Republic of Ireland V Poland - Wednesday, 19th November 2008 - Friendly

[Morbo]

just home from the match. thought it was very frustrating.:mad: disappointing performance against a fairly ordinary side. duff had a poor night all round from where i was sitting, his positioning was brutal and as for his finishing... (or lack of!) i was impressed with folan, he seems to have a great attitude. another decent game from doyle.
but seriously lads what can be done about the state of our centre midfield? we could be in serious bother against bulgaria and italy if its not sorted...

Well I do think he have better options for centre midfield, Reid probably isn't going to get a chance but I feel Andrews, Carsley or Delap could do a better job than Gibson anyway, would have liked to have seen Garvin play tonight too to see if he was ready for this level. Anyway we may be better off that we didn't sneak a draw as it may force Trap to reavaluate some of his selections and look at the players he has being omitting so far. Good to see S.Hunt and Andrews get their first goals for us too

[billybunter]

i respectfully ask anyone that saw this game and thinks whelan was poor to take another look. I thought he was very, very good.

[Noelys Guitar]

i respectfully ask anyone that saw this game and thinks whelan was poor to take another look. I thought he was very, very good.

Are you joking! The Italians are laughing. Wake up. We are going to be playing the World champs.

[irishfan86]

The worrying thing for me is that Poland was one of the worst teams at Euro 2008, and we lost to them, at home, with supposedly our "best" starting lineup.

You can switch things around however you like, but those are the facts and they scare the **** out of me.

Hopefully Trap starts Andrews next game, we need some experience in the middle.

[shakermaker1982]

Hopefully this will enlighten the Trap and his backroom staff on a number of key issues before the big game in February.

1: If we persist in playing footballers who are not getting any real game time at their respective clubs then we'll struggle. 5 of the 11 that started last night have hardly played this season and central midfield lacked bite and imagination.

Given
Kilbane
O'Shea
Dunne
McShane
Duff
Whelan
Gibson
Keogh
Doyle
Folan

2: Andy Keogh should never play right/left midfield ever again.

3. Duff is wasted on the right wing. To make matters worse it wasn't to accomodate McGeady but Keogh?

4. If he persists with Gibson and Whelan against Bulgaria or Italy we might as well wave the white flag now. Plenty of other options out there that were worth testing out in a friendly. Delap, Carsley and Andrews have all had good starts to the season yet he ignores them or gives Andrews a 20 minute cameo. Baffling.

5. Defense. What are we doing? Zonal, man marking, do players know who they are supposed to be marking at set pieces? Inept performance from the back 4 last night. Worrying times indeed. People might say this was only a friendly but they help build momentum and confidence. To make matters worse this was pretty much a full strength time and we got played off the park.

Positives from last night:

Folan - worked hard but if match sharpe I'm sure he'd have beat the defender for pace and tucked it away. I loved his movement and willingness to link up with midfield.

Doyle - impressed again

Duff - just wish he had his shooting boots on

The substitutes - the Hunt brothers raised the intensity levels a notch, Shane Long has never let Ireland down and always plays well as an impact sub + Andrews didn't look out of place and took his goal superbly.

[lankyboy26]

i think that definitely Keith Andrews deserves to start the next game. he's been doing well for Blackburn and anyone is better than Gibson. christ i felt sorry for him, he was useless, the game just passed him by. whelan tried his best in fairness, got no help from gibson, not good enough though. forget about lee carsley lads he's finished. andy reid should be in the squad that's for sure. was very impressed by caleb folan, didn't think he was capable of some of the stuff he did last night. disappointed with duff again, he just can't finish. it's no good getting into good positions and then shooting wide, this is international football, you have to take your chances and he wasted 3 good ones. richard dunne was shaky, mcshane did well i thought

[Newryrep]

Also, the Polish fans showed the Irish barstool generation what supporting a team is all about.

I would pretty much agree with this. The Polish fans were an absolute credit and showed what support should be - and it was only a friendly.

If there was ever case for geting rid of the band/having a singing section last night should be the final straw.

Thought it was a great game, could of been 3-2 to us at half time if both teams had taken their chances.

[ifk101]

Can we have a little perspective without going OTT?

Keith Andrews is what's known as a "journeyman". Good for him that he has gotten his chance at Blackburn and his first goal tonight, but to assume that an uncapped player can come into the team and run the show is hilarious to say the least.

Great that N. Hunt got a run out last night but clearly a long way from the standard of Doyle who was excellent again. The best of our subs was Long IMO - a player heavily criticised on this board for no apparent reason because he has always done well when he has played.

I thought Dunne was somewhat shaky last night - but remember this is a guy that had travelled home to be with his partner 24 hours prior to match start so not ideal preparation. Kilbane was dodgy enough but we know he's not a full-back - maybe Stephen Ward (a winger/striker btw) is an option further down the line but left back has been a problem area for a couple of years now.

Whelan/Gibson partnership wasn't good last night but suggesting uncapped players like Garvan/McCann/O'Toole is the answer is premature. Andy Keogh was Maradonna on this board before he got capped but read the "criticism" he's taking now.

It's quite clear that the rule of thumb on this board is that Ireland's best players on the night are the one's that weren't playing.

[FarBeag]

It really, really wasn't. I'd have Andy Reid in the squad for sure, and I don't think the two guys in the middle set the world on fire tonight, but its the sort of game Andy Reid wouldn't have made a lick of difference in, just as he didn't in so many games of this type in years gone past. We created plenty of chances, what we needed was more bite in the middle which even Reid's biggest fans wouldn't say is his big asset.

What makes you think it was a game crying out for Andy Reid??! If you said the game was crying out for Lee Carsley I'd have disagreed with you, but at least see where you were coming from.

For what its worth, I felt the game was crying out for one man...Steven Reid. If we don't make it to South Africa his injury may be a massive factor in that. Far big a factor than picking McShane ahead of Foley or whoever as second choice full back.

Why not? Tell me why he should not have been there? After we conceded so early Traps normal way of playing went out the window. This was our first time chasing a game with him in charge and we were found wanting and badly. Where was the creative element to this game last night? There was none apart from the bit already mentioned. Folan put Duff through on two occasions and Gibson put him though on one. If Duff had his scoring boots on we would not have got beaten. Our two goals were scored from a penalty and a last grasp messy effort in the 90 minute although it resulted in a good goal.

If we are chasing a match we need players like A Reid, Garvan or Ireland in our side. Whoever you think partners them whether it be Carsley Andrews or Steven Reid so be it but if Andy Reid was there last night he would have created more chances in fifteen minutes than was created in 90+ last night.

[lankyboy26]

Can we have a little perspective without going OTT?

Keith Andrews is what's known as a "journeyman". Good for him that he has gotten his chance at Blackburn and his first goal tonight, but to assume that an uncapped player can come into the team and run the show is hilarious to say the least.

Great that N. Hunt got a run out last night but clearly a long way from the standard of Doyle who was excellent again. The best of our subs was Long IMO - a player heavily criticised on this board for no apparent reason because he has always done well when he has played.

I thought Dunne was somewhat shaky last night - but remember this is a guy that had travelled home to be with his partner 24 hours prior to match start so not ideal preparation. Kilbane was dodgy enough but we know he's not a full-back - maybe Stephen Ward (a winger/striker btw) is an option further down the line but left back has been a problem area for a couple of years now.

Whelan/Gibson partnership wasn't good last night but suggesting uncapped players like Garvan/McCann/O'Toole is the answer is premature. Andy Keogh was Maradonna on this board before he got capped but read the "criticism" he's taking now.

It's quite clear that the rule of thumb on this board is that Ireland's best players on the night are the one's that weren't playing.
ok if you were trappatoni who would you play in midfield then? keith andrews has shown he is a better player than whelan AND gibson. he has started nearly every game for blackburn. gibson has played 20 minutes for man united. whelan can't get in the STOKE team

[ifk101]

ok if you were trappatoni who would you play in midfield then?

Obviously Whelan/Gibson :D


keith andrews has shown he is a better player than whelan AND gibson. he has started nearly every game for blackburn. gibson has played 20 minutes for man united. whelan can't get in the STOKE team

Debatable. The decision to start one player or the other at club level comes down to the opinion of one man. Should Trapattoni's decision to start A and B be dictated by the individual opinions of respective managers at club level or should we give the man we're paying millions in wages the power to make his own decisions?

[third policeman]

. Anyway we may be better off that we didn't sneak a draw as it may force Trap to reavaluate some of his selections and look at the players he has being omitting so far.

I dont think Trap does re-evaluation. The most we can expect is some minor selection tinkering with the current inadequate crop. Maybe Andrews for Gibson and Finnan, Keane, McGeady will presumably be back as well. But there is no way that he will rethink the system or back track on Andy Reid or Carsely. The critical weaknesses in centre mid and defence will remain, because it is too late to introduce the players who could conceivably improve us in those areas (Foley, St Ledger, Garvan, McCann etc). Poland are not a great side and on last nighte eveidence I would be surprised if we got more than two points from the games with Bulgaria and Italy home and away.

I hate sounding like the prophet of doom, but too many of the current squad are simply not good enough to be playing at this level. We should be picking and developing players with the technical ability and potential required to succeed in international football.

At the present moment I would rather have Owen Coyle managing the Irish team than the current regime.

[OneRedArmy]

I dont think Trap does re-evaluation. The most we can expect is some minor selection tinkering with the current inadequate crop. Maybe Andrews for Gibson and Finnan, Keane, McGeady will presumably be back as well. But there is no way that he will rethink the system or back track on Andy Reid or Carsely. The critical weaknesses in centre mid and defence will remain, because it is too late to introduce the players who could conceivably improve us in those areas (Foley, St Ledger, Garvan, McCann etc). Poland are not a great side and on last nighte eveidence I would be surprised if we got more than two points from the games with Bulgaria and Italy home and away.

I hate sounding like the prophet of doom, but too many of the current squad are simply not good enough to be playing at this level. We should be picking and developing players with the technical ability and potential required to succeed in international football.

At the present moment I would rather have Owen Coyle managing the Irish team than the current regime.Where are these players you are talking about?

Its not like the pool is particularly deep.

[lankyboy26]

Obviously Whelan/Gibson :D



Debatable. The decision to start one player or the other at club level comes down to the opinion of one man. Should Trapattoni's decision to start A and B be dictated by the individual opinions of respective managers at club level or should we give the man we're paying millions in wages the power to make his own decisions?
that's fair enough, it's trap's decision. but surely now it's time to wake up and put his differences with andy reid aside, get rid of whelan and gibson before we're humiliated by italy or bulgaria. is it going to take a heavy defeat before he changes things? or are we gonna keep scraping 1-0 wins against the likes of cyprus and mediocre draws with the mighty montenegro

[Lenny82]

I think losing this game was the best thing that could have happened to us. It forced Trapatoni to make substitutions. If we were 1-0 up I don't think he would have made half as many substitutions and we wouldn't have got to see Andrews or Noel Hunt.
I thought Whelan did well considering he was playing in the middle with Gibson. Next game should see Whelan start in CM with Andrews. I have alot of respect for KK but I think he's heading past his best. McShane did better than normal but you are always nervous when he has the ball or someone is running at him. Would have been an ideal night to start Foley. We need to start giving a left full some experience in friendlies as a future replacement for Kilbane. Delaney and Ward would fit the bill.
Wasn't impressed by Bruce at all and Dunne looked shakey at times. Duff should have scored at least one and passed the ball without looking on a number of occasions (to nobody).
It's a pity that Trap is choosing Premier League subs over Championship regulars but it's early days yet and things may change, however, although Carsley is playing well at Birmingham, he will probably be retiring next season and would be 36 by the time the World Cup comes around. People are saying that Delap should be in the team but they have obviously not watched him play this season other than the highlights of his throw-ins on match of the day. Steven Reid is badly missed.

[back of the net]

Obviously Whelan/Gibson :D



Debatable. The decision to start one player or the other at club level comes down to the opinion of one man. Should Trapattoni's decision to start A and B be dictated by the individual opinions of respective managers at club level or should we give the man we're paying millions in wages the power to make his own decisions?

everyone has their own opinion on who should start and they are entitled to it of course


but playing players that are not even getting first team football at international level....its farcical...nobody in their right mind can justify that..apart from trappatoni and brady seemingly..which is very worrying


if stan did that and brady was still an analyst on rte , brady would have crucified him....it just does not make sense

i appreciate we dont have a huge pool of players ....but at least play players that are getting first team football

poland are an extremely poor side - yet we made them look good
gibson was out of his depth last nite , as was whelan

[lankyboy26]

everyone has their own opinion on who should start and they are entitled to it of course


but playing players that are not even getting first team football at international level....its farcical...nobody in their right mind can justify that..apart from trappatoni and brady seemingly..which is very worrying


if stan did that and brady was still an analyst on rte , brady would have crucified him....it just does not make sense

i appreciate we dont have a huge pool of players ....but at least play players that are getting first team football

poland are an extremely poor side - yet we made them look good
gibson was out of his depth last nite , as was whelan
couldn't agree with you more. brady is a hypocrite. the slating staunton got was justifiable but surely now it's justifiable to slate the current management team. we've been rubbish in the qualifying games in my opinion. and poland are a very average side. they destroyed us in midfield and anyone who knows anything about soccer can see that. can you imagine if the england manager left gareth barry or frank lampard on the bench and started with danny guthrie or kevin nolan??? there'd be war. and rightly so

[third policeman]

Where are these players you are talking about?

Its not like the pool is particularly deep.

I am willing to wager that within 12 months Garvan, O'Toole, McCann and possibly McCarthy will be playing at Premiership or equivalent level. I think Fahey also demonstrates more guile and potential than any of the midfield players in the current squad. What seems absolutely ludicrous is that we have not taken the last 8 months to have a look at these players all of whom have been collecting plaudits and getting the attention of Prem managers. Instead we put our faith in players who have already demonstrated their limitations at this level, or who are struggling to get a game with their club sides. And guess what happens? We get overrun by Cyprus and Poland.i

[ifk101]

So what are we suggesting here?

Change the side every game based on who's playing with their respective clubs and who's not? And are we suggesting pick the individual and not the team?

[FarBeag]

couldn't agree with you more. brady is a hypocrite. the slating staunton got was justifiable but surely now it's justifiable to slate the current management team. we've been rubbish in the qualifying games in my opinion. and poland are a very average side. they destroyed us in midfield and anyone who knows anything about soccer can see that. can you imagine if the england manager left gareth barry or frank lampard on the bench and started with danny guthrie or kevin nolan??? there'd be war. and rightly so


I tend to agree with what ye are saying here. It was proved last night that we are not a good team. We have some good players, Duff, Doyle, Keane, Dunne Finnan, McGeady (Steven Reid injured) Andy Reid (not good enough in Traps eyes) and Given but where are we going to get the other five from to make a decent team?

There are good players out there in the likes of Garvan, McCann, McCarthy St Ledger who should be in the squad but they may as well not exist.

We have beaten no one of any use yet and we were well beaten by a very limited Polish team. Unless Trap wakes up and smells the coffee we won’t even finish fourth in this group.

[ifk101]

We have beaten no one of any use yet and we were well beaten by a very limited Polish team. Unless Trap he wakes up and smells the coffee we won’t even finish fourth in this group.

Great argument. Poland are no good yet they qualified for this summer's EC whilst we were nowhere near qualifying.

If only we had picked a bunch of chaps playing in the Championship we would of hammered those Poles last night. :rolleyes: Indeed Trapattoni - wake up and smell the coffee!

[back of the net]

I tend to agree with what ye are saying here. It was proved last night that we are not a good team. We have some good players, Duff, Doyle, Keane, Dunne Finnan, McGeady (Steven Reid injured) Andy Reid (not good enough in Traps eyes) and Given but where are we going to get the other five from to make a decent team?

There are good players out there in the likes of Garvan, McCann, McCarthy St Ledger who should be in the squad but they may as well not exist.

We have beaten no one of any use yet and we were well beaten by a very limited Polish team. Unless Trap he wakes up and smells the coffee we won’t even finish fourth in this group.

to be honest farbeag , i dont really know if its down to us been a good team or not - i dont think we will really know how good we are until trap starts playing the right players that deserve to be in the team on merit

like you said there are good players out there - your examples of garvan , mccann and o'toole
had we played these guys last nite - would we have been so overrun in midfield?..probably not

but instead for some mystifying reason we are playing reserve club players instead of these guys and cos of this we cant really make a judgement on how the far the team has come or how far the team has gone backwards

its really really worrying..

[Ordinary Fan]

How quick we are to moan. Nothing has changed, S Reid has not been replaced in midfield and the only obvious candidate for the next few matches is Carsley, Gibson was much better than against Cyprus but Whealen was trying to hard.

The game was decided in the first half when Folan let his marker have a header for the goal followed by Duff not testing the Keeper with 3 attempts. Duff's goals to shooting ratio is rubbish, even hitting the target is terrible. Still a great attacking option.

A deffo penalty in the first half not given, another peno in the seconf half (on Lona) not given, dubious peno (on Long) given.
Long was suprisingly effective and very involved when he came on, S Hunt does what he does best as a sub for Ireland.

The defense was all at sea throughout the game with plaudets to none of the 5 who tried out.
The Polish fans made it a great night and shows what Croke Park could be like if the Irish supporters were there to support the team and not just to be entertained.

[FarBeag]

Great agrument. Poland are no good yet they qualified for this summer's EC whilst we were nowhere near qualifying.


So you think they are good based on the fact they reached a tournament in the summer? Were they any good then? No they were not and it wasn’t just them that were rubbish.

Did you see them play last night and if so do you think they are still as good as you make them out to be? Do you think we have a good team?

They are not a good team and either are we. We did not qualify for the last EC because we were not good enough and we won’t qualify for the WC either unless things are changed. We have players out there to make our team better but Trapp wants to ignore them. Can you not see this?

[ifk101]

So you think they are good based on the fact they reached a tournament in the summer? Were they any good then? No they were not and it wasn’t just them that were rubbish.

Did you see them play last night and if so do you think they are still as good as you make them out to be? Do you think we have a good team?

They are not a good team and either are we. We did not qualify for the last EC because we were not good enough and we won’t qualify for the WC either unless things are changed. We have players out there to make our team better but Trapp wants to ignore them. Can you not see this?

Poland were better - they won the game.

[back of the net]

Great argument. Poland are no good yet they qualified for this summer's EC whilst we were nowhere near qualifying.

If only we had picked a bunch of chaps playing in the Championship we would of hammered those Poles last night. :rolleyes: Indeed Trapattoni - wake up and smell the coffee!

go and play some reserves team players from premiership clubs ahead of good players playing regulary for their clubs in the championship!!!is that what we should do??..ridiculous


the polish side consisted of a lot of polish league players i think(open to correction ) - and if thats the case then i would expect our championship players to easily have the edge on them

[eirebhoy]

I found it interesting that in the B game, most of us would have said Andrews was the better of midfield pairing of himself and Gibson. He showed for the ball more, showed more energy and pretty much dominated the play. Gibson held himself back a lot more and wasn't involved in the play as much. Trap picks Gibson ahead of Andrews though because of this system. This system that's allowing teams to dominate against us.

With everyone fit.. Carsley, S.Reid, A.Reid, Garvan and Andrews. I'd probably pick those 5 central midfielders. We've a steriotypical holding midfielder in Carsley, an energetic box to box player in Andrews, a playmaking box to box player in S.Reid, and 2 real playmakers A.Reid and Garvan.

That midfield is good enough. It's better than Bulgaria's surely. Even without S.Reid we could put a good pairing together from the other 4.

I backed Whelan previously but that was more backing up his excellent performances beside S.Reid. Carsley has now moved ahead of him in the pecking order for me.

[OneRedArmy]

the polish side consisted of a lot of polish league players i think(open to correction ) - and if thats the case then i would expect our championship players to easily have the edge on themWhat do you base this assumption on?

The Polish players were better technically than most of our Premiership players!

The Poles are a better side than we are, demonstrated by being ranked higher than us and having qualified for the Euros.

[ifk101]

go and play some reserves team players from premiership clubs ahead of good players playing regulary for their clubs in the championship!!!is that what we should do??..ridiculous

Trapattoni has 2 choices. He can (1) pick a team of individuals or (2) he can pick the individual to fit the team. You want him to chose option 1, I want him to chose option 2.


the polish side consisted of a lot of polish league players i think(open to correction ) - and if thats the case then i would expect our championship players to easily have the edge on them


You don't know who was playing for Poland last night or their respective clubs or the overall quality of those clubs in comparison to the Championship, so that was an interesting point to make. :D

[back of the net]

Trapattoni has 2 choices. He can (1) pick a team of individuals or (2) he can pick the individual to fit the team. You want him to chose option 1, I want him to chose option 2.




You don't know who was playing for Poland last night or their respective clubs or the overall quality of those clubs in comparison to the Championship, so that was an interesting point to make. :D

i want option 2 as well - but option 2 is not going to work if you are using players that dont play regular club football.

im judging the polish players that played last nite - we are talking about last nites game - and i did not see any fantastic technical ability from them -thats what im basing my comparison on

all i saw was limited polish players play through an irish midfield consisting of 2 reserves that were completely out of their depth

an irish midfield that would have been far more stable imo if we had played the players from the championship and who are getting first team football at their clubs

[DeLorean]

Shambles. The only reason for hope is our position in the group and I honestly think that is more to do with the fact that we got our relatively easy matches first. We got to play a difficult away game at a neutral venue with far more of our own fans (as opposed to Tblisi where Bulgaria and Cyprus both dropped points and the Scots fatally lost in the last campaign), we scraped a less than impressive point in tiny Montenegro and were seemingly happy about it and last but not least fluked an completely undeserved win over a Cyprus team missing a couple of key players. The crazy thing is a playoff spot might be as good as secured without doing anything impressive if we beat Georgia at home in February and get another bit of luck against an imploding Bulgarian team who lost 6-1 against Serbia last night and seem to have serious issues with their own manager, not to mention the injury to key player Martin Petrov.

[Jicked]

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.

[Jicked]

Shambles. The only reason for hope is our position in the group and I honestly think that is more to do with the fact that we got our relatively easy matches first. We got to play a difficult away game at a neutral venue with far more of our own fans (as opposed to Tblisi where Bulgaria and Cyprus both dropped points and the Scots fatally lost in the last campaign), we scraped a less than impressive point in tiny Montenegro and were seemingly happy about it and last but not least fluked an completely undeserved win over a Cyprus team missing a couple of key players. The crazy thing is a playoff spot might be as good as secured without doing anything impressive if we beat Georgia at home in February and get another bit of luck against an imploding Bulgarian team who lost 6-1 against Serbia last night and seem to have serious issues with their own manager, not to mention the injury to key player Martin Petrov.

You are an utter mong. Italy scraped a win against Montengro, in Italy. Bulgaria needed a free kick with the last kick of the game to scrape a draw. We were largely comfortable throughout. The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about.

I can't wait to see what League One striker scores a few goals in the weeks before the Georgia game in February that leads to the teletext readers demanding his inclusion and labelling Trappatoni a disgrace for not picking him.

[pineapple stu]

Am I the only one who thought Folan was useless last night? The ball bounced off him more often than not, and often he looked to be making a huge effort to get it someway under control yet he'd be dispossessed with absolute ease by the Polish defenders. He had a couple of decent openings, but it took so long to get the ball under control that the opening would be gone. It was like watching Conor Sammon again.

(And actually, I know I'm not the only one, as everyone around me came away with one main impression from the match, which was that Folan was rubbish).

[DeLorean]

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.

Who knows how Garvan and co would do? they might not be up to it either, u could be right there. Surely they are as entitled to a call up as Glenn Whelan and Darron Gibson though. These guys are nobody's but seem to have the places in CM cemented, especially Whelan who seems to be a key player in Trapps eyes, the guy is worse than useless with absolutely no potential to improve as far as I can see so why waste time with him. Gibson has been poor but I think was worth a call up, no ready yet though.

[geysir]

I only saw the brief RTE highlights, pity cause it looked like an interesting game.
A very good exposure to where we are at now.

Starting with Keogh was the most dubious, he is at best a good sub.
There was even nothing to learn from starting him at RM, we already knew that one.
CM lacks "personality", bite and presence.
As for the rest of the team, that's as good as it gets considering the couple of injuries.

Folan looked alright and Andrews has made a mark.

[back of the net]

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.

FFS!!

we realise garvan and o toole's positions

but the point is that there is no point in trying to play a system with reserve team players

if you dont have the players to play the system for a friendly then just try something else ..a different system...its a friendly..friendlies are for experimentation


there will come a time in the group where a system change will be required ..... so why not try it in a friendly..NOT play 2 reserves in 2 defensive midfield positions...we already knwo thats does not work

try changing the system to adapt in new players

[Jicked]

Who know how Garvan and co would do? they might not be up to it either, u could be right there. Surely they are as entitled to a call up as Glenn Whelan and Darron Gibson though. These guys are nobody's but seem to have the places in CM cemented, especially Whelan who seems to be a key player in Trapps eyes, the guy is worse than useless with absolutely no potential to improve as far as I can see so why waste time with him. Gibson has been poor but I think was worth a call up, no ready yet though.

Because Trappatoni has an idea, a plan. He wants to big defensive midfielders. Whelan hasn't been useless thus far, you're way, way off if you think so and I get the impression you don't watch a lot of football if you think so.

You're right, we don't know how Garvan and co would do. So do you recommend Trap picking a different XI every game, as that's what you seem to be suggesting. And its ludicrous. You can argue for Carsley or Andrews to come in to the midfield and do a holding job, but suggesting that John Joe O'Toole is going to make the difference between us and Italy, well you're mad.

[DeLorean]

You are an utter mong. Italy scraped a win against Montengro, in Italy. Bulgaria needed a free kick with the last kick of the game to scrape a draw. We were largely comfortable throughout. The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about.

I can't wait to see what League One striker scores a few goals in the weeks before the Georgia game in February that leads to the teletext readers demanding his inclusion and labelling Trappatoni a disgrace for not picking him.

We're not talking about Italy!! they're inability to hammer these team doesn't change the fact that we were poor against them.

"We were largely comfortable throughout"

What does this mean- we didn't even win the game so how could we be largely comfortable throughout. Oh yes I know, u mean that we never looked like losing the match but we were playing Montenegro so I was kind of hoping we might win the match. Plus it took a super save from Given late on to get us a point so I would have called that comfortable anyway.

"The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about."

Ok we had our chances too but they laid siege to our goal late on, and considering we were at home to minnows of intn football I'd expect a bit better.

As for the Lge 1 striker thing, that's just stupid.

[Jicked]

FFS!!

we realise garvan and o toole's positions

but the point is that there is no point in trying to play a system with reserve team players

if you dont have the players to play the system for a friendly then just try something else ..a different system...its a friendly..friendlies are for experimentation


there will come a time in the group where a system change will be required ..... so why not try it in a friendl..NOT play to reserves in 2 defensive midfield positions


And what will we learn from playing two attack minded 20 year olds against that Polish midfield? They'd have been swamped, completely overrun and we'd have been beaten a lot easier than we were. And then there'd be morons on here going mad that they got a cap just like the abuse Gibson got after his debut, and then these nobodys will be demanding some other poor schmuck gets a call up.

We have a way of playing, its going quite well so far. We're on course to qualify. We created plenty of chances last night, and conceded goals from a couple of defensive lapses that we havent shown in the previous six games. Calm down.

[Jicked]

We're not talking about Italy!! they're inability to hammer these team doesn't change the fact that we were poor against them.

"We were largely comfortable throughout"

What does this mean- we didn't even win the game so how could we be largely comfortable throughout. Oh yes I know, u mean that we never looked like losing the match but we were playing Montenegro so I was kind of hoping we might win the match. Plus it took a super save from Given late on to get us a point so I would have called that comfortable anyway.

"The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about."

Ok we had our chances too but they laid siege to our goal late on, and considering we were at home to minnows of intn football I'd expect a bit better.

As for the Lge 1 striker thing, that's just stupid.

Oh good god. Are you saying anything other than a win away from home even against a difficult team like Montengro, who have run Italy and Bulgaria all the way, means it was a bad performance?!! Despite the fact we limited them and their dangerous attack to long range efforts.
Cyprus didn't lay siege to our goal. They had a couple of chances, one of which was a good chance. We survived easily enough and should have scored more than one ourselves. And these are the international minnows who played Italy off the park 4 days earlier. But hey, I bet you've never heard of any Cypriots or Montengrens on Match of the Day so they're probably rubbish and its a disgrace that the old bloke who can throw the ball really far isn't the first name on the teamsheet for Ireland.

[pineapple stu]

Mod hat - Jicked, calm down please. There's other ways of arguing a point without calling people mongs or going down eh "Oh good God" route.

[DeLorean]

Because Trappatoni has an idea, a plan. He wants to big defensive midfielders. Whelan hasn't been useless thus far, you're way, way off if you think so and I get the impression you don't watch a lot of football if you think so.

You're right, we don't know how Garvan and co would do. So do you recommend Trap picking a different XI every game, as that's what you seem to be suggesting. And its ludicrous. You can argue for Carsley or Andrews to come in to the midfield and do a holding job, but suggesting that John Joe O'Toole is going to make the difference between us and Italy, well you're mad.

I haven't mentioned John Joe O'Toole in one comment up until now and know f*ck all about him to be honest. I've seen Garvan and think he looks a class ahead of the two boys (GW&DG). I could be proved wrong. I watch plenty of soccer but don't get to see Whelan and Gibson all that often for obvious reasons.

[francesco_1]

lads anybody know what u win for getting picked for "nivea face in the crowd" at half time?

i thought the match was enjoyable the polish support was great and all the people who left early missed 3 goals

[pineapple stu]

I'd say lots of Nivea stuff, at a guess.

[francesco_1]

I'd say lots of Nivea stuff, at a guess.

Oh he will delighted so:) ive never watch ireland away from home are they supporters as vocal as the polish last night?

[DeLorean]

Oh good god. Are you saying anything other than a win away from home even against a difficult team like Montengro, who have run Italy and Bulgaria all the way, means it was a bad performance?!! Despite the fact we limited them and their dangerous attack to long range efforts.
Cyprus didn't lay siege to our goal. They had a couple of chances, one of which was a good chance. We survived easily enough and should have scored more than one ourselves. And these are the international minnows who played Italy off the park 4 days earlier. But hey, I bet you've never heard of any Cypriots or Montengrens on Match of the Day so they're probably rubbish and its a disgrace that the old bloke who can throw the ball really far isn't the first name on the teamsheet for Ireland.

I would agree that a point away to Montenegro wasn't a complete disaster as they are clearly useful enough. The worst thing about that game is we never really threatened ourselves (although we should have had a pen or two) and to be fair I don't think they were completely unhappy with a point themselves. Like John Joe what's his face I haven't mentioned Delap either and don't think he should be in the team. The way I see it Whelan isn't good enough and will never be, not sure about Gibson but has done nothing yet, maybe if he leaves United he'll improve further.

As for the whole mong thing well obviously I'm seeing the glass as being half empty at the moment. In the time I've been watching soccer I've always felt that the centre midfield being able to hold their own was important, crazy as it may sound. Completely overrun AT HOME by Cyprus and Poland isn't good enough and if you have seen it differently then maybe tis u that doesn't watch enough soccer. Or maybe it's u that just checks Aertel:

IRELAND P3 W2 D1 L0 F3 A1 PTS7

Jeeze they must be doing well........doesn't tell the full story though does it??

[Sligo Hornet]

I haven't mentioned John Joe O'Toole in one comment up until now and know f*ck all about him to be honest. I've seen Garvan and think he looks a class ahead of the two boys (GW&DG). I could be proved wrong. I watch plenty of soccer but don't get to see Whelan and Gibson all that often for obvious reasons.


As a Watford season ticket holder I can confirm he has matured physically and mentally....has scored 7 goals so far and is by far Watford's most attacking weapon.....he'll almost certainly be bought by a Premiership team in January

I was surprised that he wasn't picked in this squad for a "look/see"

http://www.watfordfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/ProfilesDetail/0,,10400~41474,00.html

[Jicked]

Plenty of other people have mentioned O'Toole and Delap, and to be honest if you're throwing the international career of Glenn Whelan away, then you're going to have to replace him with Gibson, Andrews, Delap, O'Toole, Carsley (who wont be around after this season), Reid, Fahey, Garvan and a handful of others you can play at CM instead. The list shortens if you want a particular type of player. So say Whelan is never good enough to play again, which is crazy, and its pretty hard to find a replacement. Carsley, Delap or Andrews. And I'd put Whelan ahead of the lot of them on the back of his performances thus far, and the fact Carsley will retire in May (certainly wont be around to go the WC anyway) and Delap is would be a ridiculous choice.

[eirebhoy]

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.
Garvan isn't an attacking midfielder. He's a playmaker. A guy that takes the ball from defence and gets moves started. Always available for a pass and has a great pass.

O'Toole is getting the goals but he's a very combative player. He'll hassle the opposition all day.

Anyway, I wouldn't have O'Toole in the squad yet as he's still unproven. Garvan is up to it already imo.