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Paddyfield
23/11/2008, 9:15 PM
From the Sunday Business Post

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS+FEATURES-qqqm=nav-qqqid=37686-qqqx=1.asp

Eircom League looks to the future
Sunday, November 23, 2008
Despite the downturn, the director of the League of Ireland believes that clubs are in a good position for the future, writes Dermot Corrigan.

Bohemians and Derry City take to the field at the RDS in Dublin today for the showpiece event of the Eircom League of Ireland calendar, the FAI Ford Cup final.

Bohemians enter the game as favourites, having easily secured the league title in an eventful season. In sporting terms, 2008 will be remembered as the year that Drogheda United almost toppled Dynamo Kiev in the Champions League, while Dundalk returned to the top division after securing promotion with the very last kick of the season.





However, this year will also be remembered for less positive reasons. Two clubs - last season’s champions Drogheda United and 2005 title winners Cork City - have gone into examinership in recent months, each with debts of about €750,000. More than half of the league’s clubs have been unable to pay their players in full or on time.

According to Fran Gavin, director of the League of Ireland, the problems faced by the clubs are not due to bad management, but are a very public example of how the downturn is affecting everyone in Irish society.

‘‘On the pitch, this has been a very good season,” said Gavin. ‘‘It has been one of the best ever years in Europe. Bohemians won the league in a record-breaking manner and the standard of play has been very high.

‘‘Off the pitch, it was not a good year for the league, but wage difficulties are not unique to the League of Ireland. Everybody running a business in Ireland today is seeing financial difficulties. Ours get highlighted on the back pages of newspapers, and the issues around Drogheda and Cork City have been well-documented.”

The ‘‘issues’’ have included Drogheda players threatening strike action after the club’s plan to sell its ground and move to a new €35 million, 10,000-seater stadium ran into planning difficulties. Cork’s problems arose after the club’s former owner - venture capital group Arkaga - withdrew its backing midway through the season.

Galway United was forced to sell key players in mid-season and imposed pay reductions on the players who remained.

Bohemians’ league win has also been overshadowed by a High Court case between the club and property developers over its relocation plans. Bohemian’s Dalymount Park site, in Phibsboro in Dublin, was valued at €60 million at the height of the property boom, but is now worth a lot less.

Gavin said that some clubs, like many other parts of Irish society, were over-reliant on the property and construction sectors. ‘‘The difficulties span not only the deals that were done with developers, but there were also sponsorship deals with developers and property companies,” he said.

‘‘Some clubs have then had difficulty receiving the sponsorship that was agreed. That was clearly due to the downturn in the economy, particularly in the building trade.”

However, many clubs faced difficulties even before the property bubble burst or the credit crunch hit. The 2005 Genesis Report stated that the league was ‘‘near to being economically bankrupt’’ and ‘‘unsustainable in its current format’’.

Gavin said that a lot had changed in the three years since that report. Two years ago, the FAI took over the running of the league from the member clubs. It has since imposed a licensing process, which includes a wage cap at 65 per cent of a club’s total income.

‘‘It was best practice last year, it is regulation this year,” said Gavin.

‘‘Clubs were paying 95 per cent of their income on players’ wages, which was the highest [percentage] in Europe. Now clubs that do not come under 65 per cent by the end of the season can be sanctioned. The sanctions can go as far as not receiving a licence for next year.”

Gavin said he was optimistic that all clubs would qualify for their 2009 league licences, despite the events of this year. ‘‘Everybody has learned a lot of lessons this year,” he said.

‘‘All 22 clubs have to go through the licensing procedure, and only when that is decided will we know the structure of the league. We will take it that the ten teams that qualified for the league next year will be there, unless we are told otherwise, and the fixtures will be set out accordingly.”

According to Gavin, the FAI is two years into a five-year plan to get the league onto a solid footing.

‘‘We are trying to make clubs more sustainable and community-based,” he said. ‘‘We will then have more credibility and attract more sponsors. It is a marathon, not a sprint, but we have changed the ethos of the league.”

Eliminating club debts had been a priority for the FAI, according to Gavin.

‘‘Last year, the total [debt] was €7 million. This year, that is projected for €3.5 million. Next year, the clubs will be debt-free. At the moment, money is being used by many clubs to service their old debt. If that is no longer needed, clubs can then invest in youth policies, facilities and in staff to make sure the club is run better.”

While Arkaga invested in Cork City as a business opportunity, Gavin did not think that Eircom league clubs were suited to being run for profit. ‘‘It is a difficult situation running a football club,” he said.

‘‘It is not something that you are going to get involved in to make a fortune. A break-even position for most clubs would be a successful season.”

Gavin cited links between Shamrock Rovers and South Dublin County Council as a more sustainable club ownership model. Rovers are due to take up residency in a new, local authority-funded stadium in Tallaght for the start of next season.

‘‘These relationships are like a public private partnership, where the county council recognises the social role played by the football club in communities,” he said.

‘‘There are similar partnerships in many Scandinavian countries.

‘‘There are several different setups within the league. St Patrick’s Athletic have a wealthy backer [property developer Garrett Kelleher] who sees a social responsibility to build up the club. Bohemians is a members-owned club. The most interesting one for us is the link between the club and the local authority.”

Gavin said that the FAI had shown its commitment to the domestic league by raising the prize money for winning the league to €250,000,up from€17,000 five years ago. The FAI Cup is worth another €100,000 to the victorious club.

‘‘Besides the prize money, we have also been working on issues like TV money, sponsorship and other commercial issues to try to help the clubs increase their revenue,” he said.

Another goal is to attract more people to games. Gavin said that attendances in 2007 were up 100,000 on the previous year, although the numbers going to games had levelled off in 2008.

‘‘For the last two years, premier league clubs have [had] a promotion officer working in schools and different parts of the local community, which we co-finance with the club,” he said.

‘‘Clubs that have these officers have seen their attendances increase, whereas clubs without them have not. Sligo Rovers are a fantastic example; their attendances are up 20 per cent this year.”

While Gavin said that it was inevitable that the best players would be attracted to play abroad, he said the priority was to ensure that Irish players were developed to the stage where they could be sold for a decent price.

In the past, players have been sold for small transfer fees - current Irish international Kevin Doyle was sold by Cork to Reading for €120,000 and three years later, is valued at more than €8 million. Cork last week sold their rights to 10 per cent of Doyle’s next transfer fee, to Reading for a sum thought to be in the region of €250,000.

‘‘We have invested heavily in getting our managers to have the UEFA pro licence, which is the top licence for managers in the world,” said Gavin. ‘‘That is reflected in their coaching abilities, and the players in the league have improved.

‘‘Players that are being looked at by English clubs are now a much better product, fitter and technically better, so you can command a higher fee for them.”




.

micls
23/11/2008, 9:19 PM
Could he be any more full of ****. With people like this in charge how do we have any hope.

Not because of bad management :rolleyes:

LeixlipRed
24/11/2008, 8:50 AM
Do you reckon he's that deluded or he just has to say that? Because if he believes any of that stuff we're screwed

Schumi
24/11/2008, 9:38 AM
Deluded stuff. It's unfortunate that the FAI's response to problems since they took over the league has been to become defensive. Any time Gavin is asked about clubs' financial problems, he just repeats that things have got better since the FAI took charge.

WoodquayBoy
24/11/2008, 9:53 AM
What a load of guff.
About two thirds of the way down he says
‘‘Last year, the total [debt] was €7 million. This year, that is projected for €3.5 million. Next year, the clubs will be debt-free."
Two paragraphs below he says
‘‘It is not something that you are going to get involved in to make a fortune. A break-even position for most clubs would be a successful season.”
Now, taking the simplistic approach, if the best scenario is breaking even, than anything else is surely making a loss. If you make a loss, you owe, or are owed, money. That situation is known as a debt.
He probably doesn't realise he is contradicting himself, but it makes him look very silly

Mr A
24/11/2008, 10:57 AM
Gavin said he was optimistic that all clubs would qualify for their 2009 league licences, despite the events of this year. ‘‘Everybody has learned a lot of lessons this year,” he said.

WTF? I know he can't publicly pre-empt licensing but that's quite a statement. Scary stuff. I think the line for the FAI should be more that offenders will be punished than just pretending everything is hunky dory.

Dodge
24/11/2008, 11:00 AM
In fairness to gavin, the majority of people here would like the Fai to be more enthusiastic about our league, and we cry foul when a journalist writes a negative article on the league. Gavin is obviously tryinga little bit of spin on things, and if it convinces one sponsor, or 50 fans that the league isn't in the mess that they have read about, then he's done his job.

As LOI fans we're far, far too ready to focus on the negative.

Sheridan
24/11/2008, 11:09 AM
Gavin's Comical Ali act is wearing a bit thin, but he has a duty to make the league look attractive to sponsors, and that's what he's trying to do. He's just not very slick or convincing.

Angus
24/11/2008, 12:53 PM
I disagree with the majority of posts here.

Broadly speaking I support what the FAI have said and have done. The facts are relatively simple - with upwards of 85% of player out of contract the financial problem can be solved, at least partially, at a stroke

Yes that might mean lower players wages and some of our better players going elsewhere but c'est la vie.

The standard of play has got better, yes, but arguably at an unsustainable cost - until the public are tipping up every week, the wages being pauid are not sustainable

A face
24/11/2008, 1:27 PM
People, there is nothing he said there that is any news to us. He has not said anything that we should be flabagasted at, if anything he is guilty of saying the glass is half full.

The media in the last year have given the league an unbelieveable bashing and it was unwarranted in alot of cases. They are never going to be fair, accurate or balanced but they really went to town on it a few times this year. That is why things seem as bleek as they do*

Gavin has all of the information on the league, all the clubs reporting back to him so he is best placed to comment on it and the guy knows full well at this stage that if he says something is Black and it turns out to be White then he will be slaughtered so you can put money on it that he is being realistic when commenting on the league even if he will err on the site of positivity.


* I'm not saying everything is rosey, just not as bad as its made out to be.

Inside Man
24/11/2008, 3:30 PM
Gavin is a true ejit.

micls
24/11/2008, 3:34 PM
People, there is nothing he said there that is any news to us. He has not said anything that we should be flabagasted at, if anything he is guilty of saying the glass is half full.
.

Rubbish, He's blatently lying.

he claims the clubs financial problems are not caused by mismanagement but by the current economic situation. Now theres putting a good spin on it, and there's lies

Dodge
24/11/2008, 3:50 PM
he claims the clubs financial problems are not caused by mismanagement but by the current economic situation. Now theres putting a good spin on it, and there's lies

Where did he claim anything like that? The article writer inferred that but no quotes attributed to gavin suggest he said anythign of the sort. he, rightly, pointed out that there were other factors at play. To suggest the current economic climate isn't a factor is as much folly as suggesting clubs aren't at fault

pateen
24/11/2008, 3:51 PM
Fran Gavin, you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Time to wake up, tell the truth and smell the coffee

micls
24/11/2008, 4:04 PM
Where did he claim anything like that? The article writer inferred that but no quotes attributed to gavin suggest he said anythign of the sort. he, rightly, pointed out that there were other factors at play. To suggest the current economic climate isn't a factor is as much folly as suggesting clubs aren't at fault

Well one of them is lying. He doesnt just infer it he says straight out 'According to Fran Gavin, director of the League of Ireland, the problems faced by the clubs are not due to bad management, but are a very public example of how the downturn is affecting everyone in Irish society.'

IF Fran Gavin said this, as was reported, then he is lying.

Dodge
24/11/2008, 4:17 PM
But surely he'd have used the quotes, like in that elsewhere in his article. No reason not to use that one, unless Gavin didn't say it.

pineapple stu
24/11/2008, 4:41 PM
Or Gavin faffed about, making the quote unwieldier than the essence.

Rovers1
23/12/2008, 9:39 PM
‘‘Clubs that have these officers have seen their attendances increase, whereas clubs without them have not. Sligo Rovers are a fantastic example; their attendances are up 20 per cent this year.”
.

:rolleyes: Resign please

pineapple stu
24/12/2008, 10:11 PM
I dunno if any of yiz have read the Genisis Report but its a good read !!
Judging by your conclusion, you haven't read it either.

Do a search on here.

MariborKev
24/12/2008, 10:30 PM
I have not read it like word by word but i had a peak.

Which appears to mirror the approach that Genesis took when they compiled the report.

SkStu
24/12/2008, 10:37 PM
I have not read it like word by word but i had a peak.


dirty b@stard - its not that sort of read.

or did you mean peek?

LeixlipRed
24/12/2008, 11:51 PM
Did he say that he thinks Setanta will sponsor the league in 2012 with 300 million euro? Back to school for you

passerrby
25/12/2008, 9:42 AM
What?:confused:

I think he means you put as much into reading it as genisis put into compiling it and.

Saint_Charlie
25/12/2008, 1:39 PM
Does that .PDF file open for anyone else?

All I get is a Bebo error page :confused:

Mr Maroon
25/12/2008, 3:30 PM
Does that .PDF file open for anyone else?

All I get is a Bebo error page :confused:
I get the Bebo error page too

adamcarr
25/12/2008, 5:57 PM
I get the Bebo error page too
http://www.fai.ie/merger/pdf/eircomLeague-proposals.pdf

sligoman
01/01/2009, 10:15 PM
Yer still at it:rolleyes:

Saint_Charlie
01/01/2009, 11:19 PM
The FAI should sign you up so...

CSFShels
01/01/2009, 11:49 PM
what do u think of it?
Its terrible. Why promote Limerick and Waterford and relegate Sligo just for the sake of it?

Rovers fan
01/01/2009, 11:55 PM
How are bray in the fai division 1 north but ucd are in the fai division 1 south:rolleyes:?

CSFShels
01/01/2009, 11:57 PM
How are bray in the fai division 1 north but ucd are in the fai division 1 south:rolleyes:?
Hahaha just noticed that, amazing.

LeixlipRed
02/01/2009, 1:01 AM
I think you should be in bed at 1:22am. You've school tomorrow no?

ShnaeGuevara715
02/01/2009, 1:39 AM
Bed might be best. Because all your ridiculous scheming will only come true in your... dreams? Hohooo!:cool:

Physically with your bare hands, go into your local when theres a Manure or Chelski match on, grab about 50 people and get them thru the turnstyles at the Carlisle Grounds. If Bray aren't playing, then go to the nearest LoI match. On a weekly basis, home and away. Because that'd help your club a lot more than your weekly juvenile god complex pie in the sky formulae that do nothing more than show your ignorance to the others and irritate the rest.

Personally, back to the topic, i'd say that clubs should just follow Shamrock Rovers. Cleared the debts, ran within means, excellent youth setup, owned and ran by the fans, with a community built stadium and sensibly part-time until better days. Get the (non old firm) Scots into Setanta maybe with a few Welsh teams like Cardiff if theyre bothered. Long term obviously pro All Ireland league merged associations and national teams... i'm just an old romantic lol :rolleyes: Celtic League even?

jinxy lilywhite
02/01/2009, 11:54 AM
Reaction to this please..

Premier League and 2 Regional leagues North and South starting 2012.

Fai Premier league

Bohemians,
Cork City,
Derry City,
Drogheda United,
Dundalk,
Galway United,
Limerick,
Shamrock Rovers,
St Patricks Athletic,
Waterford United

Fai Division 1 North

Bray Wanderers,
Finn Harps,
Longford Town,
Monaghan United,
Mullingar Athletic,
Navan Cosmos,
Shelbourne,
Sligo Rovers,
Sporting Fingal,
UCD

Fai Division 1 South

Athlone Town,
Clonmel Town,
Cobh Ramblers,
Ennis Town,
FC Carlow,
Kildare County,
Kilkenny City,
Tralee Dynamos,
Tullamore Town,
Wexford


This is hillarious. Why should a soon to be defunct drogheda be in the premier ahead of the likes of UCD, Sligo, Shels and others. Why should a 4th place waterford be there ahead of them.




> Premier League is Full Time,Regional Leagues are Part Time.

Should finances and revenue streams coupled with attendences of clubs not dictate that



>The New structure would begin in 2012,by then the facilities should be much improved

very optimistic




>There will be a reserves (U21) league and a Youth (U18) league also.


how are clubs going to finance a 1st team, U21 and an U18 side.





>Pitches meet International standard and high quality training facilities


see my point on finances



>All clubs adhere to licensing requirements


Most clubs do



>Professional management & administration in clubs with a long-term
planning focus


Still dreaming



>Clubs stable, solvent and investing in infrastructure and development
>High profile coverage across all media (TV, Radio, Print, Digital)
>High quality branding and marketing, attracting premium sponsors/partners
>League is the pinnacle of the football pyramid with a clear pathway from
under-age, youth, senior leagues and partnership with all of football
>Young players aspiring to play in the league and the clubs developing their
own talent with successful National underage leagues in place

>All clubs/schools in the area are attached to their local ‘league’ club

>A huge Promotional campaign before the season begins

Fat chance

BTW can you PM me and tell me what you are on because It must be some good stuff

oldyouth
02/01/2009, 12:57 PM
Yep,keep changing my mind though
Keep going, this new one isn't working either:D

holidaysong
02/01/2009, 2:11 PM
A 16 team premier with a second tier comprising of two regionalised divisions would be my preference. Teams shouldn't be handpicked in the way you are proposing though. If they are in the premier division, they should be there on merit.

pineapple stu
02/01/2009, 5:28 PM
id like to see someone elses ideas for once
No.

We had a new random picky league, and it's done nothing. Stop posting nonsense and accept that changing teams in the league won't do anything.

kingdomkerry
02/01/2009, 7:03 PM
All Ireland league the way to go.

Dodge
02/01/2009, 7:08 PM
Why are you all so pessimistic?

You're the one saying football is doomed. How about you post anything but your ideas for the future of the league and see if people will take you more seriously

osarusan
02/01/2009, 8:52 PM
i think we should keep with the current structure until 2012,In 2012 i think we should switch to a winter league which would be properly resourced good attendances,better facilties,better quality players,a complete full time premier league.with 10 teams based on Population to get the most fans.


Jesus Christ man, are you going to wave your magic wand and just make all this happen?

If we could increase attendances, we would have done it. What ideas do you have to get new fans into the ground?
If we could improve facilities, we would have done it. What ideas do you have to get money to improve facilities?
If we could improve player quality (whatever that even means), we would be doing it. What ideas do you have to improve player quality?


You can't just say "lets have a fully professional league", because it isn't possible at the moment. The simple fact is that not enough people go to the games, not enough companies are willing to pay a lot of money to advertise at games, and not enough people are willing to invest in domestic football. How do you plan to solve that?

Most of the teams that have gone down that road have spent money they didn't have. This league doesn't have a pot to **** in, and the FAI, whatever they may say, will be directing most of their funds towards Landsdowne for a while.

What you are describing is the dream situation we'd all love to see, but sadly know we are nowhere near achieving.

Rovers fan
03/01/2009, 12:10 AM
there would be a 9 month wait during that time Promote the new league and lots of community work

9 months with feck all income:rolleyes:

A face
03/01/2009, 12:23 PM
Jesus Christ man, are you going to wave your magic wand and just make all this happen?

If we could increase attendances, we would have done it. What ideas do you have to get new fans into the ground?
If we could improve facilities, we would have done it. What ideas do you have to get money to improve facilities?
If we could improve player quality (whatever that even means), we would be doing it. What ideas do you have to improve player quality?


You can't just say "lets have a fully professional league", because it isn't possible at the moment. The simple fact is that not enough people go to the games, not enough companies are willing to pay a lot of money to advertise at games, and not enough people are willing to invest in domestic football. How do you plan to solve that?

Most of the teams that have gone down that road have spent money they didn't have. This league doesn't have a pot to **** in, and the FAI, whatever they may say, will be directing most of their funds towards Landsdowne for a while.

What you are describing is the dream situation we'd all love to see, but sadly know we are nowhere near achieving.

Great post, and its back to the age old issue again. Clubs need to get professional off the pitch and promote the clubs locally to try and get people out to the games.

LK37oldskool
03/01/2009, 12:41 PM
God knows Limerick tried its best this year to promote the game in the city,radio,TV(Setanta),posters/flyers but attendances did not improve much,same faces turn up every game.We're trying to compete with team Munster,GAA and a well supported Junior soccer league. We've got great volunteers doing donkey work in a city thats rife in cynicism. Tough times ahead.

CSFShels
06/01/2009, 6:42 PM
Junior leagues and their complete isolation from League Of Ireland is the bane of this country.