Des Cahill Drivetime Sport

[monutdfc]

Special on the League of Ireland this evening, 6.30-7pm

[Rovers1]

any ideas who guests are??

and please dont say Roddy Collins!

[gordongekko]

any ideas who guests are??

and please dont say Roddy Collins!


Its Fran Gavin and Emmet Malone

gg

[SwanVsDalton]

Emmett Malone = Pineapple Stu in disguise?

[SunnySweeney]

* finances went wrong when clubs got caught up in the celtic tiger and challenging for Europe

* core problem is a lack of attendances

* the revenue is actually bankrolling certain clubs (eg Cork City)

* facilities not as good as GAA

* on a positive note the quality of football has improved dramatically

- next up Steve Mc Guinness (players Union)

greetings from New York btw

[Rovers1]

Drogs only got 20% wages last week...

im delighted for ya Doolin!! :D

[SunnySweeney]

Steve McGuiness

* not the players fault (clubs finding loopholes to bypass wage guidelines)

* players just simply negotiating as much as the market will allow

* league is in meltdown / players aren't being paid / clubs should be sanctioned and have their licenses withdrawn / a lot of players will go to the UK next year

[Rovers Maniac]

Emmet Malone knows all but knows nothing at the same time. Having a go at clubs on one hand then making out that European results are paramount on the other hand to the future of the league.

[Founders]

Fran Gavin is an idiot,without doubt he does not know what he is doing:(.

[Rovers Maniac]

Fran Gavin is an idiot,without doubt he does not know what he is doing:(.

Yes i agree with that actually i thought the Shels guy spoke well enough.
The bottom line is we need to get better crowds, thats it.

[superfrank]

...and clubs need to stop spending/promising money they don't have.

[Dodge]

Emmet Malone knows all but knows nothing at the same time. Having a go at clubs on one hand then making out that European results are paramount on the other hand to the future of the league.

yep, flip flopped about players wages helping the clubs improve and then forcing clubs under too

[LukeO]

Drogs only got 20% wages last week...

im delighted for ya Doolin!! :D

Delighted for the players who have to pay mortgages too? That's nice of you...

[bellavistaman]

* league is in meltdown / players aren't being paid / clubs should be sanctioned and have their licenses withdrawn / a lot of players will go to the UK next year

McGuiness is a grade a tosspot IMO, i reckon being brutally honest there are only a handful that could make it in "the uk" next year. Off with them too if it means stabilising the league.

[Paddyfield]

McGuiness is a grade a tosspot IMO, i reckon being brutally honest there are only a handful that could make it in "the uk" next year. Off with them too if it means stabilising the league.

There will be a lot of players in the UK who will be looking to join clubs here.

[SMorgan]

So Emmit Malone reckons that the P1 All-Ireland was a solution to the problems in Irish football.

I despair!!

The P1 proposal was hair-brained and an idea that should have been disposed of a hell of a lot sooner than it was.

[Founders]

McGuiness is a grade a tosspot IMO, i reckon being brutally honest there are only a handful that could make it in "the uk" next year. Off with them too if it means stabilising the league.

Fully agree he is a w@nker.

[bellavistaman]

There will be a lot of players in the UK who will be looking to join clubs here.

For money reasons or what, this year has proven we cannot afford to pay out big wages. Even the big clubs, like Drogs and city proved it. If there going to come and play here couple of hundred so be it but i cant see that happening

[gael353]

McGuiness is a grade a tosspot IMO, i reckon being brutally honest there are only a handful that could make it in "the uk" next year. Off with them too if it means stabilising the league.


and guess whos the biggest agent in ireland? yep stevie McGuiness. He goes around finding out what talent is not in contract and touts them to other clubs. players rep my arse

[Rocky77]

and guess whos the biggest agent in ireland? yep stevie McGuiness. He goes around finding out what talent is not in contract and touts them to other clubs. players rep my arse

He's also able to double up his agent work with sitting on tribunals that decide the careers of his clients. I'm hazey on the details but Stephen Paisley would be able to tell you more...

[RonnieB]

He surely would, tosser of the highest order.

[Dodge]

and guess whos the biggest agent in ireland? yep stevie McGuiness. He goes around finding out what talent is not in contract and touts them to other clubs. players rep my arse

ISn't finding the players job something they'd want?

[A face]

McGuiness is a grade a tosspot IMO, i reckon being brutally honest there are only a handful that could make it in "the uk" next year. Off with them too if it means stabilising the league.

Exactly, as if going to the UK is going to make club risk going to the wall so we can pay players inflated wages. I'd put under 12s out to spite him if thats his line


The P1 proposal was hair-brained and an idea that should have been disposed of a hell of a lot sooner than it was.

If it did anything to shake up the FAI then it was a good thing.


He's also able to double up his agent work with sitting on tribunals that decide the careers of his clients. I'm hazey on the details but Stephen Paisley would be able to tell you more...

I thank god that happened because we found out exactly what we were dealing with. It was so brazen and void of conscience it helped to highlight where the people involved wouldn't draw the line. No wool left for the eyes now.


ISn't finding the players job something they'd want?

Yeah, cos thats all he is at :rolleyes:

[Buile Shuibhne]

Yes i agree with that actually i thought the Shels guy spoke well enough.
The bottom line is we need to get better crowds, thats it.


Who was the Shels guy?

[Macy]

players rep my arse
So what you, and others, are saying is that the players union official is working in the best interests of the, eh, players, and that's a bad thing?

The players and the player reps aren't the problem, it's the stupid clubs that agree to pay stupid wages that they can't meet that's the issue. As Longford fan I can moan all I want about how the Paiso situation developed, but bottom line is if we'd paid his wages on time and in full there would've been sod all McGuinness could have manipulated.

If you're looking for people to blame, look to the people that continually stirred up the need for full time football and the importance of European results when it wasn't sustainable.

[A face]

Who was the Shels guy?

Cintan Fassidy?

[Dodge]

Who was the Shels guy?

Not sure but he was a former business reporter for Sunday indo.

EDIT; name below

[BohDiddley]

Who was the Shels guy?
Martin Fitzpatrick.

[A face]

The players and the player reps aren't the problem, it's the stupid clubs that agree to pay stupid wages that they can't meet that's the issue. As Longford fan I can moan all I want about how the Paiso situation developed, but bottom line is if we'd paid his wages on time and in full there would've been sod all McGuinness could have manipulated.

Yeah, its not the criminals fault the house was ransacked of all its goods, burnt to the ground with all the family in it, its the home owners fault for not locking the front door. Yeah i hear ya man, nice logic going on there, fair play to ya.


If you're looking for people to blame, look to the people that continually stirred up the need for full time football and the importance of European results when it wasn't sustainable.

Ambition, such a dangerous thing, we should stamp it out at all costs. thats our biggest worry, its got nothing to do with bad management of clubs.


When clubs are run properly for a sustained period of time and it then doesn't work then i'll admit defeat, until then your statement isn't worth a toss.

[JC_GUFC]

So what you, and others, are saying is that the players union official is working in the best interests of the, eh, players, and that's a bad thing?

The players and the player reps aren't the problem, it's the stupid clubs that agree to pay stupid wages that they can't meet that's the issue. As Longford fan I can moan all I want about how the Paiso situation developed, but bottom line is if we'd paid his wages on time and in full there would've been sod all McGuinness could have manipulated.

If you're looking for people to blame, look to the people that continually stirred up the need for full time football and the importance of European results when it wasn't sustainable.

Totally agree,
As much as I don't like McGuinness and the PFAI they are the players' union and going to defend the actions of the players.

As Stephen Henderson said on MNS there's no other job in the country where you'd turn up for work one day and be told that your wages have been cut by 70% - it's totally illegal.

What needs to be done is that when players' contracts are being renewed that they're offered something that can realistically be paid - be it €300 a week for someone who was on €1000 a week or €1000 a week for someone who was on €2500 a week. You'll get the mercenaries like Stuey Byrne complaining but at the moment no club has money so he'll just have to go with the club who offers his most but Bohs or Pat's or whoever it is can't sign every player in the league.
Saying that all players will go to England is a total joke. There are only a handful of players in the league who English clubs would be interested in. All the lower league clubs are as ****ed as we are over here so anyone who thinks that MK Dons are going to be battering down Drogheda's door to sign Shane Robinson or the likes is living on another planet.

In the long run this will prove to be good for the league. Again to be fair to the FAI they brought in the 65% rule for precisely this reason. For whatever reason it doesn't appear to have been enforced but the fact that all this **** is coming out is at least partially down to that.

It's going to be the most interesting close season in quite a while...

[Dodge]

Yeah, its not the criminals fault the house was ransacked of all its goods, burnt to the ground with all the family in it, its the home owners fault for not locking the front door. Yeah i hear ya man, nice logic going on there, fair play to ya. Worst analogy ever.





Saying that all players will go to England is a total joke. There are only a handful of players in the league who English clubs would be interested in.
There are a fair amount of players under the age of 25 who could earn more at league one, league two level than they do in Ireland. I agree that there won't be huge amounts moving but there certainly will be some movement

BTW I think Fran Gavin is a tool and the worst case of union rep turning management I've seen in years, howver he carried himself pretty well last night.

[JC_GUFC]

Worst analogy ever.




There are a fair amount of players under the age of 25 who could earn more at league one, league two level than they do in Ireland. I agree that there won't be huge amounts moving but there certainly will be some movement


They definitely could earn more over there but unless they're among the top players in the league I don't think that English clubs would be falling over themselves to buy some player with 4 years LOI experience.

How many of the Pat's squad could you realistically see playing in England next season? Fahey & Quigley. Dempsey could for sure but who knows what will happen to him now. Do you think anyone would look to bring back O'Cearuill, Gavin or Partridge? Ryan Guy, Derek O'Brien, Gary O'Neill? I don't think so.

[Macy]

BTW I think Fran Gavin is a tool and the worst case of union rep turning management I've seen in years, howver he carried himself pretty well last night.
Just to clarify I was talking about McGuiness, not Gavin (who's nothing but a scab).


Yeah, its not the criminals fault the house was ransacked of all its goods, burnt to the ground with all the family in it, its the home owners fault for not locking the front door. Yeah i hear ya man, nice logic going on there, fair play to ya.
But your analogy would only ring true if the house owner had given the criminal the keys and alarm code, tied up his family, poured petrol around the place and given him the matches.


Ambition, such a dangerous thing, we should stamp it out at all costs. thats our biggest worry, its got nothing to do with bad management of clubs.


When clubs are run properly for a sustained period of time and it then doesn't work then i'll admit defeat, until then your statement isn't worth a toss.
But clubs haven't been doing it properly. Being spurred on by "speculate to accumulate" and "if we do well in Europe the crowds and money will come" nonsense talked by the likes of Collins and Rico is what has clubs in this position. The Ambition isn't the problem; it's the idiotic pursuit that's the issue.

[geysir]

Nothing wrong with ambition built on a structure
It's not just about "bums on seats" as the Shels man Fitzpatrick remarked.

[micls]

Being spurred on by "speculate to accumulate" and "if we do well in Europe the crowds and money will come" nonsense talked by the likes of Collins and Rico is what has clubs in this position. .

While Rico certainly a proponent of doing well in Europe,he was not asking that it be done at the risk of the clubs finances....hecne him being sacked.

[Dodge]

It's not just about "bums on seats" as the Shels man Fitzpatrick remarked.

Its the root cause of most of them though. IF we had people bursting through the gates, a huge majority of our problems would be fixed.

Obviously some clubs would still overspend...

[pineapple stu]

There are a fair amount of players under the age of 25 who could earn more at league one, league two level than they do in Ireland. I agree that there won't be huge amounts moving but there certainly will be some movement

How are you defining "some movement", out of interest's sake? I could see 20-25 players moving abroad (doesn't have to be England, as Zayed and the other Drogheda lad are showing). It's not huge, but it is two teams' worth. Given a lot of the players will be free transfers (80% of the league out of contract, possibly as much as 50% of the league not being paid in full), it'd make transfers much easier. If the likes of Conor Sammon can get a team in the SPL, or John O'Flynn can get a team in England despite his lengthy injury problems, I'd say there'll be a decent bit of interest over the winter.

[brianw82]

How are you defining "some movement", out of interest's sake? I could see 20-25 players moving abroad (doesn't have to be England, as Zayed and the other Drogheda lad are showing). It's not huge, but it is two teams' worth. Given a lot of the players will be free transfers (80% of the league out of contract, possibly as much as 50% of the league not being paid in full), it'd make transfers much easier. If the likes of Conor Sammon can get a team in the SPL, or John O'Flynn can get a team in England despite his lengthy injury problems, I'd say there'll be a decent bit of interest over the winter.

And what's the problem with these overpaid players leaving? As that Cork fan said on the primetime special, if these guys want to earn 2grand a week, let them go. We won't miss them. Hell, I'll help them carry their bags to the airport! There'll be others to replace them.

Look at Galway, for instance. They lost a load of players, but what they have now is cheaper and BETTER than what they had before. How much are Derry missing Paddy McCourt? Not much, with McGinn doing so well. The league will find a new star to replace Fahey next year, and a new hotshot will make us all say, 'Who was Dave Mooney?'

[pineapple stu]

100% agree with you about Galway. Don't think it'll hold with, for example, the entire Drogheda team leaving for England - the league would be poorer for that. With all the financial problems this season, I can't see many experienced players coming into the league; it'll mainly be youngsters.

[WoodquayBoy]

And that will give nthe league a chance to start afresh again. Again!

[mediahack]

There are a number of issues here.....

The players have been operating in an area that turned a blind eye to tax, PRSI and the like and now that the clubs have been brought to task over it, the inflated wages have become a problem. There is no job where you go in and ask for €x per week and expect that your pay packet will have €x in it each week! This has pushed wage costs through the roof for clubs.

Like to overhyped property market, there will be a levelling off and more realistic wages will be paid next season. The players rep can yell all he wants about players going to Uk or wherever but the reality is the majority of the players will be in the eircom league next March!

One other interesting aspect of the wages debate is that the players have demanded and gotten gross wages over the years. The tax has been paid by the clubs, yet when the players retire they can reclaim the tax they(???) paid for the 10 best years of their career!

Bet you won't see many of them handing that money back to the clubs as they didn't actually earn it!

[Dodge]

Not strictly true. The players always had a gross and net amount. Just because they negotiated in net, doesn't mean they didn't have a gross figure.

Thankfully some clubs have now stopped this ludicrous anomoly

[mediahack]

Not strictly true. The players always had a gross and net amount. Just because they negotiated in net, doesn't mean they didn't have a gross figure.

Thankfully some clubs have now stopped this ludicrous anomoly

So if I was earning €100 per week did my P60 read €5200 earnings or the €8000ish earnings if tax and PRSI was paid!

Player power forced many clubs to continue to pay that way but as you have said nearly all clubs now pay wages in the normal way.

[pineapple stu]

You'd probably be lucky if you got a P60.

And he didn't say "nearly all clubs now pay wages in the normal way."

[Macy]

It was a few years ago that the standard contract came in, and gross contracts. It was back when Rovers were in examinership, with the revenue got stung, that the clamp down on "expenses" happened. I wouldn't think that's relevant to the current difficulties or the wage spiral tbh. Wages have continued to spiral since wages were regularised in a tax sense.