, thank you, bye."

Enjoy playing in a field somewhere in the wilds of north Dublin, dreaming of being Rosenborg.

[jebus]

Maybe it's cause I support a First Division club (although that doesn't seem to be stopping others) but am I the only one who doesn't give a crap when it comes to European results?

I may be more inclined to think about them if we had a fully functioning league that was beginning to capture the minds of the fickle Irish sports fan, but we don't, so I'm more concerned with that, and to that extent I don't think we're ready for winter football, although I would love to see us change back once the stadia are up to scratch, regardless of what our European brothers are doing, because I do think it is engrained in the minds of the public that the football season runs alongside the school year, but until the stadia are capable of providing even basic shelter it's a non runner for me

[osarusan]

"Oh gosh. You know, I'm not much on speeches, but it's so gratifying to... leave you wallowing in the mess you've made. You're screwed, thank you, bye."

Do-do-dee-do-do-de-do.

[Scrufil]

In reality we don't have Summer soccer in Ireland. Last I checked the season starts in Spring, goes through Summer and Autumn and ends in Winter! Alls we need to do is move the season kick-off back one month (or is it forward one month? I always get confused when the clocks change!) and then the winter football period will be longer and we still have 'Summer soccer'.

If you really like change the Cup final could be played on New Year's day or Midsummer's Night but that is a whole new debate.

[John83]

If you really like change the Cup final could be played on New Year's day or Midsummer's Night but that is a whole new debate.
How about the winter solstace? We could time kickoff to coincide with the light reaching the chamber in Newgrange. It'd be early enough to keep the gardaí happy too.

[Scrufil]

How about the winter solstace? We could time kickoff to coincide with the light reaching the chamber in Newgrange. It'd be early enough to keep the gardaí happy too.

Yeah that might work but to give it extra vibes the football would have to pass through a special fire on the Hill of Tara first!

[John83]

Yeah that might work but to give it extra vibes the football would have to pass through a special fire on the Hill of Tara first!
It'd be worth it, just to see the reaction when we apply for planning permission for a stadium on Tara.

[Scrufil]

We can base the planning permission on the fact that the great hall of Tara was actually a entertainment venue and we are reviving the ancient tradition.

[dcfcsteve]

In reality we don't have Summer soccer in Ireland. Last I checked the season starts in Spring, goes through Summer and Autumn and ends in Winter! Alls we need to do is move the season kick-off back one month (or is it forward one month? I always get confused when the clocks change!) and then the winter football period will be longer and we still have 'Summer soccer'.



I feel this should make sense, but somehow it doesn't.

You do realise that any normal football league will last longer than 3 months, and therefore stretch across more than one season....? ;)

If you want to be pedantic, November is in Autumn, not Winter - whereas moving season's start back to February WOULD include Winter in the scheule, which we don't have currently... :)

[noby]

If you want to be pedantic, November is in Autumn, not Winter - whereas moving season's start back to February WOULD include Winter in the scheule, which we don't have currently... :)

When I were a lad we were thought that November was in winter, and February in spring. When did this change?

[pineapple stu]

Random fact - Ireland is the only country in the world with the seasons correct. November is in winter here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_calendar), and 1 February is the first day of spring. Every other country in the northern hemisphere has winter starting in December (it starts getting wierd once you go down south). The difference is that in Ireland, going back to Celtic times, we've timed the seasons so that the solstices and equinoces are mid-season, which makes sense; elsewhere, those dates mark the change of the season, which doesn't really make sense.

In short, Steve is, in fact, wrong. How he reacts to this event is anyone's guess. Stringent denial including numerous embarrassed or mocking smileys is my guess.

[BulmersKid]

November is in winter here,


northern hemisphere has winter starting in November

Isn't this jsut the same or am I missing something

[Réiteoir]

Wales are definitely looking at summer football aswell, so theres plenty of arguments on either side being made by them folk too.

I can see the smaller north european leagues all moving towards this actually. First Scandinavia, Russia, then ourselves, maybe northern ireland eventually in some all Ireland thing and now Wales. Though the Old Firm would probably never let it happen, its always debated in Scotland http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/7777792.stm

Surely if these are the teams in our draw that we'd come across in Europe, the northern region, then we shouldnt disadvantage ourselves on sporting grounds.

Also especially seeing as though the main outside investment coming into the league is with the view to using our door to the champions league, realistic or not, nothing should be done to diminish that flank of investment.

Stick with it i say, making the commute on public transport to stadia is a lot more pleasant in months that arent december, january lol

(just quickly researching it, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia play with 10 team summer(8 for lithuania) football prem divisions which is also the model that wales is looking at, same model the danish prem started with. The scandinavian leagues (and scotland) started with 10 then expanded as they grew in quality. This is obviously the longterm model the fai is looking at, and in general, it actually seems to work in long term. Crowds in Norway have doubled. Even copied the setanta cup thing. Belarus does summer footie too. Funny enough the Ukraine prem has a 3month winter break but only 1 month between seasons lol)

Summer football has always been in place in Norway due to the weather (iirc it was -10 and heavy snow in parts of Oslo last week, which is normal for this time of year) - the leap in crowds was due to the League being rebranded in 1990 as the Tippeligaen (it's first ever sponsor) along with a TV deal signed by Canal+ and TV2 to show a minimum of two live games a weekend from the Premier.

I quite like the Norwegian Premier - you get good crowds in fairly decent sized stadia (smallest is 7,500 up in Bodo, all the way up to 25,500 at the National Stadium) - and hopefully I'll be getting a season card for Valerenga in April!

[Réiteoir]

How? Solely on the basis of restructuring?

They've only done any wholesale restructuring for the 2009 season with the expansion of the Premier from 14 clubs to 16 clubs.

Attenadnces since the renaming to the Tippeligaen in 1990:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tippeligaen#Attendance

[pineapple stu]

Isn't this jsut the same or am I missing something
Doh!

Meant December. :o Post edited to make sense.

[Candystripe]

Well in Derry our summer is normally 4 days in the middle of May,Autumm is mid May to mid August and the rest is winter.

We don't have a springtime up here.

[passerrby]

Well in Derry our summer is normally 4 days in the middle of May,Autumm is mid May to mid August and the rest is winter.

We don't have a springtime up here.

hate to dispute your figure candy but four days of summer up there is a bit of an exageration

[osarusan]

Clearly we need a 10 team league,36 games,playing big clubs week in week out.Attracting good crowds.Simple as.


Good God man, you're at it again.

If attracting good crowds was "simple as", we'd be doing it now.

How would you choose those ten clubs? Based on population? Would Limerick (who surely have the worst attendances per population ratio in the league) be one of those teams?

Please explain how you plan to increase the crowds. When, for example, Pats play Bohs (I'm assuming they will be 2 of your 'big clubs'), how are you going to raise the attendances from what they are now?

[thischarmingman]

When I were a lad we were thought that November was in winter, and February in spring. When did this change?


Random fact - Ireland is the only country in the world with the seasons correct. November is in winter here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_calendar), and 1 February is the first day of spring. Every other country in the northern hemisphere has winter starting in December (it starts getting wierd once you go down south). The difference is that in Ireland, going back to Celtic times, we've timed the seasons so that the solstices and equinoces are mid-season, which makes sense; elsewhere, those dates mark the change of the season, which doesn't really make sense.
.

:eek::eek::eek:

I've spent the past year taking the **** out of my girlfriend (who's from Athlone) as she regards August as Autumn and November as Winter as well. And now I discover it's a fairly commonly held belief?

Mad, the lot o' you.

[shantykelly]

familiarity breeds contempt. the same 'big clubs' week in week out will only dilute any rivalry held after a length of time.

[dcfcsteve]

Random fact - Ireland is the only country in the world with the seasons correct. November is in winter here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_calendar), and 1 February is the first day of spring. Every other country in the northern hemisphere has winter starting in December (it starts getting wierd once you go down south). The difference is that in Ireland, going back to Celtic times, we've timed the seasons so that the solstices and equinoces are mid-season, which makes sense; elsewhere, those dates mark the change of the season, which doesn't really make sense.

In short, Steve is, in fact, wrong. How he reacts to this event is anyone's guess. Stringent denial including numerous embarrassed or mocking smileys is my guess.


I'm loving the fact that Ireland is apparently right here - it's the rest of the world that's got it all wrong.

Though you have surpassed even your own extremely high standard of nerdish tedium here Stu. Congratulations fella. No smilies required.

[mypost]

Every other country in the northern hemisphere has winter starting in December (it starts getting wierd once you go down south). The difference is that in Ireland, going back to Celtic times, we've timed the seasons so that the solstices and equinoces are mid-season, which makes sense.

The official start of a season is the solstice date.

It can't be autumn in August here, when the temperature is a warm 20c+. Similiarly, it can't be spring on frosty February nights. It's spring in mid-March, and summer from mid-June until mid-September.