Starting XI V Poland

[ifk101]

False Labour or has Mrs Dunne let the Honey Monster comeback?

"It looked as if the defender's expectant wife might have been going into labour, but it now appears that it was a false alarm."

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/1119/ireland.html

[Closed Account]

"It looked as if the defender's expectant wife might have been going into labour, but it now appears that it was a false alarm."

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/1119/ireland.html

Maybe it was some elaborate excuse because some of the other squad members were teasing him about own goals, red cards, weight problems and his follicley challenged clubmates?

[DeLorean]

I think Glenn Whelan is absolutely hopeless from what I've seen so far. I can't understand how he got motm in the first 2 qualifiers. Twas probably cos he was slightly better than what everybody was expecting which wouldn't be difficult. I was at the Georgia game and hardly noticed him to be honest other than the goal which was a crap shot in the first place. He doesn't want the ball and doesn't throw himself about anywhere near enough to make up for that. He has played a combined total of 88 Premier Lge mins for Stoke this season which wouldn't inspire confidence either with what they have to pick from!!!:confused: I'd love to see Owen Garvan get a run, he is playing regularly for Ipswich and has scored a few goals lately. I seen him play in the England u21 qualifier at Turner's Cross and although we were well beaten he looked a very accomplished footballer.

[ifk101]

I think Glenn Whelan is absolutely hopeless from what I've seen so far. I can't understand how he got motm in the first 2 qualifiers. Twas probably cos he was slightly better than what everybody was expecting which wouldn't be difficult. I was at the Georgia game and hardly noticed him to be honest other than the goal which was a crap shot in the first place. He doesn't want the ball and doesn't throw himself about anywhere near enough to make up for that.

OTT and unfair. He hasn't been outstanding by any stretch of the imagination but he is performing the role asked of him.

[DeLorean]

I'm sure that plenty would agree with you but I can't see it myself. The Cyprus game in particular he was worse than useless, it was like he was trying to stay out of the Cypriots way or something. I'm not really blaming him to be honest, it's not his fault he's in the team. Have u an opinion on why he's played so little for Stoke? I know they have immense quality in there like Faye and Diao but even so!!!!! it wouldn't surprise me if he did ok tonight against a half paced Poland but if we qualify for the World Cup with Whelan having played 4 matches in the centre of the park against the Italians and Bulgarians it'll be a minor miracle.

[eirebhoy]

I think Glenn Whelan is absolutely hopeless from what I've seen so far. I can't understand how he got motm in the first 2 qualifiers. Twas probably cos he was slightly better than what everybody was expecting which wouldn't be difficult. I was at the Georgia game and hardly noticed him
Well I can confirm that Whelan was heavily involved in that game. And I certainly didn't imagine that. Goal or no goal Whelan was my motm in that game.

If I was watching the match as a neutral in the pub I wouldn't have remembered Whelan doing much at all. But watching as an Ireland fan and focussing on the game he was absolutely not anonymous. He had a really good game in Georgia.

btw, if you're at an Ireland away game I'd recommend watching a tape of the match when you get home. From being put in corners of stadiums, to being pretty drunk, to singing songs it's very hard to actually make an accurate judgement on a player. Especially someone like Whelan who doesn't do the spectacular.

[eirebhoy]

I'm sure that plenty would agree with you but I can't see it myself. The Cyprus game in particular he was worse than useless, it was like he was trying to stay out of the Cypriots way or something. I'm not really blaming him to be honest, it's not his fault he's in the team. Have u an opinion on why he's played so little for Stoke?
I think the Cyprus game shows exactly why he's not playing for Stoke. Without Steven Reid the team was forced to sit back and let Cyprus dominate a lot of the possession. That's exactly what Stoke do for the most part. Whelan wasn't great. Against Norway (1st half before the floods), Georgia and Montengegro we dominated possession for a lot of it and Whelan thrived in that. He's not bad defensively at all but in terms of simple passes to keep the game ticking over he has been excellent partner for Reid.

Maybe in that sense he is a bit of a luxury player but as I said he isn't bad defensively. Carsley's better though on that score. :)

[third policeman]

Totally agree about Whelan. He is not a Premiership player and he's not an international player either. Trapp defends his selection philosophy on pragmatic grounds. He has taken a look at what we've got, devised a way of playing, decided which players are best suited to it and will stick with this approach in order to get through the qualification process. It seems like a sensible approach and so far the results have been OK even if the performances against Montenegro and Cyprus were less than impressive.

The flaw is simply that he made a fundamental decision about style and personnel on snapshot evidence in the games against Columbia and Serbia and advice from Brady who was gloriously ignorant about our player base outside the Premiership. It's now "too late" to integrate Andy Reid, or introduce players like Garvan, O'Toole, McCann etc who would give us different options in midfield. And I dont think that there is any real will from the management to seek a reconcilliation with the Premiership's most outstanding midfield performer (ie Stephen Ireland!!). Well I hope it works out, but I suspect the wheels will fall off this team before too long. Organisation and motivation will only get us so far and if Cyprus can outplay us at Croker god help us when we face up to Italy and Bulgaria. If we do fall down in these games then we simply do not have a plan B and we dont have players in the squad who can give us anything different.(Does anyone think that the introduction of Keith Andrews, Caleb Folan, Darren Gibson would change the dynamic of an international football match?)

If Poland are really up for it tonight they could make this selection look very inadequate and in the longer term that might not be such a bad thing.

[DeLorean]

Fair enough you're right about not seeing a match properly when at it and I haven't watched it since to be honest. I thought his performance in Montenegro was grossly overrated though. To be fair if we need to dominate possession for Whelan to be effective then he's a waste of space in my book. By the way I hardly watch these matches as a neutral in fairness and I take more than a little interest in how each Irish player is playing, especially the newcomers.

I would agree with Third Policemans analysis of the current situation and I think the lack of a Plan B will ruin us. All we have in the squad is like for like. If Cyprus had got the equaliser they more than deserved in the final few agonising mins in Croker I think Traps support would have collapsed in a big way. I like the fact that he's strong willed and so on but I just can't see this midfield holding up in the long term ie. last 5 or 6 mathches of the group.

[Morbo]

My starting team would be

Given

Foley O'Shea Ledger Kilbane

Duff Andrews Reid/Gibson Hunt

Hunt Doyle

If Reid is match fit I'd start him, if his fitness is as bad as some make out I'd start with Gibson. So far I've seen Whelan play 4 times for Ireland, had 2 good performances and 2 poor ones so he deserves to be in the squad but probably shouldn't be a starter. I'd also like to see how a Hunt/Doyle partnership would work, they may well have a better understanding of each others game than a Keane/Doyle partnership which would give Trap an interesting dilema

[geysir]

False Labour or has Mrs Dunne let the Honey Monster comeback?
I think it was reassuring enough for Mrs Dunne to know that he would drop everything and race to her side.
But what would Richard have said if he was at, say WC South Africa.
You'd hope "tape it up love, I'll catch the recording"

[Polster]

About to leave work, so apologies if someone has already covered this, but I'm amazed that Garvan has been over looked again for a centre mid role, not even in the squad, he's been flying for ipswich for the last 3 years. Gibson and whelan dont have 3 league starts between them. Would like to see Foley to. Surprised also that Daryl Murphy has been dropped from the squad, he was developing nicely, and of course the Reid situation is mad.

How do we know when we might need that type of player in a game, if we are at home playing with two up and struggling for a goal, surely he'd be the man to throw on as an extra creative midfielder, or likewise if away from home and we needed to start with 1 up or switch to just 1 up, again he could be a very useful player to have as the 5th attacking midfielder? The stories coming out from Trap and Brady are crap to be honest, and I feel very sorry for Reid when he has stuck in there and seems to be mad to play.

[DeLorean]

Spot on. Whatever about Reid not fitting into the system at the moment, not being in the squad is an absolute disgrace. I'd love to have a look at Garvan but clearly doing it week in week out for Ipswich isn't as worthwhile as being a Stoke bench warmer. Of course if Garvan did get selected it would be more likely to be ahead of Gibson. Garvan is 6ft as well so Trap isn't leaving him out on those grounds.

[third policeman]

I think that Trapp and Brady have dug a hole for themselves with the midfield selection. The more pressure they come under and the more evidence that there are players outside the squad that might merit selection, the more the greater lengths they will go to justify their original selection approach. Hence dropping Reid, promoting Andrews (a Whelan clone) and suggesting that Ireland wouldn't really fit in with our "style" anyway.

[DeLorean]

One has to hope that if the time comes that Trap feels he might have got this one wrong he will be man enough to call Reid into the squad. I wouldn't count on it though those Italians can be pretty stubborn I'd imagine. What Brady says doesn't matter cos he's obviously in a position where he has to back the manager. I'm sure if he was doing his RTE commentary he'd be calling for Reids inclusion like everybody else.

[Jicked]

One has to hope that if the time comes that Trap feels he might have got this one wrong he will be man enough to call Reid into the squad.

We are yet to play a single game without Reid in the squad. What you write is amazingly over the top.

[DeLorean]

Maybe...but I get the feeling tonights exclusion might be a sign of things to come wouldn't u say? why would he leave him out otherwise?

[Jicked]

Yes, it may be a sign of things to come. But who'se to say that's a bad thing, what if we win consistently without him? At least let it play out before you start talking about Trap having to swallow his pride and finally call back up a player who'se been gone for a grand total of 1 game thus far.

[third policeman]

Trapp had previously suggested that Reid's role could be as an alternative to Robbie playing behind Doyle. So Robbie pulls out and Reid is not recalled. This would have been the near perfect opportunity to try him out in this role, but instead we will witness the international debut of a player who was off loaded by Wigan after failing to make an impact in the premiership and now cant get a game for Hull either.

We are a small nation who are currently squandering our limited playing resources through what appears to be managerial stubborness.

[Jicked]

Trapp had previously suggested that Reid's role could be as an alternative to Robbie playing behind Doyle. So Robbie pulls out and Reid is not recalled. This would have been the near perfect opportunity to try him out in this role, but instead we will witness the international debut of a player who was off loaded by Wigan after failing to make an impact in the premiership and now cant get a game for Hull either.

We are a small nation who are currently squandering our limited playing resources through what appears to be managerial stubborness.


So on one hand Trap shouldn't be picking Folan because he was sold by Wigan and plays for Hull, but on the other hand he should play Foley, Bruce, Delaney et al so he can take a look at them in case we get an injury?

[DeLorean]

"Yes, it may be a sign of things to come. But who'se to say that's a bad thing, what if we win consistently without him? At least let it play out before you start talking about Trap having to swallow his pride and finally call back up a player who'se been gone for a grand total of 1 game thus far. "

Ah come on now with your grand total of one game crap, u know it runs much deeper than Trap just leaving out Reid for one match as if he's been using him all along. And if Reids exclusion continues to mean an automatic start for the likes of Whelan then Yes, I'm afraid it is a bad thing!!! The results only tell half a story and lets face it they haven't been all that great either. The manner in which we held out against Cyprus resembled Munsters heroics against the Worlds elite last night, the draw in Montenegro can only be described as 2 points wasted and fortunate it wasn't three at times and a scraped win over Georgia at a very favourable 'neutral' venue.

[Jicked]

Well you must watch a different game to me. You're being far, far too negative about how we've started this campaign when you consider where we were.
For the last few campaigns I've watched us get nowhere in a midfield that is constantly overrun that has always featured Andy Reid. Now we decide to make an incredible step of dropping a bloke who often sits on Sunderland's bench, in order to put a system and a style of player which Reid simply isnt first, and we start picking up a few results.

We've tried playing Reid in previous campaigns, it hasn't worked. We've been overrun, he's often failed to produce and our midfield has been a big problem for years now. Why don't we try playing a well regimented, often defensive, system. Let's see how we get on.