Clubs hold crisis talks in bid to secure survival Print

[A face]

Financial problems are continuing to plague League of Ireland clubs, with three sides holding crisis meetings in a bid to secure their survival.

Finn Harps are appealing to fans for further support in raising €150,000 before January 26, while Drogheda United are thought to have an even bigger mountain to climb.

Athlone's Patrons Scheme, meanwhile, hopes to raise €400,000 over two years to clear the club's debts.


Read more at www.breakingnews.ie (http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/soccer/mhsnmhcwaumh/)

[Inside Man]

This is becoming a joke. In fact its well behond that. I can't help but worry that clubs will get out of all these problems due to huge work by supporters and clubs will take this for granted. Then 3-4 years down the line we will end up back in this god forsaken mess with clubs appealling to fans again only this time the fans will have had enough. And only too right.

[CSFShels]

Cork and Drogheda need to be in the First Division at most next season, for the good of the league. If Drogheda survive it will only have been down to charity, and players being ripped off, and even after all Cork have been through over the year, their business practices are still terrible. That manager debacle is nothing short of a joke. Neither club should be granted a Premier Licence if this league is going to improve in any way, and it is pretty debatable as to whether Drogheda should even get a First Division 1 if they survive. A League is the place for them.

[sheao]

Very tough on Finn Harps,who must raise somthing like €150,000 by January 26 as said above,I hope that the league can survive the current economic downturn.

[SMorgan]

I don't know about Cork but the situation of Drogheda United is beyond belief. Drogheda want to come out of this mess which was entirerly of their own making debt-free and still in the Premier Division. A massive bit of cop-on required. There is absolutely no reason why they can't agree to make future payments to the players. Harps, Athlone, Sligo and just about every other club in the league will start next season with big debts, why shouldn't Drogheda United.

Oh I forgot, the situation they are in is not their fault!!! Fair play to the players that stood up to them.

[sheao]

The main problem down in Cork is that City owe players wages from the examinership period last season and must pay the wages owed by the 31 Januray to get a licence from the league.

[Rovers1]

Sligo and just about every other club in the league will start next season with big debts
.

FAIK we will start at lot less "debt-ridden" next season than the other LOI clubs ;)

[LukeO]

Think Drogheda should be relegated for their sake and for the good of the league. Would like Shels to come up in their place.

[Sam_Heggy]

Think Drogheda should be relegated for their sake and for the good of the league. Would like Shels to come up in their place.

If only one club is relegated then Shels will not be promoted, should Harps and Cobh fail to meet the premier licence requirements then UCD will be staying up.

[LukeO]

On second thoughts then, I hope Drogs stay up. I hope we're rid of UCD for good!!

[sonofstan]

On second thoughts then, I hope Drogs stay up. I hope we're rid of UCD for good!!

The 'U' stands for 'Undead'

[CSFShels]

If UCD are going largely amateur, then theres no way they'll apply to be promoted to the Premier Division is there? They'd be cannonfodder.

[sligored]

I don't know about Cork but the situation of Drogheda United is beyond belief. Drogheda want to come out of this mess which was entirerly of their own making debt-free and still in the Premier Division. A massive bit of cop-on required. There is absolutely no reason why they can't agree to make future payments to the players. Harps, Athlone, Sligo and just about every other club in the league will start next season with big debts, why shouldn't Drogheda United.

Oh I forgot, the situation they are in is not their fault!!! Fair play to the players that stood up to them.

wise up you fool. get your facts right before you come on here posting.
maybe you might enlighten us as to the big debts sligo rovers are starting next year with.
i am already sick of dundalk b******* on here.

[SMorgan]

Ask your chairman. You know, the guy that said back in July.

" “It is a matter of fact that if Sligo Rovers Football Club do not raise substantial funds by the end of August 2008 the club will no longer exist in football.' "


Of course you're debt-free now. Sorry for suggesting otherwise.

:p

[Rovers Maniac]

[quote=SMorgan;1082162]Ask your chairman. You know, the guy that said back in July.


" “It is a matter of fact that if Sligo Rovers Football Club do not raise substantial funds by the end of August%

[Sam_Heggy]

On second thoughts then, I hope Drogs stay up. I hope we're rid of UCD for good!!

I didn't say we would fail to get the licence though ;) , I just said that if we were to fail then Cobh then UCD would be ahead of Shels in the pecking order for Premier places.

Before people ask, I do think we would be hammered if we were to stay up but its better getting hammered in the premier with the revenue available than getting hammered in the first division with no lucrative revenue streams available whatsoever.

[CSFShels]

Theres absolutely no way clubs who are clawing funds from the fans for survival in the close season, should be given Premier licences. Leniency like that is half the reason the league is in this state. Clubs are allowed run themselves into the ground, pay pretty much nothing to creditors, not pay their players what they're owed, and bleed the fans dry to ensure survival. Cork, Drogheda, Cobh and Harps should not be in the Premier Division next season. They've all acted despicably and if the FAI aren't going to do anything about it, they may aswell kiss goodbye to this league ever running within its means.

[Sam_Heggy]

Theres absolutely no way clubs who are clawing funds from the fans for survival in the close season, should be given Premier licences. Leniency like that is half the reason the league is in this state. Clubs are allowed run themselves into the ground, pay pretty much nothing to creditors, not pay their players what they're owed, and bleed the fans dry to ensure survival. Cork, Drogheda, Cobh and Harps should not be in the Premier Division next season. They've all acted despicably and if the FAI aren't going to do anything about it, they may aswell kiss goodbye to this league ever running within its means.

Says the model club. Short memories.

If any of the forementioned clubs were to sort out their finances then why should they be denied a place in the Premier Division?

I wonder if Shels had of been promoted would you be singing off the same hymn sheet?

[Mr A]

The developments at Harps are interesting and raise a lot of questions.

It seems the FAI vetoed the proposed budget for the year since we were carrying over debt from this year and they did not believe it could be sustained. Also, the FAI have stated that they want clubs debt free within the next few years. Hence Harps could end up in a holding pattern with a tiny budget for a year as we get our house in order.

Personally I have no problem with this and actually suspect that the FAI has saved us from ourselves.

The question is whether the FAI are taking such a strong line at all clubs and whether it is likely to be rigorously enforced at licensing time.

[higgins]

Cork and Drogheda should be demoted for non payment of creditors. Paying any creditor less than 100% what they are owed is gaining a sporting advantage on all other teams. It should be punished by demotion in my mind.

Then Harps, Cobh and UCD should be offered the places should they gain a premier licence.

Seems unlikely now that Harps would event want one let alone get one!

[Schumi]

The developments at Harps are interesting and raise a lot of questions.

It seems the FAI vetoed the proposed budget for the year since we were carrying over debt from this year and they did not believe it could be sustained. Also, the FAI have stated that they want clubs debt free within the next few years. Hence Harps could end up in a holding pattern with a tiny budget for a year as we get our house in order.So does this mean that the €150k is pay for the higher budget? Can't see people giving money if that's the case.

[A face]

Cork and Drogheda should be demoted for non payment of creditors. Paying any creditor less than 100% what they are owed is gaining a sporting advantage on all other teams. It should be punished by demotion in my mind.

Then Harps, Cobh and UCD should be offered the places should they gain a premier licence.

Seems unlikely now that Harps would event want one let alone get one!

Hang on there, i just have to check something ....... okay okay ..... PHEW, thank god for that ..... It aint up to you so we might be alright !! ;)

[Sam_Heggy]

Seems unlikely now that Harps would event want one let alone get one!

Should Harps be offered a Premier place then they will take it.

How could any club in their right mind turn down the place when:

1 - much less travel, apart from the 2 trips to Cork our next furthest away would be Galway. Whereas if in the first we would have away trips against, waterford, Cobh, Wexford and Limerick to look forward to.

2 - Larger attendances

3 - Guaranteed 2 home games against Derry and Sligo

4 - Sponsorship would be a hell of alot easier obtained with the guarantee of TV coverage every week via mns.

5 - Because I say so.

[pineapple stu]

If UCD are going largely amateur, then theres no way they'll apply to be promoted to the Premier Division is there? They'd be cannonfodder.
Who said we're going largely amateur?

The Premier will be much worse next year (Bray for one seem to have lost a lot of their experienced players and are replacing them with young players), so we'll hold our own with bigger crowds. We're planning for the First obviously, but will take a Premier slot if it's offered to us.

Funny how we're often accused of having no ambition as a club, but then people expect us to lay down and be passed over by a "bigger" club.


Paying any creditor less than 100% what they are owed is gaining a sporting advantage on all other teams. It should be punished by demotion in my mind.
You weren't relegated when the FAI paid us for Alan Cawley so you didn't have to, were you? And you still haven't paid the FAI back for that either. Can you drop the sanctimonious self-righteousness now? It's getting tiresome. Drogheda will be punished appropriately.

[BohDiddley]

On second thoughts then, I hope Drogs stay up. I hope we're rid of UCD for good!!
If I have to go to Belfield to watch football in 2009, I'm going to hold you personally responsible!

[Réiteoir]

Who said we're going largely amateur?

The Premier will be much worse next year (Bray for one seem to have lost a lot of their experienced players and are replacing them with young players), so we'll hold our own with bigger crowds. We're planning for the First obviously, but will take a Premier slot if it's offered to us.

Funny how we're often accused of having no ambition as a club, but then people expect us to lay down and be passed over by a "bigger" club.


You weren't relegated when the FAI paid us for Alan Cawley so you didn't have to, were you? And you still haven't paid the FAI back for that either. Can you drop the sanctimonious self-righteousness now? It's getting tiresome. Drogheda will be punished appropriately.

don't mind higgins stu - he obviously got a nice shiny new copy of the board game "Agenda" for Chrimbo.

That and a knife sharpener...

[pineapple stu]

don't mind higgins stu
I know, don't worry. ;) Just the Cawley thing struck me when he was bleating on about how they paid all their debts and how the FAI never helped them.

[A face]

I know, don't worry. ;) Just the Cawley thing struck me when he was bleating on about how they paid all their debts and how the FAI never helped them.

Or maybe he thinks there should be one rule for Shels and another for the rest of us?

[bennocelt]

This is becoming a joke. In fact its well behond that. I can't help but worry that clubs will get out of all these problems due to huge work by supporters and clubs will take this for granted. Then 3-4 years down the line we will end up back in this god forsaken mess with clubs appealling to fans again only this time the fans will have had enough. And only too right.

Just like the Finn Harps fundraiser a few years ago - Jesus where did that mney go!!!

[cheech]

To clarify. €150,000 needed to give Harps a 'competitive' budget should the Premier place become available to them. Which is looking increasingly likely.

Harps biggest problem currently is that they don't have the funds to sign any proven players and will struggle even more this year than last.

Harps haven't broken any rules. All players have been paid and they are currently ranked 11th in the league. If Drogheda or anyone else is demoted, Harps will be in the Premier.

For those who don't like it. Tough. That is the rules. Shels fans should note that the making up of the rules as you go along finished for them the night they "won" their last league title.


Just like the Finn Harps fundraiser a few years ago - Jesus where did that mney go!!!

Uh? What are you on about? Seriously.

[garyderry]

To clarify. €150,000 needed to give Harps a 'competitive' budget should the Premier place become available to them. Which is looking increasingly likely.

Harps biggest problem currently is that they don't have the funds to sign any proven players and will struggle even more this year than last.

Harps haven't broken any rules. All players have been paid and they are currently ranked 11th in the league. If Drogheda or anyone else is demoted, Harps will be in the Premier.

For those who don't like it. Tough. That is the rules. Shels fans should note that the making up of the rules as you go along finished for them the night they "won" their last league title.



Uh? What are you on about? Seriously.

Thats good news, should definitely go to Harps over $hel$ if a place decomes available

[CSFShels]

Says the model club. Short memories.

If any of the forementioned clubs were to sort out their finances then why should they be denied a place in the Premier Division?

I wonder if Shels had of been promoted would you be singing off the same hymn sheet?
Shels were punished accordingly. And they should be denied their place, because of the means they had to take to sort those finances out. Ripping off creditors, fans and players every time a club spends outside its means is not the sign of a sustainable league.

[corkharps]

Shels were punished accordingly. And they should be denied their place, because of the means they had to take to sort those finances out. Ripping off creditors, fans and players every time a club spends outside its means is not the sign of a sustainable league.

Fair enough, Harps and Sligo both struggled but neither club ripped anybody off, unlike others presently and in the past, kettle!:mad:

[higgins]

You weren't relegated when the FAI paid us for Alan Cawley so you didn't have to, were you? And you still haven't paid the FAI back for that either. Can you drop the sanctimonious self-righteousness now? It's getting tiresome. Drogheda will be punished appropriately.


What part of my statement did you not understand ?

You can bring it back to Shels all you like and make up some opinion that I backed Shels all the way in every Ollie Byrne moment of madness but I didn't. Far from it...

I stand by what I said.

Also you are after saying Shels have not paid back the FAI.
Can you provide any proof on that ?

[higgins]

I know, don't worry. ;) Just the Cawley thing struck me when he was bleating on about how they paid all their debts and how the FAI never helped them.


You are acting the idiot now.
You know full well that nearly all clubs in the league have a debt to the FAI. Shels are like every other club in that we do owe the FAI money. The FAI worked like that for years. fines were added to your bill and prize money was taken off your account and not paid directly to the club. You know prize money was held back from shels in order to pay this debt.

Most clubs have a rolling debt with the FAI. In effect they are a creditor like many others. Hopefully soon the debt we have with the FAI will be next to nothing. Thankfully we've made big inroads into that debt over the last couple of years after having come to an agreement with them as a creditor of Shelbourne.

Stand by what I said... If clubs don't pay creditors off in full they should be demoted.

[Bald Student]

What part of my statement did you not understand ?At a guess I'd say it's the contradiction between your opinion now;


Paying any creditor less than 100% what they are owed is gaining a sporting advantage on all other teams. It should be punished by demotion in my mind.

and your opinion at the time when you weren't looking for Shels to be demoted.

[higgins]

Or maybe he thinks there should be one rule for Shels and another for the rest of us?


for the hard of learning like yourself A Face..
Shels did not wipe any debt off of their books.

We owe a lot of money but agreements are in place with everyone and we're paying them off as we go.

I'm sorry if this seems hard to understand to you. As a supporter of a team that took a couple of hundred thousand from the tax payers pockets to clear your teams tax bill and give you an advantage going into the 2009 season you probably wouldn't get it.

[higgins]

At a guess I'd say it's the contradiction between your opinion now;



and your opinion at the time when you weren't looking for Shels to be demoted.

But Shels didn't pay anyone less than 100% ?

Stu knows that,, he's just playing silly on here trying to twist things. As usual he's either not in posession of all the facts or he is trying to have a pop at Shels.

The season we were demoted Shels had come to agreements with all creditors to pay them back in full. That is the fact you all ignore...

These days it seems like it's a little game you all play were you have to have deals in place by Jan 31st and all will be ok :)

[Sam_Heggy]

Great development in Drogheda today, finally the players copped themselves on and accepted the money on offer.
How is the other issues looking? ie, Revenue, Examiner, creditors, etc.

Do Drogs fans feel confident of starting the season now?

[Celdrog]

Do Drogs fans feel confident of starting the season now?Not really, I didn't realise that Shelbourne made the rules.:rolleyes:

I'd say 50/50 max

[paudie]

Cork and Drogheda should be demoted for non payment of creditors. Paying any creditor less than 100% what they are owed is gaining a sporting advantage on all other teams. It should be punished by demotion in my mind.



City went into and out of examinership in a perfectly legal and above board matter. Our agreement with creditors was approved by a High Court judge.

No existing FAI rule as far as I know states that a club that successfully comes out of examinership should be penalised by demotion. If any club wants to change that rule for the future fair enough but backdating is not an option.

we may not get a licence for a number of reasons but we shouldn't be refused for using a perfectly legal procedure

[Black and White]

There is no other rule except a points deduction in the current season...however if you are in examinership come licensing time, then you may be demoted ie not awarded a premier licence!hence Droghedas plight at the moment...Cork's concern is siomething to do with outstanding wages owed to Matthews and players!This is a breach of FAI rules which could end up meaing them denying Cork a licence!

[higgins]

City went into and out of examinership in a perfectly legal and above board matter. Our agreement with creditors was approved by a High Court judge.


Of course as a business you are entitled to go into examinership and fair play for coming out of it too.

I already posted the words in my opinion but I'll just say it again. In my opinion you've gained a massive sporting advantage over other clubs both last season when you fielded a team you were not going to pay for and next season when you start off with a considerable amount of debt wiped off your books.

That in my opinion deserves a punishment of demotion.

And seen as you're talking about rules and what or what not you didnt break, do you remember the rules Shels broke that saw them demoted ?

[micls]

Of course as a business you are entitled to go into examinership and fair play for coming out of it too.

I already posted the words in my opinion but I'll just say it again. In my opinion you've gained a massive sporting advantage over other clubs both last season when you fielded a team you were not going to pay for and next season when you start off with a considerable amount of debt wiped off your books.

That in my opinion deserves a punishment of demotion.

And seen as you're talking about rules and what or what not you didnt break, do you remember the rules Shels broke that saw them demoted ?
Your opinion is irrelevant.

The shels situation is also irrelevant given that the league is under different control now.

There is no rule saying we should be demoted because of it therefore we shouldnt be demoted. You can't make up the rules after the event. had there been a rule in place stating examinership meant automatic demotion then I would have no complaints(and I wouldnt have a problem with such a rule being put in place) but there wasn't.

We have already received our punishment for entering examinership, whether it was harsh enough is debatable perhaps, but there is no reason for us to be punished twice for the same thing. Therefore we simply should not be demoted on this basis.

Now demoting us for other reasons is a different story....

[Student Mullet]

I'm reasonably sure that the licensing manual says that going into examinership is a breach of the license and can be punished by anything up to being put out of football.

[micls]

I'm reasonably sure that the licensing manual says that going into examinership is a breach of the license and can be punished by anything up to being put out of football.

You are right, a point I addressed when I said it's debatable whether the punishment was strong enough at the time. However having already received the punishment deemed appropriate I dont see any justification for further punishment.

What i was saying was there was no rule explicitly stating we should be demoted(rather than could be demoted).

[Celdrog]

I'm reasonably sure that the licensing manual says that going into examinership is a breach of the license and can be punished by anything up to being put out of football.Correct, it is up to the FAI to decide the punishment. In both cases they decided to dock Cork and Drogs 10 poins.
When licensing time comes around, then they can then demote, kick out, do what they want.

Its hilarious that Shels believe they are the moral guardians of the league and that the FAI should now be punishing clubs in advance.

[CSFShels]

You are right, a point I addressed when I said it's debatable whether the punishment was strong enough at the time. However having already received the punishment deemed appropriate I dont see any justification for further punishment.

What i was saying was there was no rule explicitly stating we should be demoted(rather than could be demoted).
Licencing isn't a punishment though. It is deciding what licence a club warrants. Given the circumstances, I find it difficult to believe Cork are deserving a Premier licence.

[Buile Shuibhne]

Correct, it is up to the FAI to decide the punishment. In both cases they decided to dock Cork and Drogs 10 poins.
When licensing time comes around, then they can then demote, kick out, do what they want.

Its hilarious that Shels believe they are the moral guardians of the league and that the FAI should now be punishing clubs in advance.


Some Shels fans have strong views on this.

Shels were demoted - and deservedly so at the time -by the FAI's First Instance Independent Licensing Committee in February 2007 - [had the FAI officially taken over the league at that stage coming into the 2007 season?]

Semantics about whether the FAI were running the league or not are irrelevant. The FAI have a history of helping out clubs - i.e. like when theybought into Drogs United Park previously.

Shels didn't have any debts written off or reduced. The FAI didn't offer any aid.

The Cawley transfer fee was the subject of a dispute prior to this.

Some Shels fans would like to see more consistency from the the FAI and their F.I.I.L.C..

[pineapple stu]

There was no dispute in the Cawley case. It was decided in court that Shels were wrong. They still refused to pay the fee, so the FAI paid instead. I'm not sure how that constitutes "the FAI didn't offer any aid".