Republic of Ireland V Poland - Wednesday, 19th November 2008 - Friendly

[boovidge]

How can people on the basis of this friendly say we have no hope against Bulgaria who got thrashed by Serbia 6-1?

I must admit to being frustrated by the apparent stubborness of Trap's team selection. I think he underestimates the depth in talent Ireland have.

[back of the net]

And what will we learn from playing two attack minded 20 year olds against that Polish midfield? They'd have been swamped, completely overrun and we'd have been beaten a lot easier than we were. And then there'd be morons on here going mad that they got a cap just like the abuse Gibson got after his debut, and then these nobodys will be demanding some other poor schmuck gets a call up.

We have a way of playing, its going quite well so far. We're on course to qualify. We created plenty of chances last night, and conceded goals from a couple of defensive lapses that we havent shown in the previous six games. Calm down.

im am not saying play both them together jicked
and im not saying gibson or whelan are bad players- but facts are they are not first team players at the moment for their clubs

i agree with you that we have a system and it has worked well BUT we have not yet played any big team with this system

the gibson/whelan partnership has been tried against lesser teams only so far and it has failed

it will be more to the teams benefit to give different players (who are getting first team football at their clubs) more exposure to the international scene than 2 reserve players

garvan and o toole are only examples i am not using specifics - try other players from other positions that are gettin frist team action - thus try different systems

more than likely as the group goes on we are going to be trailing in a game and we may welll need to change the system then - hence give other formations and players a go

[third policeman]

Trapattoni has 2 choices. He can (1) pick a team of individuals or (2) he can pick the individual to fit the team. You want him to chose option 1, I want him to chose option 2. . :D



The fact is he chose the system to suit the players he thought he had. He and the rest of his managerial team did not take time to look beyond the obvious options (established squad players and other Premiership players).

The evidence of last night and Cyprus suggests that niether the system nor the current group of midfield players are at all likely to get us results. So what do you suggest we do. Stick with ths system, stick with the same players and hope for the best? I would rather we thought about alternatives and proting players with the technical ability and guile to play at this level.

[OwlsFan]

As a Watford season ticket holder I can confirm he has matured physically and mentally....has scored 7 goals so far and is by far Watford's most attacking weapon.....he'll almost certainly be bought by a Premiership team in January

I was surprised that he wasn't picked in this squad for a "look/see"


I have seen O'Toole a few times on the box and he looks good, However, Horney, why did he only come off the bench in the last ten minutes in the defeat by Barnsley at the weekend? Injured previously?

Watford: Lee, Mariappa, Bromby, DeMerit, Doyley, McAnuff, Williamson, Smith, Jenkins (O'Toole 80), Harley (Hoskins 78), Priskin (Rasiak 60)

[Sligo Hornet]

I have seen O'Toole a few times on the box and he looks good, However, Horney, why did he only come off the bench in the last ten minutes in the defeat by Barnsley at the weekend? Injured previously?

Watford: Lee, Mariappa, Bromby, DeMerit, Doyley, McAnuff, Williamson, Smith, Jenkins (O'Toole 80), Harley (Hoskins 78), Priskin (Rasiak 60)

No he wsan't, and that strange decision not to play him from the start is why we are in the bottom three!:(

[DeLorean]

Plenty of other people have mentioned O'Toole and Delap, and to be honest if you're throwing the international career of Glenn Whelan away, then you're going to have to replace him with Gibson, Andrews, Delap, O'Toole, Carsley (who wont be around after this season), Reid, Fahey, Garvan and a handful of others you can play at CM instead. The list shortens if you want a particular type of player. So say Whelan is never good enough to play again, which is crazy, and its pretty hard to find a replacement. Carsley, Delap or Andrews. And I'd put Whelan ahead of the lot of them on the back of his performances thus far, and the fact Carsley will retire in May (certainly wont be around to go the WC anyway) and Delap is would be a ridiculous choice.

I think our major difference comes down to the evaluation of Whelan. I think he's crap, u don't...fair enough. We're obviously low on numbers who have been tried and tested and I felt it was worth trying something else last night as we had nothing to lose really as the Cyprus game was a mess. To be honest I don't think we're good enough for the system he trying to play especially with SReid gone. 5 in midfield I think to try to make up for quality with quantity and maybe have another wee visit to see Stephen Manchester.

[ken foree]

the scrappy urgency at the end last night occluded what was largely a dominant polish performance. and before anyone starts with "we had our chances" i believe we failed to test their keeper seriously with any of them before our goals. the two goals from the impact subs and the haywire conclusion will give trap enough ammo to forge ahead without consideration to the glaring weaknesses at central midfield. s. reid is definitely a large hole that needs filling, i don't care if it takes two players to fill it, e.g. owen garvan and another. how about this: can we please have a central midfielder who, with his back to the opposition goal, can receive a pass from our back four, turn with one touch, and play a forward pass with his 2nd? shouldn't be too much to ask of supposed international calibre players, regardless of 'systems' or 'roles'.

[DeLorean]

As a Watford season ticket holder I can confirm he has matured physically and mentally....has scored 7 goals so far and is by far Watford's most attacking weapon.....he'll almost certainly be bought by a Premiership team in January

I was surprised that he wasn't picked in this squad for a "look/see"

http://www.watfordfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/ProfilesDetail/0,,10400~41474,00.html
Thanks for the heads up!!! I'll check Watford out the next time they're on da box, Carling Cup v Spurs Wed week I believe.

[paul_oshea]

Lads here are the facts:
Shots (on Goal) 14(4) 14(6)
Fouls 8 11
Corner Kicks 9 10
Offsides 4 1
Time of Possession 54% 46%
Yellow Cards 0 0
Red Cards 0 0
Saves 3 2


We had a lot more possession and to be honest i thought we had nearer 60% possession. Had the game finished 2-0 I would probably have been more blunt in my assessment and a bit more trigger happy in my summation. The above stats speak for themselves though, the game was quite evenly matched with us having more possession, which you would expect for a home team(even if poland appeared to be the home team). The difference last night comes down to 2 brilliant finishes from the poles and 1 error from a debutant. I think given could have got closer to the second goal as he was out a bit far but apart from that I would say he was solid. A friend at work here told me that City would be happy to see Dunne leave in January, and he said for Dunne himself he needs a fresh start. I'm not sure that drastic action needs to be taken but their is definitely something on his mind and he has been poor the last couple of months. Hopefully its just a poor spell and the dunnie of old returns sooner rather than later. This leads to O'shea I really think he needs a leader beside him to have a good game much like babb and mcgrath , and with dunne being poor so too was he. Kilbane is poor, and trap should have given someone else a run like delaney or whoever. I thought gibson is a more naturally gifted player than whelan and showed this in a few touches, but whelan did quite well in the last 15 mins or so. They were definitely better than against cyprus but they need to get more stuck in. Can they up it another level against georgia? I'm hoping they can otherwise trap definitely needs to look at his options. Anyway everyone else has given their opinion on individual players so no point regurgitating whats already been said, but at the end of the day we lost because our strongest point during the Trap reign let us down and thats our defence. Hopefully we have the bad game out of the way and can get on with being very solid and leak very little at the back, as thats what Trap said he noticed the most about us before he took over.

Finally, im somewhat with ORA and IFK, and I can see where farbeag and botn are coming from, and id say both have valid points, too often we jump off ship and say this or that fella should be playing and it changes every time. Kunt is not a 90 minute player his biggest asset is as a substitue, an impact one to run round like a dope for 15 - 20 minutes expend all energy and win a few throws, after that period of time he fades and makes more bad than good, that is why he is so good as a sub to bring on, which trap seems to realise. Long showed that he is an actually more adepth player with greater skill than NUNT. SO trap obviouslly sees this in training and other things. I think though that one of garvan, mccann or possibnly otoole should have got a chance tonight just to break them into the international arena. Making out that 2 of the 3 are our savoiurs in the midfield is just plain stupid. THey would be overwhelmed and over-awed.

Just like to add ive seen mccann fully twice against Premiership oppossition and he never stuck out. If you really are that good these are the games you should be impressing in and he hasn't.

[paul_oshea]

Again lads a dose of reality is required, 7 points from 9, given the circumstances we found oursevles in and a home is nothing to be writing home about and saying everything is hunky dory because it isn't. But no point in going to the other extreme either. I think had we played georgia at home we would have drawn against them and be only 5 points.

[Wolfie]

Last night illustrated that Trapp's methodology relies heavily on keeping the Status Quo, nicking the lead and fighting to hold onto it.

We've such a paucity of experienced and creative quality in the middle (whether its currently self-inflicted or not) that it makes chasing a game much more difficult.

Have the team seriously legislated for it tactically. Just what changes if we go a goal down?

Trapp's brand of football demands a ruthless streak when chances present themselves. The Italians are past masters of killing a game and winning it when one chance presents itself.

We simply can't play Trapp's way and pass up the opportunities that Duff did last night. It could well end up the difference between qualifying or not.

Stephen Reid's loss has been devastating - yet the fact is, we can't build a team around a bloke who is injured far more often than he's available.

[paul_oshea]

Plenty of other people have mentioned O'Toole and Delap, and to be honest if you're throwing the international career of Glenn Whelan away, then you're going to have to replace him with Gibson, Andrews, Delap, O'Toole, Carsley (who wont be around after this season), Reid, Fahey, Garvan and a handful of others you can play at CM instead. The list shortens if you want a particular type of player. So say Whelan is never good enough to play again, which is crazy, and its pretty hard to find a replacement. Carsley, Delap or Andrews. And I'd put Whelan ahead of the lot of them on the back of his performances thus far, and the fact Carsley will retire in May (certainly wont be around to go the WC anyway) and Delap is would be a ridiculous choice.

Good post jicked. Smack of realism there.

[OneRedArmy]

Last night illustrated that Trapp's methodology relies heavily on keeping the Status Quo, nicking the lead and fighting to hold onto it.

We've such a paucity of experienced and creative quality in the middle (whether its currently self-inflicted or not) that it makes chasing a game much more difficult.

Have the team seriously legislated for it tactically. Just what changes if we go a goal down?

Trapp's brand of football demands a ruthless streak when chances present themselves. The Italians are past masters of killing a game and winning it when one chance presents itself.

We simply can't play Trapp's way and pass up the opportunities that Duff did last night. It could well end up the difference between qualifying or not.

Stephen Reid's loss has been devastating - yet the fact is, we can't build a team around a bloke who is injured far more often than he's available.Spot on.

I would add that not only can we afford Duffs wastefulness in front of goal, Trapps tactics rely on us being absolutely tight at the back.

Thats why what happened at the back last night is way more important to our qualification hopes than what happened further up the field.

[eirebhoy]

Just like to add ive seen mccann fully twice against Premiership oppossition and he never stuck out. If you really are that good these are the games you should be impressing in and he hasn't.
Coyle thought he played well against Fulham...

"Chris was outstanding. I believe he is good enough to play in the Premier League now. He has just got to keep doing it week in, week out.

He has a lot of energy and he created three or four opportunities against a Premier League side full of good players."

Whether he stood out against Chelsea or not, he played in a midfield that had 51% of the possession at Stamford Bridge. Not bad at all.

[Maroon 7]

the scrappy urgency at the end last night occluded what was largely a dominant polish performance. and before anyone starts with "we had our chances"

Well we did have plenty of chances therefore it's hard to see how it was a dominant Polish performance. Duffer himself could have had a hat-trick only for some wayward finishing. Both defences looked suspect. Both teams had lots of chances and Poland took theirs better.

The major concern from last night was how poorly we defended because we created enough chances to win three games even if nobody could manage to hit the net until the last minute.

[paul_oshea]

Coyle thought he played well against Fulham...

"Chris was outstanding. I believe he is good enough to play in the Premier League now. He has just got to keep doing it week in, week out.

He has a lot of energy and he created three or four opportunities against a Premier League side full of good players."

Whether he stood out against Chelsea or not, he played in a midfield that had 51% of the possession at Stamford Bridge. Not bad at all.


sorry I was on about chelsea this year and in the fa cup last year at turf moor against arsenal(i think) i know it was a bad sunday day anyway!

[DeLorean]

And we think we have problems....

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12010_4523960,00.html

[ken foree]

Well we did have plenty of chances therefore it's hard to see how it was a dominant Polish performance. Duffer himself could have had a hat-trick only for some wayward finishing. Both defences looked suspect. Both teams had lots of chances and Poland took theirs better.

The major concern from last night was how poorly we defended because we created enough chances to win three games even if nobody could manage to hit the net until the last minute.

we never forced their keeper into a serious save (i remember a doyle snapshot) and they shoulda been 3-0 up by the time we clawed something back late on. they were dominant as their play had far more cohesion, quality and (not least) style, no matter what our number of sporadic chances that fell to duff. non-stats-wise they simply outclassed us. i confess i'd rather poland win that game handily as reward for the way they set about playing their football. we were ugly, sorry.

[paul_oshea]

berbatov does seem like a bit of a sulk to be honest. spose lots of continentals seem like that though!

[lankyboy26]

I would agree that a point away to Montenegro wasn't a complete disaster as they are clearly useful enough. The worst thing about that game is we never really threatened ourselves (although we should have had a pen or two) and to be fair I don't think they were completely unhappy with a point themselves. Like John Joe what's his face I haven't mentioned Delap either and don't think he should be in the team. The way I see it Whelan isn't good enough and will never be, not sure about Gibson but has done nothing yet, maybe if he leaves United he'll improve further.

As for the whole mong thing well obviously I'm seeing the glass as being half empty at the moment. In the time I've been watching soccer I've always felt that the centre midfield being able to hold their own was important, crazy as it may sound. Completely overrun AT HOME by Cyprus and Poland isn't good enough and if you have seen it differently then maybe tis u that doesn't watch enough soccer. Or maybe it's u that just checks Aertel:

IRELAND P3 W2 D1 L0 F3 A1 PTS7

Jeeze they must be doing well........doesn't tell the full story though does it??
a point away to montenegro is nothing to be proud of lads. if we'd been more positive and had andy reid playing we'd have beaten them. italy are a poor side in my opinion, they have no strikers and their defence is very questionable. if we had a full strength first 11 at home we should beat them. lets be bloody positive about things. we have the potential to win this group if the manager picks the right players. given, kilbane, dunne, o shea, finnan (excellent defence), andy reid, steven reid, mcgeady, duff, doyle and keane up front. best starting 11 of any of the teams in our group. bulgaria are a nothing side

[DeLorean]

we never forced their keeper into a serious save (i remember a doyle snapshot) and they shoulda been 3-0 up by the time we clawed something back late on. they were dominant as their play had far more cohesion, quality and (not least) style, no matter what our number of sporadic chances that fell to duff. non-stats-wise they simply outclassed us. i confess i'd rather poland win that game handily as reward for the way they set about playing their football. we were ugly, sorry.

I totally agree that Poland were the far superior side last night. You can count chances and produce stats til the cows come home but at the end of it the Poles looked a far more accomplished side. Stats are sometimes interesting but they don't give the full picture or anywhere near it. Did anybody else hear Andy Gray saying on Saturday that u can tell if a team is on top or not by the amount of injury time that is played....what rubbish!!! Twas during the Bolton Pool match. Anyway as for...

"i confess i'd rather poland win that game handily as reward for the way they set about playing their football. we were ugly, sorry"

You shouldn't use the word "WE" in such an awful statement

[Maroon 7]

we never forced their keeper into a serious save (i remember a doyle snapshot) and they shoulda been 3-0 up by the time we clawed something back late on. they were dominant as their play had far more cohesion, quality and (not least) style, no matter what our number of sporadic chances that fell to duff. non-stats-wise they simply outclassed us. i confess i'd rather poland win that game handily as reward for the way they set about playing their football. we were ugly, sorry.

Well the stats have already been posted showing that it was a far from dominant performance from Poland. Same number of shots on goal. Virtually identical corner count. Ireland actually had more possession.

One thing the Poles did better was finish which obviously is pretty important if you want to win games and therefore they deserved to win but to say they dominated the game just isn't the case. Ireland had too many decent goalscoring chances for that to be true. Both defences were shambolic at times and a shambolic defence isn't a trait of a dominant side.

Yes they played prettier football but so do most teams we play even ones we usually beat.

Having said that it was a fairly poor Irish display and only a moderate Polish one.

[ken foree]

You shouldn't use the word "WE" in such an awful statement

it's a friendly and if a few home truths can be learned from that awful display i have no apologies or corrections to make

[DeLorean]

it's a friendly and if a few home truths can be learned from that awful display i have no apologies or corrections to make
What would u change for Georgia?

[ken foree]

What would u change for Georgia?

ha, center midfield obviously! failing the miraculous recovery of s. reid or the prodigal (ha-ha) return of s. ireland i'd play 4-4-2 and draft andy reid in for the play-making role. i'd sit him dead-center and ask him to run the game. he's not the be-all but he offers enough on the ball at this level, certainly more in possession than whelan or gibson or andrews. we had a shocking lack of fluidity and creative possession last night in that area and i actually think that contributed more heavily to the uncharacteristic defensive lapses we saw. at home 4-4-2 against georgia in a competitive match we should have enough with him in the side to win.

[DeLorean]

Ya most of the team picks itself it really, who would partner AReid?? 4-4-2 is ok I would imagine for Georgia alright but come the difficult matches we're far too leightweight for it.

[ken foree]

Ya most of the team picks itself it really, who would partner AReid?? 4-4-2 is ok I would imagine for Georgia alright but come the difficult match we're far too leightweight for it.

it would have to be whelan at this moment. he's a shielder rather than a pure (gattuso) destroyer but i guess he'd have to play given his acceptable performance with s. reid against georgia the first time. against italy i wouldn't be averse to playing five in the middle with a. reid either deep or behind the lone striker. bulgaria are a different proposition at present, it doesn't seem apparent which bulgaria we'll actually face.

[lankyboy26]

it would have to be whelan at this moment. he's a shielder rather than a pure (gattuso) destroyer but i guess he'd have to play given his acceptable performance with s. reid against georgia the first time. against italy i wouldn't be averse to playing five in the middle with a. reid either deep or behind the lone striker. bulgaria are a different proposition at present, it doesn't seem apparent which bulgaria we'll actually face.
spain won the european championships in the summer. who were in their qualifying group? northern ireland. northern ireland beat spain 3-2, they beat the best team in europe. and here we are struggling to scrape past bloody georgia and cyprus. we are a far better team than northern ireland. we have the potential to be a better team than italy. italy are the worst they have ever been at international level. we should be looking to beat them at home and bulgaria too

[viagogo]

spain won the european championships in the summer. who were in their qualifying group? northern ireland. northern ireland beat spain 3-2, they beat the best team in europe. and here we are struggling to scrape past bloody georgia and cyprus. we are a far better team than northern ireland. we have the potential to be a better team than italy. italy are the worst they have ever been at international level. we should be looking to beat them at home and bulgaria too

Why do people go on about Italy being a poor team.

They are the current World Champions, only a few months ago lost to Spain on penalties in the Euros and most of their team plan regularly in the Champions League.

We have only a couple playing in the Champions League and most of these will be out soon and honestly how many of our players would get into the Italy team or squad. Nobody except maybe Robbie Keane.

[DeLorean]

it would have to be whelan at this moment. he's a shielder rather than a pure (gattuso) destroyer but i guess he'd have to play given his acceptable performance with s. reid against georgia the first time. against italy i wouldn't be averse to playing five in the middle with a. reid either deep or behind the lone striker. bulgaria are a different proposition at present, it doesn't seem apparent which bulgaria we'll actually face.

I hate to admit it but Whelan appears to be the only candidate to partner Reid seeing as nobody else has been given an opportunity and there's no more friendlies. Of course Reid prob isn't even an option in Trapps head anyway so I think we may be fecked.

[musicinmouth]

it would have to be whelan at this moment. he's a shielder rather than a pure (gattuso) destroyer but i guess he'd have to play given his acceptable performance with s. reid against georgia the first time. against italy i wouldn't be averse to playing five in the middle with a. reid either deep or behind the lone striker. bulgaria are a different proposition at present, it doesn't seem apparent which bulgaria we'll actually face.

I think Carsley should partner Andy Reid, I think they would complement each other very well... It's never going to happen though. I wish we could have a manager would actually pick a sensible team for a change...

[SkStu]

How can people on the basis of this friendly say we have no hope against Bulgaria who got thrashed by Serbia 6-1?

I must admit to being frustrated by the apparent stubborness of Trap's team selection. I think he underestimates the depth in talent Ireland have.

the bolded bit is my biggest problem with Trappatoni as manager thus far. His comments in the pre-match press conference hinted at exactly what you said Boovidge. I noticed it at the time but didnt pass comment here.

He persists in playing mediocrity when we have better options and also options with greater potential. I do not understand how this man decides on who makes the squad. I just dont get his selection process. Ignore Brady and the others, the buck stops with Trappatoni.

His selections are just as off the wall as Stauntons but instead of being a terrible manager (as i put Stauntons selections down to) i put Trappatonis decisions down to pig-headed stubbornness.

He is bearing grudges against those who didnt/couldnt make his training camp and he is bearing grudges against the players that journalists ask him questions about. To me, it smacks of "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

[Noelys Guitar]

I wonder who Beenhakker would play if he was manager of Ireland? The Poles played some really nice one/two touch stuff last night so I could definetely see a place for Andy Reid.

[back of the net]

I wonder who Beenhakker would play if he was manager of Ireland? The Poles played some really nice one/two touch stuff last night so I could definetely see a place for Andy Reid.

well noely im pretty sure he would not be playing two reserve team players anyway

[lankyboy26]

Why do people go on about Italy being a poor team.

They are the current World Champions, only a few months ago lost to Spain on penalties in the Euros and most of their team plan regularly in the Champions League.

We have only a couple playing in the Champions League and most of these will be out soon and honestly how many of our players would get into the Italy team or squad. Nobody except maybe Robbie Keane.
italy ARE a poor team. who's italy'sbest player? cannavaro. and he's practically finished, he's been rubbish for real madrid. they have no strikers as i've said. their midfield is very ordinary, gattuso and de rossi??? hardly anything special. and then you've dossena at left back along with matterazzi centre-half?and you're telling me the only irish player who'd get on the team is robbie keane?! wake up man. even the italian press have said italy are shi%te, i will go to the bookies tomorrow and bet everything i own that italy will not retain the world cup, in fact i'd put a bet on that they won't even qualify. ireland have a better squad

[tetsujin1979]

Given was unlucky with the first and last goal, but I thought he was a little too close to his line for the second. On the other hand, he wasn't given much protection from the two centre halves
Dunne and O'Shea both suffered from Dunne's recent lack of form. While Dunne still made some fantastic tackles to break up attacks, and win the ball back, O'Shea suffered from the lack of leadership from Dunne. Perhaps the one game suspension against Arsenal (who he's always had bad games against) and the impending birth of his child will help rectify his recent performances.
The full backs were improved from the Cyprus game, but Kilbane's positional sense still had him caught out. McShane pushed forward more, as he has been doing for Hull recently, but suffered with Keogh playing in front of him. Also, Poland had one runner from midfield between Dunne and McShane, and another on the overlap and he didn't know who to mark. Dunne was telling him to stay close, but Trap seemed to be telling him to push out.
Keogh isn't a winger, and although I can understand the reason behind Trap playing him on the right (i.e. his performance there against Forest) it doesn't make sense that he didn't realise that Keogh scored when he played through the middle in that game, and Long had swapped with him to come in from the right.
Whelan and Gibson were improved from the Cyprus game in that they seemed to have a better understanding what is expected from their partnership in central midfield. However, they're too similar players to be an effective partnership. Both need a ball winner beside them, and both suffered because of this. I do think both players can have an impact at this level, just not in the same side. The ball was played across in front of them too often without them reclaiming possession
Duff is definitely improving under Trapattoni, injuries had robbed us of his talents for the last 2 campaigns, and I really hope he continues in this vein. Unfortunately, he's no finisher.
Doyle worked hard alongside Folan, and seemed to be in the "drop deep and received the ball" forward player, which Keane plays when he is Doyle's partner, instead of his usual target man role, which in this game was Folan.
Folan did try hard, and got an assist for Andrews' goal. I feel with better match sharpness, he would have scored at least once, or released Hunt who was on his left shoulder when he was put through late on. Again, he is an option, and gives us something we don't really have at the moment - a genuine target man. Needs to work on the defensive side of his game

Of the subs, Andrews will probably have the best chance of getting into the starting XI, put simply Stephen Hunt will never start if McGeady and Duff are fit. Andrews could have had 2, if his header had not gone just over before his goal. Some way to mark your debut. Has anyone since David Kelly marked their first cap with a goal?
Hunt did what was we expected of him, came on, and ran at a tiring defence. I was a little surprised that he didn't start. With more time on the pitch he could have had more than just the well taken penalty
Long played on the right, as he did against Forest (where he got the assist on Keogh's goal) and won the penalty we deserved, thought there could have been at least one other.
I didn't see much of Noel Hunt, but from the photos it does look like he was lucky to stay on the pitch with his late tackle. Congratulations on an overdue international debut
Bruce will be the most disappointed of the subs, got turned far too easily for the third goal. Can't see Fiorentina still being interested in him now

Being honest, at 2-0 I was thinking "ok, we made 2 mistakes and got punished, you can't do that at international level". At 2-1 I was thinking "not bad, there's a chance of a late draw". At 3-1, I believe my reaction was "ah, for fcuk sake". And when the final goal went in, I did think it was a fairer reflection of the game.

We played worse against Cyprus and won, and we'll probably play worse than last night and win again. That's football

I recorded the RTE highlights and analysis and you can download it here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7POV8C96

[tetsujin1979]

I wonder who Beenhakker would play if he was manager of Ireland?
I wonder who Trapattoni would have played if he was in charge of Poland? On the other hand, I wonder who my auntie would be if she had balls?

[irishfan86]

Great points as usual Tets, and I appreciate you recording that coverage.

[eirebhoy]

Of the subs, Andrews will probably have the best chance of getting into the starting XI, put simply Stephen Hunt will never start if McGeady and Duff are fit. Andrews could have had 2, if his header had not gone just over before his goal.
Wasn't that Bruce who headed just over? Anyway, excellent post. Morrison and Barrett both scored on their debuts I think.

[Stuttgart88]

It’s all been thrashed out above but just for what it’s worth here’s what I reckon.

• If O’Shea had made some of Dunne’s errors he’d have been slated here. That said, I think this is a good CB partnership. No complaints.
• McShane had a better game than against Cyprus and at least tried to press forward. However, there was no disguising the fact that we need a natural RB in this position.
• Kilbane was fine, but was clearly instructed to stay back.
• Gibson started the game well and faded. He and Whelan were better than against Cyprus though. The lack of pressure of a competitive game allowed Gibson to express himself a bit more.
• Duff had a fine game, poor finishing notwithstanding.
• Keogh has nothing to offer RHM at this level. If only Liam Lawrence was fit so we could have had a look.
• It was worth having a look at Folan. He did ok but I thought both Noel Hunt and Shane Long looked livelier and harder to defend against. I though the team lacked tempo until the Reading trio were introduced.
• Doyle had to work hard and player deeper than usual and did well enough in the circumstances.

Stephen Hunt is an enigma. He clearly does play better off the bench though there’s no logic to this.

I’m disappointed we didn’t get to see Foley and Delaney. The well known trio of young Championship central midfielders have to be looked at at some stage and I’m frustrated it wasn’t this week.

Trap is clearly set in his ways so we’d better hope that central midfield improves, the defence stays strong and the 6 or so genuine internationals we have stay fit.

It wasn’t a bad game. Their goals were well taken, Duff could have had a couple of goals. Based on chances created we did OK, but there are flaws in this team that were exposed and it’s no harm to be aware of them.

[paul_oshea]

I wonder who Trapattoni would have played if he was in charge of Poland? On the other hand, I wonder who my auntie would be if she had balls?

Isn't that your uncle?

[paul_oshea]

It’s all been thrashed out above but just for what it’s worth here’s what I reckon.

• If O’Shea had made some of Dunne’s errors he’d have been slated here. That said, I think this is a good CB partnership. No complaints.
• McShane had a better game than against Cyprus and at least tried to press forward. However, there was no disguising the fact that we need a natural RB in this position.
• Kilbane was fine, but was clearly instructed to stay back.
• Gibson started the game well and faded. He and Whelan were better than against Cyprus though. The lack of pressure of a competitive game allowed Gibson to express himself a bit more.
• Duff had a fine game, poor finishing notwithstanding.
• Keogh has nothing to offer RHM at this level. If only Liam Lawrence was fit so we could have had a look.
• It was worth having a look at Folan. He did ok but I thought both Noel Hunt and Shane Long looked livelier and harder to defend against. I though the team lacked tempo until the Reading trio were introduced.
• Doyle had to work hard and player deeper than usual and did well enough in the circumstances.

Stephen Hunt is an enigma. He clearly does play better off the bench though there’s no logic to this.

I’m disappointed we didn’t get to see Foley and Delaney. The well known trio of young Championship central midfielders have to be looked at at some stage and I’m frustrated it wasn’t this week.

Trap is clearly set in his ways so we’d better hope that central midfield improves, the defence stays strong and the 6 or so genuine internationals we have stay fit.

It wasn’t a bad game. Their goals were well taken, Duff could have had a couple of goals. Based on chances created we did OK, but there are flaws in this team that were exposed and it’s no harm to be aware of them.


Re: the points about a destructive midfielder who gets stuck in and sits in front of the defense and wins ball back which we clearly need, do people think McShane to be hte perfect example here? I think he does't have the positional sense or pace to be a full back, and he makes too many mistakes at CB to be played there, but if he was played as a defensive midfielder to sit in front of the 2 CBs this could be perfect. IF he makes a mistake there is still a line of defence in behind him so its not as costly. I think McShanes biggest asset is his ability to get stuck in, make tackles and win ball and it could be exactly what we need. All he needs to do then is pass it off to a more creative midfielder who controls the game i.e. Andy Reid.

[eirebhoy]

Re: the points about a destructive midfielder who gets stuck in and sits in front of the defense and wins ball back which we clearly need, do people think McShane to be hte perfect example here? I think he does't have the positional sense or pace to be a full back, and he makes too many mistakes at CB to be played there, but if he was played as a defensive midfielder to sit in front of the 2 CBs this could be perfect. IF he makes a mistake there is still a line of defence in behind him so its not as costly.
The Gary Caldwell way. :) No way would I risk McShane there. I think you're underestimating how fatal it can be for the deepest midfielder to lose possession.

[paul_oshea]

The Gary Caldwell way. :) No way would I risk McShane there. I think you're underestimating how fatal it can be for the deepest midfielder to lose possession.

NO, I'm not saying to lose possession, using him simply to win back possession. As soon as he gets it he gets rid of it. I spose though what I'm really saying is that he would be good in a 5 man midfield, but its not a route we can afford to go down really, given the quality we have in certain positions and the need to use that quality.

[RivaldoBabb]

We were shocking. No stability in defence, non existant midfield and a few headless chickens up front.

This is the worst pool of players we have had in the last 20 years.

[geysir]

Good reading from Tets and Stutts
The use of bullets definitely adds that bit of oomph.

It will be curious to see what Trap makes of Andrews.
I liked the response from Whelan in a post match interview, more or less expressed a steely determination to get into the first team at Stoke

[Stuttgart88]

No way would I let McShane anywhere near a midfield berth.

The best Irish midfield performance I've seen at any level in years was at St. Mary's where we played a 3 man midfield of Garvan, Stephen Quinn & JJ O'Toole.

[eirebhoy]

This is the worst pool of players we have had in the last 20 years.
Jesus it wasn't too long ago that I was shouting for Kavanagh to come in to midfield. He did come in for a bit, in place of Matt Holland who hardly kicked a ball for us in so many games. Kinsella played a bit here and there but he was past it and was moving to clubs like Walsall. Healy also played a few games while Kilbane was a mainstay in the centre.

We had Steve Finnan filling in at right midfield a lot. Duff had to play up front a bit before Morrison broke in the team. Morrison's nowhere near this squad. Gary Doherty played almost 20 times under Kerr. Gary Breen and Ian Harte a good few games. Alan Maybury. Alan Lee. Stephen Carr was well past it. Nick Colgan was our sub keeper before Kenny. David Connolly and Alan Quinn got 6 caps each. Stephen Elliott was breaking into the team, albeit a good young player.

Do not tell me this is the worst set of players in 20 years. :) We're never going to have fabulous strength in depth but with everyone fit we've a very strong first team with the exception of the left back spot. There's plenty of back up players but we can't do without Richard Dunne, just like there was no way we could survive without Cunningham under Kerr.

Also, I'd say we could put a midfield together from the current set of players that would outplay any Keane-less team from the McCarthy/Kerr/Stan era.

[DeLorean]

Ya I think it's an insult to the holding midfield role by suggesting that because McShane gets stuck in he could hack it in this position. You need a positional sense and brain for this role, neither are traits I'd associate with him.

[tetsujin1979]

Wasn't that Bruce who headed just over? Anyway, excellent post. Morrison and Barrett both scored on their debuts I think.
Sorry, yeah, it was Bruce. When Andrews scored, I thought it was Bruce, didn't realise it was Andrews until the announcer called out his name.