derry & Cliftonville

[Duncan Gardner]

Originally posted by ghosty
Very True, we do dispise Linfield more than any other club, Portadown are a very close 2nd though and the Crues, well no gives a **** about them to be honest.


Certainly not the three cars making up the wee reds' typical away support :)

[TommyT]

Originally posted by Shed End John
No they would NOT. When Cliftonville won the League a few years back they beat Linfield 1-0 at Windsor Park in a crunch game. When they scored all the Cliftonville fans went mad and stuck their fingers up at the Linfield fans, while the players let the Linfield Kop know what it meant in no uncertain terms.
Also, both clubs banned away fans at their meetings up until about 8-10 years ago; and there was so much violence at one Linfield-Cliftonville game that Cliftonville had to play 'home' games against Linfield at Windsor for a good number of years.

If ghosty drops back in he could confirm this but I thought Cliftonville lost their crunch match at Windsor that season (second last game) with Glen Ferguson scoring a belter from outside the box. I was at the game, I can't have been that ****ed.

Away fans have never been banned at the fixture, though Cliftonville fans were the only fans in the IL not allowed any seats at Windsor for a long period of time. Banning Linfield fans from Solitude for their antics on their way home from a game not against Cliftonville would've been a lot fairer, than banning Cliftonville from playing home games against Linfield on their home ground.

[TommyT]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
They have a very different history to Belfast Celtic. The Reds were originally a mainly Protestant amateur club up until the 1970's. It was only demographic changes during the troubles that changed this.

I don't think Cliftonville would like to lose their identity in a merged club.



I think too much is made of the Reds past ''unionism''. They were and are a ''non-sectarian'' club but it should be remembered that the first president of the FAI was a Cliftonville man and in the 50s they played their 75th anninversary gameagainst Glasgow Celtic.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by TommyT
I think too much is made of the Reds past ''unionism''. They were and are a ''non-sectarian'' club but it should be remembered that the first president of the FAI was a Cliftonville man and in the 50s they played their 75th anninversary gameagainst Glasgow Celtic.

Cliftonville were founded in 1879 as an almost entirely protestant middle class amateur club. The founder James McAlery was inspired by Scottish amateurs Queen's Park the original anti-catholic club in Glasgow before Rangers. Demographic changes in the 1970's saw protestants moving out and Catholics moving in. Cliftonville also became professional attracting more support, most of it Catholic.

I remember reading somewhere too about crowd trouble between Cliftonville and Belfast Celtic supporters in the 1900's. Glasgow Celtic would have been more acceptable visitors to Belfast back in 1954 because it was before the troubles and also the famous Bertie Peacock, a protestant from Coleraine was playing for them at the time.

There is also a hockey club called Cliftonville who moved from the area to a protestant area. I read that local youths burned down the clubhouse because of "nationalist" associatons with the Cliftonvile name.

[gspain]

Originally posted by TommyT
I think too much is made of the Reds past ''unionism''. They were and are a ''non-sectarian'' club but it should be remembered that the first president of the FAI was a Cliftonville man and in the 50s they played their 75th anninversary gameagainst Glasgow Celtic.

Agreed. there is far too much made of unionist/nationist clubs. football is watched and played by both comminities in NI and in many cases they follow the same clubs. No club practises sectarian policies now and only one probably ever did.

Cliftonville were an amateur club with a small (mainly protestant support) until the late 60's when the demographics in north Belfast changed.

Cliftonville did play Celtic in 54/5 although I wasn't aware that it was their 75th anniversary celebration and I do have the programme at home and don't recall seeing it on the programme but that means nothing. BTW a Peter Doherty Coleraine/Crusaders select met Celtic twice in the 50's too.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by gspain
BTW a Peter Doherty Coleraine/Crusaders select met Celtic twice in the 50's too.

Wasn't Peter Doherty a Catholic? He was the successful manager of NI before Billy Bingham.

Celtic players have certainly been more prominent than Rangers in Northern Ireland sides. Celtic players to play for NI include Charlie Tully, Bertie Peacock, Anton Rogan and Neil Lennon.

[ghosty]

Linfield beat us 3 -0 to move within 4 points with 2 games to go.

We were not allowed to use the North Stand for years even though 2 of the games at Windsor were supposed to be our 'Home' games. We went to windsor that year and had 3 1-0 victories. Our last home game against Glentoran was made to kick off 1 hour earlier than Linfields away game with Coleraine....wonder why that was:rolleyes:

Anyway we drew 1-1 and a Wesley Lamont inspired Coleraine held the blues to a 0-0 draw for us to win the league with a game to spare. Ironically Wesley lamont was an ex Linfield keeper, so how good was that.:D


Oh and Duncan i'd look at your own travelling support b4 you slag anyone else about theirs.

[gspain]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
Wasn't Peter Doherty a Catholic? He was the successful manager of NI before Billy Bingham.

Celtic players have certainly been more prominent than Rangers in Northern Ireland sides. Celtic players to play for NI include Charlie Tully, Bertie Peacock, Anton Rogan and Neil Lennon.

I believe Peter Doherty was protestant but I don't think discussing a player's religion is particularly relevant.

Plenty of players from NI have worn the light blue of Rangers

Among them

Bertie Manderson made over 450 appearances between the wars. - Began his career at Cliftonville btw and also played for Belfast Celtic.

Sam English probably best remembered for the tragic accidental death of John Thomson. He was also capped for Ireland on a few occasions.

Bily Simpson was a legend in the 50's former Linfield great too - missed the 58 world cup due to injury.

John McClelland and Jimmy Nicholl in more recent times and I think Lee Feeney also made the first team.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by gspain
I believe Peter Doherty was protestant but I don't think discussing a player's religion is particularly relevant.


In Martin O'Neill's biography Terry Neill is quoted as saying that Peter Doherty was Catholic. While normally this wouldn't be relevant, I think it is in the context of Northern Ireland where there are allegations of anti-catholicism.

I keep hearing for instance from Celtic fans that Martin O'Neill was the first Catholic to captain Northern Ireland. Also, I read in Celtic fanzine "the Alternative View" that Bertie Peacock and Charlie Tully were booed by Northern Ireland fans constantly. But Peacock in an interview in the Celtic View said he never had any trouble playing for NI.

[Duncan Gardner]

Lighten up, Ghosty. I was merely replying to your quip that no-one gives a f*** about Crusaders.

[lopez]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
In Martin O'Neill's biography Terry Neill is quoted as saying that Peter Doherty was Catholic. While normally this wouldn't be relevant, I think it is in the context of Northern Ireland where there are allegations of anti-catholicism.

I keep hearing for instance from Celtic fans that Martin O'Neill was the first Catholic to captain Northern Ireland. Also, I read in Celtic fanzine "the Alternative View" that Bertie Peacock and Charlie Tully were booed by Northern Ireland fans constantly. But Peacock in an interview in the Celtic View said he never had any trouble playing for NI.
Oddly enough, the IFA have quite a good record of steering clear of discrimination. Remember that in the 1950's, Stormont UP MPs were proud of claiming that they or someone they knew just employed true - blue Protestants (and presumably got rid of the rotten ones that either fancied a 32 independent state or were keen to stand up for RC rights like trade unionists). The IFA to their credit continued to pick RCs when it would have not only looked normal, but gained them favour by not.

However, picking RCs is one thing. Look at all those black basketball players in the US, but where are they when it comes to jobs in running the club or the leagues. The IFA have had RC administrators, in particular Austin Donnelly. However the IL fares more poorly in this department: delaying kick off times and granting home advantage to a certain club as well as matters concerning Belfast Celtic, Derry City and the admission of the two other Celtic clubs to the league a few years ago. All the above have in common religion/ethnicity at their heart which cannot be glossed over as irrelevant.

[Duncan Gardner]

Originally posted by lopez
However the IL fares more poorly in this department: delaying kick off times and granting home advantage to a certain club as well as matters concerning Belfast Celtic, Derry City and the admission of the two other Celtic clubs to the league a few years ago. All the above have in common religion/ethnicity at their heart which cannot be glossed over as irrelevant.

Lopez, no-one's saying they weren't relevant. But the first two examples you quote are rather less relevant than they were 50 and 30 years ago, eh?

Donegal and Lurgan Celtics are in the IL on merit. I agree their admission was delayed a couple of seasons longer than it might have been. Security worries or old-fashioned bigotry? A bit of both, probably...

[TommyT]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Security worries or old-fashioned bigotry? A bit of both, probably...

The fact that they backed down the second they were threatened with being brought to the equality commission would suggest more of the latter though.

[ghosty]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Lopez, no-one's saying they weren't relevant. But the first two examples you quote are rather less relevant than they were 50 and 30 years ago, eh?

Donegal and Lurgan Celtics are in the IL on merit. I agree their admission was delayed a couple of seasons longer than it might have been. Security worries or old-fashioned bigotry? A bit of both, probably...

Actually Lurgan and Donegal Celtic are in the Irish League because they were ready to bring the IL to court, the IL lawyers knew fine rightly that they had such a strong case for inclusion in the League that they allowed them entry after 15 years of trying.

I'd go along with the Old fashioned bigotry as the main reason, the thought of teams with Green and White hoops must've sicken the billy boys at the IL.:rolleyes:

[Duncan Gardner]

Aye that's right, the IFA is dominated by Billy Boys. Which might explain the manager, assistant manager and about half the squad being Roman Catholics.

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Aye that's right, the IFA is dominated by Billy Boys. Which might explain the manager, assistant manager and about half the squad being Roman Catholics.
We're talking about the Irish League. Different body, no?

[Duncan Gardner]

As in other countries the Irish League is a member of the Irish Football Association.

I'd argue that neither body is particularly sectarian, though I realise that some in the Suffolk/ Lurgan areas may differ.

Lopez- if you're reading this I'm back on the curry. Lasted 23 days though, to be fair...

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Lopez- if you're reading this I'm back on the curry. Lasted 23 days though, to be fair...
Tut, tut, tut. Make your own with plenty of spinach and tomatoes with Pataks curry pastes. Good for the prostrate and quite low in calories. Stay away from the nan breads as well.

[lopez]

Originally posted by davros
Managed the fat Gatt.special;Prawn Biriyani(with rice),Poppadoms,Naan bread & about 1/3 of lamb kashmiri......Fat F***!
Take it you were with him you little fat Buddha.:D

[Duncan Gardner]

Mr Davros appears to confuse my ordering a second course in an Indian restaurant with an opinion on the political situation in 1981. I thing he must be drunk, confused, or both.

[ghosty]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Aye that's right, the IFA is dominated by Billy Boys. Which might explain the manager, assistant manager and about half the squad being Roman Catholics.

Sammy mc Ilroy isn't a RC, not that that matters to be fair, the assistant manager i couldn't tell you who he was, nevermind what religion he is. As for the RC that play for the North, well lets be honest none if them would get into the ROI side, hence the reason they throw their lot in with the North.

[BannsideBoy]

you really are a *****, i have never heard such narrow minded drivel in all my life.

[Duncan Gardner]

Originally posted by ghosty
Sammy mc Ilroy isn't a RC, not that that matters to be fair, the assistant manager i couldn't tell you who he was, nevermind what religion he is. As for the RC that play for the North, well lets be honest none if them would get into the ROI side, hence the reason they throw their lot in with the North.

Yawn. The reason they get in the Northern Ireland side is generally because they grew up there and played for schools and youth representative sides. Damian Johnson would get in the Southern side at the moment while your squad includes so many platers from Division 1. Mulryne and McVeigh would probably be in the 22 and Michael Hughes- even after missing a season and in his mid-30s- is on a par with McAteer. Lennon would have 50 Southern caps had he declared for you.

Ghosty's only half right. It doesn't matter what religion the managers, players or even the supporters are. But you are actually at one with many of the NI fans in exaggerating this a factor. And don't pretend you didn't know about Gerry Armstrong's appointment- even the IN and Andytown News covered it :)

Davros. The Alliance Party's lawyers are on yer case...

[BannsideBoy]

Originally posted by davros
Ah,the truth hurts..........

:o , your biggoted slabbering couldn't be farther from the truth.

i don't know what cause you think you are standing up for, but most of us in the 21st century have moved on since William III and king James. There is no need for 15th century politics in football in this millenium. Seems some dinosaurs didn't become extinct.;)

[liam88]

Originally posted by BannsideBoy
most of us in the 21st century have moved on since William III and king James.
As proved by "Twelth" :rolleyes:

[lopez]

Originally posted by liam88
As proved by "Twelth" :rolleyes:
BB does have a point. 100,000 membership of the OO seems staggering but this is only 10% of the unionist population. This doesn't take away from the illegality of the NI statelet, the electoral discrimination within its first fifty years of existence, the extreme nationalism still present and the fact that the military victory of a closet Dutch shirtlifter over his poor wife's father outside the O6C is still a 'national' holiday.

BTW, BB, bigot has only one g. Tell me to p*ss off if you like but if you can spell the word there is always a good chance you know who qualifies as one. ;)

[BannsideBoy]

i could tell you to **** off, but frankly being so anal about a typo error just makes me wonder if you need to get out a bit more.;) :p

[lopez]

Iv their iz won ting yoo musht spel roight is dur f*cking insults. And no I don't get out enough...just like the rest of us on this forum.;)

[BannsideBoy]

Speak for yourself

All I will refer to is you significantly higher post count!

[liam88]

Let's not let this get into a flame war lads :)
I mean we've already lost the old "keeping on topic", the thread started off asking people opinions on whether Belfast Celtic should reform ;)

[sylvo]

chill out fella's, if yer gonna argue @ least argue over something like a racehorse, I've been told that's the in thing to row about @ the moment.

[BannsideBoy]

you prove my point even more:rolleyes:

[BannsideBoy]

As for Belfast Celtic reforming, never gonna happen.

Clintonville and Derry city are two proud clubs, why would a Derry fan travel to Belfast for a home game?????. Belfast Celtic are now immortalised, let them keep their legend intact. Even Donegal Celtic reforming isn't an option as it has its own tradition now.

Now let’s see if davros can dissect this in the usual anti-unionist xenophobia that we are accustomed too.

[Duncan Gardner]

Sylvo. Agreed. I love your badge, makes me think of that horse's head scene in the Godfather. Or was it the French Connection?

Liam. Also agreed. Nothing wrong with off-topics, but when they develop into little more than tit-for-that, private email's better. I'm sure my multi-lingual amigo Lopez would concur.

Everyone. Snide references to others' spelling and typography are a bit silly, eh? Particularly when also a hostage to fortune. Shall we agree to decommissioning them?

Bring on the Norse!

[lopez]

BB. Your post ratio of .5 posts per day to my .84 is a better guide than post numbers. Not bad for a NI fan on a RoI site until you see DG's amazing .85 ppd.

DG. I concur.

Sylvo. Do you reckon it was a racehorse that waylaid you last week? Shergar Burgers were all the rage in '83.

Liam & BB: Belfast Celtic reforming would make no sense as Belfast (like Dublin) seems top heavy with teams. But I still think that Donegal Celtic should take the 'Belfast' name and whoever it is holding the rights is being a bit of a dog in the manger type. Donegal Celtic have been around long enough to have a history but the name does suggest that the team plays in Buncrana or Lifford.

[BannsideBoy]

we'll agree on that point then:D

how ever the 'Donegal' in the name does not refer to the county per say, but to the street names around the area of west belfast were donegal celtic play, these were named after the areas that the migrants coming into belfast came from, so continuing their own herritage.

Incidently it was my impression from the fact that a Coleraine fc badge is available as a symbol to the left, that this site is a 'football on this island' site and not exclusively R.o.I., but if you want to hound me off this site for stating my opinions then that is a sad reflection on yourself.

[sylvo]

Come on now lad's chill out.

[sylvo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
[B]Sylvo. Agreed. I love your badge, makes me think of that horse's head scene in the Godfather. Or was it the French Connection?

DG funny enough when they first came up with the badge I thought the very same thing. It was indeed the godfather, it was the scene where Tom Hagen played by Robert Duvall went to hollywood to put a bit of pressure on the director who would'nt give the part in a movie to Vito Corleone's godson and when he said no he woke up with his beloved horse, head only though.
Dg if yer think the badge is cool then you should join me and Lopez in the pilgramige to station road Newbridge or as i call it the stadio via stazionie we're going to plan when the fixture's are published to see Ireland's newest team.
Lopez i don't know what the hell waylaid me, even the docter's were confused, I think it could be a case for Maulder and Scully. But still the docter's done me a favour and signed us off, so i can further my recovery @ lansdowne on wednesday night.:D

[lopez]

Originally posted by BannsideBoy
Incidently it was my impression from the fact that a Coleraine fc badge is available as a symbol to the left, that this site is a 'football on this island' site and not exclusively R.o.I., but if you want to hound me off this site for stating my opinions then that is a sad reflection on yourself.
No, no, no! :rolleyes:

My point is that the site is mainly RoI, not that it doesn't cover the North. And don't start that chip-on-me-shoulder cojones. I'm not trying to hound you off here, just because I've engaged a few Northerners for 1. Publishing a pack of lies on a third rate forum about the FAI (if he said they were a bunch of two-bit morons I might have agreed) . 2. Coming on here and accusing me of reading this paper and that paper and having done this tour and that tour. 3. Calling me a bigot (we'll leave the homosexual slurs alone as I'm always of the opinion that you shouldn't knock what you haven't tried) 4. Calling me a fascist. As my esteemed friend Sylvo says: Chill.:p

[TommyT]

This must be the longst active thread ever. Can we all just agree

Cliftonville are great.

Derry are whinging ****s.

Coleraine are fascists.

Planters out.

That is all.

[BannsideBoy]

Originally posted by TommyT


Coleraine are fascists.

Planters out.

That is all.

i won't take the bait on this one mate:D

[Duncan Gardner]

I like ice cream.

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
I like ice cream.
...and Ruby Murrays. :D

[the 12 th man]

Originally posted by lopez
...and Ruby Murrays. :D


and rubbing the relic and the kissing of the holy ring.

fr ww:D

[brendy_éire]

Originally posted by TommyT
Derry are whinging ****s.

Shouldn't you be busy out begging for somewhere to play next season? :rolleyes:

[lopez]

Originally posted by davros
A tad extreme........about Derry.......!
Tad extreme about Coleraine too! When did Mussolini inspire their fans?:confused:

[liam88]

Come on lads let's keep one of the longest running threads going.........
Up Belfast Celtic :)

[the 12 th man]

Originally posted by liam88
.......
Up Belfast Celtic :)

fr wishy washy replies:
the man above says" blessed are the peacemakers".those that stir the pot can get ready for the elevator to the basement:D

[BannsideBoy]

all this talk about belfast celtic is a fantastical and idealist notion, if it were the case would you rename linfield belfast rangers, i doubt it.

[lopez]

Originally posted by BannsideBoy
all this talk about belfast celtic is a fantastical and idealist notion, if it were the case would you rename linfield belfast rangers, i doubt it.
Would it make any difference? :D