Lack of Talent

[finlma]

In the aftermath of the Swiss debacle I've had a think about the talent at Brian Kerr's disposal and I must say I feel sorry for him. We have only 4 players who are an asset to the team: Given, Carr, O'Shea and Duff. We're devoid of any skill in other departments. Robbie Keane is hugely over-rated and is definately not world class. The worrying thing is that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of talent coming through. Miller, Thornton, A.Reid, etc could make it but that still won't do a lot. We've no central defenders worth wearing the green jersey. Sorry to be so negative but the future doesn't look that bright for Irish soccer.

[pete]

Originally posted by finlma
We have only 4 players who are an asset to the team: Given, Carr, O'Shea and Duff. We're devoid of any skill in other departments. Robbie Keane is hugely over-rated and is definately not world class.

Hmmm strange statement wheh you compare Robbie Keanes irish performances against O'Sheas. Sure O'Shea got potemtial but thats all it is now. Keane (16-17 goals or something in 40-45 games?) almost has a good scoring record for Ireland as Owen has for England.

:rolleyes:

btw world-class is a over used term & should really be only 10 or so world-class players.

[macdermesser]

Finnan is class too .. probably better form than Carr at the moment. .. They should be both accomodated in someway ...
Most successful teams have a few star players and then grafters, and have the right mix between youth and experience. We are blessed with some top players .. even just four or five is enough to build a team around. . ..

And after Andy Reid scoring another cracker last night ... it might not be long before he's in the same bracket as Duff and co.

[colster]

I find it amazing when people say we don't have a talented squad. What are people measuring this group of players against. A world XI or something.

I like to think of it in these terms.
How many would have been capped by the top European nations .
If it were England I think that Finnan, Carr, O'Shea, Given, Duff and Keane would all have caps for England. Given and Duff would be 1st team regulars. Keane would probably take Vassell's place on the bench. Carr would be a serious contender for G.Neville's place.
Finnan and O'Shea would be considered for a squad place.

I think out of the top nations France, Spain and Italy only Duff would be a certainty to have caps.
Given, Finnan, Carr and O'Shea would have no chance if they were Italian or Spanish. With France Carr might get a look in as would Keane.
I don't know about Given.

Germany we would probably have a similar representation as we would with the English.

All of these teams are top 10 nations.
I think it's a good sign that some of our squad would be in contention for their squads.

In other words we have a solid base to work from.

[finlma]

I'm measuring it against our performance in the Euro 2004 qualifiers. We didn't even come close to qualifying from a group with Switzerland and Russia. We were outclassed by these 2 teams who aren't even that good.
People have said you only need a few quality players and grafters. Then why didn't we qualify? We have a few quality players surrounded by rubbish players.
Compare us to any team in the world but the only true evaluation of a team can be on the results and we haven't had them.

[colster]

Originally posted by finlma
I'm measuring it against our performance in the Euro 2004 qualifiers. We didn't even come close to qualifying from a group with Switzerland and Russia. We were outclassed by these 2 teams who aren't even that good.
People have said you only need a few quality players and grafters. Then why didn't we qualify? We have a few quality players surrounded by rubbish players.
Compare us to any team in the world but the only true evaluation of a team can be on the results and we haven't had them.

You can't measure a lack of talent on the results of the qualifiers.
It was as much to do with a lack of form than a lack of talent.
We lost a lot of good players to retirement. Were quite unlucky with injuries to Reid, Morrisson, Delap and Sadlier at certain stages.

Even then we went to the last game. So you can' say we didn't come close.

I'm not saying that everything is rosy. There are things to be sorted out. The silver lining is that we do have options. There are players coming through. Liam Miller, Andy Reid, Sean Thornton could give the squad the spark it needs.

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by finlma
I'm measuring it against our performance in the Euro 2004 qualifiers. We didn't even come close to qualifying from a group with Switzerland and Russia. We were outclassed by these 2 teams who aren't even that good.
People have said you only need a few quality players and grafters. Then why didn't we qualify? We have a few quality players surrounded by rubbish players.
Compare us to any team in the world but the only true evaluation of a team can be on the results and we haven't had them.

Apply your theory to 2002. We're better then France, Portugal and Argentina. Not bad I reckon. We also drew with Spain bringing them to penaltys, so we're at least equal to them.

[gustavo]

i dont think at any point in the four games against them two teams were we outclassed. we were outplayed and outfought but not out class , most of the players need to buck up their ideas and not use the national team as a holiday and think they can get away with playing a few gears below normal.

[finlma]

I believe we were outclassed by Switzerland. In both games they really looked like a classier team more capable of creating openings. Now I don't know whether thats because we lack the skill or lack passion or lack proper management. I have great faith in Brian Kerr and I never doubt someone in a green jersey not to give 100%. I think that we just don't have the players. There are way too many pieces of dead wood in the squad: Breen, Holland, Kinsella, Harte. There are also some players who are not good enough to play international football: Reid, Healy, Connolly, Morrison.
I really hope that Andy Reid, Sean Thornton and Liam Miller prove their worth cause they do look really promising. We need some young defenders to start showing through because we are so badly off for centre backs.
Sorry for the negativity, probably a bit dispondant that my tickets for next summer are gone to waste and I don't have a chance of a major championship until 2006.

[John83]

Originally posted by finlma
Compare us to any team in the world but the only true evaluation of a team can be on the results and we haven't had them.

You want results?

The FIFA rankings are based entirely on results, and they say that we're one of the top 15 sides on the planet.

Some people just like it when the glass is half empty. :rolleyes:

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by finlma
iI believe we were outclassed by Switzerland. In both games they really looked like a classier team more capable of creating openings. Now I don't know whether thats because we lack the skill or lack passion or lack proper management. I have great faith in Brian Kerr and I never doubt someone in a green jersey not to give 100%. I think that we just don't have the players. There are way too many pieces of dead wood in the squad: Breen, Holland, Kinsella, Harte. There are also some players who are not good enough to play international football: Reid, Healy, Connolly, Morrison.
I really hope that Andy Reid, Sean Thornton and Liam Miller prove their worth cause they do look really promising. We need some young defenders to start showing through because we are so badly off for centre backs.
Sorry for the negativity, probably a bit dispondant that my tickets for next summer are gone to waste and I don't have a chance of a major championship until 2006.

13 caps, 3 starts, 5 goals. Morrison not good enough to play international football my arse. As for Breen, he's not dead wood, You can't fault his preformances for us recently at all and ask any Sunderland fan and they'll tellyou he's bang on form for them right now too.

This belief that we don't have the players and Kerr only has inherited one or two good players is complete rubbish. The fact is in Given, Finnan, Carr, Cunningham, O'Shea, Duff and Keane we've players who'd get into most international sides around. Combine those with some of the most exciting youngsters we've had since those two in Reid, Miller and a few others including Thornton and James O'Connor with players who are capable of playing at this level in Healy, Delap, Morrison, O'Brien and Breen and decently average cover in Kavanagh, Carsley, Holland and even Connolly and I don't see how anyone can say our players aren't good enough.

We've not preformed, fair enough, but do you not remember 2002 qualifying? Think of Holland, they didn't make the play offs in our group either, didn't make their players shíte, it just meant that, like us, they had a bad patch and didn't play well through the qualifyers, it happens.

Compare the side we can put out now to the one we could put out from our world cup 22, in my view the current one is a far more impressive one. Despite what the doom and gloom merchants want to believe we have the players and if Kerr is any sort of manager they'll be playng to their potential come september 2004 and we'll all be headed to Germany.