Plusses over 2008 and looking ahead to 2009

[bwagner]

Right fellas discuss the pros of the last year for the boys in green at both club and International levels.

At club for me there have some good news :

Marc Wilson breaking through at Pomey in the last month has been great as we need as many premiership players as possible.

Gibson seems to be sneaking his way in at Man utd. (scoring his first goal yesterday)

Left back slot: Eddie Nolan has got a good chance now at Preston.
Sheehan playing well at Leeds.
Harte (dont laugh) back playing in the championship.

Centre back: St.Ledger playing very well all year (not just the Liverpool game)
Mc Shane revived at Hull.
O'Dea of to get match time at Burnley.
Coleman may be of to Brum.


Keane seems to be getting back to scoring ways thank god.
Doyle , the Hunts and Long all in good form at Reading.

Andrews and Tracey doing ok at Blackburn .

Whelan back in the team at Stoke.

Westwood playing well at Coventry.

Young MacCarthy is doing well up in Scotland.

Sheridan got a good run at Celtic.

The likes of O Toole ,S Quinn, Mc Cann and Garvin growing as players.

[Dr. Ogba]

interesting...just to bring you up on one thing though. I'm pretty sure Nolan is a right full / centre half by trade so don't think he's our answer to the current left back predicament unfortunately. Stephen Ward at Wolves could be though...

[Den Perry]

I agree with most of your points, but re Mcshane, are you having a laugh? Hull City's defence is brutal, and I would expect it to be nothing else with Mcshane involved. While he has great heart and bravery, he is just not up to top level football. I rfemember the hysteria his performance against Czech republic was greeted with and couldn't , for the life of me understand it...he lost Koller for the Czech goal...if thats good defending then....

His positional sense is very poor also. Just because he is regularly playing in the Prem for a team like Hull does not mean he is revived...(ps I'm off the fags so am probably a bit cranky)

[bwagner]

lol ok Den.

I forgot Foley and Ward at Wolves.

[Stuttgart88]

Plenty of potential positives alright but we've been here before with dozens of young players about to breakthrough and for one reason or another have failed to deliver.

[sligofan4ever]

Hopefully Keith Fahey does well at Birmingham, was probably the best player in the LOI until he left.

[irishultra]

ciaran do you put on a sinister smile when you type?

[The Fly]

Ciaran - Please explain how Gibson is a running joke at United.

He has only started to be introduced to United's first team this year. Whenever he has played it has been on the right wing, including against Southampton yesterday. This has to be taken into consideration when his performance has been rated. He took his goal well, with a good first touch and with calmness/poise. Don't rush to judgement on young players!

P.S - United fans are calling Gibson the evil Michael Carrick

[bwagner]

So for 2009 I would like to see Lawrence get back in Stoke then Ireland
Folan, Foley , Andrews ,N Hunt , Delaney and Mac Carthy get some game time in the Green shirt.

Any news on Friendly or B international games??? England have all there games fixed up already.

[eirebhoy]

I agree with most of your points, but re Mcshane, are you having a laugh? Hull City's defence is brutal, and I would expect it to be nothing else with Mcshane involved. While he has great heart and bravery, he is just not up to top level football. I rfemember the hysteria his performance against Czech republic was greeted with and couldn't , for the life of me understand it...he lost Koller for the Czech goal...if thats good defending then....

You seem to mention the Czech game every time McShane is mentioned. :) He was absolutely outstanding that day. One of the best Ireland debuts I've seen. Anyway, he's a centre half. I don't care if he's playing right back until he's 30 he'll always be a centre half and I don't rate him at right back. Everything about his game is made for a centre half and he lacks a lot of the requirements of a modern day full back.

[irishfan86]

You seem to mention the Czech game every time McShane is mentioned. :) He was absolutely outstanding that day. One of the best Ireland debuts I've seen. Anyway, he's a centre half. I don't care if he's playing right back until he's 30 he'll always be a centre half and I don't rate him at right back. Everything about his game is made for a centre half and he lacks a lot of the requirements of a modern day full back.

I've been with you every step of the way in this evaluation, but I've got to say in the FA Cup game against Newcastle at the weekend he was atrocious.

Okay, people may say that he was part of a back four that kept a clean sheet, but if I'm being honest it was in spite of him, not because of him.

At this moment in time I'd have him as 4th centre-half or so, and nowhere near full-back if we're talking about the national team.

[eirebhoy]

Did he not play right back against Newcastle?

[osarusan]

Gibson is a running joke at Man Utd, even when he scored yesterday he still rated lower than everyone else among the fans due to his inability to pass the ball.

How do you know?


I've never actually seen him play for United so that's their words not mine.

What makes it even better is that you said this in the St. Ledger thread :

I dont make rash judgements on players until I see them playing against the best.

[stiffler]

Are there any B games planned for this year??

These can be beneficial in the long term.

[richieos]

absolutely love osarusan's post.

[boovidge]

There's always one on every internet forum.

[carloz]

Gibson is a running joke at Man Utd, even when he scored yesterday he still rated lower than everyone else among the fans due to his inability to pass the ball.
FFS, should not rephrase this as 'Ciaran thinks Gibson is a riunning joke at man Utd'.
He is very highly thought of by both Ferguson and the coaching staff at Utd. He has been very impressive for the reserves and during his year in Belgium. Yes he didnt set the world alight at Wolves but he played a large number of games were played on the right wing. He got into a number of good positions against Southampton though his crossing was poor, again however, he is not a right winger. Man Utd fans hold him in quite high regard, with the exception of a few mongs who expect every young United player to be the new Keane. I fail to see what you expect from a youngster breaking into the United team, he is not going to grab every game he is in by the neck and control it.

[Den Perry]

You seem to mention the Czech game every time McShane is mentioned. :) He was absolutely outstanding that day. One of the best Ireland debuts I've seen. Anyway, he's a centre half. I don't care if he's playing right back until he's 30 he'll always be a centre half and I don't rate him at right back. Everything about his game is made for a centre half and he lacks a lot of the requirements of a modern day full back.

The reason I mention the Czech game is because its his performance in this game that led to all the hype and rave reviews....I will concede he played well BUT, he lost Koller for the goal. As a result, "outstanding" is a rather strong adjective to describe his performance. (I'm not trying to be argumentative....am still off the fags):mad:

[livehead1]

Who wants to put their neck on the line and say they believe Gibson will become a regular at Man Utd?

[bwagner]

I will ! he will start again against Derby. Giggs hints at retirement today, Scholes is not far behind him, Anderson and Nani are two duds. Carrick is either injured or not making any real effect in games. Ronaldo gone sooner or later. Fletcher...enough said.

[bwagner]

Mac Carthy just lands the young player of the month award in the SPL

[carloz]

I will ! he will start again against Derby. Giggs hints at retirement today, Scholes is not far behind him, Anderson and Nani are two duds. Carrick is either injured or not making any real effect in games. Ronaldo gone sooner or later. Fletcher...enough said.

Gotta disagree with you 100% on Anderson. He is certainly far from a dud and given some more time he will be one of the better Premiership midfielders. Personally i think Gibson will just be back up Carrick. Im far from a big fan of Carrick so i have my fingers crossed for the guy. As with any player he does need an element of luck to break into the team. Should Hargreaves ever get back to full fitness then i think Gibson will have his work cut out to get a game.

[The Fly]

I think that Gibson has a good chance of making it at United. United's central midfield is the weakest part of their set-up, relatively speaking. With Scholes now not taking part on a consistent basis, there is no other central midfield player of great world class ability. Carrick has developed into a very good player but will never reach any higher than that. Anderson to me would fall into a similar bracket. Fletcher and Hargreaves we know about. They don't present a daunting challenge for a young player like Gibson to aim to surpass.

I see Gibson as similar to Carrick but with a greater physical presence. In the absence of greatness to dislodge - he has a chance.

[co. down green]

I doubt he would still be at Utd if Ferguson didn't believe he had the potential to be part of his future plans, and to be fair to Gibson, he acknowledges that the right side of midfield isn't his strongest position.


"I played in the FA Cup last year when I was out on loan with Wolves, but this was my first time playing in the competition with Manchester United and it was totally different. It was the biggest game of my career to date,"

"I really enjoyed the experience, especially getting on the scoresheet and, If I'm to be totally honest, I could have scored a few more. I missed a few chances before I did find the net so it was a relief to finally get a goal. Wayne Rooney did really well to find me for our third goal.

"I must admit I'm buzzing at the minute," he enthused. "I've been working extremely hard in training and have been trying to improve on my finishing. I'm trying to get into the box a lot more often.

"Hopefully, if I start on Wednesday night against Derby I'll get an opportunity to score another goal. The manager seems to be keeping his faith in me and I intend to do everything I can to stay in his plans. He's told me that I'll definitely be involved in the game against Derby so I hope I can get on the scoresheet again and continue to make an impression.

"I'm getting a lot more chances this season and the longer we stay in the FA Cup - and if we can reach the Carling Cup Final - then the more chances of first team action I'm going to get. And as the season goes on I might even get more opportunities in the Premiership which is what I'm aiming towards," claimed the Derry man.

Having now rubbed shoulders with players of the quality of Dimitar Berbatov, Ryan Giggs and Wayne Rooney, Gibson believes he is continuing to develop as a player in the top flight of English football and is relishing the challenge.

"Playing with the likes of Rooney and Berbatov only makes you a better player," he maintains. "It's the first time I've played with Berbatov - he's different class.

He's a great player and he can find you with a pass from anywhere. It's definitely a lot easier playing alongside world class players.

"When I came on I started on the right side, I'm not sure why the manager wanted me to play there, but I'm just glad to be getting a chance to play and I'll play anywhere he wants me to. I would much prefer playing in the middle of the park but I'm certainly not going to complain if the manager chooses to play me, I'm just happy being involved."

[Irish_Praha]

I think that Gibson has a good chance of making it at United. United's central midfield is the weakest part of their set-up, relatively speaking. With Scholes now not taking part on a consistent basis, there is no other central midfield player of great world class ability. Carrick has developed into a very good player but will never reach any higher than that. Anderson to me would fall into a similar bracket. Fletcher and Hargreaves we know about. They don't present a daunting challenge for a young player like Gibson to aim to surpass.

I see Gibson as similar to Carrick but with a greater physical presence. In the absence of greatness to dislodge - he has a chance.

Totally agree with this but if the average football fan can see that CMF is the weakest area of ManU's squad then Fergie is well aware of it. A club like united has the funds to go out and buy a few very good and one or two top drawer players every season. So that might throw a spanner in the works for gibson. However, world-class CMF players don't grow on trees and he might just prove good enough to stave off current and any future competition. Fingers crossed he develops into a regular starter over the next few seasons.

[eirebhoy]

The reason I mention the Czech game is because its his performance in this game that led to all the hype and rave reviews....I will concede he played well BUT, he lost Koller for the goal. As a result, "outstanding" is a rather strong adjective to describe his performance. (I'm not trying to be argumentative....am still off the fags):mad:
I just have to keep strongly disagreeing about that Koller goal. The only thing McShane could have done was block the shot. He did everything else right by directing him away from goal. It's not often a defender is left one on one with the striker and it'll go down as a failure by the striker if he doesn't at least get a shot on goal in that situation. Shay Given wouldn't have let it in anyway.

[SilkCut]

Okay I am sticking my neck out here, but of the games I have seen Ireland play since Trap took over, the biggest pluses have to be Glenn Whelan and John O'Shea. Neither of them are great players, possibly not even good players but Trap is getting the best out of them. Whelan was excellent against both Georgia and Montenegro and O'shea actually looked like a footballer against them both too. Its such a shame Reid got injured again cos his partnership with Whelan looked very impressive.

[irishfan86]

To contribute to the Gibson conversation, all I have to say is that I don't think he'll make the grade at United.

He's playing well when given a chance, but he's playing on the wing, when he's never a winger in a million years.

If Fergie trusted him, he'd be playing in the centre.

Okay, Scholes may be retiring soon, but Carrick, Hargreaves, and Anderson are all much better players than him in my opinion, and they're all relatively young.

Add in the possibility (and probability) of quality central midfielders being purchased by United at some point, and he's really got a lot to do.

Gibson playing at right midfield reminds me of John O'Shea being used as a fullback.

Yeah, he can be an alright player in the position, but he'll never hit his potential there.

Anyone who's watched him play knows that he's built to play in the centre of the park, but I don't think it's going to happen at United sadly.

That said, I hope he proves me wrong and becomes a fantastic central midfielder at United.

[tetsujin1979]

Don Givens' review of 2008: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3920

[Razors left peg]

To contribute to the Gibson conversation, all I have to say is that I don't think he'll make the grade at United.

He's playing well when given a chance, but he's playing on the wing, when he's never a winger in a million years.

If Fergie trusted him, he'd be playing in the centre.

Okay, Scholes may be retiring soon, but Carrick, Hargreaves, and Anderson are all much better players than him in my opinion, and they're all relatively young.

Add in the possibility (and probability) of quality central midfielders being purchased by United at some point, and he's really got a lot to do.

Gibson playing at right midfield reminds me of John O'Shea being used as a fullback.

Yeah, he can be an alright player in the position, but he'll never hit his potential there.

Anyone who's watched him play knows that he's built to play in the centre of the park, but I don't think it's going to happen at United sadly.

That said, I hope he proves me wrong and becomes a fantastic central midfielder at United.


Its hard to know sometimes how young players will develop.How many people honestly would have predicted this time last year how good Steven Ireland has become.If this time next year Gibson has progressed half as well he wont be far off from being a first team regular, he has all the physical attributes to be a top player. Look at Carrick, he was a decent young player at West Ham and played with them in the Championship when they were relegated. At the time I would never have thought he would be as good as he is now

[The Fly]

Razor - I'm in complete agreement with you. People are far too quick to judge young players........cough.........Ciaran..........cough ........

P.S can some one tell how, click by click, to properly quote a post to which I would want to reply, so that the quote appears in that box above the said reply.
Thanks.

[kingdomkerry]

Go to their post and click the "Quote" button here -------------------------->

[ifk101]

Okay I am sticking my neck out here, but of the games I have seen Ireland play since Trap took over, the biggest pluses have to be Glenn Whelan and John O'Shea. Neither of them are great players, possibly not even good players but Trap is getting the best out of them. Whelan was excellent against both Georgia and Montenegro and O'shea actually looked like a footballer against them both too. Its such a shame Reid got injured again cos his partnership with Whelan looked very impressive.

Yes I agree about Josh. He hasn't been outstanding my any means but he has raised the overall standard of his game for us - and his performances under Trapattoni has been consistently good.

Whelan deserves a mention because he is new to the step-up and is performing an important role for the team well.

But I'd single out Kevin Doyle as one of our best if not our best international in 2008.

[SilkCut]

Forgot to include Noel Hunt in my earlier post, I know it hasnt affected the international side yet, but surely the fact he is playing so impressively in the championship gives us another good option up front. Biggest let down must be Stokes, what the hell has happened to him?? Surely he is still better than championship standard, I wonder does he actually want to be as good as he can be.

[irishfan86]

Forgot to include Noel Hunt in my earlier post, I know it hasnt affected the international side yet, but surely the fact he is playing so impressively in the championship gives us another good option up front. Biggest let down must be Stokes, what the hell has happened to him?? Surely he is still better than championship standard, I wonder does he actually want to be as good as he can be.

Ever since I talked to an ex-Arsenal youth teammate of his, I've had doubts.

He explained to me that a lot of Stokes' dominance when he was younger was due to the fact that he was stronger and bigger than most kids his age.

If you look at the SPL, the players there are smaller and less athletic on average.

The big, strong players there can really dominate.

Look at Samaras. Pretty ineffectual for Man City, but he's been effective and dominant for Celtic when he's got a good run of games.

Midgets like Willo Flood, Shaun Maloney, etc. can excel in the SPL, but were stifled by the athleticism found in the top tiers of English football.

Stokes is still young, and he's still got a lot of talent, but this conversation worried me a bit.

Maybe he just needs to get used to competing against strong athletic players, and perhaps bulk up a bit in order to do so.

Hopefully in a couple of years he will develop more consistency and start finding the net for a decent side, and eventually, the national team.