St Pats in player betting allegations

[MariborKev]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/1107/stpatricks.html

Heard this on the radio this morning.

[blue til i die]

just on FM 104:
investigation under way into allegations St Pats players bet on themselves to lose in matches. the games in question are against Cobh and Galway

[blackholesun]

This is a shocking allegation against Pats and the league.

But, if found out to be true I think they should be relegated as punishment. Also any players caught should be given really long bans, at least a season each.

Zero tolerance required by the FAI on this one as the whole credibility of the league is at stake!

bhs

[KBurke]

Ya heard this on radio 1 this morning. Apparently Sadlier met the players last night and is starting an investigation.

Add this to the Boh's court case today and it could prove a very dark day for the league not to mention we could be relegated tonight

[OneRedArmy]

Very difficult to prove (similar rumours about Derry & Sligo last year) but should be a life ban if so.

[Rovers Maniac]

Waste of time unless the Pats players are really stupid and got their brother to put a few thousand on the game.

[Mr A]

Heard these rumours immediately after the game against Cobh. It'll be difficult to prove, but the fact that there's even an investigation would seem to indicate that there's reason for suspicion.

[Mr A]

Waste of time unless the Pats players are really stupid

Dude, we're talking about footballers here!

[Billynomates]

Pretty suspect alright. Is there a rule against players betting on matches? As in betting on their own team to win.

[shep]

I feel sorry for Finn Harps in all this,if they get relegated as a result of thrown matches against two of harps' main rivals its very unfair.

Whether its proven or not it is obvious Pats are incapable of losing 3nil at home to cobh if they were trying.

[Rovers Maniac]

Dude, we're talking about footballers here!

lol :D

[ifk101]

I'd reserve judgement on this.

Who wrote the article in the Irish Daily Mail?

[Mr A]

Quote from RTE (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/1107/stpatricks.html) piece:


The club's Chief Executive, Richard Saddlier, has revealed that he is 'extremly concerned' about the allegations and confirmed that he held a meeting with the players last night in connection with the report.

[RonnieB]

a very dark day for the league not to mention we could be relegated tonight

Well there is always a good point to a day :)

[Macy]

I'd wait until something is proven. I mean Pats were effectively left with nothing to play for, and the games against Galway and Cobh they were playing teams fighting for survival.

Of course the media are loving another chance to have a pop at the league, and the bookies will be loving the chance to welch on winning bets.

[Duggie]

such a farce the league. wouldnt surprise me if it was true though. couldnt believe pats were losing all those games at the time.

[sligored]

I'd wait until something is proven. I mean Pats were effectively left with nothing to play for, and the games against Galway and Cobh they were playing teams fighting for survival.

Of course the media are loving another chance to have a pop at the league, and the bookies will be loving the chance to welch on winning bets.

i backed galway to beat pats . Hope they dont come looking for the money back.

[eelmonster]

It's worth bearing in mind that the Daily Mail are an absolute shower of cúnts; however, should these allegations prove to be true, the players concerned are in serious trouble (Rules 99 & 100 (http://www.fai.ie/pdf/FAI_Rule_Book.pdf)). Unless the entire team and management were involved (unlikely), I can't see any grounds for sanctions against the club.

[Mr A]

I'd wait until something is proven. I mean Pats were effectively left with nothing to play for, and the games against Galway and Cobh they were playing teams fighting for survival.

Technically Pats could still win the league when they played against Cobh, even if effectively it was over.

[passinginterest]

Here's the Irish Times take on it:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/1107/1225925540806.html
It's free these days.

It's poor form if players are backing against themselves, although we've all heard of it happening in the past. The games that were supposed to be affected last year were fairly meaningless whereas the games concerned here could have a major impact on the relegation battle.

It's depressing that yet another scandal has hit the league. On the plus side the media coverage is through the roof!

[OneRedArmy]

If Bohs win the Cup & Pats finish 2nd they'd go straight into 2nd QR Europa Cup (& get the money for 1st round in addition). There should be motivation there.

[redgav]

could it be that johnny slaphead is trying to save his job.

[Dodge]

I'd wait until something is proven. I mean Pats were effectively left with nothing to play for, and the games against Galway and Cobh they were playing teams fighting for survival.

Of course the media are loving another chance to have a pop at the league, and the bookies will be loving the chance to welch on winning bets.

Spot on Macy. The meeting was only called on the back of newspaper reports. Here's the sadlier quotes above in more context

"I called them in because I didn't want them just waking up to something like that," he said. "I had the meeting to make them aware of it."

"I would assume and hope that they are, but we can't just ignore something like that, we'll look into it as much as we can.

"I'm disappointed, though, that our club is going to be written about in this context and disappointed, too, that players I presume to be innocent until some evidence to the contrary is uncovered might end up having some sort of cloud hanging over them."


---

Lazy journos acting on PP's statement about Longford/Monaghan and looking at this forum.

Pats have been ****e for months now. Nothing to do with gambling. Just some rubbish players, some not giving a ********, and a manager who's lost it.

Oh and I backed Cobh and Galway in those games. Couldn't see how we'd care enough

[Sheridan]

Based on the provenance of the report, I wouldn't be jumping to any conclusions. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole idea germinated in some tabloid cretin's head as a result of threads on this very forum. As for Sadlier being "extremely concerned" - well, who wouldn't be? Doesn't mean he thinks there's any truth in it.

[Sheridan]

Yeah, what Dodge said. Full quote makes it a lot clearer.

[ifk101]

So who are Pats betting on tonight? :D

[randomcomment]

This happens a lot more than you would think. Look at it this way:

I play for say..... Athlone...

I haven't been paid in 5 weeks

I have, a wife, a kid, a mortgage

I work 9-5 in an office and make modest money

We are playing say........ Kildare

They are guaranteed to finish bottom and we are guaranteed to be 2nd from bottom

None of the 22 players make much money from football

Nothing to play for

Get a mate to stick a grand on us to lose

double my money

Pay my mortgage

No-one's the wiser..............



I'm not condoning this but it's just a view into the mindset of a player




I'm not a player by the way, that's a fictional scenario!!!:D:cool:

[Sheridan]

Yeah, you actually work 9 to 5.30.

[DRDoc]

who wrote the daily mail piece??

[Sam_Heggy]

who wrote the daily mail piece??

Dave Rogers

[finnpark]

Pats had a reserve side out against Galway, they played 2 days previous and they had nothing to play for. Also, Galway had a very good record against St Pats.

I don't think they lost on purpose.

[gspain]

One of the reasons the papers write this things about the FAI and the clubs is because they can and never get sued.

If this is without foundation (and I dearly hope it is) then the club should sue.

[Danny]

plus galway were 4/1
anyone who didnt back them is a mug.
*hopefully* just bookies realising how thick they are when it comes to eL odds and giving out a nothign story which the mail picked up on.

btw - 8/1 tonight for the 0-0 with ucd. put the mortgage on it.

[Duggie]

This happens a lot more than you would think. Look at it this way:

I play for say..... Athlone...

I haven't been paid in 5 weeks

I have, a wife, a kid, a mortgage

I work 9-5 in an office and make modest money

We are playing say........ Kildare

They are guaranteed to finish bottom and we are guaranteed to be 2nd from bottom

None of the 22 players make much money from football

Nothing to play for

Get a mate to stick a grand on us to lose

double my money

Pay my mortgage

No-one's the wiser..............



I'm not condoning this but it's just a view into the mindset of a player




I'm not a player by the way, that's a fictional scenario!!!:D:cool:

wouldnt the whole team need to be in on it tho. unless your the goalie and have an "off" night.

[Dodge]

For the record here's the teams in questions

V Cobh
ST PATRICKS ATHLETIC: Barry Ryan (Friesz, half-time); O'Cearuill (Bialek, 69 mins), Harris, Gavin, Rogers; Brennan, Fahey, Dempsey, Kirby; Guy, G Fitzpatrick (S Fitzpatrick, 65 mins)

V Galway
St Patrick's Athletic : Friesz; Haverty, Gavin, Partridge, O'Cearuill; O'Brien (Harris, 75 mins.), Brennan, Bialek, Byrne (Fahey, 62 mins.); G. Fitzpatrick, S. Fitzpatrick (Guy, 66 mins.).

As you can see, nothing like first choice teams. Injuries, suspensions and big games v hertha and Bohs meant a lot of regulars missing

[harps1954]

Below from www.fai.ie

The Football Association of Ireland today confirmed that it will carry out an investigation into suspected irregular betting patterns around recent St Patrick’s Athletic FC fixtures. The FAI has this morning written to St Patrick’s Athletic and a number of bookmakers asking that they share any information they might have to substantiate the suspicions raised by the club. The FAI welcomes St Patrick’s Athletic FC’s decision to raise this matter with players and will ensure that a thorough investigation is carried out to determine if there is any substance to these claims.

[finnpark]

For the record here's the teams in questions

V Cobh
ST PATRICKS ATHLETIC: Barry Ryan (Friesz, half-time); O'Cearuill (Bialek, 69 mins), Harris, Gavin, Rogers; Brennan, Fahey, Dempsey, Kirby; Guy, G Fitzpatrick (S Fitzpatrick, 65 mins)

V Galway
St Patrick's Athletic : Friesz; Haverty, Gavin, Partridge, O'Cearuill; O'Brien (Harris, 75 mins.), Brennan, Bialek, Byrne (Fahey, 62 mins.); G. Fitzpatrick, S. Fitzpatrick (Guy, 66 mins.).

As you can see, nothing like first choice teams. Injuries, suspensions and big games v hertha and Bohs meant a lot of regulars missing

And add to that the Pats palyers had 1 days rest against Galway.

[passinginterest]

RULE 99. MANIPULATING MATCH RESULTS
Anyone who conspires to influence the result of a match in a manner incompatible with sporting ethics shall be sanctioned with a suspension and a fine. The disciplinary body may also impose a ban on taking part in any football-related activity; in serious cases this sanction shall apply for life.

RULE 100. BETTING/GAMBLING
Anyone who directly or indirectly bets, instructs someone to bet on their behalf, provides others with confidential information or enables another person to bet for that participants own benefit on a result, conduct or progress of a match or competition in which that person is participating or has control over the result, conduct or progress of a match or competition shall be subject to disciplinary sanctions.

There's the two relevant rules from the FAI rule book. If the any players allegedly involved were not in the match day squad it might be argued that they were not participating and had no control over the result. The only thing they might have done wrong would be acting on "confidential information" (the team selection) and it might be debatable as to how confidential that is.

[randomcomment]

Just 3 lads can change a result!!

[finnpark]

btw - 8/1 tonight for the 0-0 with ucd. put the mortgage on it.

I don't have a mortage, should I still abck it? :confused:

[pete]

Going to be difficult to prove this but the St Pats name has already been tarnished. If the media can't prove this can Pats sue?

IMO the Ramblers recent was the most surprising. Pats didn't exactly have youth team players on that side.

Whatever about fixing matches if I was a Pats fan I would be very disappointed by the unprofessional performances by their players. They may not be able to win the league but they still get paid & especially should be performing at home.

[Schumi]

For the record here's the teams in questions

V Cobh
ST PATRICKS ATHLETIC: Barry Ryan (Friesz, half-time); O'Cearuill (Bialek, 69 mins), Harris, Gavin, Rogers; Brennan, Fahey, Dempsey, Kirby; Guy, G Fitzpatrick (S Fitzpatrick, 65 mins)

V Galway
St Patrick's Athletic : Friesz; Haverty, Gavin, Partridge, O'Cearuill; O'Brien (Harris, 75 mins.), Brennan, Bialek, Byrne (Fahey, 62 mins.); G. Fitzpatrick, S. Fitzpatrick (Guy, 66 mins.).Starting Glen Fitzpatrick in both games? It must have been Johnny McDonnell who had the money on!


btw - 8/1 tonight for the 0-0 with ucd. put the mortgage on it.Agreed, Pats couldn't throw a game against us, no matter how hard they tried.

[EalingGreen]

Don't know anything about the games/players in question, but do know a wee bit about betting. Basically there are two types of scam.

The first is where a connected person has inside information which indicates a certain result and so backs its.
Obvious examples where Team A has injury problems, rows in the dressing room, a manager who's "lost it", or a deliberately weakend team is to be picked e.g to save the players for a more important game.
Their opponents, Team B, might not be up to much, but if they are giving 100% against weakened/non-trying opposition, then they (Team B) will have attract generous odds to win. And crucially, if the connected person is in a position to influence the result further i.e. is a player or manager of Team A, so much the better.

But that is not quite the same as a fixed result i.e. where Team A should beat Team B comfortably, and so match fixers arrange for Team A to lose. In such circumstances, it is actually very rare for the players to be the key - whether bribed to throw the game, or betting on themselves to do so.
This is because you can't rely on two or three players to produce an upset, e.g. giving away or missing penalties, or a keeper letting in soft goals etc, because if their teammates are giving 100%, then the activities of the dodgy players will be so blatant as to attract attention. Moreover, they can't guarantee they won't be subbed if they are playing badly, or sent off if fouling etc.
And bribing several players from a team might cost more than you win, as well as greatly increasing the chances of it leaking out, or one of the players approached reporting it to the authorities.
In which case, the key to match fixing is actually to get to the Referee - as has been seen even in the big leagues, such as Germany and Italy - or conceivably Team A's keeper.

But even then, fixing a match result (W, L or D) to upset the odds is too crude these days. It is much easier to arrange, and less likely to be noticed, a spread bet on the score.
For example, Team A is rated to beat Team B by 2.5 goals (effectively three). You will get decent odds on Team A only to win by 1.5 or less (effectively by a single goal, or even draw or lose). Therefore, if you can get to the Referee/Keeper - then you greatly enhance your chances.
So that if e.g. Team A goes ahead after 30 mins, the Ref/keeper doesn't need to cheat. If Team A then get a second goal, the Ref/Keeper still only has to award/concede a penalty, the score is now 2-1 and the bet is a winner again.
If that's how the match finishes, then nobody really notices - Team A just made harder work of it than normal.
Of course, if Team A gets a late 3rd goal, then the Ref/Keeper has to work extra hard to concede a second goal, but even if he does, people will just put it down to an "off-day" i.e. their suspicions won't be aroused, since Team A still won 3-2.
Of course, if Team A has a blinder and score half a dozen unstoppable goals, then the Ref or Keeper just accepts he cannot be seen to "throw" five dodgy decisions/own goals etc and the bet loses.
The fixers behind it know you can't win them all, but there'll always be another game and another opportunity.

Anyhow, from the speculation so far, if there is anything in the rumours, it is almost certainly an example of the first type of scam (imo).

(Still stinks, mind, with anyone caught and proven deserving a life ban from the game imo)

[JC_GUFC]

The different reaction to this thread and the Monaghan v Longford thread is astonishing!

A bookmaker reported seeing substantial amounts of money being wagered on a "nothing" First Division game and reported this but is accused of just whinging but some journo seems to make up a story with no hard facts behind it that Pat's players were betting on themselves to lose and everyone is up in arms!

As Dodge pointed out Pat's had weakened teams out for the matches in question, particularly against Galway, so there would be nothing irregular at all about bets being taken opposing them in games where the opposition was battling to save themselves from the drop and some people knowing that they'd be missing players.

[Dodge]

The different reaction to this thread and the Monaghan v Longford thread is astonishing!

Some of us are consistent.

others are doing the usual dramaqueen stuff

[adamd164]

If this is true, then they're a disgrace to their club and to the fans who pay good money to watch them.

Hopefully not, because it'd be another major embarrassment for the league.

[TheSaint2002]

Hopefully not, because it'd be another major embarrassment for the league

Fact : this league cannot get any more embarrassing.

This seasons woes would break even the hardest LOI fan.:(

[charliesboots]

Going to be difficult to prove this but the St Pats name has already been tarnished. If the media can't prove this can Pats sue?

IMO the Ramblers recent was the most surprising. Pats didn't exactly have youth team players on that side.

Whatever about fixing matches if I was a Pats fan I would be very disappointed by the unprofessional performances by their players. They may not be able to win the league but they still get paid & especially should be performing at home.

Pats couldn't sue - there would have to be a mistruth to do that.

all they reported was the meeting, the reason for the meeting and the rumours.

[Dodge]

No, the mail said that there were two players involved. Even mentioned the games.

[bellavistaman]

All i can say is dont judge either rams or galway. All we did was the same team we do every week, try to win.

Saying that though we had to play against fahey galway didnt.

WEll everyone by the way Lim Till I Die was right FIX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!