Sean St Ledger

[Jicked]

I've seen both play a few times, St Ledger looks quite good. I'm not denying that, but he's potentially Preston's player of the year, not Barcelona's. Trap likes what Bruce offers, I'd trust Trap to be a pretty good judge of player at this stage of his career. There were people saying Whelan/Gibson/Andrews were Premiership rejects and so shouldn't be anywhere near an Irish XI, yet now two are established as first team players and the other is a real squad player now at Man United.
There aren't light years in the difference between the two players, they both play at the same level. Those thinking St Ledger's exclusion is a disgrace are probably the first who would turn on him, ala McShane or someone like that, as not being up to it if he was thrown in to a few big games and started making mistakes.

[Rovers Maniac]

I've seen both play a few times, St Ledger looks quite good. I'm not denying that, but he's potentially Preston's player of the year, not Barcelona's. Trap likes what Bruce offers, I'd trust Trap to be a pretty good judge of player at this stage of his career. There were people saying Whelan/Gibson/Andrews were Premiership rejects and so shouldn't be anywhere near an Irish XI, yet now two are established as first team players and the other is a real squad player now at Man United.
There aren't light years in the difference between the two players, they both play at the same level. Those thinking St Ledger's exclusion is a disgrace are probably the first who would turn on him, ala McShane or someone like that, as not being up to it if he was thrown in to a few big games and started making mistakes.

This guy will be in the premier one way or the other next season, i heard he was class on saturday.

[Stuttgart88]

I heard he was great on Saturday too. Bruce can play right back which might well be why he just shades it - though the Don's infuence may be a malign feature at work here. As a CB I think St. Ledger is probably quite a bit ahead of Bruce.

[the doc]

I heard he was great on Saturday too. Bruce can play right back which might well be why he just shades it - though the Don's infuence may be a malign feature at work here. As a CB I think St. Ledger is probably quite a bit ahead of Bruce.

St Ledger has played at right back for Preston on a number of occassions too, and has also played right wing back, sweeper and defensive midfield so far in his career.

[the doc]

I've seen both play a few times, St Ledger looks quite good. I'm not denying that, but he's potentially Preston's player of the year, not Barcelona's. Trap likes what Bruce offers, I'd trust Trap to be a pretty good judge of player at this stage of his career. There were people saying Whelan/Gibson/Andrews were Premiership rejects and so shouldn't be anywhere near an Irish XI, yet now two are established as first team players and the other is a real squad player now at Man United.
There aren't light years in the difference between the two players, they both play at the same level. Those thinking St Ledger's exclusion is a disgrace are probably the first who would turn on him, ala McShane or someone like that, as not being up to it if he was thrown in to a few big games and started making mistakes.

Really! Well one is good on the ball, good in the air, reads the game well and has good pace, whilst the other one has a famous Dad!

[third policeman]

Really! Well one is good on the ball, good in the air, reads the game well and has good pace, whilst the other one has a famous Dad!


A "famous Dad" who got rid of him at Birmingham.

[the doc]

A "famous Dad" who got rid of him at Birmingham.

Because he was going to sign St Ledger who he rated as a better player with more potential.

[DeLorean]

There were people saying Whelan/Gibson/Andrews were Premiership rejects and so shouldn't be anywhere near an Irish XI, yet now two are established as first team players and the other is a real squad player now at Man United.

I think most of these people u speak of would still have a different pairing in midfield than Whelan/Gibson so I'm not sure too much has changed in that regard, other than Whelan getting a few starts due to Diao's injury. You're being very generous to Gibson calling him a real squad player i think. I'd consider a real squad player to be somebody who gets some kind of a run in most games and starts here and there. He'll play one game at the most between now and the end of the season I'd imagine and has only one substitute appearance to his name in the PL this season.


There aren't light years in the difference between the two players, they both play at the same level. Those thinking St Ledger's exclusion is a disgrace are probably the first who would turn on him, ala McShane or someone like that, as not being up to it if he was thrown in to a few big games and started making mistakes.

You sound like somebody that's just winging this one. I haven't seen much of St Ledger myself so I'm uncertain as to his promise. I have seen some of Bruce and he looks all kinds of ordinary if I'm being nice. Saying that they are both playing at the same level is neither here nor there, by that logic Ronaldo and Kuyt aren't light-years apart either.

I think you just take things a bit personally when somebody questions da Trapp.

[Den Perry]

I don't think it's likely. St. Ledger has talked openly about his desire to represent Ireland.

I think Nolan is being fast-tracked into the squad because our full-backs are having injury problems (Finnan has hardly played, McShane pulled his hamstring, Kelly just back from injury).

To call St. Ledger up (clearly a centre-half) to remedy a shortage at full-back wouldn't make sense.

That said, St. Ledger should definitely be ahead of Bruce in the pecking order, and thus should be in the squad.

was St Ledger not also playing fullback at the Posh?

[Jicked]

I think most of these people u speak of would still have a different pairing in midfield than Whelan/Gibson so I'm not sure too much has changed in that regard, other than Whelan getting a few starts due to Diao's injury. You're being very generous to Gibson calling him a real squad player i think. I'd consider a real squad player to be somebody who gets some kind of a run in most games and starts here and there. He'll play one game at the most between now and the end of the season I'd imagine and has only one substitute appearance to his name in the PL this season.



You sound like somebody that's just winging this one. I haven't seen much of St Ledger myself so I'm uncertain as to his promise. I have seen some of Bruce and he looks all kinds of ordinary if I'm being nice. Saying that they are both playing at the same level is neither here nor there, by that logic Ronaldo and Kuyt aren't light-years apart either.

I think you just take things a bit personally when somebody questions da Trapp.

I'm not saying I've seen a lot of Bruce, or Ledger for that matter. But then again, these people panning Bruce as being nothing but the son of his famous Dad...how many Ipswich games have they seen? They base their opinions off snippets of games every few weeks, a few newspaper reports and a couple of posts on an internet forum. People see St Ledger getting a good on you from Chris Kamara or whoever it is and suddenly he can read the game brilliantly etc. etc. I'm not knocking the bloke, I hope he is a great player for us, but I highly doubt he'll be the second coming, just as I doubt Bruce will be. Considering Trapattoni has seen both player far more than most of us on here, has far more experience at watching players, and has a better idea at to what a side in our position needs, I'd be willing to trust him over a few barstoolers who read a good write up he got a couple of weeks ago. The fact that Trap made Bruce captain of the B side (iirc) and went as far to talk about him moving to Italy when his contract expired suggests he likes the cut of his jib. And to be honest I think that should take priority over a keyboard fanatic who saw St Ledger put in a great block in a Carling Cup game on Sky...

[the doc]

The fact that Trap made Bruce captain of the B side (iirc) and went as far to talk about him moving to Italy when his contract expired suggests he likes the cut of his jib.

Thats whats so worrying about Trapp! I think long term, this bloke will do more damage than good as he has no forward thinking plans for us.

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!

[irishfan86]

Thats whats so worrying about Trapp! I think long term, this bloke will do more damage than good as he has no forward thinking plans for us.

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!

He's the first manager to put O'Shea in the middle regularly, and it has been successful.

He's also brought in Whelan who has performed well for us in the middle of the park.

McGeady is still a young player who he is keeping faith with as well, and of course he has given Gibson opportunities to develop.

He seems to like Keogh and Long as well, and has given them playing opportunities (and they did well with a small amount of playing time).

He is making some questionable squad decisions, but his team selection is very close to what most people would pick, and this is most important.

Just because he's not giving certain young players a chance, doesn't mean he's not giving young players a chance.

To say he is sabotaging our long-term hopes is unfair and inaccurate.

[ifk101]

Thats whats so worrying about Trapp!

The only topics you are interested in posting about is linked to St Ledger and other Preston related drivel.

I wonder who the "us":rolleyes: are when you write


.... this bloke will do more damage than good as he has no forward thinking plans for us.

[the doc]

He's the first manager to put O'Shea in the middle regularly, and it has been successful.

He's also brought in Whelan who has performed well for us in the middle of the park.

McGeady is still a young player who he is keeping faith with as well, and of course he has given Gibson opportunities to develop.

He seems to like Keogh and Long as well, and has given them playing opportunities (and they did well with a small amount of playing time).

He is making some questionable squad decisions, but his team selection is very close to what most people would pick, and this is most important.

Just because he's not giving certain young players a chance, doesn't mean he's not giving young players a chance.

To say he is sabotaging our long-term hopes is unfair and inaccurate.

Time will tell! He is only using players in and around the squad, regardless of their form or if they are playing regular 1st team football.

Most of the starting 11, pick it's self, we could all do that but where is the quality after that?

This will be a false dawn regardless of World Cup qualification, mark my words.

Trapp, Givens and Brady OUT!

[Stuttgart88]

Time will tell! He is only using players in and around the squad, regardless of their form or if they are playing regular 1st team football.

Most of the starting 11, pick it's self, we could all do that but where is the quality after that?

This will be a false dawn regardless of World Cup qualification, mark my words.

Trapp, Givens and Brady OUT!I see what you're getting at but given that the first XI picks itself, what more can really be done? By the time WC 2010 is over - with us having been there hopefully - a natural changeover will take place. The "quality after that" you're looking for will probably emerge naturally. For example, I can see a time coming where Foley will be make RB his own just on the strength of his performances at club level.

I personally think some in the squad (Miller, Bruce...) are lucky to be there and others like St. Ledger should be there but most of where I'd disagree with Trap are marginal decisions, Andy Reid excepted.

You can make a case for Garvan, Walters, Tabb and others but they're all marginal. My gripe is that there's an apparent lack of imagination, but then again, picking Gibson & Andrews is hardly conservative management. Therte are only so many chances one can take.

If Trap's system works then great. We've got to start achieving again. You don't get points for artistic merit or for imaginative squad selection.

[the doc]

I see what you're getting at but given that the first XI picks itself, what more can really be done? By the time WC 2010 is over - with us having been there hopefully - a natural changeover will take place. The "quality after that" you're looking for will probably emerge naturally. For example, I can see a time coming where Foley will be make RB his own just on the strength of his performances at club level.

I personally think some in the squad (Miller, Bruce...) are lucky to be there and others like St. Ledger should be there but most of where I'd disagree with Trap are marginal decisions, Andy Reid excepted.

You can make a case for Garvan, Walters, Tabb and others but they're all marginal. My gripe is that there's an apparent lack of imagination, but then again, picking Gibson & Andrews is hardly conservative management. Therte are only so many chances one can take.

If Trap's system works then great. We've got to start achieving again. You don't get points for artistic merit or for imaginative squad selection.

Thats a fair assessment, but what does that say to up and coming players who are playing well and getting regular 1st team football.

We aren't even giving the likes of St Ledger a chance in the "B" games, Trapp going with Bruce and other squad players so what good is that?

The policy is all wrong, I could live with some of his decisions if there was a good back up structure, but there isn't.

It looks as though we could lose St Ledger to the North, through all this, surely this is wrong when we could of at least given him a game at some stage.

[Jicked]

My god, if the_doc is really an Irish fan, though I get the impression he's just a Preston fan, then we have plummeted to new depths.

[the doc]

My god, if the_doc is really an Irish fan, though I get the impression he's just a Preston fan, then we have plummeted to new depths.

Get a life! I'm a Preston and Ireland fan, whats wrong with that? Not all of us Irish are glory hunters supporting the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool.

[Hibs4Ever]

It looks as though we could lose St Ledger to the North



Fair enough so. If he'd rather play for NI than wait a bit longer then he obviously doesn't want to play for us as much as you claim he does

[Hibs4Ever]

Not all of us Irish are glory hunters


You're right, some of us support our own league

[Jicked]

Get a life! I'm a Preston and Ireland fan, whats wrong with that? Not all of us Irish are glory hunters supporting the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool.

I'm a Shamrock Rovers fan.
And if you're talking about sacking Trapattoni because he chooses Alex Bruce of Ipswich, instead of St Ledger of Preston, to be fourth choice centre back then you're not an Irish fan.

[the doc]

I'm a Shamrock Rovers fan.
And if you're talking about sacking Trapattoni because he chooses Alex Bruce of Ipswich, instead of St Ledger of Preston, to be fourth choice centre back then you're not an Irish fan.

St Ledger would be 1st choice alongside Dunne, given a chance and few games.

[third policeman]

Actually its because I'm an Irish fan that I want our manager to pick the best players not stick with deadbeat mediocrities who will lose us vital games if we ever have to pick them. I dont think this is a fine judgement issue between Bruce and St Ledger, the latter is a conspicuously and vastly more talented player. The worry is that our management either cannot see it, or simply dont want to admit that their inexplicable selection of Bruce and McShane was based on shameful ignorance or laziness.

[Jicked]

Are you eleven years old, or do you just know nothing about football?

John O'Shea, Champions League winner, Premier League veteran, 50 times capped by Ireland and possibly our best player so far in this competition, dropped for uncapped twenty four year old who has played in the Championship and League One.

IF St Ledger ever makes a squad he will take Bruce's place, fourth choice behind the Premier League and International experience of Dunne, O'Shea and McShane (who despite being far from perfect, will always be chosen ahead of an inexperienced championship player like St Ledger...and let's not forget that McShane looked a quality defender in the Championship too)

[Jicked]

Actually its because I'm an Irish fan that I want our manager to pick the best players not stick with deadbeat mediocrities who will lose us vital games if we ever have to pick them. I dont think this is a fine judgement issue between Bruce and St Ledger, the latter is a conspicuously and vastly more talented player. The worry is that our management either cannot see it, or simply dont want to admit that their inexplicable selection of Bruce and McShane was based on shameful ignorance or laziness.

First of all calm down, we're discussing fourth choice centre back. What do you mean by ignorance and laziness?
How many times have you seen Bruce play? How many times have you seen St Ledger play? Are you basing your opinion on third parties?


If McShane was playing for Preston he'd be doing quite well, and have the idiot internet masses demanding he starts.

[livehead1]

If McShane was playing for Preston he'd be doing quite well, and have the idiot internet masses demanding he starts.

Thats quite a harsh and poorly thought out comment. If we had any player performing well for a club side in the top two divisions then it would be more than justifiable for someone to make out an argument that he should start for our national side.

[the doc]

Are you eleven years old, or do you just know nothing about football?

John O'Shea, Champions League winner, Premier League veteran, 50 times capped by Ireland and possibly our best player so far in this competition, dropped for uncapped twenty four year old who has played in the Championship and League One.

IF St Ledger ever makes a squad he will take Bruce's place, fourth choice behind the Premier League and International experience of Dunne, O'Shea and McShane (who despite being far from perfect, will always be chosen ahead of an inexperienced championship player like St Ledger...and let's not forget that McShane looked a quality defender in the Championship too)

He looked far from that, uncomfortable on the ball, rash challenges, out of position, playing his team mates into trouble.

It was only his "up and at em" style of play that got many of the fans overlooking what experienced people in the game could see.

WBA, couldn't wait to off load him to Sunderland who too have realised how poor he is.

[eirebhoy]

He looked far from that, uncomfortable on the ball, rash challenges, out of position, playing his team mates into trouble.

Yet he won player of the year and motm, after motm, after motm. I read most of the Brighton match reports and he was a messiah for them. Fair enough Brighton are a poor team and Adam Virgo was excellent for them but there's the Brighton fans certainly rated him very highly.

He's been playing right back pretty much ever since. Probably 10 games at centre half in that time.

[SkStu]

First of all calm down, we're discussing fourth choice centre back. What do you mean by ignorance and laziness?
How many times have you seen Bruce play? How many times have you seen St Ledger play? Are you basing your opinion on third parties?


If McShane was playing for Preston he'd be doing quite well, and have the idiot internet masses demanding he starts.

whats the difference between the bolded statement and any other statement made so far - just as opinionated, just as difficult to prove and just as ridiculous.

[eirebhoy]

Yeh I don't think a player must be playing in the premiership for us to judge him. But I think McShane is a centre half, not a right back in a million years, and because of his inexperience in that position he needs to be playing beside a decent organiser.

And by the way, a decent organiser could sort out his poor positioning and lack of pace in one go. If that happens you've a great little player imo.

[as_i_say]

Yeh I don't think a player must be playing in the premiership for us to judge him. But I think McShane is a centre half, not a right back in a million years, and because of his inexperience in that position he needs to be playing beside a decent organiser.

And by the way, a decent organiser could sort out his poor positioning and lack of pace in one go. If that happens you've a great little player imo.

Having said all that though about him being a cb and not rb, would you be happy for him to be playing cb for us now say if josh got injured? Reckon it would be a bit of a disaster, and thats coming from someone who has routinely criticized josh in the past. I can't really see mchane ever having an ireland future at cb, he's just so dodgy.

[Closed Account]

The problem is, as I see it, is that there are a limited number of places in the squad. Alex Bruce was named in a B international friendly against Nottingham Forest, was named captain presumably based on his performance and presence at training.

He has since retained his place in the Senior squad. Until he is injured or has a bad game for us he shouldn't be dropped. Also until any of the other centre back options are unavailable for the senior squad, clamouring for anothers inclusion is pointless.

The problem all stems from the naming of that B squad which named Bruce, O'Dea and McCarthy in the squad, this squad was chosen by Givens and other scouts. St Ledger will get his chance eventually.

[eirebhoy]

Having said all that though about him being a cb and not rb, would you be happy for him to be playing cb for us now say if josh got injured? Reckon it would be a bit of a disaster, and thats coming from someone who has routinely criticized josh in the past. I can't really see mchane ever having an ireland future at cb, he's just so dodgy.
To be honest I'd actually rather have McShane centre back, O'Shea left back and Finnan right. I think that's our best defence. I still definitely rate McShane at centre half with the right guy. As good as O'Shea has been under Trap he hasn't been error prone either. People say don't break up the centre of defence but if it means McShane is playing at right back I certainly would.

[as_i_say]

To be honest I'd actually rather have McShane centre back, O'Shea left back and Finnan right. I think that's our best defence. I still definitely rate McShane at centre half with the right guy. As good as O'Shea has been under Trap he hasn't been error prone either. People say don't break up the centre of defence but if it means McShane is playing at right back I certainly would.

I really think O Shea has been absolutely dreadful for us at left back and in any other position except for center back for that matter. He is benefiting now from his partnership with Dunne and even though hes not playing CB at ManU, he's surrounded by quality and it has always been essential for him. I reckon if he ever left united he could find himself becoming the forgotten man.

St Ledger deserves a call up on form. McShane reminds me of Alan Kernaghan, you worry any time he gets the ball. I wouldnt have him near cb for us to be honest! He's had a decent season at right back but doesnt offer much in attack.

[Jicked]

whats the difference between the bolded statement and any other statement made so far - just as opinionated, just as difficult to prove and just as ridiculous.

McShane proved himself a good Championship player in his years at WBA and Brighton.
While he was at Hull this season he's been okay.
And so if he dropped down a division he'd probably return to his better form, that's his level. He's a Championship player.
What about the above is ridiculous?

[FarBeag]

McShane proved himself a good Championship player in his years at WBA and Brighton.
While he was at Hull this season he's been okay.
And so if he dropped down a division he'd probably return to his better form, that's his level. He's a Championship player.
What about the above is ridiculous?


He was an ok player in the championship and he played most of his football at right back with West Brom. St Ledger is good player and plays in the centre. He is by far a better player than McShane or Bruce for that matter.

[Jicked]

He was an ok player in the championship and he played most of his football at right back with West Brom. St Ledger is good player and plays in the centre. He is by far a better player than McShane or Bruce for that matter.
Ok I'll ask again, how many games have you seen St Ledger play, and how many have you seen Bruce play?

[backstothewall]

McShane is not a premier league centre half. He is too slow, too short, and too likely to switch off. Perhaps he can play full back as he seemed to do well for Hull on loan in that position at that level, but theat is as much as we can expect from him.

Bruce is not up to Premiership standard. Thats not my opinion, its Steve Bruce's. And if anyone in the world was going to give him a fair crack of the whip it was his dad.

St Ledger i have hardly seen play, but from what i remember of him in the dressing room in that thing Sky 1 did a year or so back when he was at Peterborough, he is a disruptive influence.

We would be far better off getting both O' Briens from Bolton back in the picture

[irishfan86]

To be honest I'd actually rather have McShane centre back, O'Shea left back and Finnan right. I think that's our best defence. I still definitely rate McShane at centre half with the right guy. As good as O'Shea has been under Trap he hasn't been error prone either. People say don't break up the centre of defence but if it means McShane is playing at right back I certainly would.

We have good options at full-back.

McShane needs to go somewhere where he is played as a centre-half.

Until that happens, for me he should be nothing more than our 3rd or 4th centre-half.

O'Shea in my view is a natural centre-half who has been playing as a fullback (much like McShane at times).

The only difference is that O'Shea is far more talented technically, and has a far better physique for the position.

No way in hell would I move O'Shea to accomodate McShane.

Bring in Foley, Finnan, a fit Stephen Kelly, Nolan, or even Wilson at Pompey.

But don't put McShane on the field when Dunne and O'Shea are fit.

Even then I'd love to experiment with St. Ledger in a friendly.

McShane just scares the **** out of me.

[FarBeag]

Ok I'll ask again, how many games have you seen St Ledger play, and how many have you seen Bruce play?


Look I do not comment on a player I have not seen play.I don’t support any English teams but I watch TV and attend as many games as I can when Irish players are involved. I have followed Bruce’s career since he declared for Ireland and the same with St Ledger who has declared some time before Bruce's Irishness kicked in. I am a reasonable judge of a footballer’s ability and St Ledger is a better player than Bruce regardless of what Trap or you think.

I also think that Foley should have played instead of Kelly tonight again based on following each ones career.

[Jicked]

Look I do not comment on a player I have not seen play.I don’t support any English teams but I watch TV and attend as many games as I can when Irish players are involved. I have followed Bruce’s career since he declared for Ireland and the same with St Ledger who has declared some time before Bruce's Irishness kicked in. I am a reasonable judge of a footballer’s ability and St Ledger is a better player than Bruce regardless of what Trap or you think.

I also think that Foley should have played instead of Kelly tonight again based on following each ones career.

My God, you're a footballing genius!

Again I ask; how many times have you seen St Ledger play? Let's see, Preston played Liverpool in the Cup this year, you might have seen one of his goals if you were arsed getting up early to catch highlights on Sky, and maybe Peterborough had a Carling Cup tie televised once upon a time. And to think Trapatoni still wont pick him after you've done your homework. Stick to the Football Manager mate

[irishfan86]

My God, you're a footballing genius!

Again I ask; how many times have you seen St Ledger play? Let's see, Preston played Liverpool in the Cup this year, you might have seen one of his goals if you were arsed getting up early to catch highlights on Sky, and maybe Peterborough had a Carling Cup tie televised once upon a time. And to think Trapatoni still wont pick him after you've done your homework. Stick to the Football Manager mate

I think they've been on TV around 4 times. I've watched those games.

St. Ledger has been solid in all of those matches. Not really spectacular, but solid.

I have seen Bruce play a couple of times for Ipswich this year and his cameo in the Poland game.

St. Ledger is better technically from the little I've seen. Bruce looks nervous on the ball, and reminds me a bit of McShane generally.

What I will say is that Bruce looks very dangerous in the air everytime I see him play, particularly off set pieces.

Based on the little I've seen, I'd go with St. Ledger in a friendly or something to at least see what he can do.

I'm not advocating that we bring him in, and that he's undroppable, I just want Trap to have a look at him in training and perhaps in a friendly and then make his evaluation of whether or not he's good enough.

[FarBeag]

My God, you're a footballing genius!

Again I ask; how many times have you seen St Ledger play? Let's see, Preston played Liverpool in the Cup this year, you might have seen one of his goals if you were arsed getting up early to catch highlights on Sky, and maybe Peterborough had a Carling Cup tie televised once upon a time. And to think Trapatoni still wont pick him after you've done your homework. Stick to the Football Manager mate



Ok Mr know it all. How did you guess i have only seen him play twice? Are you spying on me? Yeah your right he did play a good game against the pool and the one game I saw him play at Peterborough he actually scored a goal. Maybe we could put him up front beside Doyle!

Do you even know where Preston is? And BTW how many times have you managed to push the button on the remote to see him play?

[Jicked]

I think they've been on TV around 4 times. I've watched those games.

St. Ledger has been solid in all of those matches. Not really spectacular, but solid.

I have seen Bruce play a couple of times for Ipswich this year and his cameo in the Poland game.

St. Ledger is better technically from the little I've seen. Bruce looks nervous on the ball, and reminds me a bit of McShane generally.

What I will say is that Bruce looks very dangerous in the air everytime I see him play, particularly off set pieces.

Based on the little I've seen, I'd go with St. Ledger in a friendly or something to at least see what he can do.

I'm not advocating that we bring him in, and that he's undroppable, I just want Trap to have a look at him in training and perhaps in a friendly and then make his evaluation of whether or not he's good enough.

Bingo. You've seen a little of him, and the snippets you've seen suggests he should get a chance. He will, but right now Trap wants to take a look at Bruce. And why shouldn't he? Let's not forget that Trapattoni gets to work with Bruce on the training ground for a week, and has seen a lot more of him then you or I have. Is it really that hard to believe that he sees something in Bruce that suggests he's a decent fourth choice CB? What little he's seen of Bruce in training and for the B side has impressed Trapattoni, and to be blunt, he knows his ****.
Trap went to see St Ledger play a few weeks ago so he's obviously keeping an eye on him and I'm sure he will select him over the next year at some stage. But saying that Trap doesn't know what he's doing, or that its a disgrace that Alex Bruce gets to be fourth choice CB instead of Sean St Ledger, based on seeing him play (on TV) 3 or 4 times, is a little bit ridiculous.

[irishfan86]

I never said that Trap doesn't know what he's doing. I just think he should be brought into a squad to have a closer look.

Trap seems to put a lot of emphasis on making his selections based on what he sees in training, moreso than a player's club form, so bring the lad in and have a look at him.

[eirebhoy]

McShane is not a premier league centre half. He is too slow, too short, and too likely to switch off. Perhaps he can play full back as he seemed to do well for Hull on loan in that position at that level, but theat is as much as we can expect from him.
Couldn't disagree more. He's definitely slow but many centre halves are. Too short? He's been motm against Koller, Davies, Berbatov, Santa Cruz and seems to dominate in the air against any target man. And I think he's constantly switched on (maybe too much ie. hyper) but he does often look a bit brainless with his positioning, movement and general style of play.

As for full back. Pace is certainly more important in that position. As is distribution. He's just not a full back.

He's been very successful at centre half in his career so far. Pity we don't see him there more often. Only for the injury that gave O'Shea his chance in that position he'd probably be playing there for us today but I'm certainly not complaining atm.

[the doc]

My God, you're a footballing genius!

Again I ask; how many times have you seen St Ledger play? Let's see, Preston played Liverpool in the Cup this year, you might have seen one of his goals if you were arsed getting up early to catch highlights on Sky, and maybe Peterborough had a Carling Cup tie televised once upon a time. And to think Trapatoni still wont pick him after you've done your homework. Stick to the Football Manager mate

Heres a few clips, of St Ledger playing for PNE click on 2.50, 5.50 and 7.20 for clips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nF2XtaJ4N0

[backstothewall]

Couldn't disagree more. He's definitely slow but many centre halves are. Too short? He's been motm against Koller, Davies, Berbatov, Santa Cruz and seems to dominate in the air against any target man. And I think he's constantly switched on (maybe too much ie. hyper) but he does often look a bit brainless with his positioning, movement and general style of play.

As for full back. Pace is certainly more important in that position. As is distribution. He's just not a full back.

He's been very successful at centre half in his career so far. Pity we don't see him there more often. Only for the injury that gave O'Shea his chance in that position he'd probably be playing there for us today but I'm certainly not complaining atm.

Can't agree.

I can't remember McShane putting in a motm performance in any game. I remember a decent performance against the Czech Republic, but even then iirc correctly he was pushed off the ball easily for their goal. And Koller has never been the threat in the air his height would suggest

What i also remember is Everton 7-1 Sunderland when he put in a Bambi on ice performance. He is an accident waiting to happen, from the Titus Bramble school of defending. I am terrified every time he goes near the ball

I agree pace is important for a full back, though you can get away without it - Gary Neville or Denis Irwin were never the quickest. The reason i suggested he might have a future at full back is because he can do a bit less damage out there than in the middle. He will never be overlapping on the wing and getting crosses in, but at least he might get the chance to learn to defend.

Of all his failings at least positioning and reading the game can be learned, though he would need to get a shift on

[eirebhoy]

He was immense against the Czechs. I think I'll have to put together a montage of that one because I have to repeat it so much. ;)

[tetsujin1979]

The reason i suggested he might have a future at full back is because he can do a bit less damage out there than in the middle.Then why not just drop him altogether? He can do no damage at all then!
BTW, I don't want to see him dropped, but right now I don't think he's going to be anything more than back up at centre half for the foreseeable future